One final thing.

You're feelings are valid, even if others disagree with them.

Our feelings are also valid, even if you disagree with them.

What's not acceptable is calling other users liars and bigots over two years old season 2 speculation... 

31 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

And lying to people and telling them the show is gonna stop taking the men's moments to shine is what exactly? 

What are we lying about? 

Did I write the show?

Did I direct the show?

What you read are thoughts and opinions, and speculation about future seasons.

Maybe you need to take a deeper look inside and ask yourself "why does 'taking away men's moment to shine' bother me so much?"

31 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

You actively shutdown haters after last season telling us to breathe and calm down and it would get better. And it didn't. So what's you're excuse this time?

1) Season 2 was objectively better then 1st season. You may not believe, but opinions are subjective.
2) We are not Amazon. We are not Rafe. We are not the show creators.

31 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

Or are you going to finally admit what's obvious to thosd of us who were upset during season 1?

Admit what? That you don't understand what an adaptation is?

31 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

The showrunners are rampant misandrists doing everything thry can to girl power this show and don't give a crap about the source?

I really think you need to examine why "girl power" is your go to excuse for why the show is "crapping on the source material", how you believe that means the show runners are "misandrists", and really examine what the "theme" of the novels are.

Here's a hint. The books are about the Balance.

Balance between genders. Balance in the world.

The Dark One and his Chosen have sown seeds through out the world to bring the world out of balance.

30 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

Must be easy to just tell those upset to shut up, just like last time. Tell you what. If the next two seasons show the guys getting time to shine and moments TAKEN FROM THE GIRLS AND GIVEN TO THE GUYS, I'll apologize. But we both know that's not going to happen.

It's a TV SHOW. If you don't like it. Turn the channel.
Why devote your life to making others miserable?
Am I your psychologist? Therapist?

There's an entire world outside full of new experiences waiting to happen and all you have to do is open that door. You could crack open a new book instead of pounding on that keyboard trollin' the forums about how awful we all are for liking the show.

Like I said. Life is to damn short, to waste it online yelling into the void about how awful a TV show is when we both know that Rafe and Amazon will never read your comments, let alone mine.

Our names, memories, thoughts, opinions, none of it will likely never be a sprinkle of dust in their life and as far as anyone in any part of that entire production is concerned we are less then a thought. We don't exist. 
 

14 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

We tried reasonable season 1. We were told season 2 wouldn't steal from the guys and screw them over. Care to explain why you think this is okay? Care to sxplain why those who are unhappy are continued to be told to shut up and pound sand whole you all get to hate us as much as you want?

 

You say don't use mean words but yall are thw ones who threaten everyone who disagree with bans. Seems awfully fishy that only people who LIKE THIS SHOW are on the mod team. Seems like there is zero respect for the source from the mods team at all. Adios. I'm out. Yall can have you're echo chamber. You baited me with season 1 and 2. No more.

Good luck, and thanks for all the fish.
 

11 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

The chapter icon is just an early French horn without valves.

 

 

Yeah no. That chapter icon isn't just a "french horn". There's more going on then a "french horn" without valves".

Here's the chapter icon next to that image as a comparison.

And then to make the obvious point since it's not obvious.

2 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Unless there is an opening on the side, it wouldn’t sound.  It would be like blowing into a milk jug.  Perhaps Mat is a flautist and is expertly blowing across the mouthpiece?

... we've covered this. There's even a picture that shows it.
Here... I'll point it out to ya...

Just now, Cauthonfan4 said:

I haven't posted here in ages, if anyone needs to touch grass and reality, it's the bigots like you gleefully defending garbage that hates the source.

Yes... Because coming to the forums and calling users bigots is a great way to have a meaningful discussion.

Seriously. Go outside. Touch some grass. Take a breather. Touch some grass. Life's to god damn short to get this upset over a tv show.

3 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

I remember back during season 1 the book fans who didn't like the show were told to calm down, that the girl power ups at the expense of males would slow down and male characters, especially Rand, would get more time to shine, especially at falme

 

You can start apologizing now. Season 2. Falme in the bag. Rand screwed again.

 

I gave your garbage show a chance, yall lied to me and as far as I'm concerned every defender of this show is a liar who hates the books.

 

Rafe, as far as I'm concerned is a rampant misandrist and rafe of time can die in a fire.

Go outside and touch some grass?

29 minutes ago, EmreY said:

For extra magic, everyone coming out of the fog could have one too.  They could then proceed to blow away all enemies.

 

 

 

 

Oddly Relevant? 

49 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Klein bottle cannot be a horn, though, as there is only one opening.  A horn has to have 2.

45 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

There are 10 openings on the picture you posted.

 

There are "openings" on the "outside" of the horn.
The Horn of Valere isn't just a "horn", it is an Artifact from another age.

In the books it's described as looking like an "Ordinary golden horn".

Then we have the chapter icon.

That's not an "ordinary horn". It's similar to the wheel/serpent. It's not quiet a mobius strip, but the geometry of it doesn't make sense. 

That's why I like what's shown in the episode. It's attempting to show some of these strange other worldly objects that the books describe as "not making sense" and "your eyes slip slip away..."

I think had they made the Horn of Valere this:

It would have lost it's visual magic on screen.

22 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Are we at least all in agreement that the Watering Can of Valere is up there with Damane pacifiers as one of the worst props of the show?

I actually enjoyed the look of the Horn of Valere in the show.
It looked totally alien, like it came from an Age before the Age of Legends.

Also, I like this interpretation of what the horn's supposed to be.

26 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

That's a good question, but my gut is that I doubt they would sway me.  I'm trying to think of an similar situation.  maybe with Breaking Bad?  I hated it.  Not sure why.  Everyone around me loved it, though.

 

My issues stem from how great I think the books are and how important they are to me (I still remember reading AMoL in the hospital after my first son was born and we had to stay for a week).  I personally see this show as spitting in the eye of Jordan's work and his fans.  I get that not everyone feels like that and there is subjectivity that will not be overcome.  The show would have to do quite a lot to redeem itself from that feeling on mine, though, and I don't see this team accomplishing it.  Given that that is how I feel, I can't see that my opinion would change if those around me enjoyed it, the one exception being if it became a go-to show for my wife and I because I love when we share experiences.  But that one is certainly not going to happen, lol.

May I recommend watching 1998's Merlin?

Then remember that RJ wanted the people who made that show, to make a WoT Adaptation.

27 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

This is an incorrect statement.

1 hour ago, DigificWriter said:

 

This is an incorrect statement.

5 minutes ago, fearbrog said:

You can't put collar without harmful  premeditation. Moment Egwene began damane training it was demonstrated to her a-dam is enslavement device nothing more, nothing less. She lived with idea that collar restricts her and suppresses her will. That's why she can't put on a-dam by herself, cause act of restriction or suppression is harmful in it self.

Yes she can. 
The show made no restriction to a Damane touching another A'dam collar. Only a restriction to touching their own.

Putting a collar on another isn't "physically" harming" or an "act of violence" on the "sul'dam" like Egwene imagining using the water jug to bash Renna's head in.

It's all about the mental premeditation game of intent.

Putting the collar on is no more an act of violence then putting a necklace on Renna.

5 minutes ago, fearbrog said:

Only way she can justify putting collar on her master is by denying it's purpose, but for that she would need to deny herself agency and sell herself on the idea that suppression comes not from collar, but from herself. However if she denies herself agency, she doesn't need to put collar on her master. If i'm not wrong it's called catch-22.

This is the same way lies and the 3 oaths work.
 
It's not a lie if someone believes something to be true.

2 minutes ago, Samt said:

Living in the middle is a weird psycho vibe that I don't think Egwene really has in the books

Putting the Collar on with no premeditated thoughts of harming her is 100% possible without being a "psycho".

The "leaving her to hang" part, could be the a'dam's loop hole of the Damane being unable to "lift a hand" against the Sul'dam.. She didn't lift a hand, she used her mind. She can "think" harm against her Sul'dam.

Which as we saw, she she did plenty of times in her cell when she fantasized about beating Renna's skull in with her fists.
 

3 minutes ago, Samt said:

So Egwene didn't have a plan and just lives in the moment and killed Renna in a fit of passion?  Because otherwise, that's premeditation.  

Yep.
Because the a'dam literally doesn't let you do anything if it's premeditated. That was covered when Egwene fantasized about beating Renna to death.

It's also theoretically possible that if you believe hard enough that you're just shaving their face and not slitting their throat, you might be able to do just that. But that requires a certain amount of psychotic break that's not going to be typically possible...

As a reminder, can we keep this topic about Episode 8?

If you have issues with staff, please take it to Personal Messages and work it out there?

If you're particularly worked up about the episode, may I suggest take a breather? Go outside and touch some grass? 

41 minutes ago, ilovezam said:

This almost sounds a little like "the function of this pistol is not as a weapon, all it does is launch a projectile at a high velocity which can happen to hurt someone when I point it at them" 😛

 

The a'dam is explicitly designed as a deeply invasive enslavement device, I don't think it's "only to link two channelers". IIRC it's supposed to be nigh impossible for damane to even contemplate causing harm to their sul'dam, but Egwene straight up collared Renna with the intention to kill her.

I can use a gun as a spoon, just as Egwene can use a collar on her Sul'dam to make her look pretty.

The trick is to not have premeditation in mind while using the device.

9 minutes ago, Rhaze said:

D) or writing doesnt allow us to know if it is an oversight, screw up, or just lack of detail.

 

 There has been way too much of that so far, so it could be any of the above.

You missed the last line.
 

Quote

Those are the only 3 possible options I see to keep the shows lore internally consistent.

Like right now, they have 100% established a massive plot hole with the dagger in S2E8, considering what it did in S1E8.

45 minutes ago, EmreY said:

 

That is the crux of the issue you and I are having.  We do not know, we cannot know, and all we can do is conjecture.

Correct.

Either
A) She broke the 3rd oath and she's Black Ajah.

B) She never swore the 3rd oath.
C) She swore a different 3rd oath that allows her to protect the dragon and her warder.

Those are the only 3 possible options I see to keep the shows lore internally consistent.

How did they know a fourth oath would even work if someone didn't try it already?

Just like in the books if they know adding an oath beyond the 3rd works, someone had to have tried removing one.

Just now, EmreY said:

Because the absence of something does not imply its possibility.  The absence of evidence regarding a fourth oath does not imply that it is possible, just as the absence so far that I am a secret channeler imply that I could be.

She ALREADY has a fourth OATH!

4 minutes ago, EmreY said:

You're stretching.

How am I stretching?

Last season, they didn't show us the Gitara scene.

So was it stretching when we said that Moiraine was there for the Gitara prophecies?

We don't know that what they've changed, and they've already changed the 3 oaths by the very nature of introducing a 4th oath.

We don't know that Siuane and Moiraine haven't figured out that you can unbind an oath and make a new oath and change the wording of the 3rd oath to include the dragon... And that they won't just include that as a flash back in season 3 or 4...

Just now, EmreY said:

OK, so what if she considers Rand to be an Aes Sedai?

 

Just throwing ideas here, BTW.

That's stretching.

1 minute ago, EmreY said:

 

 

Yeah, that's a big problem.

 

On the other hand, what if Moiraine's mentally slightly off?  She's clearly obsessed with the Dragon in the conversational sense.  What if it goes a little beyond that?

 

I had this interesting back-and-forth with my current go-to guru, aka ChatGPT:

 

 

 

 

I think this might be something like what is happening here.

Your ChatGPT nonsense aside, we don't know that show Moiraine & Siuan don't have a tweaked 3rd Oath due to their dragon connection. 

They've already changed things by having Moiraine swear a 4th oath...

On 9/29/2023 at 9:14 AM, Ralph said:

https://www.nielsen.com/top-ten/

 

says 515m min

 

and s1 premiere had 1.16b.

 

so the op has done the maths based on that

 

but presumably many of those who didn't watch s1 until the end wouldn't come back, so better to compare to s1e8

 

 

5 hours ago, Ralph said:

 

source? 

 

and do you mean considering one ep. not three. so a third of the minutes available? in which case it went up a lot

Eps 1-3 had 515M minutes watched.

Ep4 also had 515M minutes watched...
https://www.nielsen.com/top-ten/

  
*edit*
Linked your post from 9/29/23 showing the 515M mins from the premier...

4 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Becoming a DnD DM taught me this, I have seen so many DM's try and perfect the world before they let players loose in it, wanting to know the backstory of Greta the barmaid in a tavern at the edge of the world, just in case the players go there. I have got really good at just having the minimum I need in my world at any one point for the story and then feed off the players to make the world and create the story as we go through it. 

Greta the barmaid is cleary the BBEG of the entire story. She's running a shadow network of mummy assassins, and she only went down that path because the players stiffed her on a bar tab 3 campaigns ago.

Just now, Guire said:

Big question.  Is Horn gone now?

I don't know. I tweeted that very question to Rafe... I doubt I'll get an answer. <_<