13 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I think it's at least partly due to the fact the group travels from Two Rivers to Shadar Logoth and Breen's Spring in just a couple of episodes. I'm not sure on the scale of the map but shouldn't that take weeks of traveling even on horseback? We also don't see any other major towns/cities so feels a bit empty. I'm sure it will get better in the next few episodes.

The Explore timeline in Prime Video shows it's been 11 days between Taren Ferry and Shadar Logoth. Four days after arriving in SL until Egwene and Perrin meet the Tinkers. Seven days after arriving in SL that Rand and Mat meet Thom. 14 days after arriving in SL that Moiraine, Lan, and Nynaeve arrive at the Aes Sedai camp.

6 minutes ago, enigmoxical said:

IMO, the only way to salvage this mess is to suspend the series now and get a real director (perhaps of del Toro caliber) to bring life to series. 

Like...  It's comments like this that make me wonder if people just set their expectations way too high.

Regarding the special effects, and starting specifically with Trollocs, they meet, if not slightly exceed, my expectations. I really do feel like I see the same issues with the trollocs you all do, "obvious" CGI in some places, I just think my expectations are different. If this was cinema or if it had the absurd LotR -show budget they could look flawless. They don't. But I think they did a very good job in a show with such intense visual effects.

Places like Shadar Logoth were obvious a mix of sets and CGI. I'm not sure what to do about that. The Witcher had some of the same issues (I'm looking at you, Cintra palace). There's no real-life location to film something like Shadar Logoth. 

The One Power is something I would have done different aesthetically, but the weaving I feel is fine as far as visual effects quality goes.

We are dealing with a heavy high fantasy story that includes a lot if supernatural, fantastical elements. I just think some of the "gaps" we're seeing is just the genre we're watching. The show has great funding for a first season, but resources aren't unlimited.

GOT was much grittier, much more human. You could use a lot of real world locations for their cities. There weren't eight foot tall human-beast hybrids in every episode. Walkers were just human shaped figures in make up (early on). Same goes with Orcs in LotR. You didn't have magical channeling in every episode. There were different hurdles as far as visual effects go.

I do hope as the series continues we'll see improvements here and there in WOT visual effects, of course, but I think it's a disservice the the show-makers to just say it all looks bad. I think it all looks pretty good, given the genre and the budget.

It'd be nice if we saw more cities, even small ones like Baerlon. The world of WOT is a world in decay. Formerly settled lands and kingdoms abandoned. So there is a sort of emptiness. Perrin and Egwene were crossing the Caralain grasslands, which are large unsettled plains, though with a few copse of trees here and there. In the books winter is still hanging on, refusing to go.

6 minutes ago, Still Trench said:

I watched the second episode and I certainly like it much more than the first episode, I’m at about 50/50 on this show. Shadar Logoth looked great, Mashadar not so much. But 1 thing is bugging me, why have they not mentioned the two halves of the One Power? Did I miss this, they’re not gonna change this aspect right?

Saidin and Saidar have been mentioned by both Pike and Judkins in very recent interviews. It's mentioned in the trivia for the show under its bonus features. And one of the upcoming lore shorts for the show is titled "Saidin, Saidar, Stone." So it will be in the show. They just seem to be easing people who haven't read the books into the lore slowly.

On a different forum I frequent there is a thread dedicated to the WOT books, and the reaction there has been pretty positive. 7 or 8 out of 10. When the show was announced they immediately thought it would be terrible. I think the bar for their expectations was on the floor. They didn't follow production news too closely, though they did share some basic news on casting. But so far they're all pleasantly surprised.

I hadn't forgotten about the oaths change. I remembered it being a concession soon after the trolloc wars because people distrusted channelers more due to the dreadlords.

6 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

if you want to play that game 

 

Two days into its run it had a 50% critic score, too. Reviews that came later were more positive.

5 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

She didn't know her father in the show, that's the whole point, a small change that only really causes later problems that they have to explain away, an unfortunately common issue they seem like they're going to run into.

She didn't know her biological father. She could also have just been taught by the Wisdom who brought her back to Emond's Field.

10 minutes ago, LoRd PyrO said:

In the book, nynaeve said she could not heal him, Thom, suggested he be brought to the winespring inn. There he hinted at Moraine abilities and Warned Rand about the cost of her assistance. To me these are very pivotal moments in the first book. I do not think they should have been excluded which they were

I mean, I'd love this to be in the show. I'd have loved a 75 or 90 minute pilot episode. I believe things could have been structured a little better and a little more development done. I think I'm more just "glass half full" on this. It's knocked a few points off my rating, but I'm still enjoying it, I think it does work on a lower level. There are crucial character/casting elements I do like, and I think the show can step it up and correct its mistakes. That's where I'm at. I'm not saying your points are all wrong.

2 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Don't really feel like she showed any particular fighting skill to be honest. She certainly didn't when fighting off a trolloc with Egwene. All she did later was hide from a trolloc in the darkness, and then stab him in the back with his weapon that was within her reach. Nothing particularly special there other than she has guts.

Probably internally thinking how much of a coward she is the whole time. 

1 minute ago, LoRd PyrO said:

 Also, where is Thom Merrilin?? Did I miss something?!!

Beware this thread is for the whole season so far. There is a separate dedicated thread for each episode. I suggest those if you don't want to be spoiled.

Very, very minor spoiler on your quoted question...

A woman can't have tracking skills if she won't explain who taught her. Inconceivable.

I told myself I was going to be done with the conversation, but I couldn't help it. People use the term "plot hole" nowadays for anything.

5 minutes ago, MaxZorin said:

If there's no time to flesh it out now, how's there going to be any time to do it later.

 

If the plan to be in a constant state of doing a poor job now with the promise of "fixing it' later, I must say, I think this is a poor plan.

I never said it was a poor job. Draghkar can easily be introduced later with a comment that they're often used for scouting/tracking/following, and we can retroactively apply that knowledge. Even without, it's not like it's beyond reason that the party can be tracked by a Myrdraal and trollocs, as far as viewers know.

And all could easily be fleshed out later, nor have to be taken in the one-note glass half-empty view you have.

Edit: Especially on Nynaeve, there is a perfectly legitimate motivation for why she's make a desperate ploy at bargaining with what she has: to get the Emond Fielders. Just as essential to her, especially early on, is her guardianship of the younger EF. The idea that the only justification is to make a weak social statement is just a weak assertion.

She may have been bluffing. We're not in her head. He didn't refuse and put her in a position with no negotiating room.

The draghkar is really a non-issue. There's no gaping plot hole there. Nothing that can't be accepted as reasonable for the shadowspawn pursuing them.

10 minutes ago, Starganderfish said:

This fits with what we’re seeing. LotR series got the A-Team, the biggest budget, the better CGI. WoT got the b-team. It shows. 

I'll just reiterate WOT still has a relatively huge starting budget comparable to how much HBO was investing in GOT at the end of its lifespan, comparable with the budget of The Witcher, too. It's not being shortchanged. They're just literally going all in in LotR.

Quote

 

But split that $80mill over 20 episodes, level out the pacing, do some actual character development and world building, allow us to grow with characters and the stories… sadly, that’s not how the streaming world works. So instead we have 2 or 3 massive books crammed into 8 episodes and way too much left out. 

 

I agree something like 14 or 16 episodes would add a lot for breathing room and characterization, though it'd also be pretty slow paced. But the big thing is there would be a huge hit to special effects, costuming, and set design.

13 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Why does she do this? Well as best I can tell the entire point of this change is to make it clear that even though Lan should have control of the situation, Nynaeve is still able to dictate terms. That honestly is how this show seems to have been written. Writing the characters to fit whatever they want to portray at that moment rather than how the character would act.

Remember that a change from the books here is that the EF are not currently with Moiraine. While I agree healing is a top priority for Nynaeve, the entire reason she left is to get the EF, and she'll do most anything to get them back, include bargaining in any way she can.

8 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

There's something about the portrayal of men in this series which is kind of weird.

I'm interested to see how it all develops. To me, it's a matter of things be abbreviated and limiting the number of characters a new audience has to deal with in an already packed episode while also highlighting certain motifs. The trivia you can access in the bonus features is more nuanced and balanced.

@Skipp It's separate according to Looper, which was also implied by the indie wire article I read earlier.

https://www.looper.com/408185/we-now-know-why-amazons-lord-of-the-rings-series-is-so-expensive/

I think they want this indistinguishable from a cinematic production.

Anyway, enough from me about LotR, but I was curious why WOT kept being referred to as the "poor man's" option relative to LotR (even though it has a sizable budget itself comparable to other shows in its target niche).

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

Is part of that the purchase cost of the rights, which I believe were in access of 250 million.

I'll double check, but I think it's separate from the rights. Amazon wants Rings to turn into a multi-show universe.

Blood and ashes! I just saw that Amazon has a budget of $465 million for just one season of their LotR series.

WOT has a comparable budget to later seasons of GOT and The Witcher. LotR is just... huge.

We need a woodsmans' topic to discuss these things. ?

I expected the Tinkers to be warm and inviting. I agree that them just standing there dumb on principle of ritual was weird.

7 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

- Why in a tiny run-down town in the back of a grimy depressing pub is there an adorable AirBnb room with conveniently reinforced doors

 

With superior soundproofing!

Ever watch You on Netflix? Maybe she has a murder room lol