Hackers Mafia - Game Thread [Game Over]

[Zander?]

 

 

@Zander Why does dice's vote on your being awful = dice is scum?

Dice reasoning for voting me is awful.

 

No that dont make him Scum and like I said i dont think Nyn reacts like that as Scum.

 

He's the best of the worst for me so to speak.

You say scum is sock, dice, random

 

You say dice isn't scum.

 

Either you think he is or isn't.

 

 

I dont know for sure if youre all Scum, but thats where my heads at right now.

 

Only Sith's speak in absolutes.

 

If im wrong on someone in my PoE its most likely Dice is what Im saying.

[Eldrick4221]

I'm not saying you think we are all scum. I'm saying you put him in your scum list, and then said he isn't scum to you. It can't be both.

[Eldrick4221]

Stupid mobile ate my response to Cass. Time to type it again.

[Zander?]

I'm not saying you think we are all scum. I'm saying you put him in your scum list, and then said he isn't scum to you. It can't be both.

 

My only doubts really come from Nyn not Dice.

[Eldrick4221]

I can't for the life of me find cass' post anymore.

 

Cass, can you ask me again or quote the post?

[Cass]

 

Can you, please?

 

 

 

Or at least a top town (besides Marsh and yourself) and top scum, with reasons.

 

 

I have too many nulls atp tbqh.

 

Town-

 

Iron- IC

 

Notbob for now, were seeing eye to eye on reads and he doesnt seem to be pushing an agenda atp.

 

Monstr/Cass- I thought was Scummy but I dont think he reacts like that as well as Scum!Monstr.  Cass has looked ok upon catch up thus far.

 

Scum- Random/Dice/Sock- Want to see if my theory is right.

 

Random- Hasnt felt as involved as last game, picking and choosing when to use Meta on a reads list he felt prompted to respond with one.

 

Sock- Sooh's been posting but not really Scum hunting. Eldrick connection's post.

 

Dice- His reasoning for voting me is awful. But im having some doubts because I dont think Nyn would react like that as Scum

Agree with Random comment but this is a possibly scummy minority Town list/set of explanations IMO and it's wigging me out.

 

I saw a possible Random/Dice connection if you flip Town, put it aside for now cos loltwistedbiastunnel

 

I think Random/Eldrick is less likely based on joint move on Monstr. ?too direct/overt for WW.

 

I felt/can understand the ping that led to 'Eldrick's connection post'. I think Sooh explained it well.

 

How well do you read Sooh?

 

Why was Monstr scummy?

What do you mean by him reacting 'that well' as scum?

I don't at all fathom your thought process for those comments.

[Eldrick4221]

 

I'm not saying you think we are all scum. I'm saying you put him in your scum list, and then said he isn't scum to you. It can't be both.

My only doubts really come from Nyn not Dice.

So now that Nyn isn't in the game anymore, your read is only on dice.

 

So you have him as scum? Why? Just the vote on you?

 

I've seen him as town and want to see why we are different. If he's scum I want you to help show it. If you're scum, I want you to give your reasons for going after him.

[Cass]

I can't for the life of me find cass' post anymore.

Cass, can you ask me again or quote the post?

  

 

 

No quotes for this cos I gotta drive home but

@Eldrick - My issue with your call on Darthe is that I read it simply as him playing, I don't understand the leap to "he's deliberately avoiding work and going to take someone else's response as what's happened in the game".

Can you explain why you voted Monstr if you had him null and NotBob scummy?

Also, you and Darthe are both saying you're not going back to reread. You call him scummy for it, then say it would be scummy if it was anyone else, and then state it yourself a few posts later.

I get that I was wrong about Darthe, that this is normal for him. It rubbed me the wrong way and I took it as scummy without stopping to think about meta.

The difference between Darthe and me is I have read the thread once. He was saying he was gonna skip reading it.

As for manbat vs Notbob, the way manbat handled random's question felt very bad. I agreed with what random was pointing out and voted accordingly. Dice's explanation made sense as to why manbat did what he did, so I unvoted.

By the time I got to wanting to vote Notbob, I had realized that I should discuss with Sooh before placing a serious vote. Not used to this hydra thing.

You can have Brownie points for quote trimming :D but still don't follow the logic here wrt Darthe. (Have been able to see where you might have been getting other conclusions to here, but not that initial jump, can't code that anything but reachy). If you're not pushing it, let's agree to disagree and move on to see what else shakes out.

Pral has also said he may not read/what do you make of that?

The vote on Monstr was still awful regardless of the unvote (which in itself could be equally Town/Scum motivated as far as I can weigh)

Thoughts on Calder and Random's response to your Zander comment?

NotBob's recent posting?

Zander aorn?

 

This?

[Eldrick4221]

Yes. Thank you.

[Zander?]

 

 

Can you, please?

 

 

Or at least a top town (besides Marsh and yourself) and top scum, with reasons.

 

I have too many nulls atp tbqh.

 

Town-

 

Iron- IC

 

Notbob for now, were seeing eye to eye on reads and he doesnt seem to be pushing an agenda atp.

 

Monstr/Cass- I thought was Scummy but I dont think he reacts like that as well as Scum!Monstr.  Cass has looked ok upon catch up thus far.

 

Scum- Random/Dice/Sock- Want to see if my theory is right.

 

Random- Hasnt felt as involved as last game, picking and choosing when to use Meta on a reads list he felt prompted to respond with one.

 

Sock- Sooh's been posting but not really Scum hunting. Eldrick connection's post.

 

Dice- His reasoning for voting me is awful. But im having some doubts because I dont think Nyn would react like that as Scum

Agree with Random comment but this is a possibly scummy minority Town list/set of explanations IMO and it's wigging me out.

 

I saw a possible Random/Dice connection if you flip Town, put it aside for now cos loltwistedbiastunnel

 

I think Random/Eldrick is less likely based on joint move on Monstr. ?too direct/overt for WW.

 

I felt/can understand the ping that led to 'Eldrick's connection post'. I think Sooh explained it well.

 

How well do you read Sooh?

 

Why was Monstr scummy?

What do you mean by him reacting 'that well' as scum?

I don't at all fathom your thought process for those comments.

 

 

What are your reads and reasoning? 

 

Whats Scummy about my reads/reasoning if youre seeing some of the same things Cass?

 

I dont read Sooh all that well but ive been getting a little better lately.

 

I meant i dont think Monstr reacts the way he did as Scum!Monstr.

 

You agree with some of the stuff Im saying but you cant "fathom" where my reads and thoughts are coming from?!?!?!?!?

[Cass]

I'm out til tomorrow, night frands

[Zander?]

 

 

I'm not saying you think we are all scum. I'm saying you put him in your scum list, and then said he isn't scum to you. It can't be both.

My only doubts really come from Nyn not Dice.

So now that Nyn isn't in the game anymore, your read is only on dice.

 

So you have him as scum? Why? Just the vote on you?

 

I've seen him as town and want to see why we are different. If he's scum I want you to help show it. If you're scum, I want you to give your reasons for going after him.

 

 

Still dont mean im not gonna take Nyn;s game into account ffs.

 

Are you reading my posts, youve already asked me this and ive answered more then once,

 

Again Im not CERTAIN Dice is Scum.  Ive again mentioned Ive seen him go after bad reasons as Town!Dice to suss people, ex: random last game.

[Eldrick4221]

Pral has also said he may not read/what do you make of that?

 

The vote on Monstr was still awful regardless of the unvote (which in itself could be equally Town/Scum motivated as far as I can weigh)

 

Thoughts on Calder and Random's response to your Zander comment?

 

NotBob's recent posting?

 

Zander aorn?

Pral is notoriously not involved D1. I don't even try to solve him until later.

 

I don't agree that the manbat vote was awful. The way he handled random asking for information was bad. While I understand why he asked what he did, what random asked would have been useful to know. Dragging it out for pages wasn't helpful.

 

I explained how I can tell if Zander is scum. Random, who doesn't have the meta, read it and agreed because it made sense. That is what you do with meta you don't know yet. This was null to me.

 

Calder read it and interpreted it as how to read town!Zander. We disagree on how to read him with the same information. What "makes sense" which was the criteria of my meta read, differs from reader to reader.

 

Issue I had with that exchange is that random never spoke up after the alignment of the meta read was brought into question. I assumed he read it as "how to read town!zander" Because obviously that's how it reads to me. This isn't much of anything, though.

 

Commented on Notbob and Zander recently already. Will repeat if you want.

[Eldrick4221]

Didn't sink in the first time I guess. Sorry about asking again. Thank you for explaining.

[Eldrick4221]

Freaked out when I woke up today. I work at 6pm. Woke up to phone saying 5:46.

 

It was AM. Whew.

 

That being said, I'm gonna try to get more sleep. I'll try to get back on before work, but Tuesday is my double shift day, and I don't get on my phone at my first job.

[Eldrick4221]

Pretty sure Notbob still hasn't given a good reason to be pushing me. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Reason given: "changing the subject" Because I addressed another part of the forum.

[Eldrick4221]

Oh. And his original reason for voting me. "Because I'm scum"

 

If town, this is extremely low effort. Still waiting for Sooh to discuss him with me :(

 

Can I get everyone's read on Notbob and why?

[Andrej]

Vote Count 1.08

 

Zander (2) - Dice, Random

Sock (2) - NotBob, Calder

Random (2) - Zander, Darthe

Amega (1) - Cass

 

Not voting: Marsh, Sock, Pralaya, Shad, Amega

 

7 to lynch

 

D1 Countdown

[Ironeyes]

Oh. And his original reason for voting me. "Because I'm scum"

 

If town, this is extremely low effort. Still waiting for Sooh to discuss him with me :(

 

Can I get everyone's read on Notbob and why?

I'm caught up to around page 25 and notbob hasnt posted yet. Mega null

[Sooh]

 

 

 

Here for a couple of hours while pretending to work at work. 

I still have a couple of pages to catch up on, but there are some things I find really annoying. First off it's the notion that when people do something that's not within their meta it is scummy. It might be, but there are more factors that need to weigh into a read such as that. I'm worried this site is becoming way too meta heavy, and we'll run ourselves into a wall because we're not willing to open our minds and try to look at motivations for changed behavior other than different= scum. 

 

Meta is also SO EASY to rely on as scum when you're trying to get someone lynched. If that someone has been just a little different to what they normally behave like, you can just harp and harp on that until eventually people agree with you. That's not good guys!

 

I'm also really confused that people have actually tried reading me off my posts from yesterday. Yesterday by the time I went to bed the thread had barely moved out of the joke phase, and I think the only game related thing I said was that I was feeling ok about Zander's early game. I guess if your read on me is based on meta factors such as fairly high post count and light tone you can town read me off of that, but tbh I don't think any of that would have been impossible for me to say as scum, especially not early D1. 

 

 

 

I hope during the rest of D1 I can get to talk to each of you a little bit individually, because I find that I can more easily assess alignment then. Whoever's online, you're up next!

 

Sooh youre doing a lot of talking but not any Scum Hunting imo.

 

LITERALLY what I said here that I wanted to do. 

 

Or would you rather I pick some words in your posts and tell you my interpretation of them?

[Sooh]

 

I'm on page 28 and I hate you all! Why so many posts omg!

 

Also I don't understand the animosity in the thread at that point. Seriously. 

 

What struck you the most?

 

About the animosity? Not much tbh. Nothing of that really changed my view of either of those slots. 

[Sooh]

 

 

 

Calder, besides Eldrick and myself, what are your strongest reads atm? Town or scum.

I am about to make breakfast and get ready for work. I will answer your question in about 2 hours or so. Just dont have the time this second to give you anything detailed.

 

Kk, I'd like to get the time to talk to you at some point before the end of the phase, and I think that's a good place to start to see if we can get some sort of mutual understanding going, or see if we can understand what the other person is seeing.

 

 

I like Sooh...her narrative is very calm and thought provoking.  Unfortunately, she's more interested in promoting that she and her hydra are town rather than just hunting for scum.

 

You mean like you do, point in a direction and say "This is scum. Everybody vote here!" 

 

No reason, no way of knowing what it is you're talking about. 

[Sooh]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Random bugged me in small doses but I don't really have a head for him yet.  More things to work on.

 

I remember a point Marsh brought up last game about Random being overactive as Scum.

 

If that game he was super active and Town, I know its early but I felt last game his posts had more umph and substance to them then they have so far.

 

Last game started on a weekend, and we had a LOT of fluff before we got into real gameplay IMO. But fair is fair, I'll do a quick dig-in now that I'm all settled:

 Darthe: He's matching his last game fairly consistently so far, in which he was town, so for the moment I've got a slight town lean at the moment. I prefer to go off current game content more, but with what he's posted so far, this is all I have to go on (he does notice interesting things players say however, which can be insightful)

Calder: Tough to call. I'm trying to ignore what little meta I have on Calder, because he completely fooled me last game as SK (i thought him town) However, ignoring that still gives me a town read based on current game's play, but not a strong inclination just yet. Zander: Last game as IC he was twice as belligerent as he's been so far with his scumhunting. There's not a whole lot of activity in comparison, but he's not flouting himself as the town champion he was early last game. I don't feel great about this so far. Slight scum leanMarsh: IC. duh. (could use some input from him however)Dice: It's surprising that my posts this game haven't drawn the scrutiny from Dice I faced last time, which could be a bad sign for him, or could mean my play's been a bit more solid this game. I've got a slight town vibe from him for the moment

Notbob: He's been enigmatic for me. Asked some odd questions (Asking hypothetically about a Zander Vig shot?) but I haven't been feeling one way or the other quite yet. 

Sock: Sooh hasn't really posted much substance in my opinion either way. Eldrick is doing a good job seeming like he's looking for scum, but I felt a bit weird about how he was so quick to vote manbat after our interaction, and seemed to agree with everything I said. This could be paranoia - I'm not used to being agreed with frequently in mafia. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt for the moment, but that just equals a null read

Pral: BlankShad: I like Shad's play so far. I'm following his logic, he's posting concise yet thoughtful content. If he's a wolf, this is some spectacular play so far, but it is still early. Probably my biggest town lean so far

Amega: Again, not much at allCass: I don't know enough about manbat to setup any reads for Cass, but prior to the switch i'd have leaned scum on this player. We'll see if more activity changes anything. Random: All - American Hero

Looks like you read the thread already. So, a few things.

I see youre using meta from last.game on me but ignoring it on calder, and thats confusing.

Your dice read has good reasoning but.. Wait what? Lol no it doesnt.

How the eff do you get a read on sooh but not amega if sooh just showed up? She is like a cat gif and a squee into this game and she is orange.

[V] random [/v]

  

 

 

 

Sooh didn't just show up Darthe, but what she has posted was mostly during the pre-play phase. I'm not ignoring meta on Calder, I'm saying that he fooled me last game, so I'm leaning null to slight town. 

 

My Dice logic is based on him still playing like I saw before, but it was surprising that his venom wasn't pointed at me. As I said, the tricky thing with meta is that I don't know if the difference is his own play or mine, but his actual actions seem to favor town so far.

K, I still dont follow how you got where you are

 

Well, I already laid out what reasoning I had in the reads list, but if you desire quotes and such, I can do that now. Are you still mostly referring to the Dice bit, or the Calder / Sooh thing as well?

All of the above, but it can sit til the morning once you post it.

 

 

@Darthe - Looking into Dice logic, but the read on Sooh is null and the lean/orange on my slot is explained solely in context wrt monstr which makes enough sense for now?

 

@Random - Why are you surprised Dice's venom isn't directed at you here? Have you specifically tested his reaction for that?

 

Also, you don't actually explain there why you read him Town. Ie there is no discernable reasoning til that point.

 

To answer Darthe, here's my current-game reasons for leaning town on Dice:

 

 

oh no i didnt screw up  thought id quoted monstr too

 

@monstr  dont get lost in ATE bro  stay with us.

 

 

re monstrs core  he asked people he has meta with is how i looked at it and whose responses he was happy with. It is a common thing to ask opinions of people you are trusting or who are on the same wavelength as you.

 

He gave a clear, concise defense of someone I was beginning to FOS. He didn't jump onto a train, he provided information I had asked for and needed to make a decision, and that just feels town at this point in the game. HIs comment and subsequent dealings with Zander:

 

 

@monstr   Nyce is Town. Simple.

 

Notice tho that I voted Zander and he hasnt said a WORD about it despite replying to things posted after it.

 

Combined with Zander's OMGUS vote on me after my first reads list makes me wonder if my town lean on Dice following this exchange didn't ruffle his feathers. Feeling a bit more confident on my Zander read too. 

 

For Sooh, most of her posts were before and at page 21, and looked like this:

 

 

 

@Sooh

& mustard has no calories. It sells itself. Delicious and great for the waistline. It cant be.

mmmm more mustard for me plz

 

I can't base a read off that, so I went on what I had with the other head of the hydra. 

 

For Calder, his activity ceases around the same time. Most of it is regarding sandwiches and whatnot, but that's how he started last game as well. his few game related posts didn't give me huge vibes either way, but it's an early D1 read. 

 

What troubles me is both Zander AND Darthe's snap votes on me. Sure Darthe asked questions, and him claiming he won't read is both false and perfectly in line with his play, but Zander literally said he just did it as OMGUS, which seems a bad reason when responding to an entire reads list. Zander also doesn't seem the type to just vote when town and scum hunting, he's well-spoken enough to create a case or at least an FOS

 

Vote Zander

I don't hate the logic in bold wrt Dice but I disagree/think Dice's actual response is null in isolation.

 

Went back and skimmed a page either side of first Dice quote. Not a fan of Random or Eldrick's push/votes on Monstr.

 

I have my bias but Random's tone is off and Eldrick's quick vote in the context of his unvote off me where he says he had Monstr null seems inconsistent. Probably unlikely to be wolf-wolf that close together.

 

Zander can create cases/FoS as either alignment and is probably more vocal about actual 'cases' as scum imo.

 

@Random

- Do you have a different experience with Town/Scum Zander?

 

- Why do you jump into your defence of Sooh read (which is null) without processing that Darthe mixed up Sooh and I (specific with reference to Cat gifs and the colour orange)?

 

I don't know if this is a nitpicky word choice thing, but do you think that Random's choice to defend his read on me is an overreaction? The phrase "jump into your defense" seems very strong for what he did which in my opinion was more an explanation of a read. 

 

 

Is anyone else noticing the random/sock/nyce triangle of town reads on each other since I called out Eldrick's connections post?!??!?!!?

 

Ehh?

 

You need to point this out for me.

[Sooh]

 

Can you, please?

 

 

Or at least a top town (besides Marsh and yourself) and top scum, with reasons.

 

I have too many nulls atp tbqh.

 

Town-

 

Iron- IC

 

Notbob for now, were seeing eye to eye on reads and he doesnt seem to be pushing an agenda atp.

 

Monstr/Cass- I thought was Scummy but I dont think he reacts like that as well as Scum!Monstr.  Cass has looked ok upon catch up thus far.

 

Scum- Random/Dice/Sock- Want to see if my theory is right.

 

Random- Hasnt felt as involved as last game, picking and choosing when to use Meta on a reads list he felt prompted to respond with one.

 

Sock- Sooh's been posting but not really Scum hunting. Eldrick connection's post.

 

Dice- His reasoning for voting me is awful. But im having some doubts because I dont think Nyn would react like that as Scum

 

This does not feel like town-Zander.

 

Btw, Monstr last night was almost verbatum of his last scum game on Mafia Universe, even down to him being worried about me pocketing him.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

Here for a couple of hours while pretending to work at work. 

I still have a couple of pages to catch up on, but there are some things I find really annoying. First off it's the notion that when people do something that's not within their meta it is scummy. It might be, but there are more factors that need to weigh into a read such as that. I'm worried this site is becoming way too meta heavy, and we'll run ourselves into a wall because we're not willing to open our minds and try to look at motivations for changed behavior other than different= scum. 

 

Meta is also SO EASY to rely on as scum when you're trying to get someone lynched. If that someone has been just a little different to what they normally behave like, you can just harp and harp on that until eventually people agree with you. That's not good guys!

 

I'm also really confused that people have actually tried reading me off my posts from yesterday. Yesterday by the time I went to bed the thread had barely moved out of the joke phase, and I think the only game related thing I said was that I was feeling ok about Zander's early game. I guess if your read on me is based on meta factors such as fairly high post count and light tone you can town read me off of that, but tbh I don't think any of that would have been impossible for me to say as scum, especially not early D1. 

 

 

 

I hope during the rest of D1 I can get to talk to each of you a little bit individually, because I find that I can more easily assess alignment then. Whoever's online, you're up next!

 

Sooh youre doing a lot of talking but not any Scum Hunting imo.

 

LITERALLY what I said here that I wanted to do. 

 

Or would you rather I pick some words in your posts and tell you my interpretation of them?

 

 

But youre not actually Scum hunting from what I see.

 

Let me try to put it this way it seems like youre saying stuff for the sake of saying stuff.

 

Its still early but its something Ive noticed.

 

Like youre trying to stay on the sidelines so to speak