[Basic]Spirited Away Mafia - Game over mafia wins

Sili Quirrels · July 14, 2016

I don't really remember the game, so NO I DON'T

FINE

but i do, kind of.

i was talking myself up in that qt, and you and tom used that against me in the following games, or something. like...

like...

if you wanted to convince me you were town, doing something you did as a wolf was not the way. -.-

Sili Quirrels · July 14, 2016

Lainey iirc had more than subtle doubts

laine is awesome. why'd u kill her.

Cory Caboose · July 14, 2016

I have to get up in five hours and I desperately needed to sleep

I legitimately hate myself

Cory Caboose · July 14, 2016

Lainey iirc had more than subtle doubts

laine is awesome. why'd u kill her.

Because I made a bad decision, which happens sometimes in a mafia game

Regy Rusty · July 14, 2016

I have to get up in five hours and I desperately needed to sleep

I legitimately hate myself

*tosses that new overwatch character's sleep grenade or whatever at you*

Wildfire Sedai · July 14, 2016

Okay...now that I have more time, though I am still not fully read through (i've had a lot of interruptions today):

1. Sili Quirrels: town - he's not as aggressive as he was the last time we played together and he was mafia then. Also he has been itt more than in the other game, answering questions and making statements.

2. Wildfire Sedai (PrincessBFlea): town - tis me, I know I'm town.

3. Zalanna: town - hasn't been posting crazy amounts in thread (z) , they both have been answering questions afaict from what i have read so far

4. Andrej: town - has been asking questions and answering them when asked

5. Hallia: town/mafia as I was going to give a reason for her being town, it occured to me that she might just be on the edge of being mafia....low post count and not that much investigating going on.

6. Katiora: town/mafia - Kat was mafia in the last 2 games I was in with her, only 2 games to be exact. She has posted more here than she did then atp in game. However she "always" seems to get into a "ruckus" with someone during the game play, coincidence??

7. Cory: town/mafia - town because he takes the time to quote things and give explanations, mafia because of all the "ruckus" that was happening around him.

8. Clovdyx : mafia - am going to wait till after supper to do this one cause I can't remember off the top of my head why.

9. BFG: mafia - am going to wait till after supper to do this one cause I can't remember off the top of my head why.

10. Darthe: town/mafia - town because he is proactive in responding to posts about his alignment and asking/answering questions. Mafia because of low posts...when I was in HIS game he thanked me for being active but he's not active here...it just doesn't add up

11. Regy Rusty: town - asked/ answered questions in a good manner

12. Sirren: town - Kept her cool when she felt hurt and continued playing the game. Asks good questions and answers them.

13. Seph: town/mafia - I know I originally had him as town but then been thinking on it and he hasn't posted that much so thinking might be mafia "Lurking?" Just a thought....other than that though town for questions/answers.

RED: I apologize to Hallia. I read the thread in spurts and thought that she hadn't posted that much. It wasn't until after she took offense and I did an ISO of her that I realized my mistake. She has been one of hthe more numerous posters

GREEN: Clov: I got him mixed up with someone else. I don't feel the need to say who because it will bring up old hurts and I don't want to go there. new read: town for trying to keep the peace.

PURPLE: BFG: I am going to continue thinking mafia. It has been hard to do an ISO and keeping up with thread and yes I know it is way past supper time hallia... :rolleyes: here I am just going on gut and what other players have said throughout the thread. Yes I know it is lazy of me but I have had all sorts of interruptions irl wrt keeping up with the thread that I feel it is needed.

Sili Quirrels · July 14, 2016

:perrin:

Andrej · July 14, 2016

Sili fwiw I don't think there's a world where BFG doesn't get lynched tomorrow.

I think her exclusive focus on interacting with only Cory/Clov is gonna spew them clear if she's a wolf. Stop what you're doing and refocus elsewhere.

What you said earlier that Cory has only met his detractors with disdain is mostly true, but you're missing a very pivotal interaction with him I had this morning that resolved my worries. I think I have perhaps leveled the best argument for him being a wolf on a fundamental level and not once did he attack me for it. I approached him reasonably and he responded to me in kind. I get his frustration because I have been in a similar position and even though I wish he wouldn't shut down so easily I understand. Try some empathy on for size because right now it looks like you're sussing Cory more because the Zalanna lynch turned out wrong and you're looking to place blame for it. Hindsight bias is not your friend.

I still think you're a villager but you are becoming an active roadblock to a positive turn in this game. Don't miss your ticket on what I am personally going to try and make a glorious town sweep after a stressful D1.

Regy Rusty · July 14, 2016

I'm in bed on my goddamn phone checking in one last time to make sure everyone is cool. Nice post Andrej. You're alright

I believe we can pull this together next phase as well.

Now good night for real.

Clovdyx · July 14, 2016

I swear, one of these days, I'm going to see one of these stupid emo insult fights and lose my cool and that will probably be the last game anybody plays mafia on this site. Like I said before - if that's what you guys are going to do, leave the thread. Period.

That's for everyone.

Sili Quirrels · July 14, 2016

Sili fwiw I don't think there's a world where BFG doesn't get lynched tomorrow.

I think her exclusive focus on interacting with only Cory/Clov is gonna spew them clear if she's a wolf. Stop what you're doing and refocus elsewhere.

What you said earlier that Cory has only met his detractors with disdain is mostly true, but you're missing a very pivotal interaction with him I had this morning that resolved my worries. I think I have perhaps leveled the best argument for him being a wolf on a fundamental level and not once did he attack me for it. I approached him reasonably and he responded to me in kind. I get his frustration because I have been in a similar position and even though I wish he wouldn't shut down so easily I understand. Try some empathy on for size because right now it looks like you're sussing Cory more because the Zalanna lynch turned out wrong and you're looking to place blame for it. Hindsight bias is not your friend.

I still think you're a villager but you are becoming an active roadblock to a positive turn in this game. Don't miss your ticket on what I am personally going to try and make a glorious town sweep after a stressful D1.

Appreciate the response.

I have no problem with Cory reacting the way he did to Darthe and I this evening. Most of it goes back to how he reacted to ligher criticisms.

Cory's lead a few bad cfds while I've been there, so I know it happens. It's the flip at the end of the day that get's me.

I understand cory says he just forgot about all the good stuff Z did when he lead the cfd on them.

Cool.

I dunno how likely that is, but I've done it before, but Cory? Only if he was really weak on his reads.

Clovdyx · July 14, 2016

Okay...now that I have more time, though I am still not fully read through (i've had a lot of interruptions today):

1. Sili Quirrels: town - he's not as aggressive as he was the last time we played together and he was mafia then. Also he has been itt more than in the other game, answering questions and making statements.

2. Wildfire Sedai (PrincessBFlea): town - tis me, I know I'm town.

3. Zalanna: town - hasn't been posting crazy amounts in thread (z) , they both have been answering questions afaict from what i have read so far

4. Andrej: town - has been asking questions and answering them when asked

5. Hallia: town/mafia as I was going to give a reason for her being town, it occured to me that she might just be on the edge of being mafia....low post count and not that much investigating going on.

6. Katiora: town/mafia - Kat was mafia in the last 2 games I was in with her, only 2 games to be exact. She has posted more here than she did then atp in game. However she "always" seems to get into a "ruckus" with someone during the game play, coincidence??

7. Cory: town/mafia - town because he takes the time to quote things and give explanations, mafia because of all the "ruckus" that was happening around him.

8. Clovdyx : mafia - am going to wait till after supper to do this one cause I can't remember off the top of my head why.

9. BFG: mafia - am going to wait till after supper to do this one cause I can't remember off the top of my head why.

10. Darthe: town/mafia - town because he is proactive in responding to posts about his alignment and asking/answering questions. Mafia because of low posts...when I was in HIS game he thanked me for being active but he's not active here...it just doesn't add up

11. Regy Rusty: town - asked/ answered questions in a good manner

12. Sirren: town - Kept her cool when she felt hurt and continued playing the game. Asks good questions and answers them.

13. Seph: town/mafia - I know I originally had him as town but then been thinking on it and he hasn't posted that much so thinking might be mafia "Lurking?" Just a thought....other than that though town for questions/answers.

RED: I apologize to Hallia. I read the thread in spurts and thought that she hadn't posted that much. It wasn't until after she took offense and I did an ISO of her that I realized my mistake. She has been one of hthe more numerous posters

GREEN: Clov: I got him mixed up with someone else. I don't feel the need to say who because it will bring up old hurts and I don't want to go there. new read: town for trying to keep the peace.

PURPLE: BFG: I am going to continue thinking mafia. It has been hard to do an ISO and keeping up with thread and yes I know it is way past supper time hallia... here I am just going on gut and what other players have said throughout the thread. Yes I know it is lazy of me but I have had all sorts of interruptions irl wrt keeping up with the thread that I feel it is needed.

I think you do need to say who, actually. Because between Regy/Sirren/Hallia/me, that's four very uninspiring (and at least three of them, and I strongly would guess all of them, are wrong) reads with very uninspiring reasons.

Townreading me for trying to keep the peace is a nice sentiment, but bad play, and easily comes from knowing I'm town.

Sili Quirrels · July 14, 2016

I still think you're a villager but you are becoming an active roadblock to a positive turn in this game.

In general, if you want me to be a positive force, best not to assume that I'm a 'roadblock'. Fwiw.

Especially when I'm doing my best not to be negative.

Andrej · July 14, 2016

Right now I'm looking to go BFG then Seph.

Depending on Seph that will affect my read on Kat. Early on he made a statement that he thought Kat/Zalanna looked like w/v but he wasn't sure which was what. Clov attacked it pretty hard and I don't really remember the resolution to it. Zalanna, we know now, but I'm not sure Seph has the gonads as a wolf to pit two villagers against each other like that out of the gate.

Kat independently is on a timer for me. I thought her telling Laine to buzz off early on for not having any reads was more villagery than not but now D1 is over so the excuse of being had at D1 is no longer valid. She's later in my POE fwiw.

Wildfire is Dawnflower 2.0 and atp I think Hallia's alignment hinges on hers. Like I think Hallia's intrinsic reaction to Wildfire's bad read on her seems natural, but she's also not a hard target to attack whatsoever. In comparison I'm still giving Hallia the nod in a head to head decision.

Darthe/Sili would be my last two ~possibilities but I doubt it ever comes to that point if we resolve within this five correctly.

Andrej · July 14, 2016

Sili it sounds like you're not allowing for imperfections to Cory's game and i don't think that's very fair.

Like I said earlier, the transition from BFG to Zalanna being the lead wagon felt good. It felt like it was meant to be. I mean it was me, Cory and the damn Masons that made it happen. I was very confident in the turn around.

Like yeah, it sucks we were wrong and I credit BFG for showing up at the right time to save herself but it is what it is. This pivotal piece I think you're missing is that they were gone when they needed to be here the most, like I said earlier. There was reasonably doubt on their slot already and I know Laine at least said she'd be gone but none of that meant they were villagers. Don't use the fact they were to influence the organic way that turn around came.

Clovdyx · July 14, 2016

As far as I know there's no reason anyone's clearing Cory besides AtE and confidence, so I can't stop being suspicious of him. I'm biologically incapable, but if I am wrong I'd like someone to tell me why.

My reasons are straightforward so I will pontificate them. He flipped his read on Zander close to or at eod when Zander and Laine were afk, and Laine had said she'd be afk. His rational was merely that they were afk and one had promised reads. He's been erratic most of the game, often saying he won't contribute anymore one moment and 4 or 5 minutes later saying that he would in fact contribute. He dismisses all detractors without exception, and very rarely if ever helps the detractors (most of whom seem to be village fwiw) to understand him better, nor does he attempt to understand why his detractors are critical of him. When he pushed Z, BFG, and Darthe, he did not adequately justify his reads with the exception of BFG whose read upon he explained when asked. When he was about to tdom Zander, he seemed excited, but when I chimed in he quickly abandoned the pursuit and shifted his reads around, to confuse people I suspect. He did it again after the lynch. And I don't think there's been any major change outside his townreads in any of his read lists.

Besides these points, I don't like how Cory teased his self-clearing method, waited for a response, and came up with something that he would have said right away as a villager. His personal argument for why he's town isn't particularly dirty, but it assumes two things. First, BFG get's upset when he tries to manipulate her, and second that bfg is in fact town. Considering that Cory does not believe bfg is town, I don't fathom why he felt this argument would clear him.

If you disagree with me for some reason, perhaps there's something deeper here that i'm not realizing, you should probably tell me about it.

Regarding his "clear" - I think it's a little cheap. I don't think it's against the spirit of the game, and certainly isn't manipulation of the rules, but it's kind of ticky tacky. I don't think he would necessarily play it that way right off the bat as either alignment, so I'm not going to say it's townie or scummy.

You're right about the first assumption, and I think that's a pretty reasonable thought. Unless you're prepared to argue BFG (or anybody, really) enjoys being manipulated and deceived, especially emotionally, I'm not sure what you're getting at there. As for the second...it assumes she's town if you're coming from the perspective that he's mafia, which is true; Cory/BFG are never scummates this game.

So rule out that, and the possibilities from his POV are:

Cory town, BFG unknown (town)

Cory town, BFG unknown (mafia)

Cory mafia, BFG town

If you buy his argument that mafia!Cory isn't going to treat town!BFG that way again, your only option is to assume he did it as town. Therefore, for anybody that believes the underlined, the argument absolutely clears him.

Clovdyx · July 14, 2016

Right now I'm looking to go BFG then Seph.

Depending on Seph that will affect my read on Kat. Early on he made a statement that he thought Kat/Zalanna looked like w/v but he wasn't sure which was what. Clov attacked it pretty hard and I don't really remember the resolution to it. Zalanna, we know now, but I'm not sure Seph has the gonads as a wolf to pit two villagers against each other like that out of the gate.

Kat independently is on a timer for me. I thought her telling Laine to buzz off early on for not having any reads was more villagery than not but now D1 is over so the excuse of being had at D1 is no longer valid. She's later in my POE fwiw.

Wildfire is Dawnflower 2.0 and atp I think Hallia's alignment hinges on hers. Like I think Hallia's intrinsic reaction to Wildfire's bad read on her seems natural, but she's also not a hard target to attack whatsoever. In comparison I'm still giving Hallia the nod in a head to head decision.

Darthe/Sili would be my last two ~possibilities but I doubt it ever comes to that point if we resolve within this five correctly.

Red - not exactly what happened. Seph made a post saying they just weren't T/T and he began to rethink his Zalanna mafia read, based on Kat being scummy. I pointed out that makes sense if you rule out the possibility of M/M, but he clearly wasn't doing that. And if I remember correctly, I never got an answer that satisfied me.

Bold - I don't understand this thought. Like you said, it was a very natural reaction. There's a chance that Wildfire is town and just produced an awful reads list, but I don't see how you can knock Hallia for that. Talk me through it?

Sili Quirrels · July 14, 2016

Don't use the fact they were [afk] to influence the organic way that turn around came.

I believe it was organic to anyone who was vulnerable to rhetoric, or had strong feelings about Z.

Cory's argument for voting Z can be boiled down to the misconception Zander's absence meant he was avoiding the thread. Do you think town Cory often makes that mistake?

Andrej · July 14, 2016

I have certainly seen him make that argument before as town, on me in particular, so yes I think it's a naturally occurring thought he could've had.

Sili Quirrels · July 14, 2016

I have certainly seen him make that argument before as town, on me in particular, so yes I think it's a naturally occurring thought he could've had.

You're right he probably does make that argument time to time when he has nothing else to go on.

Clovdyx · July 14, 2016

AJ, why did you start the counterwagon the way you did? Because I'm looking at things again, and that might be the ONE thing this game you've done that I can't wrap my head around. You said you weren't going to tinfoil on me, and I'm trying to give you the same courtesy, but without having the benefit of actually having been in the thread when it all went down...that is a really strange spot.

Sili Quirrels · July 14, 2016

As far as I know there's no reason anyone's clearing Cory besides AtE and confidence, so I can't stop being suspicious of him. I'm biologically incapable, but if I am wrong I'd like someone to tell me why.

My reasons are straightforward so I will pontificate them. He flipped his read on Zander close to or at eod when Zander and Laine were afk, and Laine had said she'd be afk. His rational was merely that they were afk and one had promised reads. He's been erratic most of the game, often saying he won't contribute anymore one moment and 4 or 5 minutes later saying that he would in fact contribute. He dismisses all detractors without exception, and very rarely if ever helps the detractors (most of whom seem to be village fwiw) to understand him better, nor does he attempt to understand why his detractors are critical of him. When he pushed Z, BFG, and Darthe, he did not adequately justify his reads with the exception of BFG whose read upon he explained when asked. When he was about to tdom Zander, he seemed excited, but when I chimed in he quickly abandoned the pursuit and shifted his reads around, to confuse people I suspect. He did it again after the lynch. And I don't think there's been any major change outside his townreads in any of his read lists.

Besides these points, I don't like how Cory teased his self-clearing method, waited for a response, and came up with something that he would have said right away as a villager. His personal argument for why he's town isn't particularly dirty, but it assumes two things. First, BFG get's upset when he tries to manipulate her, and second that bfg is in fact town. Considering that Cory does not believe bfg is town, I don't fathom why he felt this argument would clear him.

If you disagree with me for some reason, perhaps there's something deeper here that i'm not realizing, you should probably tell me about it.

Regarding his "clear" - I think it's a little cheap. I don't think it's against the spirit of the game, and certainly isn't manipulation of the rules, but it's kind of ticky tacky. I don't think he would necessarily play it that way right off the bat as either alignment, so I'm not going to say it's townie or scummy.

You're right about the first assumption, and I think that's a pretty reasonable thought. Unless you're prepared to argue BFG (or anybody, really) enjoys being manipulated and deceived, especially emotionally, I'm not sure what you're getting at there. As for the second...it assumes she's town if you're coming from the perspective that he's mafia, which is true; Cory/BFG are never scummates this game.

So rule out that, and the possibilities from his POV are:

Cory town, BFG unknown (town)

Cory town, BFG unknown (mafia)

Cory mafia, BFG town

If you buy his argument that mafia!Cory isn't going to treat town!BFG that way again, your only option is to assume he did it as town. Therefore, for anybody that believes the underlined, the argument absolutely clears him.

I dunno what you mean when you say first assumption, but when I say 'upset' I mean more than ruffled.

Something Cory might really feel bad about.

Andrej · July 14, 2016

Red - not exactly what happened. Seph made a post saying they just weren't T/T and he began to rethink his Zalanna mafia read, based on Kat being scummy. I pointed out that makes sense if you rule out the possibility of M/M, but he clearly wasn't doing that. And if I remember correctly, I never got an answer that satisfied me.

Bold - I don't understand this thought. Like you said, it was a very natural reaction. There's a chance that Wildfire is town and just produced an awful reads list, but I don't see how you can knock Hallia for that. Talk me through it?

You're right. I remember now your issue was why he didn't consider m/m. Fwiw I don't think me saying he said they weren't t/t is that different than from saying t/w but whatever. Something I'll need to check on was the progression of his Kat read from there.

My knock on Hallia is how she is honing in on Wildfire if it turns out she is town. Like I think Hallia's reaction looks good on its face but I also don't think it would be very hard for her to attack either. Again, this is me spitballing and making contingency plans - big picture stuff. Hallia has considerable more town equity than Wildfire atp but that doesn't make it necessarily true. Know what I mean?

Clovdyx · July 14, 2016

I dunno what you mean when you say first assumption, but when I say 'upset' I mean more than ruffled.

Something Cory might really feel bad about.

Dwut.

You said his argument assumes two things. By first assumption..I mean... the first of those two things.

Sili Quirrels · July 14, 2016

I dunno what you mean when you say first assumption, but when I say 'upset' I mean more than ruffled.

Something Cory might really feel bad about.

Dwut.

You said his argument assumes two things. By first assumption..I mean... the first of those two things.

Huh. Okay.

I'm a little too tired to bold the part that made me confused, and it doesn't matter alas. Thanks for clarifying.

[Basic]Spirited Away Mafia - Game over mafia wins

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