These are the ones I try to catch every week. Though I don't always have time to watch everything from Dusty Wheel and Maidens, they do some long streams.

Content from Readers:

The Dusty Wheel

Maidens of the Spear

Daniel Green

Content from Non-readers:

Everyday Negroes

Tread R&R

Matthewvhaynes

24 minutes ago, sidcarton2 said:

I get that the show is an adaptation, but someone of these things just don't make sense in the context of the WoT world. 

 

This is one those things that is quite odd but fits with the earlier corner that the writers painted themselves into when they had Nynaeve talk about how the Aes Sedai rejected her mentor because of her peasant clothes. As if the Aes Sedai, who we've been told are dwindling in numbers for a long time, wouldn't have jumped at the chance to snatch up and put someone that could channel into Novice white when they literally showed up on their front door and begged to join? 

Probably she wasn't rejected because she was a peasant, that's just what she told Nynaeve. Suian obviously wan't rejected and she can't have been in a very good state after poling a tiny boat thousands of miles up the river.

28 minutes ago, sidcarton2 said:

As for Nynaeve, regardless of anything else, the Aes Sedai were not going to let a powerful wilder who clearly can't control her channeling wander around untutored and untrained. It was clear at least from the books that the Aes Sedai tried their best to make sure such women at least had the ability to control their power so they didn't kill themselves or anyone else through ignorance, even if they were put out of the Tower later and never made Aes Sedai. 

Going by book lore a 25 year old has already survived the channeling sickness and generally knows enough not to be a danger. It's repeated ad nauseam that woman this old are not admitted as novices. It's stupid, but that's what RJ wrote. Of course we know when they found such a woman that was as strong as Nynaeve they decided to break custom and let her join as Accepted. Her potential was simply too great to let go.

As for the show, it doesn't seem like they have a similar age restriction and the intention certainly seems to be to enroll Nynaeve as a Novice. Why they were delaying we don't know, but they probably weren't expecting Moiraine to make off with her quite so quickly.

5 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Moiraine's conversation with Egwene makes no sense unless she (Moiraine) is aware that Egwene has been apprenticed by Nynaeve and is therefore learning how to 'listen to the wind', which means that she must likewise know that Nynaeve can 'listen to the wind' also, particularly since it is from Nynaeve that she learns that 'listening to the wind' is in fact Channelling in the first place.

This is why I said it's reasonable to assume she does know. But I think the conversation makes sense self contained. Moiraine asked Egwene what they call it when woman can predict the weather. Egwene responds with "they listen to the wind". Moiraine then goes on the tell Egwene that it's actually the One Power. After they establish Egwene can channel Moiraine tells her she doesn't listen to the wind, the wind listen's to her. It can be in reference to their earlier conversation. She doesn't need to know Egwene is learning from Nynaeve.

27 minutes ago, Kazhvar said:

Am I wrong in This? U have a reference for that?

See JenniferL's link above. If you want an in book reference.

The Shadow Rising - Chapter 26 - The Dedicated

Quote

If Charn had to make up stories, Coumin wished he could say he had served Lews Therin, the great leader himself. Of course, everyone would ask why he was not serving the Dragon now, but that would be better than the way things were.

This is in the way back ter'angreal at the time news was first spreading that Lews Therin had sealed the Dark One away. Lews was already known as the Dragon and they didn't yet know about the taint.

4 minutes ago, Kazhvar said:

Because before Saidin was corrupted there was no dragon. As sedai both male and female fought together. The dragon was created from the corruption of saidin and therefore can only be found IN the corruption

Huh? Lews Therin Telamon was named Dragon long before Saidin was tainted.

1 hour ago, Agitel said:

The first oath doesn't mean an Aes Sedai will keep her oath. It just requires that the Aes Sedai truly mean the oath at the time she makes it. She can't intend at that time to be duplicitous. But she can later have a change of heart and renege.

I could be remembering it wrong but I didn't think the Aes Sedai that swore to Rand were able to go against their oath's even though they wanted to. I'm sure there was some passage where they were trying to work out exactly how far they could push the oath, that there was some wriggle room, but that they were actually bound to core of it.

2 hours ago, Ralph said:

6) Therefore I believe listening to the wind is a skill that is dependent on the ability to Channel, but is not Channeling. Or, "Channeling" means consciously focusing the One Power in weaves, and listening to the wind is not this. 

This is also consistent with the fact that we didn't see any wisps of the Power on the bridge. (though I admit I haven't found clear consistency in when it is visible and when not. Maybe after re watching I will.) 

Right, Listening to the Wind is a Talent, like Foretelling, in fact you could even argue Listening to the Wind is a type of Foretelling. These Talent's only seem to manifest in Channelers, so it can be theorised they are of the One Power. But a person doesn't need to actively channel to use the talent. Nynaeve often has the sense a storm is coming while not actively Channeling is the books.

Also, we don't actually know Moiraine is aware Nynaeve can listen to the wind. It's reasonable to assume she does, but all we actually know is that Nynaeve tells Moiraine the previous Wisdom could, but doesn't say whether she can or not.

Late again, sigh.

Thought it was a good episode, but the way some of it's been executed and the decisions they've made are stopping me from calling it one of the best.

The cold open was really nice, loved the glimpse of the Stone in the background. Don't really understand why Suian's dad wouldn't have gone with her though.

Logain bit in the hall was great. The next bit, while dramatic and well acted wasn't really that well thought out. There are so many ways Suian and Moiraine could have danced their way out of that, I get that they needed to setup a way for Moiraine to get penance, but it didn't work that well for me.

The Mat healing scene was great, interested to see how the rest of the dagger arc plays out.

I'm onboard with the Suian/Moiraine relationship. My thinking is the little paintings are dreamshard ter'angreal. I don't think they are getting access to tel'aran'rhiod proper or they are physically travelling anywhere.

I think that Suian is a dreamer, otherwise why would they put so much trust in them. I also think that Ishy has been messing with them though. Odd that people (Moiraine at least) think the Dark One's prison is at the Eye, I'm hoping this is a case of characters being wrong, rather than an actual change to Shayol Ghul.

I loved the Oath Rod scene, but hated that they used the actual Oath Rod. For a start, because of the 1st oath an Aes Sedai's oaths are already binding to a degree. We know that from the oaths made to Rand at Dumai's Wells. So using the rod wasn't really necessary. Also it's a very big departure from how it's used in the books, so they are going to need a very big future pay off to convince me it was a good idea.

Didn't love that the Way Gate was opened with the One Power. I assume Loial's there because they need him to navigate. So were the Ways still created for Ogier and if so how do they open them? How are the fades and Trolloc's using them? I'm sure there are answers to all these questions planned already, but I think it would have been simpler to just have Loial open the gate. Also would have given non-readers a better understanding why he's there.

And then we come to Mat, not really much to say. This is obviously because Barney couldn't make it back for E7&8 and they couldn't or chose not to re-cast for these episodes. The scene was very awkward, but I can't really blame the show. They had to make the edit with the Barney shots they had and they did about as well as could be expected I think.

Nope, it's gone again. Oh well.

On a positive note Al'Naito is thoroughly embedded in my brain. And I sing the Manetheren song all the time. This show definitely has great music.

Very interesting conversation. 

My favourite line paraphrased:

"Enjoy it for what it is, don't hate it for what it isn't."

That's how I've been approaching it and I'm having a great time.

Also, based on what he said about Liandrin, I definitely think she's actually Elaida in this telling. Which makes me wonder who's going to be our first black sister. 

8 minutes ago, Hobo said:

Yea thats what i thought. Apparently doggo spit works better than Aes Sedai magicks, Clears up that trolloc poison without a hitch.

I think his wound was a bite or scratch, so not necessarily poisoned. But yeah, was a bit weird and guess it was just there to give Perrin a friendly moment with the wolf.

1 hour ago, Ajimbura said:

I don't think people compare WOT to GOT based on the stories they portray or the content.

But the treatment the content receives.

The same with comparing with LOTR.

I think both LOTR and GOT (as long as content was available) received a very good compromise between what you can do and what the books tells.

Different medium and all that.

 

With WOT I don't understand a single choice they have made to tell the story.

Not the changes in the characters and their backstory, the changes in how e.g. Lan and Morraine operate and so forth. I don't understand who came up with the brilliant idea to push "the message" into a series set in a medieval-ish time. To add to injury it's poorly done and isn't even needed.

 

Have seen posts like, but this is the interpretation that XYZ did.

To which I would say that the interpretation is crap.

Just like someone would interpret a Beethoven symphony and replacing the strings with kazoos, it might sound like a Beethoven symphony somewhere but it would still sound like shite.

 

Did I expect perfection, of course not, I did however expect the writers to be at least competent.

 

Yes someone will say that they would like to hear a symphony with kazoos, I doubt most would except for the meme.

 

I'm sure it's a bad idea to ask this, but what is "the message"?

err, no, no I can't. Sadly the tune that came into my head when I read that was GOT. 

I just went and listened to it, cause it was bothering me, considering the amount of times I would have heard it in the last few weeks. They haven't really gone for a catchy, memorable melody like GOT did. It's more thematic and blends with the visuals to give a full experience, but not really the sort of thing that would stick in my head.

EDIT: Ok so I just caught myself whistling the theme song after watching the intro a couple of hours ago because of this thread. Maybe it's catchier than I thought.

3 hours ago, GanoesParan said:

Like you, I also would like to see Bayle Domon, Elaida, and Morgase. I'm sure that all of us here on Dragonmount have a wide variety of tertiary, or even secondary, characters from the books that won't make the cut to be included into this onscreen adaptation. The book series is simply too long, and too massive. Minor characters are going to have to be either dropped completely or blended together with other minor characters. I believe that we could see Liandrin and Elaida blended together into one character. I believe that Queen Morgase will appear in season 2 or 3, but I doubt that she will survive Rahvin's takeover of her kingdom after she realizes that she has been under compulsion. 

One of my favorite minor characters is Bayle Domon. I sincerely hope that Rafe has plans for my favorite smuggler that includes him being on screen in the following seasons for at least an episode or two. 

Yep, of those three Bayle is definitely my favourite, but also probably the least important for the story. Other than loosely tying a few of the major arcs together he really does nothing other then adding a bit a flavour.

3 hours ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Where is Bayle Domon, Elaida and Morgase not to mention other characters that wander through the books with significant roles.  Its not that that they can't get to those plot lines it is just that they have to make up new plot lines to connect to book ones ones or else the Amazon wheel is weaving a completely new pattern.

 

I think some of my carping is being misinterpreted.  I am trying very hard to judge this show on its own merits as a standalone fantasy creation.  That's why I am currently at like.  I don't like the show as an adaptation.  In my opinion it is a "based on" judging from E4&E5.  However Amazon is still weaving the pattern of the show and it is far too early to make any final judgements.  Rafe and his thread spinners are no doubt doing the best they can with what they have.

 

Everybody here can be a critic and it is fun do that.  However, none of us are actually charged with the duty to create a great WOT show that will take the world by storm.   IMHO this story even if it continues down it's current path will still be far better than GOT.  I couldn't even make it through season one of GOT my sister and i were watching it.  We decided to stop.  We called it Dark Ages West Wing.

 

 For me, forged as I was, in the fires of Mount Doom.  Is that the thing that binds all great fantasy together is some version of the hero's journey.  It should contain the elements of growing into full potential and reaching beyond perceived limitations to do so.  It should contain a noble purpose and it should contain metaphysics not of this world.  How about The Odyssey?  At any rate WOT has multiple hero's and follows their becoming, struggles and deeds.  It matters not to RJ whether you are man, woman, or wolf.  You can be a hero and stand against the forces of lies, lust for the flesh and power and love of causing pain and suffering.  We are gonna stuff all that sh*! back in it's prison.  That is our duty as human beings and we all need to learn how to do it.    Nuf said.

Yeah I get that. Most people seem to be more concerned with what is missing rather than what's changed. It's difficult knowing the story, knowing what they've cut and then trying work out how or if they're going to work it back in. Especially if it's one of your favourite characters or sub plots.

I think we need to prepare ourselves for what's coming. I believe what we've seen is just the tip of the ice berg in terms of cuts, changes and consolidations they're going to need to make to fit this thing into 8 seasons and have a cohesive story. 

46 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

 

Focused on the production quality and cinematography

Have seen this video posted in about 3 different places now. Finally got a chance to watch it.

The first half of the video that was more technical focused was really interesting. Her analysis of the lighting especially, it's not really something I would usually notice. All really valid criticism I think.

The rest of the video she was mainly focused on plot elements she didn't like or thought there were issues with. Most of these have been brought up here at some stage or another and not things I thought were problems.

22 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Literally could not care less. The only things which can validate an adaptation are word of god or adherence to the original. 

 

The first is impossible, so much as many people would like to think that Harriet counts. Sorry, but to paraphrase an American hero, "If she had written Wheel of Time, she would have written Wheel of Time." She is no more authoritative than Brandon Sanderson. 

 

That leaves fidelity and... well... we all know how that's turning out. 

Nothing can validate or invalidate an adaptation. It is what it is, and will be liked, or not by each individual that watches it. If RJ were alive and backed this adaptation as it is, would that make you like it?

4 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

 

 

What I want to know is what the flaming hell Rand and Mat are doing east bank of the river. Have they had a jaunt to Cairhien?

5 minutes ago, AdamA said:

I'm not going to defend the approach, but the writers do say exactly what the person you're responding to said in the behind the scenes extras for episode one. They wanted to deemphasize Rand's POV and treat every character equally. Agree or not, the rationale they gave was that Jordan shifted in future books to deemphasize Rand's POV and treat other characters equally, and they felt that made the rest of the books tonally dissonant with Eye of the World, and they wanted to avoid that.

 

This is obviously a fan site, so consists only of people who liked the books, but I will note I didn't decide to read them until around 2010 or so and did notice a lot of the reviews I saw on Amazon mentioned things about the main character seeming to disappear for entire books and they lost interest. So it clearly didn't work for everyone.

Starting with the ensemble was a good choice IMO. Following the book POVs just wouldn't work for TV.

Imagine the conversation with Josha when they get to season 3. "Yes Josha, I know you're the star of the show and everyone loves you. But we've gotta stick to the books, you've only got 3 episodes this season."

10 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Why do you make the bolded statement?  Please provide your rationale.  I don't see why they have to do it in the show.  The book approach hooked me into the story well enough.  If Rand POV worked in the book it should work in the TV series.  The only reason I can think of that they did this was the obvious one that they want to mask who the DR is.  S1 using Moraine POV was a good way to mask it but then they decided she needed to be wounded in the battle and spend a bunch of screen time wounded.  I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when the show plot was being blocked out.  I am sure there were reasons for every change.  money, Amazon shopkeeper and IT executive interference,  time, etc.   

 

All I can say is decisions have consequences and when I get tired of thinking about the show I can go back to the books.  Starting TFH  now.  I probably should have waited until the season was over, instead of starting before it started.  It only sharpens my dissonance and I find myself wondering how/if they are going to get to a particular place in the later books from where they are wandering in Randland V2.

By Ep7 everyone will be back to together and they'll be hitting The Ways on their way to Fal Dara and then The Eye. What exactly have they missed that makes you think they won't be able to get to future plot lines?

21 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

And deliberate choices can be wrong, so I'm not sure I'm understanding your point.

 

And what does or doesn't matter all depends on perspective.

My point is Rafe didn't misunderstand who Loial was or what he looks like in the books. He made a deliberate choice to present him differently due to the limitations of a visual medium. Whether the choice was right or wrong is subjective. If he thought the boys were 17 or 18 in the books and made choices based on that, then his original understanding of the books was wrong.

32 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

I don't know if it's fanfiction but it is certainly no adaptation of the books.

 

Brandon Sanderson said " It’s not an adaptation of the books for me; it’s an adaptation of THE NEXT time these people experience this story."

It obviously is an adaptation of the books, or Amazon would be getting their pants sued off.

Your Brandon quote is taken wildly out of context. It's an in world device he's using (for himself) to explain the changes they've decided on to make the story work for TV.

7 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Wouldn't be the only thing Rafe was wrong about.  How about a short ogier that looks like a muppet?  Too bad too, from what I'm reading the actor nailed Loial from his side of things.

Not really sure how you equate those two things. Loial wasn't Rafe being wrong, he was a deliberate choice. Being able to have Loial in all the scenes they want him, instead of limiting him because he's too expensive was absolutely the right decision IMO. He looks a lot better in the show than in the leaked still pictures, and yes, they absolutely nailed his character. He was a joy to watch. Whether he's "head and shoulders" or just "a head" taller than Rand really doesn't matter.

7 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

It should be intuitively obvious what they're doing.

Indeed, to the most casual observer.

1 minute ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

Yeah... Any of those things could be the case. I'm just saying that in Ep 1's bonus content he says they intentionally aged up the characters and he even specifically mentions not wanting to have 17,18 yr old actors

If he thought the boys were 17 or 18 in the books then he was wrong and has only aged them up to the age they already were, which would be pretty funny.