[Basic]Spirited Away Mafia - Game over mafia wins

[Cory Caboose]

BFG doesn't enjoy being a wolf or lying to people so her commitment during a wolf game is a lot lower than her commitment is a villager.

 

AJ rightfully pointed out the vast majority of her interactions have been with either me or Chris - the two people she knows are most likely to lead a lynch on her. While she doesn't like lying, that doesn't mean she's bad at it. She knows who she has to sway and when.

[SiRReN]

 

 

Greetings friends I took a break from the thread to wash some dishes (and good thing too because I missed the rest of that argument that I probably wouldn't have been able to keep out of and possibly made worse) and think and I came up with something else

 

To anyone who thinks Cory could be mafia, consider this and give a cogent explanation if you would:

 

Why, if Cory is mafia and BFG is town, would Cory be the first to pull off her and say to give her a chance? BFG was eminently lynchable until Cory switched to Zalanna. A town BFG day 1 lynch would've been way more valuable to the mafia AND wouldn't have put Cory under any more suspicion than he's under already. The longer town BFG lives the greater opportunity she has to clear herself and become someone the mafia has to kill.

 

This isn't an argument that BFG is scum (those are separate) but I think it's a pretty good one that Cory isn't. If he's town he doesn't know BFG's alignment and had every reason to have doubts once she defended herself. His reasoning makes sense from that perspective. It doesn't make sense as scum unless he was sure I was suddenly going to change my mind which would have been impressive because I wasn't even sure what I was going to do.

 

As for the possibility that they're w/w - if so they've played a very strange game as I think both of them could have easily gotten away without making the other their only (in BFG's case) or one of their few (in Cory's case) primary targets. Especially since the end result of their antagonism is that it's very likely at least one of them is going to get resolved soon. So I don't think that's likely.

 

I think Cory is town, I don't think this could come from him as mafia. If I'm wrong he's thoroughly fooled me but at this point it's going to take some kind of incredible smoking gun to get me to change my mind on him. This is the wrong avenue to explore.

 

That's all.

 

There

 

PS This is what tunnelling is Sili - ignoring other players to focus only on your suspect

 

Course' I'm tunneling Cory, but I ain't  blind. I considered why he would switch off bfg myself; I concluded that he thought Zlanna was a bigger threat and the drawback to leading a town cfd was not apparent at the time.

 

There is also the matter that bfg and he are competent players. They can bus each other without lynching each other so long as they have a sufficiently vague poe by eod each day, as shown today.

 

If Cory was scum, he would not have lynched town!Zalanna over town!BFG. From what everyone says, town!BFG is a force to be reckoned with, able to see through the glamour that surrounds the mafia and lead lynches on them. So far this game town!Zalanna had shown that their availability is limited, they're playing catch up half the time and so not talking in real time with the rest of us, and from what I understood, not as able to demonstrate their towniness like BFG can.

 

So I don't know how you can think that Cory would have gone after Zalanna because they are a bigger threat than BFG. As scum, I think Cory would absolutely have taken the opportunity to lynch BFG, unless she's scum with him. As town, he lynched Zalanna because he began to feel better about BFG and wanted to give her more time.

[Cory Caboose]

To clarify - BFG knows that if either me or Chris believe she's a villager, we will go to hell and back to defend her.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

I'm not saying I don't have confidence in Hallia and I stated pretty clearly head to head I think Hallia looks better. I am just postulating in the event that I have to continue looking outside of my immediate two suspects.

 

If BFG isn't a wolf after how EOD went down and her returning without anything to offer than I am just completely lost this game. I need to ISO Seph to shore up my read there but there's not a lot of in-thread progression to his reads (I know I'm guilty of this too, btw) but I think the positive point I made about him earlier being consistent with his suspects irt Kat/Zalanna doesn't have as much weight because he seemed to have Kat as the more scummy but then always worked back to having Zalanna as the higher scum read in the end, which we know now was at the very least wrong if not intentional.

 

I get that you have questions and for a second there I started to get a little agitated by that but that's not really fair. EOD was hectic and I went with my gut based on the thread flow at the time and I turned out to be wrong. It happens, but it's not something I don't plan on recovering from.

It does happen, and I think I've made it very clear that I'm pretty okay with people being wrong. It's not the what - it's the why. Your why sounds good enough I'm not going to bother stressing over it when I have a pretty sexy pile of people who haven't played a really nice game.

Hey this reminds me, youve thought im a wolf to middling town at best in every game since I returned. What am I doing/not doing that keeps me from being tonwn.iye?

I don't known what you're defining as your return, but this is the first time I've been town since December. So, uh.... randing on my team?

[Darthe]

 

 

 

Greetings friends I took a break from the thread to wash some dishes (and good thing too because I missed the rest of that argument that I probably wouldn't have been able to keep out of and possibly made worse) and think and I came up with something else

 

To anyone who thinks Cory could be mafia, consider this and give a cogent explanation if you would:

 

Why, if Cory is mafia and BFG is town, would Cory be the first to pull off her and say to give her a chance? BFG was eminently lynchable until Cory switched to Zalanna. A town BFG day 1 lynch would've been way more valuable to the mafia AND wouldn't have put Cory under any more suspicion than he's under already. The longer town BFG lives the greater opportunity she has to clear herself and become someone the mafia has to kill.

 

This isn't an argument that BFG is scum (those are separate) but I think it's a pretty good one that Cory isn't. If he's town he doesn't know BFG's alignment and had every reason to have doubts once she defended herself. His reasoning makes sense from that perspective. It doesn't make sense as scum unless he was sure I was suddenly going to change my mind which would have been impressive because I wasn't even sure what I was going to do.

 

As for the possibility that they're w/w - if so they've played a very strange game as I think both of them could have easily gotten away without making the other their only (in BFG's case) or one of their few (in Cory's case) primary targets. Especially since the end result of their antagonism is that it's very likely at least one of them is going to get resolved soon. So I don't think that's likely.

 

I think Cory is town, I don't think this could come from him as mafia. If I'm wrong he's thoroughly fooled me but at this point it's going to take some kind of incredible smoking gun to get me to change my mind on him. This is the wrong avenue to explore.

 

That's all.

There

 

PS This is what tunnelling is Sili - ignoring other players to focus only on your suspect

Course' I'm tunneling Cory, but I ain't blind. I considered why he would switch off bfg myself; I concluded that he thought Zlanna was a bigger threat and the drawback to leading a town cfd was not apparent at the time.

 

There is also the matter that bfg and he are competent players. They can bus each other without lynching each other so long as they have a sufficiently vague poe by eod each day, as shown today.

If Cory was scum, he would not have lynched town!Zalanna over town!BFG. From what everyone says, town!BFG is a force to be reckoned with, able to see through the glamour that surrounds the mafia and lead lynches on them. So far this game town!Zalanna had shown that their availability is limited, they're playing catch up half the time and so not talking in real time with the rest of us, and from what I understood, not as able to demonstrate their towniness like BFG can.

 

So I don't know how you can think that Cory would have gone after Zalanna because they are a bigger threat than BFG. As scum, I think Cory would absolutely have taken the opportunity to lynch BFG, unless she's scum with him. As town, he lynched Zalanna because he began to feel better about BFG and wanted to give her more time.

I dont think the cory would lynch x vs y is a good argument for him being town, as wolves tend to be opportunistic and salanna had more support.

 

I do think cory doesnt let his emotions go this far as a wolf, and I also think that suspicion of him arent founded enough to lynch him yet. Silis giving the wrong things too much weight.

[Darthe]

 

 

 

I'm not saying I don't have confidence in Hallia and I stated pretty clearly head to head I think Hallia looks better. I am just postulating in the event that I have to continue looking outside of my immediate two suspects.

 

If BFG isn't a wolf after how EOD went down and her returning without anything to offer than I am just completely lost this game. I need to ISO Seph to shore up my read there but there's not a lot of in-thread progression to his reads (I know I'm guilty of this too, btw) but I think the positive point I made about him earlier being consistent with his suspects irt Kat/Zalanna doesn't have as much weight because he seemed to have Kat as the more scummy but then always worked back to having Zalanna as the higher scum read in the end, which we know now was at the very least wrong if not intentional.

 

I get that you have questions and for a second there I started to get a little agitated by that but that's not really fair. EOD was hectic and I went with my gut based on the thread flow at the time and I turned out to be wrong. It happens, but it's not something I don't plan on recovering from.

It does happen, and I think I've made it very clear that I'm pretty okay with people being wrong. It's not the what - it's the why. Your why sounds good enough I'm not going to bother stressing over it when I have a pretty sexy pile of people who haven't played a really nice game.

Hey this reminds me, youve thought im a wolf to middling town at best in every game since I returned. What am I doing/not doing that keeps me from being tonwn.iye?

I don't known what you're defining as your return, but this is the first time I've been town since December. So, uh.... randing on my team?

Damn :/ that makes this tough. But youve also not had me as town in some dead threads when I was town.

[Darthe]

Sili has been constantly throwing the Z lynch in my face and rubbing it in when I already clearly feel terrible about it. Far past the point of me being wrong - which happens in an educated guessing game - but to the point where the only answer is that I'm a wolf or I am a terrible player. I am neither. I make poor decisions sometimes, yes, but I'm resilient as hell that's always been my redeeming quality.

 

You and I have made more than a few out of the game snipes at each other. Some of that was totally me, brain comment etc. - and I felt bad and apologized. You about my personality, my attitude, the holier-than-thou quips and generally dripping disdain. I've read everything on your posts.

Fair. I'll leave it be, and when I offended Im sorry for that.

[Cory Caboose]

Seph's time in the game yesterday was really really bad. Both during EoD and his later short pop-in.

[Hallia]

Morning all

 

Derf, I dissected that post and you said nothing v.v

[Clovdyx]

And as it relates to Cory, I didn't defend him from casing and I don't think anyone else did, either. I invited you to push him.

 

What I did do is put you - and him (and sili) - in timeout from verbally bashing one another. We're not going to play that game. I don't care which one of you starts it. I ended it. Because I promise you, as someone who pretty much likes everybody here, I will go to war if the stupid fights continue, and I will win, and nobody will want to finish this game. If you think Im kidding, ask Cory about PSU.

 

as for your pushing of him, if you think his AtE makes him mafia, that's fine; there's a very realistic argument for him being more likelyto get emotional as mafia. I've pointed it out before. So if thats where your head is, cool, say it.

 

If you think his approach to resolving Zander and Alanna is likely to come from scum, cool. Again - say that.

 

You asked why I've never had you as a strong town read. It's because you insist on making the game toxic (which is 100% NOT solely your fault in ANY game), and forego just explaining your thoughts and how you got there. If you want me to feel comfortable with you because you can insult peopleand throw out fairly unsubstantiated reads that I may or may not agree with, I'm not sure what to say.

[Clovdyx]

That is far more words than I wanted to say on the subject, but I'm mostly okay with it.

[Hallia]

Well said Clov

[SiRReN]

And as it relates to Cory, I didn't defend him from casing and I don't think anyone else did, either. I invited you to push him.

 

What I did do is put you - and him (and sili) - in timeout from verbally bashing one another. We're not going to play that game. I don't care which one of you starts it. I ended it. Because I promise you, as someone who pretty much likes everybody here, I will go to war if the stupid fights continue, and I will win, and nobody will want to finish this game. If you think Im kidding, ask Cory about PSU.

 

as for your pushing of him, if you think his AtE makes him mafia, that's fine; there's a very realistic argument for him being more likelyto get emotional as mafia. I've pointed it out before. So if thats where your head is, cool, say it.

 

If you think his approach to resolving Zander and Alanna is likely to come from scum, cool. Again - say that.

 

You asked why I've never had you as a strong town read. It's because you insist on making the game toxic (which is 100% NOT solely your fault in ANY game), and forego just explaining your thoughts and how you got there. If you want me to feel comfortable with you because you can insult peopleand throw out fairly unsubstantiated reads that I may or may not agree with, I'm not sure what to say.

Your avatar absolutely makes me believe that if you had to end fights, you would do so quickly and efficiently.

[Clovdyx]

BFG doesn't enjoy being a wolf or lying to people so her commitment during a wolf game is a lot lower than her commitment is a villager.

 

AJ rightfully pointed out the vast majority of her interactions have been with either me or Chris - the two people she knows are most likely to lead a lynch on her. While she doesn't like lying, that doesn't mean she's bad at it. She knows who she has to sway and when.

Semi rightly, I would probably argue. Prior to last night, I don't know that she had said anything directed TO me this game besides "hi", which was one of the reasons I said I had similar concerns about her to you on whateverdaythatwasireallyhavenoideawhatdayitisanymore morning.

 

She's been uncertain of my alignment in games before. But she never had a problem coming to me to say it.

 

I can accept timezones and my laughably stupid schedule for some of it, but I expected at least some acknowledgment I exist, no matter how busy she is and how inconvenient my availability can be.

[Cory Caboose]

I thought it was kind of apparent she started talking to you more after I had sort of made my mind up. Though some of it might have just been availability.

 

I don't think that's intentional behavior on her part, but I think her mind went that way for a reason.

[Clovdyx]

I thought it was kind of apparent she started talking to you more after I had sort of made my mind up. Though some of it might have just been availability.

 

I don't think that's intentional behavior on her part, but I think her mind went that way for a reason.

I could very much be overlooking something, but off the top of my head, the only post she directed TO me before her half hour session last night was asking what I meant with the outplay thing.

 

And the only thing she had said ABOUT me was that she couldn't say one way or another without an iso before her gun to head post I took issue with.

[SiRReN]

The only time BFG addressed me is when I brought up the fact that she had been talking exclusively to Cory. She basically said she was in catch up and addressing concerns as she went, and that Cory was the person most asking her questions, but that's not a good reason, in my opinion. I think other people were raising concerns about/talking about her, and there's still commenting on other player's content not relating to her.

[Darthe]

Morning all

 

Derf, I dissected that post and you said nothing v.v

I appreciate it but I think we had some disconnect. I was curious if you had more when you initially posted about it because I wanted to see how much you thought of your read.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

 

Greetings friends I took a break from the thread to wash some dishes (and good thing too because I missed the rest of that argument that I probably wouldn't have been able to keep out of and possibly made worse) and think and I came up with something else

 

To anyone who thinks Cory could be mafia, consider this and give a cogent explanation if you would:

 

Why, if Cory is mafia and BFG is town, would Cory be the first to pull off her and say to give her a chance? BFG was eminently lynchable until Cory switched to Zalanna. A town BFG day 1 lynch would've been way more valuable to the mafia AND wouldn't have put Cory under any more suspicion than he's under already. The longer town BFG lives the greater opportunity she has to clear herself and become someone the mafia has to kill.

 

This isn't an argument that BFG is scum (those are separate) but I think it's a pretty good one that Cory isn't. If he's town he doesn't know BFG's alignment and had every reason to have doubts once she defended herself. His reasoning makes sense from that perspective. It doesn't make sense as scum unless he was sure I was suddenly going to change my mind which would have been impressive because I wasn't even sure what I was going to do.

 

As for the possibility that they're w/w - if so they've played a very strange game as I think both of them could have easily gotten away without making the other their only (in BFG's case) or one of their few (in Cory's case) primary targets. Especially since the end result of their antagonism is that it's very likely at least one of them is going to get resolved soon. So I don't think that's likely.

 

I think Cory is town, I don't think this could come from him as mafia. If I'm wrong he's thoroughly fooled me but at this point it's going to take some kind of incredible smoking gun to get me to change my mind on him. This is the wrong avenue to explore.

 

That's all.

 

There

 

PS This is what tunnelling is Sili - ignoring other players to focus only on your suspect

 

Course' I'm tunneling Cory, but I ain't  blind. I considered why he would switch off bfg myself; I concluded that he thought Zlanna was a bigger threat and the drawback to leading a town cfd was not apparent at the time.

 

There is also the matter that bfg and he are competent players. They can bus each other without lynching each other so long as they have a sufficiently vague poe by eod each day, as shown today.

 

If Cory was scum, he would not have lynched town!Zalanna over town!BFG. From what everyone says, town!BFG is a force to be reckoned with, able to see through the glamour that surrounds the mafia and lead lynches on them. So far this game town!Zalanna had shown that their availability is limited, they're playing catch up half the time and so not talking in real time with the rest of us, and from what I understood, not as able to demonstrate their towniness like BFG can.

 

So I don't know how you can think that Cory would have gone after Zalanna because they are a bigger threat than BFG. As scum, I think Cory would absolutely have taken the opportunity to lynch BFG, unless she's scum with him. As town, he lynched Zalanna because he began to feel better about BFG and wanted to give her more time.

 

i love how you're just assuming stuff.

[Darthe]

And as it relates to Cory, I didn't defend him from casing and I don't think anyone else did, either. I invited you to push him.

 

What I did do is put you - and him (and sili) - in timeout from verbally bashing one another. We're not going to play that game. I don't care which one of you starts it. I ended it. Because I promise you, as someone who pretty much likes everybody here, I will go to war if the stupid fights continue, and I will win, and nobody will want to finish this game. If you think Im kidding, ask Cory about PSU.

 

as for your pushing of him, if you think his AtE makes him mafia, that's fine; there's a very realistic argument for him being more likelyto get emotional as mafia. I've pointed it out before. So if thats where your head is, cool, say it.

 

If you think his approach to resolving Zander and Alanna is likely to come from scum, cool. Again - say that.

 

You asked why I've never had you as a strong town read. It's because you insist on making the game toxic (which is 100% NOT solely your fault in ANY game), and forego just explaining your thoughts and how you got there. If you want me to feel comfortable with you because you can insult peopleand throw out fairly unsubstantiated reads that I may or may not agree with, I'm not sure what to say.

I actually appreciate this post, it gives me a tangible idea of where and how to adapt. Thank you

[Clovdyx]

Cory, did you ever elaborate on why I'm in your lock list? I was completely null on your reads lizt from yesterday morning iirc and don't feel I was around nearly enough to have trended up that much.

[Cory Caboose]

I think one of my biggest prognosticators for eventually determining alignments is weighing who is "doing enough work to survive" and who is actually trying to work people out.

 

I know there are probably a couple of worlds where BFG is a villager who just can't get into the game and is very time-strapped, but I think it's very few, and I don't think any of them are this world.

 

My biggest mistake is I didn't get her enough time, which probably is ironic as an explanation for a wolfread, but one of the major things we forget is that wolves with pressure generally do weirder things to try and get out of it, including attempting to make plays that might seem villagery to a mind outside of the chaos.

 

I think I'd been a great deal more successful readnig her if I had let her go unsuspected and monitored her behavior for a longer time.

 

Then again: I felt my hand was forced early this game and while it might have been an overreaction to negative impetus all the times I say stuff like "I like to see what people do of their own volition and make reads on that" is not because I just like those words in that order, but because I have far better d1s when I can do as such.

[Clovdyx]

You're welcome, Darthe.

[Cory Caboose]

Cory, did you ever elaborate on why I'm in your lock list? I was completely null on your reads lizt from yesterday morning iirc and don't feel I was around nearly enough to have trended up that much.

 

Because I think you're very likely a villager and in the situation you aren't I really don't have the willpower or desire to combat you and I don't care if you win.

 

But moreso that I'm just heavily willing to trust my instinct outright. You've been salient and I thought you were a posturing a bit earlier in the game but that ended the more you read.

[SiRReN]

 

 

 

 

Greetings friends I took a break from the thread to wash some dishes (and good thing too because I missed the rest of that argument that I probably wouldn't have been able to keep out of and possibly made worse) and think and I came up with something else

 

To anyone who thinks Cory could be mafia, consider this and give a cogent explanation if you would:

 

Why, if Cory is mafia and BFG is town, would Cory be the first to pull off her and say to give her a chance? BFG was eminently lynchable until Cory switched to Zalanna. A town BFG day 1 lynch would've been way more valuable to the mafia AND wouldn't have put Cory under any more suspicion than he's under already. The longer town BFG lives the greater opportunity she has to clear herself and become someone the mafia has to kill.

 

This isn't an argument that BFG is scum (those are separate) but I think it's a pretty good one that Cory isn't. If he's town he doesn't know BFG's alignment and had every reason to have doubts once she defended herself. His reasoning makes sense from that perspective. It doesn't make sense as scum unless he was sure I was suddenly going to change my mind which would have been impressive because I wasn't even sure what I was going to do.

 

As for the possibility that they're w/w - if so they've played a very strange game as I think both of them could have easily gotten away without making the other their only (in BFG's case) or one of their few (in Cory's case) primary targets. Especially since the end result of their antagonism is that it's very likely at least one of them is going to get resolved soon. So I don't think that's likely.

 

I think Cory is town, I don't think this could come from him as mafia. If I'm wrong he's thoroughly fooled me but at this point it's going to take some kind of incredible smoking gun to get me to change my mind on him. This is the wrong avenue to explore.

 

That's all.

 

There

 

PS This is what tunnelling is Sili - ignoring other players to focus only on your suspect

 

Course' I'm tunneling Cory, but I ain't  blind. I considered why he would switch off bfg myself; I concluded that he thought Zlanna was a bigger threat and the drawback to leading a town cfd was not apparent at the time.

 

There is also the matter that bfg and he are competent players. They can bus each other without lynching each other so long as they have a sufficiently vague poe by eod each day, as shown today.

 

If Cory was scum, he would not have lynched town!Zalanna over town!BFG. From what everyone says, town!BFG is a force to be reckoned with, able to see through the glamour that surrounds the mafia and lead lynches on them. So far this game town!Zalanna had shown that their availability is limited, they're playing catch up half the time and so not talking in real time with the rest of us, and from what I understood, not as able to demonstrate their towniness like BFG can.

 

So I don't know how you can think that Cory would have gone after Zalanna because they are a bigger threat than BFG. As scum, I think Cory would absolutely have taken the opportunity to lynch BFG, unless she's scum with him. As town, he lynched Zalanna because he began to feel better about BFG and wanted to give her more time.

 

i love how you're just assuming stuff.

 

Aren't you also just assuming stuff? You concluded he thought Zalanna was a bigger threat - that's an assumption, no?