[Standard] Final Fantasy VII Mafia - Mafia Wins D4

[Cory Caboose]

Nah feels wrong

 

[v]csarmi[/v]

[BFG]

 

 

csarmi at this point we're not getting anywhere

 

i am sooh's counterwagon so if you don't want to to vote her, vote me and we can expedite this process because nothing remotely productive is happening anymore

What about Liz?

 

Not willing to fight bfg

 

I reconsider practically every read continuously. I've already accepted a possibility that other than Alanna all my early reads were wrong

 

I would be surprised if Sooh/Liz were m/m and I'm reviewing them both now

[csarmi]

Nah feels wrong

 

[v]csarmi[/v]

...

 

Seriously?

[Cory Caboose]

woudn't be fun if i gave that away would it

[Cory Caboose]

salami i'm not moving my vote until you vote glgl

[Clovdyx]

This vote count brought to you by the letter pants, which I just put on for the first time today at 4:30 in the afternoon.  Because I'm an adult.

 

 

Vote Count!

 

• Sooh - 1 - Lizabeth
  
• Cory caboose - 1 - Prallia
  
• Csarmi - 1 - Cory Caboose
  

 

Day Two ends at 12:30 Eastern time on Tuesday, 11/1.

[Sooh]

Hey guys. I'm here now and catching up.

[Cory Caboose]

hi

[Sooh]

 

 

 

 

Nyn, what are you thinking?

 

I don't even know anymore. You and Cory are off the table for me. Not gonna tinfoil there cause I'm gonna drive myself crazy and enough is enough. Like you said earlier (or I think it was you anyhow), Kat will only show tomorrow and I desperately need her to pitch in to be able to read her. She has less than 20 posts. Pral has like 10. They're not easy players to read as is and I just can't deal with that. I know they're typically low posters but come on.

 

Then you have salami who's like around but doesn't want to do anything. Yesterday he was yelling at me for having like 1.5 hours to catch up (by no fault but his own) and now that he has the time he's just twidling his thumbs. I don't even know where to start there and I definitely don't share the confidence Cory seems to have on that slot. I think Liz also mentioned liking salami. Maybe I'm just totally missing it. But like dude just sits there expecting people to spoonfeed him information that has been readily available, like he wants to transmit this clueless image. Come on, just reading the OP would have saved him a ton of time that he spent on wasting other people's time. I don't know how to process how he handled himself. And he seems unwilling to do anything that I can actually assess since according to him he can't even be bothered to catch up properly.

 

Then you have Sooh. I looked through her posts earlier. She's not an easy read for me, but I have correctly town read her in our last two games. She does seem less invested than I've come to expect from TownSooh but she seems to be going through something right now so I'm having a hard time balancing it our with her performance. And since half the game seems indifferent right now it's like everyone is sucking the WIM out of everyone and I feel it too. She's on the table for sure though, due to not really doing much towards game solving imo, but I'm just not super confident. She seems kinda mousy today though... I dunno.

 

Liz reads good to me. She's had less uumph maybe but I feel like compared to the others she's actually trying, asking questions, pushing and generally giving a sh*t. I don't think she's someone I'd consider for today. But I'd like her to give her thoughts when she shows, cause she just dropped a vote and took off. I'm also curious why she moved her vote from Darthe to Laine at EoD. It's something I noticed when I was looking over it earlier. @Liz ???

 

 

 

About Csarmi - his entry into the game bugged me at first, but then he seemed to be trying to balance out reading up on the game and dealing with stuff in real time. I liked that he seemed focused on trying to solve things at end of day.

 

I have no meta on him, only some reputation kind of things, so one thing I was tinfoiling over last night was whether his ability to jump in with two hours to deadline with a relative sense of calm and centredness is indicative of his usual town play or if he's one of those players who tends to be calm when they're scum and scattered when they're town. So I'm interested in your take on that.

 

As for moving my vote from Darthe to Alanna, it was because once he started responding to my questions, as much as I didn't like his answers, he started to sound more like pissy town rather than scum. And I wanted to keep the wagons even and Alanna was my next choice in terms of scumspects.

 

(Sorry Alanna)

 

I like that Liz has an explanation for EOD yesterday and where her vote ended up after all that pushing all day. I'll be taking that into consideration when I go back to look at her later.

 

(I think this will have to be Zander-style catchup, sorry in advance.)

[Sooh]

hi

Hey :)

[Sooh]

Anyways, I really am sorry Nyn, and also to Liz, Cory, Sooh since you've all 'tried' I just don't understand why, if that's the case, the thread feels like this. But it's not any 'One's' fault and is one of those things.

 

Would still appreciate continued attempts to change it

I know I've been underperforming, and I'm sorry about that. I'll try to make it up to you all from here on out, since I feel a bit better on a personal level. That being said, a lot of the time lately I think the games have been a bit like this, like trudging in mud and getting nowhere. I'm not sure why that is, but it feels like a bad trend.

[Sooh]

Hold on a moment here, Liz. 
 
If you thought Darthe was suspicious all day yesterday, and your move to Alanna was because he started sounding more townie
 

 

 

 

Nyn, what are you thinking?

 
I don't even know anymore. You and Cory are off the table for me. Not gonna tinfoil there cause I'm gonna drive myself crazy and enough is enough. Like you said earlier (or I think it was you anyhow), Kat will only show tomorrow and I desperately need her to pitch in to be able to read her. She has less than 20 posts. Pral has like 10. They're not easy players to read as is and I just can't deal with that. I know they're typically low posters but come on.
 
Then you have salami who's like around but doesn't want to do anything. Yesterday he was yelling at me for having like 1.5 hours to catch up (by no fault but his own) and now that he has the time he's just twidling his thumbs. I don't even know where to start there and I definitely don't share the confidence Cory seems to have on that slot. I think Liz also mentioned liking salami. Maybe I'm just totally missing it. But like dude just sits there expecting people to spoonfeed him information that has been readily available, like he wants to transmit this clueless image. Come on, just reading the OP would have saved him a ton of time that he spent on wasting other people's time. I don't know how to process how he handled himself. And he seems unwilling to do anything that I can actually assess since according to him he can't even be bothered to catch up properly.
 
Then you have Sooh. I looked through her posts earlier. She's not an easy read for me, but I have correctly town read her in our last two games. She does seem less invested than I've come to expect from TownSooh but she seems to be going through something right now so I'm having a hard time balancing it our with her performance. And since half the game seems indifferent right now it's like everyone is sucking the WIM out of everyone and I feel it too. She's on the table for sure though, due to not really doing much towards game solving imo, but I'm just not super confident. She seems kinda mousy today though... I dunno.
 
Liz reads good to me. She's had less uumph maybe but I feel like compared to the others she's actually trying, asking questions, pushing and generally giving a sh*t. I don't think she's someone I'd consider for today. But I'd like her to give her thoughts when she shows, cause she just dropped a vote and took off. I'm also curious why she moved her vote from Darthe to Laine at EoD. It's something I noticed when I was looking over it earlier. @Liz ???

 

About Csarmi - his entry into the game bugged me at first, but then he seemed to be trying to balance out reading up on the game and dealing with stuff in real time. I liked that he seemed focused on trying to solve things at end of day.

I have no meta on him, only some reputation kind of things, so one thing I was tinfoiling over last night was whether his ability to jump in with two hours to deadline with a relative sense of calm and centredness is indicative of his usual town play or if he's one of those players who tends to be calm when they're scum and scattered when they're town. So I'm interested in your take on that.

As for moving my vote from Darthe to Alanna, it was because once he started responding to my questions, as much as I didn't like his answers, he started to sound more like pissy town rather than scum. And I wanted to keep the wagons even and Alanna was my next choice in terms of scumspects.

(Sorry Alanna)

 

 
And at the same time you thought there existed a Sooh/Alanna/Ironeyes team, but 2/3 of that team were townies

 

 

 

 

Cory, Liz can you explain your read on Csarmi?

Not sure if my response to Nyn covers it, but basically I thought he looked good for trying to catch up but pay attention to current events in the thread and try to help out in two hours yesterday. I'm looking for feedback from people who have played with him before about whether that fits with what you'd expect for his play either way.

 

Yeah, caught it thanks

I don't necessarily disagree, just not sure it's enough to cross him out

 

I'm not crossing him out at this point either.

My grand theory last night was that Alanna, Sooh, and Ironeyes were all teamed, and then this morning before the flips I realized it was impossible for Alanna to be with Sooha nd Ironeyes so I changed it to Alanna plus unknowns vs. Sooh/Ironeyes...and then both Alanna and Ironeyes flipped town :(

so now it's basically going through my nulls list.

 

It means you're voting me now because why?

 

It just seems like there were villa wagons at EOD yesterday, and because it looked like Darthe would get lynched anyway without your vote you moved to Alanna, because wasn't there a vote of yours that was missed by the mods as well, which was on Darthe, or am I misremembering? And then all of a sudden it was on Alanna instead? 

 

Can you explain your thought process here?

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

Cory, Liz can you explain your read on Csarmi?

Not sure if my response to Nyn covers it, but basically I thought he looked good for trying to catch up but pay attention to current events in the thread and try to help out in two hours yesterday. I'm looking for feedback from people who have played with him before about whether that fits with what you'd expect for his play either way.

 

Yeah, caught it thanks

 

I don't necessarily disagree, just not sure it's enough to cross him out

 

I'm not crossing him out at this point either.

 

My grand theory last night was that Alanna, Sooh, and Ironeyes were all teamed, and then this morning before the flips I realized it was impossible for Alanna to be with Sooha nd Ironeyes so I changed it to Alanna plus unknowns vs. Sooh/Ironeyes...and then both Alanna and Ironeyes flipped town :(

 

so now it's basically going through my nulls list.

 

So is this why you're voting Sooh?

 

 

Yes, in part. But I'm concerned about her independently of those two as well. I'll potentially add more after I've caught up (on page 63 at the moment)

 

Alright, I am back from the holiday and fully caught up.

 

Yes, my vote on Cory wasn't random. I really felt he was scum and still the events of D1 doesn't change my mind regarding his play.

 

His game reminds me of the DM's alt game that happened sometime last year in November. He was scum and was generally disinterested in the game because of other mafia team remaining fairly inactive (which included me, yeah). He has a lot of posts but I don't see the intent in his posts.

Did he express as much frustration in that game as he has in this one?

[Sooh]

Eh, I'm at work so can't write paragraphs.

 

Short version is that until Matrix saying that Cory ATEs inwards as town and outwards as mafia was a pretty decent difference.

 

Since Matrix Cory has worked really hard (as far as I can tell, I haven't seen him as mafia often) on stopping the ATE outwards as mafia (in particular) and it's no longer a reliable tell (it was one of my main arguments against him in SA, in which we almost got him mislynched (sorry Cory)).

 

I think it's now pretty much situational dependent

I'm concerned. For the most part this game I have felt like Cory is his usual frustrated villager self, but the fact that people I think would be reading him well can't be certain anymore means that the tinfoil hat is on. 

[Lizabeth]

I'm mostly waiting for Kat to turn up so I can get a real read on that slot

 

I want to know why Liz's read on Sooh has changed

 

And I'm waiting to see what Sooh says

 

I want to see what Csarmi says when he's read through

 

I'm hoping Hallia will show up, as she can be a little easier to read than Pral

Okay, in case you're still here, i'll give you what I wrote yesterday morning - I'm still on page 64 at the moment:

 

I was thinking Alanna, Sooh, and Ironeyes might be teamed. Mainly because of the way the votes shifted at end of day yesterday. It seemed like everything was moving away from the three of them to wind up on Darthe. Despite expressing early concerns/questions about Alanna (shade), Sooh never seemed to consider actually voting for alanna at end of day. So originally I was thinking "early bussing". But going over the posts again this morning I'm realizing that Sooh was shading Alanna pretty heavily multiple times in the early game, although she doesn't really address her at all at end of day. So I'm realizing it's probably either town Sooh wifoming over Alanna's alignment based on past experience, or scum Sooh setting Alanna up as a patsy for a future lynch and taking the opportunity to get unpredictable Darthe out of the way. And then there was a little thing that might mean nothing but pinged me in that Sooh was the only one to unvote Ironeyes after his claim to feel the need to explain it (saying she didn't want to vote an uncounterclaimed PR claimant).

So originally, I was thinking Alanna, Sooh, and Ironeyes could be teamed. But when I look over things again, I'm realizing that it's really unlikely that Alanna and Sooh are a scum team. Ironeyes and Alanna probably not either, because he drew attention to her pretty early and maintained her as a potential lynch pretty consistently. So I could see Ironeyes and Sooh, but potentially Alanna and someone else (like Prallia or Csarmi, although I don't think it's them).

 

/That was what I wrote before the flips.

 

I feel like I already wrote this somewhere in thread, but now I can't remember - but I also realized that I was being kind of egocentric in my reasons for thinking Sooh was likely town - in that I thought her responses to me when I challenged what I saw as potential shading of me (the Nyn thing and the Darthe thing) was what I needed to hear without sounding like what I wanted to hear - i.e., she wasn't backing down from the interpretation that was irking me, but she seemed to be explaining her thought process. But when I thought about it more, I realized that I wasn't her only or primary audience there, and maybe her responses weren't intended to mollify me but more intended to mollify others.

 

But I'll see what I think when I finish catching up, because I see from notifcations that she's posted quite a bit...

[Lizabeth]

 

I would guess Cory's town.

 

In general the vote switching he did is more likely from town him, I can't remember the Alts game particularly well, but pretty much every other mafia game I've seen from him is characterized (in part) by being focused at end of day on a lynch. If he's mafia then there were 3 town being pushed, there's no need to introduce Sooh.

 

If he did it to mess with us then I'd expect himto be having more 'fun' now

 

I don't see why. All the three trains were town. There was quite an incentive to switch votes as scum at that point.

 

There were four trains at EOD, though. What do you think of the Sooh train?

[Sooh]

Her read on Ironeyes wolf ---> villager post claim

 

Or her read on Darthe villager ---> wolf when Darthe became a wagon?

Did you even read my EOD?

 

I wasn't sure on Darthe by a long shot. I thought he looked good in the initial phases, but at the same time his level of interest and involvement reminded me of spoopy mafia, so when he started hard core defending Ironeyes towards EOD I felt like he was trying to protect a scum mate or white knight a villager to make himself look good. That's why I was pushing him at EOD, and it had nothing to do with him being wagoned at all. 

[Lizabeth]

 

I have to go eat my partially burnt dinner...

 

But BFG and Nyn, I'm interested in your thoughts on Prallia as well.

 

I was town-reading them based on Pralaya's response to Cory which seemed genuine and thought out. But it kind of bothered me that he kind of peaced out after people started town reading the slot and pressure was off.

 

I know Hallia's on a roadtrip and when I reread last night I saw that Pralaya is on a holiday weekend, but I'm wondering what your current thoughts are there.

Thanks for this.

 

Got around to ISOing both just now.

 

Hallia starts off saying she'll catch up and then basically has like one semi game related post (that Cory pointed out before) that says that there's a lot of skilled players and that scum are gonna be hard to spot. eh. Her couple of posts were on page 10 so I'm not perturbed by her not having much to address at that point. It would be a HUGE help if she does show up today because I have a better track record reading her.  

 

As for Pral, his read list seemed fine overall. It's pretty close to my own impressions, Specifically seeing what I saw irt Laine. Good impression on BFG and you.Obviously disagree about Cory. But Pral does tend to have like at least one read that goes against the tide, so to speak. So maybe Cory is right that it's a good look for him. And I guess I can sorta see where he's coming from, I just think he's wrong. I'm not a huge fan of him voting there even though he openly admitted that it prolly won't get traction. On one hand it's like... ok, this is a hybrid hammer game so it's no big deal, but he could have gone for a secondary suspect that would have been more useful and might have gotten traction. He could have explored Laine or even Sooh/ Kat, who he mentioned pinged him. But maybe it's just stubbornness. Overall I think the slot looks okay but I really wish I had more to work with.

 

 

@Pral  I asked you about the Sooh/Kat pings among the questions about Laine and commenting about Cory... and you snipped the quote and addressed only the Laine and Cory part. Can you answer that part too?  I wanna know what you saw when you were catching up that bothered you irt those two slots.

 

[Lizabeth]

In a dumb attempt to lighten the mood, I legitimately have 4 e-mails from work informing me to not 'use' camel urine

XD

[Cory Caboose]

That was asking for an explanation from Pral for his read in [layman's terms], not about your behavior

[Cory Caboose]

Sooh Liz

 

i see you

[Cory Caboose]

But I don't think anything is gonna stop this rollercoaster leading to my third straight town loss at DM, where I don't think I will ever win again as a villager but probably will as a wolf bc it's ez as hell afaict

[Lizabeth]

 

PRAL IS YOUR READ ON SOOH CONDITIONAL TO YOUR READ ON ME OR IS IT BECAUSE YOU THINK SHE'S A VILLAGER RE: HER CONTENT

 

pls answer

No, I mentioned a bit earlier why I read sooh town. Especially because of her progression on Ironeyes and Darthe on D1.

 

Can you explain this to me? Because I don't see the validity in the argument.

[Cory Caboose]

I have lost BFG's faith despite not being allowed to pursue any of my suspects rationally when [people tend to just lazily clear me based on whether or not I lynch wolves instead of my posts]

 

Pral and csarmi are lost

 

If there's a villager in Liz/Sooh they are probably lost

 

Sadly Kat and Nyn are the only people that have any faith in my whatsoever and I would think Kat's ??? faith is probably more of a telltale sign she's a wolf anyway so L O L

[BFG]

Evening folks :)

 

@Liz, I read that earlier but didn't see where you'd settled on scum Sooh over town Sooh, although I see the teams argument