18 minutes ago, Joe B said:

"The last time someone brought the Dragon to the Dark One..." - Dana

Anyone else find it odd she didn't say the Great Lord? Is that purposeful to not confuse viewers?

 

Another thought...Is she saying Ishy brought LTT to the DO????

To quote Jordan. "You believe Ishmael?" Same idea. Ishy says a lot of things about LTT in previous cycles. Doesn't mean what Ishy or the darkfriend says is right.

We'll probably see some more downs at some point, but WOT just hit 70% on Rotten Tomatoes (critic reviews).

3 hours ago, Vartija said:

When Dana has Rand & Mat cornered with the sword she says: "I see you. At night, in my dreams. All five of you. But only one of you matters."

 

Five? Does that mean Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene... and Nynaeve? I assumed only the boys & Egwene were the ones they were after, them being ta'veren. So is Nynaeve still a potential Dragon despite being 25?

Ishy don't know everything that's been revealed so far. He didn't have no private conversation with Nyn.

46 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

But people who haven't read the books have no idea.  "What's the creepy black stuff?"

 

Lan already gave them a mini history lesson, another 10-15 seconds could have been enough for the short term.  Poorly executed.

Maybe. But how many people who have only watched the show and only each episode once (without rewatching) are going to retain it? I already see comments about too much lore going in one ear and out the other. I've noticed that more lore for those curious is in the x-ray trivia.

I didn't take Moiraine's insistence as the type of matter of fact certainty regarding ta'veren or the Pattern. More like she just couldn't accept it and had to make herself believe otherwise rather than let herself believe the world had just been doomed to the Shadow.

The conversation between Nyn and Moiraine worked to show multiple facets of the characters, so that should be kept. Shortening the battle, or even just allowing three to five more minutes of run time could have allowed a little more elaboration at the end. I heard that Rafe wanted two hours for the first episode and was denied, but I wish they'd have given him 70 or 75 minutes.

Revisiting Moiraine's pants in the show, did Jordan ever describe in more detail what he meant by "skirts divided for riding"? In my headcannon I imagined very flowy and spacious pants. But it also could be skirts that literally were just divided in half front and back and weren't closed in any way, which would mean the wearer would probably have been wearing pants of a sort underneath. I am just interested in how Jordan envisioned it. I'm not nitpicking the show's choices.

6 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Still have a problem with Mat leaving his young sisters with his ne'er-do-well parents - even if it was supposedly to lead the trollocs away.  Personally, I still think the trollocs would have gone right through EF to chase the fleeing folks - why not get some meat for the journey?

The Myrdraal probably whipped them to follow the party. They were so close and weren't going to let them slip away while the Trollocs feasted.

13 hours ago, flinn said:

^But it is not for "honorable reasons". He stole because he needed to recoup his losses from gambling. That is the exact opposite of honorable.

I interpet what happened as Mat having some money, but not enough to buy anything from Fain. So he gambled to turn the some money into enough money, and ended up losing everything. So a string of poor choices and a downward spiral. He never has enough, and when he has some he takes absurd risks to try to make it bigger.

I could be wrong, though.

Yes, Egwene called her horse Bela at one point. Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Egwene's horses seem to have fled after Shadar Logoth. Not sure when we'll see them again. One of them met a tragic end. Hopefully not Bela!

5 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

or how totally pointless it would be (preserving a “mystery” that’s isn’t a mystery at all to anyone with an IQ north of 70). 

You basically just said that someone's wife above has a sub-70 IQ, and plenty of show-only watchers avoiding book spoilers are still guessing. So your assertion here is really off target and kind of insulting. You're approaching it all with book knowledge.

4 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

I just keep thinking that there has to be some reason for them making this big of a change beyond the mystery gimmick.

I just think they felt that the impact to the actual story they're telling is small enough compared to the blowback they'd have from "of course the savior has to be a man" crowd.

Edit: Also, I don't think every change (Perrin's wife, Mat's family) can be reduced to just "Rafe thinks he knows better." I think there are legitimate justifications for the translation in medium and other choices (yadda yadda yadda). But I do think this one about gender less souls, unless I'm shown otherwise, is a case where Rafe sees himself as correcting a fundamental imbalance. Though that doesn't mean there wasn't also the risk of blowback (see my first paragraph) they were avoiding. I have to wonder how much executive order there was coming down above Rafe after he gave his pitch, too.

Here is the final piece of x-ray trivia for episode three.

Quote

Aes Sedai law dictates that a man found channeling should be brought to the Tower to stand trial and then be "gentled" or cut off from saidin - the male half of the source.

It goes on to explain a bit more about gentling but this isn't the only reference to saidin in the trivia. There is still a male half and a female half in the show.

10 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Books are clear that the Dragon is always a dude.

I edited a little bit ago to be clear I meant the TV series.

2 minutes ago, Starganderfish said:

I wonder if we'll get the Karatheon cycle and the prophecies of the Dragon, or just vague legends and myths?

 

There hasn't been a whole lot of in depth characterisation, and a lot of its kind of shallow (Perrin Fridged his wife, Matts a thief and from an abusive home, Rand and Egwne are boning but they're not, Nynaeve aint from around here and is like 25 but also a village elder and apparently a ninja?...)
Plus non-book fans have a lot of info-dumping to deal with and not a lot of explanation. T'averren, One Power (which has two parts), Dragons and Trollocs and Shadar Logoth that was Aridhol but failed Manetheren in the Trolloc wors, which is different to Artur Hawkwings war... there's a lot going on and a lot hasn't been very well explained. 

Mat cons his way out of work and flirts with ladies. He's willing to do bad things, to a point, to provide for those he loves. And willing to run into danger for them.

Rand wants none of this. He just wants a family and a life in the Two Rivers. He's stubborn, a bit hot headed, but also not willing to abandon his friends. He is also honest.

Perrin, admittedly, is a bit harder to easily describe by episode three, as He's spent a lot of it in shock and grieving. He's quiet, introspective, but also shown to be protective of Egwene. But there's less there at this point.

Nynaeve is defensive, but also fiercely protective of the other EF. Hot headed. But when in danger she puts herself in front of Egwene to shield her, and even during the chaos of Winternight she was trying to help others, get them to safety, and keep them alive.

Egwene might also have a little less to go on at this point, but she's ambitious, and with the opportunity to do more than just have a farm arises, she doesn't hesitate too much before pursuing it. And when she learns she could be Aes Sedai, we see her continue that trend. But we don't see this as a negative trait, she's not malicious in any way about it.

These are distinctive things beyond just the events.

5 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

I am not privy to where Amazon is going. But, these details about Saidin seem irrelevant if the DR can be a woman.

I mean, the world (in the TV series) has no control about what sex the Dragon is reborn as.

5 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

It does feel like something an executive demanded that they slap onto the beginning after seeing the rough cut. 

I agree with that impression.

On an unrelated note, I don't understand how reviewers watched six episodes and don't find any of the EF5 characters distinctive. Even on episode three they all have their unique personalities.

Maybe they just didn't feel invested, sure. But there is certainly enough there for them to be distinctive characters.

Ishy was convinced they were locked in a repeating battle. Certainly LTT was, but I'm not sure Ishy was right that Ishy was always the nemesis. I think he confused himself with the DO.

Also, we don't know if LTT was ta'veren in the AOL. Maybe he was, but the phenomenon of ta'veren was unknown in the AOL.

Just now, JenniferL said:

Streaming services don’t do physical media releases. The whole point is to get you to subscribe after all. 

Oh no, I think you're right. I guess HBO is... or was... different.

3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

No she didn’t. She said they don’t know where the DR is. The lore hasn’t been changed. And we know we will see the Blood Snow, so we know that Rand’s birth has not been changed. 

I just listened to the intro monologue again, and it is problematic. The Dragon has been born again. "We don't know where, or to whom." There's no "where they are." I feel like the "or to whom" keeps the sentence referring to the birth.

Maybe they'll hand wave it away, I don't think it's entirely unworkable, but it was sloppy, imo.

I hope the blu ray release includes deleted scenes. I want to see what was on the chopping block.

3 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

True, I didn't remember that.

 

Maybe she has a Talent. Maybe she can "see" like Daredevil? ? Hopefully there's something that explains it.

Prescience from all the Spice imported from Arrakis. Those Bene Gess- er... I mean Aes Sedai...

2 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Yeah but spoken narration to the audience. You can't have her say she can't speak a lie and then have her speak narration to the audience that is a lie.

There is a little writer's trick called a retcon. This is one I think most show only watchers might easily forgive. We know it never should have happened to begin with.

I'm interested to see what happens in the actual story outside the opening narration. I have a suspicion it was something tacked on near the end of the project, but what do I know?

Just now, MasterAblar said:

 

I don't even understand the whole gate thing. So they didn't show the gate. Why would that mean it doesn't exist? 

In Lan's story he specifically says they built it without a gate or something. But not the type of detail I'm going to be upset about.