A First Time Reader's Impression of The Wheel of Time

[jack of shadows]

a few points of clarification,

 

1.the dagger is tainted,mat holding it has nothing to do with its ability to destroy,

the taint is corrupting (and to some extent controlling) mat,not the other way round.

 

2.ingtar wasn't "bors".

 

3.the whitecloak force at falme was destroyed by the seanchan not the heroes of the horn.

 

4.you do realise that rand himself is one of the heroes of the horn?

 

and,and...the dragon reborn leading the charge of the light brigade(pun intended)to destroy the seanchan..

epic.

[Cambry Varner]

a few points of clarification,

 

1.the dagger is tainted,mat holding it has nothing to do with its ability to destroy,

the taint is corrupting (and to some extent controlling) mat,not the other way round.

 

2.ingtar wasn't "bors".

 

3.the whitecloak force at falme was destroyed by the seanchan not the heroes of the horn.

 

4.you do realise that rand himself is one of the heroes of the horn?

 

and,and...the dragon reborn leading the charge of the light brigade(pun intended)to destroy the seanchan..

epic.

 I sorta figure that "Bors" wasn't Ingtar.  The guy seemed more sneaky, for lack of a better word at the moment, than Ingtar could managed, and I remember at the end of the prologue, if I'm not wrong, he had to pull on a white cloak.  I think Bors is a White Cloak.  

 

Also, there was a scene where Bors is watching a nervous Shienaran wearing a mask.  

[mb]

the identity of Bors is revealed in book 4.

 

Ingtar was at the Darkfriend gathering.

[jack of shadows]

ingtar was present at the darkfriend tea party? when was it confirmed?

[Cambry Varner]

Okay, time for my character breakdown.

 

Rand:  This book has really been transitional for him.  He has moved from being a shepard boy from a small village to being a Lord and then towards becoming the Dragon Reborn.  At first it was a position he was ill-equip for, but was forced into when Moiraine wisely had him trussed up like a Lord to encourage the role of leadership which he is well suited for.  As seen earlier when he, Loial, and Hurin found themselves in the other world, he took on the role of leader of their small group and is publicly recognized as a Lord by the nobility of Cairhien nobles.  Even when they are reunited with the rest of the hunting party, he isn't kow-towing to Ingtar, the warrior lord or Verin, the Aes Sedai.  He speaks to them as if they are on the same level much to the amazement of his friends.  He is leaving a trail behind and his name is coming more and more widely known.  I wonder if Eomond's Field has learned of his activities yet?  

 

I like how Moiraine and Lan both told him he was free to go, but he insists on going along with the Hunt to get back the Dagger for Mat, all the while playing into their hands.  And towards the end, that's what he kept telling himself over and over, but I believe deep down, he knows this is what he needs to do and it's not just for Mat's dagger.  Rand is no longer the wide eye youth that left Eomond's Field.  He's no longer being towed around by Moiraine to flee from Trollocs and Darkfriends, but has a purpose in a quest, several times leading the quest onward.  

 

Perrin:  Perrin is on his way to accepting his role as a Wolfbrother.  Twice, he has used his ability with wolves to help the party, yet at the same time maintaining his secret.  And he has notice the change in Rand and the change in themselves.  I'm eager to see more of him in the following books.         

 

Mat: He has really annoyed me in this book.  Especially his hang up with Rand's attempt to push them away.  I've had scraps with friends before and you get mad, but then you get over it.  I was really expecting the Horn to be blown by Rand, but it seems Mat got the honor, therefore tying another item of legend/power/magic, etc to him.  Of the three boys, he has the least amount of change that I've seen

 

Egwene: Okay, this book hasn't been kind to Egwene.  Tough training at the White Tower, being betrayed and then leashed by a Seanchan and tortured.  And not to mention that she is still dealing with her feelings for Rand.  It was no picnic for her to see Min lying in bed with Rand and was quick to point out the danger of being with a man who could soon go mad, but as Min retorted, Egwene tossed Rand aside to train in the White Tower.  Perhaps she has a problem letting go of him or seeing him with another girl.  One thing I like about what she has taken from the ordeal is an edge that she didn't have before when she left Emond's field.    

 

Nynaeve: In the first book, I didn't like Nynaeve, but I have to say that she has really grown on me in this book.  She has shown me why she is the Wisdom and skipped the title of Novice to Accepted as she handle the situation with the Seanchan with her mega channeling strength and determination.  Her golden moment for me when she snapped open the leash with channeling, using her rage as a power source.  

 

Thom Merrilin:   As much as I am glad to see Thom again, I feel bad for him that he lost Dena.  Dena was an interesting character and I had been expecting to see more of her as I imagined if Thom followed Rand, she would follow Thom.  I believe that Thom killed the king of Cairhien for his part in Dena's murder, though I can't help, but believe that Dena would still be alive if Thom and Rand had never crossed paths.  

[Cambry Varner]

ingtar was present at the darkfriend tea party? when was it confirmed?

I'd just assumed he was the nervous Shienaran.  I went back and glossed over the prologue chapter to be certain.

[jack of shadows]

yes,ingtar was present at the darkfriend  party, i just reread his entry

in the wheel of time companion.

 

by the way,not one word about min's incredibly interesting encounter with lanfear?

 

[Cambry Varner]

yes,ingtar was present at the darkfriend  party, i just reread his entry

in the wheel of time companion.

 

by the way,not one word about min's incredibly interesting encounter with lanfear?

There's so much to write about I forget stuff, but yes.  Lanfear will be a problem for Rand in the future, I can imagine.  And I have the feeling that Lanfear and Selene are one and the same which would make so much sense.  Watch out, Rand!

[dexterryu]

Okay, time for my character breakdown.

 

Rand:  This book has really been transitional for him.  He has moved from being a shepard boy from a small village to being a Lord and then towards becoming the Dragon Reborn.  At first it was a position he was ill-equip for, but was forced into when Moiraine wisely had him trussed up like a Lord to encourage the role of leadership which he is well suited for.  As seen earlier when he, Loial, and Hurin found themselves in the other world, he took on the role of leader of their small group and is publicly recognized as a Lord by the nobility of Cairhien nobles.  Even when they are reunited with the rest of the hunting party, he isn't kow-towing to Ingtar, the warrior lord or Verin, the Aes Sedai.  He speaks to them as if they are on the same level much to the amazement of his friends.  He is leaving a trail behind and his name is coming more and more widely known.  I wonder if Eomond's Field has learned of his activities yet?  

 

I like how Moiraine and Lan both told him he was free to go, but he insists on going along with the Hunt to get back the Dagger for Mat, all the while playing into their hands.  And towards the end, that's what he kept telling himself over and over, but I believe deep down, he knows this is what he needs to do and it's not just for Mat's dagger.  Rand is no longer the wide eye youth that left Eomond's Field.  He's no longer being towed around by Moiraine to flee from Trollocs and Darkfriends, but has a purpose in a quest, several times leading the quest onward.  

 

Perrin:  Perrin is on his way to accepting his role as a Wolfbrother.  Twice, he has used his ability with wolves to help the party, yet at the same time maintaining his secret.  And he has notice the change in Rand and the change in themselves.  I'm eager to see more of him in the following books.         

 

Mat: He has really annoyed me in this book.  Especially his hang up with Rand's attempt to push them away.  I've had scraps with friends before and you get mad, but then you get over it.  I was really expecting the Horn to be blown by Rand, but it seems Mat got the honor, therefore tying another item of legend/power/magic, etc to him.  Of the three boys, he has the least amount of change that I've seen

 

Egwene: Okay, this book hasn't been kind to Egwene.  Tough training at the White Tower, being betrayed and then leashed by a Seanchan and tortured.  And not to mention that she is still dealing with her feelings for Rand.  It was no picnic for her to see Min lying in bed with Rand and was quick to point out the danger of being with a man who could soon go mad, but as Min retorted, Egwene tossed Rand aside to train in the White Tower.  Perhaps she has a problem letting go of him or seeing him with another girl.  One thing I like about what she has taken from the ordeal is an edge that she didn't have before when she left Emond's field.    

 

Nynaeve: In the first book, I didn't like Nynaeve, but I have to say that she has really grown on me in this book.  She has shown me why she is the Wisdom and skipped the title of Novice to Accepted as she handle the situation with the Seanchan with her mega channeling strength and determination.  Her golden moment for me when she snapped open the leash with channeling, using her rage as a power source.  

 

Thom Merrilin:   As much as I am glad to see Thom again, I feel bad for him that he lost Dena.  Dena was an interesting character and I had been expecting to see more of her as I imagined if Thom followed Rand, she would follow Thom.  I believe that Thom killed the king of Cairhien for his part in Dena's murder, though I can't help, but believe that Dena would still be alive if Thom and Rand had never crossed paths.  

 

So regarding Mat... as I've said before in Book 3, The Dragon Reborn, he finally gets some attention and some PoV. Without spoiling anything you'll begin to understand that the dagger and it's taint was a big influence on his behavior. If you recall back in book 1, in the beginning he was a pretty good guy if stupid and immature, then as he and Rand traveled on their own he became darker as time goes on. What Moiriane did in book 1 to save him was just a stopgap.

[Cambry Varner]

 

Okay, time for my character breakdown.

 

Rand:  This book has really been transitional for him.  He has moved from being a shepard boy from a small village to being a Lord and then towards becoming the Dragon Reborn.  At first it was a position he was ill-equip for, but was forced into when Moiraine wisely had him trussed up like a Lord to encourage the role of leadership which he is well suited for.  As seen earlier when he, Loial, and Hurin found themselves in the other world, he took on the role of leader of their small group and is publicly recognized as a Lord by the nobility of Cairhien nobles.  Even when they are reunited with the rest of the hunting party, he isn't kow-towing to Ingtar, the warrior lord or Verin, the Aes Sedai.  He speaks to them as if they are on the same level much to the amazement of his friends.  He is leaving a trail behind and his name is coming more and more widely known.  I wonder if Eomond's Field has learned of his activities yet?  

 

I like how Moiraine and Lan both told him he was free to go, but he insists on going along with the Hunt to get back the Dagger for Mat, all the while playing into their hands.  And towards the end, that's what he kept telling himself over and over, but I believe deep down, he knows this is what he needs to do and it's not just for Mat's dagger.  Rand is no longer the wide eye youth that left Eomond's Field.  He's no longer being towed around by Moiraine to flee from Trollocs and Darkfriends, but has a purpose in a quest, several times leading the quest onward.  

 

Perrin:  Perrin is on his way to accepting his role as a Wolfbrother.  Twice, he has used his ability with wolves to help the party, yet at the same time maintaining his secret.  And he has notice the change in Rand and the change in themselves.  I'm eager to see more of him in the following books.         

 

Mat: He has really annoyed me in this book.  Especially his hang up with Rand's attempt to push them away.  I've had scraps with friends before and you get mad, but then you get over it.  I was really expecting the Horn to be blown by Rand, but it seems Mat got the honor, therefore tying another item of legend/power/magic, etc to him.  Of the three boys, he has the least amount of change that I've seen

 

Egwene: Okay, this book hasn't been kind to Egwene.  Tough training at the White Tower, being betrayed and then leashed by a Seanchan and tortured.  And not to mention that she is still dealing with her feelings for Rand.  It was no picnic for her to see Min lying in bed with Rand and was quick to point out the danger of being with a man who could soon go mad, but as Min retorted, Egwene tossed Rand aside to train in the White Tower.  Perhaps she has a problem letting go of him or seeing him with another girl.  One thing I like about what she has taken from the ordeal is an edge that she didn't have before when she left Emond's field.    

 

Nynaeve: In the first book, I didn't like Nynaeve, but I have to say that she has really grown on me in this book.  She has shown me why she is the Wisdom and skipped the title of Novice to Accepted as she handle the situation with the Seanchan with her mega channeling strength and determination.  Her golden moment for me when she snapped open the leash with channeling, using her rage as a power source.  

 

Thom Merrilin:   As much as I am glad to see Thom again, I feel bad for him that he lost Dena.  Dena was an interesting character and I had been expecting to see more of her as I imagined if Thom followed Rand, she would follow Thom.  I believe that Thom killed the king of Cairhien for his part in Dena's murder, though I can't help, but believe that Dena would still be alive if Thom and Rand had never crossed paths.  

 

So regarding Mat... as I've said before in Book 3, The Dragon Reborn, he finally gets some attention and some PoV. Without spoiling anything you'll begin to understand that the dagger and it's taint was a big influence on his behavior. If you recall back in book 1, in the beginning he was a pretty good guy if stupid and immature, then as he and Rand traveled on their own he became darker as time goes on. What Moiriane did in book 1 to save him was just a stopgap.

 

He did get a bit better, I will say and I do look forward to seeing how he is on his own without Perrin or Rand.  

 

A few things I forgot.

 

Rand's sword, or Tam's sword I should say.  I recall that I said it served as symbol of his relationship to his father, but I may have been wrong.  It's more as if he's clinging to a memory, his old life as a shepard and when the sword is destroyed, he let go of the concerns he had of whether Tam was his father or not.  He basically put it to bed and I see it as his way of growing up.  In the Great Hunt, he went through a period of growing up, the teenage rebellion of wanting to deny what he is to Moirane and Lan the (could be a stretch) surrogate parents.  He had a brief falling out with friends and fell for a pretty girl, and was brash in handling the invitations, all signs of adolescent behavior.  I wonder if in the following books, we see Rand reaching adulthood and his calling.  

 

Hurin:  Sorry, I couldn't leave Hurin out.  He had a part to play in Rand's development.  If not for him, Rand and Loial in the other world would have just been a buddy story of two friends making their way as equals.  With Hurin around, Rand was pushed into a position of leadership and placed on him the title of Lord Rand.  Also, I love how so much kept flying over his head because he wasn't in the know of what was going on.

 

Loial:   It seems we learn the real reason for Loial's flight and strong resistance to being around other Ogier.  He doesn't want to get married and tied down.  Not that I blame him, he has a sense of wonderlust that makes him the adorable, big book loving guy we have come to know him as.

 

Ingtar:  Couldn't leave him out either.  Ingtar took me by surprise.  And I don't hate him.  I want to believe that he died a good death, redeeming himself and it was big of Rand to cover for him, not reveal to the others that he had been a Darkfriend all along.  And I want to believe that he gave Rand a model of how a Lord should act.  Even though he was working on the orders of the Dark One, perhaps the Wheel used him to help Rand along his path towards defeating the evil.  Goodbye Ingtar, and I hope the Light embraces you as one of her own.

[dexterryu]

 

 

     

 

Mat: He has really annoyed me in this book.  Especially his hang up with Rand's attempt to push them away.  I've had scraps with friends before and you get mad, but then you get over it.  I was really expecting the Horn to be blown by Rand, but it seems Mat got the honor, therefore tying another item of legend/power/magic, etc to him.  Of the three boys, he has the least amount of change that I've seen

 

So regarding Mat... as I've said before in Book 3, The Dragon Reborn, he finally gets some attention and some PoV. Without spoiling anything you'll begin to understand that the dagger and it's taint was a big influence on his behavior. If you recall back in book 1, in the beginning he was a pretty good guy if stupid and immature, then as he and Rand traveled on their own he became darker as time goes on. What Moiriane did in book 1 to save him was just a stopgap.

 

He did get a bit better, I will say and I do look forward to seeing how he is on his own without Perrin or Rand.  

 

 

 

Again... as unspoilerish as I can be: Imagine how he was prior to Shadar Logoth in terms of pranks and getting into trouble, mixed with some ridiculous good luck, a lot of drinking/gambling/chasing girls, and a bunch of reluctant - yet fearless heroism. Throw in some subtle PTSD.

Edited September 9, 2016 by dexterryu

[Cambry Varner]

Finished the Prologue of The Dragon Reborn.

 

Currently at 4%

 

In which I . . .

 

Meet Niall, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch . . .I mean Children of Light.

 

Meet a strange character that meets oddly familiar.

 

And learn that Darkfriends can be found anywhere.  

 

* * * 

 

Well, it seems that NIall has plans that I think are going to blow up in his face.  He has no idea that the Dragon Reborn has finally come and all his ideas of leading mankind against the Dark One and becoming a legend will be useless in the end.  Or at least that is what I think.

 

And he has a gremlin, sorry, informer who sounds oddly familiar.  If that is who I believe it is, then how did he get all the way from Falme to White Cloak City (sorry, can't remember the name of the country).  

 

And the Questioner turns out to be an actual Darkfriend.  As I learned from Ingtar, you never know who can be trusted so I'll be having a weary eye towards any new characters from here on.  

[jack of shadows]

ah! the ubiquitous mr ordeith.

your white cloak city is amador capital of amadicia lol.

 

as a side note,(the) wheel of time world is infested with characters

harbouring serious delusions of grandeur.

[mb]

As I learned from Ingtar, you never know who can be trusted so I'll be having a weary eye towards any new characters from here on.  

a better basis for judging any character ("new" or "old") would be their actions.

[Cambry Varner]

I am reminded of an old Star Wars character I role played as for the Saga Edition.  She was a violet skin Zeltron who had the mentality of a Valley Girl and her goal was to locate her missing identical twin sister.  So she went around with a picture of her sister (her IDENTICAL TWIN sister) and went around asking people if they have "Seen this girl."  She would interject any conversation with NPCs by shoving the picture under their nose and demanding, "Have you seen this girl?"  It became her catch phrase.  "Have you seen this girl?  Have you seen this girl?"  

 

Eventually one of the PCs went missing so she drew a stick figure image of him and went around asking, "Have you seen this guy?"

 

The reason for this tale is that I imagined her going around Randland and demanding of any stranger the party meets if they are a Darkfriend.  "Are you a Darkfriend?"  "It's the law, if I ask you are a Darkfriend and you are, you have to tell the truth.  If you lie, then you are worse than a Darkfriend.  You are a lying Darkfriend."   

[dexterryu]

How goes the reading?

[Cambry Varner]

Sorry. Been sick with stomach flu. Haven't done much reading.

[szilard]

Sorry. Been sick with stomach flu. Haven't done much reading.

 

I want to let you know that I miss your writings and wish you a quick recovery!

[jack of shadows]

same here,i wish you speedy recovery,rand needs your support!

[Finnssss22]

Well I hope you're feeling better and get back going soon cause once you finish tDR, you will start what I consider the 3 best consecutive books and the height of the series.

[Occams whiskey bottle]

I felt that the first 7 books were awesome. Don't know why some people don't care for the 7th. 

[Finnssss22]

I felt that the first 7 books were awesome. Don't know why some people don't care for the 7th. 

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I liked aCoS, it was a good book.

It simply suffers from following, imo, the 3 very best in the whole series. It was also the first book that we had to wait a little longer for.

Up till that point, we had gotten 6 books released in just under 5 years. 2 in '90 and one every year after in the fall like clockwork up to book 6. We had to wait a little more than a year and a half for aCoS.

I started reading the first book in '91, about a month before tDR was released.

The only book that I felt came close to the euphoria I experienced of books 4, 5 & 6 was KoD, book 11.

Those are the top 4 books in the series afaic.

That said, all the books are good or very good with the exception of book 10, CoT.

CoT was a trainwreck that we waited a long time for and had a lot of people genuinely worried about the series going forward.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Finnssss

[Cambry Varner]

I'm back!  Fully recovered!  

 

Currently at 9% of The Dragon Reborn

 

In which Perrin gets a visitor in the woods.

 

Min gets a vision of an impending death

 

Rand has a fit and rattles a mountain

 

Perrin dreams a dream

 

 

Instead of the terrific trio, we are down to the dynamic duo of Perrin and Rand.  I heard through the grapevine that this novel, though features Rand as the title character, doesn't have him as the main pov character which is going to be interesting to see how Rand is seen through other character's eyes and that Matt has a POV chapters too may warm him up to me.  

 

Poor Rand.  I don't know whether its stress or is the madness finally getting to him?  I'm hoping he doesn't loose what he leaned in The Great Hunt of how to be a leader.  

 

Props to RJ for continuing the gag of Perrin and Rand thinking the other is better with girls three books on.

 

And another thing I noticed and maybe I'm wrong, but the person Perrin speaks to in the dream before Lanfear shows up (and I believe it was Lanfear he met) is Ba'alzamon because he acted as if his middle hurt, where Rand stabbed him.  The Great Hunt he is recovering from a serious burn injury where he got fried and now he's recovering from a stab wound.  I'm kinda hoping that this is going to be continuing gag of whenever he confronts Rand and is defeated, he suffers from the resulting wound in the next book.  

[jack of shadows]

the dragon reborn chapters are mostly told from egwene,perrin and mat point of view,

only a few chapters are told from rand's point of view,in my opinion,it was a mistake,

out of the first six books,the dragon reborn is my least favorite.

 

a word of advice,rand is a lot tougher than you think,randland is littered  with bodies

of people who had an  unfortunate tendency to underestimate him,just ask high lord turak.

Edited September 26, 2016 by jack of shadows

[mb]

from what I recall of this book, Rand's POVs in this book occur in between 2 other "main" characters; until the end of the book.

 

 

Sorry. Been sick with stomach flu. Haven't done much reading.

I think sickness would be a good time for reading; for anyone.

edit::  anyone able to read.

Edited September 28, 2016 by mb