Beyond the Wall - Game Thread - GAME OVER

[Andrej]

@Celeste - what posts of Snow's made you think he was copying other people?

 

Tbh you should probably claim atp. Deadline is in about 4.5 hours

[Andrej]

I'm starting to worry a little that there has been no counter wagon, like ever, and no real argument against lynching Zander/Celeste other than dice. It almost feels...easy.

Voting activity has been pretty low. It's mostly been the same people talking, but this thought crossed my mind too.

[Celeste]

I'm going to re-explain my read on John, I find him to be a very analytical player from the ragnorak game and the time I replaced him. As I was catching up it looked like agreeing with his earlier talks but I forget that he had this one post despite the agreeing that caught my eye.

Somehow I've read through this whole thread twice and absorbed nothing.

 

Here goes round 3.

 

I found it fishy and then I connected it mostly with agreements of mechanical things early which is a thing scum do if they have trouble posting. His lack of scum hunting while reading this thread 3 times already is kind of alarming.

[Wildfire Sedai]

 

I'm starting to worry a little that there has been no counter wagon, like ever, and no real argument against lynching Zander/Celeste other than dice. It almost feels...easy.

Voting activity has been pretty low. It's mostly been the same people talking, but this thought crossed my mind too.

 

Can you two please elaborate....why does this concern you?  In both of my games it has been this way and both on zander or wait was it hallia d1 and zander nk'd...but anyway it was all on one person....is there usually a difference??

[SiRReN]

Open question to everyone:

 

When you are scum, how willing are you to bus your teammates? If your teammates bussed you, how would you react?

If a scummate has the most lynch votes, how hard will you fight to save them? If they are absent, what would you do? 

 

I'll answer this too.

 

When I'm scum, I try not to bus my teammates. When I'm part of a team I really want to win as a team. On the other hand though, if my teammates bussed me I've been okay with it, and in the past even managed to squeeze myself and a teammate further through the game by encouraging them to bus me and reveal information about my powers under the guise of having seen them. In all circumstances though, my teammates and I had heavily discussed it and we all agreed that bussing me was the only option. 

 

If my scummate has the most votes, I generally try to guide the conversation away but ultimately let my partner defend themselves. If they're absent, I'd try to turn their flip to my benefit but ultimately let them get lynched.

[SiRReN]

 

 

I'm starting to worry a little that there has been no counter wagon, like ever, and no real argument against lynching Zander/Celeste other than dice. It almost feels...easy.

Voting activity has been pretty low. It's mostly been the same people talking, but this thought crossed my mind too.

 

Can you two please elaborate....why does this concern you?  In both of my games it has been this way and both on zander or wait was it hallia d1 and zander nk'd...but anyway it was all on one person....is there usually a difference??

 

Generally if scum is leading the lynch you'd think their teammates would defend them and try to guide the lynch elsewhere. It's why I'm a little suspicious of Dice. However, no counter lynches are sticking. That means one of two things. A) Zander is scum and his teammates are absent or unsuccessful in swaying the vote. B) Zander is town and scum is either voting for him or letting town mislynch without doing anything to stop it.

[Celeste]

Open question to everyone:

 

When you are scum, how willing are you to bus your teammates? If your teammates bussed you, how would you react?

If a scummate has the most lynch votes, how hard will you fight to save them? If they are absent, what would you do? 

 

I'll answer this too.

 

When I'm scum, I try not to bus my teammates. When I'm part of a team I really want to win as a team. On the other hand though, if my teammates bussed me I've been okay with it, and in the past even managed to squeeze myself and a teammate further through the game by encouraging them to bus me and reveal information about my powers under the guise of having seen them. In all circumstances though, my teammates and I had heavily discussed it and we all agreed that bussing me was the only option. 

 

If my scummate has the most votes, I generally try to guide the conversation away but ultimately let my partner defend themselves. If they're absent, I'd try to turn their flip to my benefit but ultimately let them get lynched.

I don't like bussing at all and will only do it if it's the last option available. I would be blunt and answer them. Not very hard as they probably have the means to get themselves out of it. Hmm idk about absent since I haven't dealt with it yet.

[SiRReN]

Thanks for answering Celeste :)

[Lenlo]

I typically dont bus, because I like going for a sweep. Ill put a teammate in my wolf reads, or somewhere down there, to spread them out but thats the extent of it. If my team tried to bus me, I wouldnt complain. Id fight it, and try to live as long as possible, but mostly id try to make it a good bus so my teammate gets alot of brownie points out of it.

 

As for lynching teammates, im gonna call them out as I would if I was town. Ill try to help them, but most of the time the onus is on them to not need the help in the first place.

[Andrej]

I'm going to re-explain my read on John, I find him to be a very analytical player from the ragnorak game and the time I replaced him. As I was catching up it looked like agreeing with his earlier talks but I forget that he had this one post despite the agreeing that caught my eye.

 

Somehow I've read through this whole thread twice and absorbed nothing.

 

Here goes round 3.

 

I found it fishy and then I connected it mostly with agreements of mechanical things early which is a thing scum do if they have trouble posting. His lack of scum hunting while reading this thread 3 times already is kind of alarming.

What agreements are you referring to though? Because I don't see any and that was one of the major points to your vote. I agree with you about him being more analytical, and I have already said my piece about the mechanics talk and lack of other reads. But I need you to clarify what you mean when you keep talking about his agreements. With who? Over what?

[Celeste]

I'm not going to let myself be lynched for just replacing in to a slot everyone thinks is scum because I'm a naturally scummy player. I'm pissed and going to take a bit of a break now.

[PrincessBFlea]

I don't really have much of anything to add to the argument to vote Zander/Celeste. I already stated that Zander's posting style was clogging up the thread and distracting from scum hunting, and I agree with AJ that Celeste's vote on JS just seems like a way to appear participatory while she catches up, which is something I think a player would do when thrust into a scum slot via replacement (especially when that slot is up for lynch). 

 

I understand what Celeste said now about not wanting to post questions to her nulls before they'd had a chance to come online as she didn't want the questions lost, but I don't see why that would prevent her from posting a read on her nulls until she'd been asked to do so. 

 

I really don't see myself voting anywhere else at this point, the counterwagon of Princess is bad, especially because the one thing I've noticed is different between her scum and town games has already surfaced in favor of her being town. JS as an alternative also doesn't sit right with me, as he's null to me. Dice's dogged defense of Zander has me leery, but I'm also unwilling to contemplate lynching him at this moment. Princess is scum reading Kat, so I assume she is the alternative Princess is proposing, but her posts are not something that seemed scummy to me at the time they were made. She explained her tinfoil comment to my satisfaction.

 

I don't remember if there's vote anywhere else except for the 2(?) on me.

 

I'll still wait before voting only because Princess wants the opportunity to look elsewhere, but as of right now, consider my vote on Celeste.

...no I'm not? It's a small detail, but an important one imo-- I'm null-to scum lean reading her. :) Just wanted to clarify!

 

@Hallia, why do you suddenly think I'm scum? Because you saw me as scum... once? And just now found out about it? Please note the other comments SiRReN has made about my game play since if that is the only reason, or point out what I've done that looks scummy, because otherwise it seems like a sheep on Sili.

 

Quick pop-in so I don't get too far behind, back to work.

 

@AJ, thanks for clarifying! I see what you mean now! 

[keyholder21]

 

 

I'm starting to worry a little that there has been no counter wagon, like ever, and no real argument against lynching Zander/Celeste other than dice. It almost feels...easy.

Voting activity has been pretty low. It's mostly been the same people talking, but this thought crossed my mind too.

Can you two please elaborate....why does this concern you? In both of my games it has been this way and both on zander or wait was it hallia d1 and zander nk'd...but anyway it was all on one person....is there usually a difference??

Because it's often an indicator that someone is town and scum is content to let them hang.

[Andrej]

I typically don't like to bus but that has burned me in the past because there are times I stick my neck out a little too far.

 

Each game is different. I've never really been bussed by my team. Reciprocating scum reads are definitely a thing though. If my teammate is posting really townie like I'll town read them. If they're middling I will either stick them in my null pile or list them as a lesser suspect and try to work to get other people lynched first.

[Andrej]

Another thing I like to do is bread crumb connections of my partners with others in the event they get lynched so I can link their flip with a townie who handled them softly/defended them or whatever.

[PrincessBFlea]

I've only scummed one, so no idea if I would bus. I don't like the idea of it, I wouldn't feel comfortable with it :/  KthxBai!

[PrincessBFlea]

*once

[Andrej]

I'm not going to let myself be lynched for just replacing in to a slot everyone thinks is scum because I'm a naturally scummy player. I'm pissed and going to take a bit of a break now.

:-/

 

I'm trying to work with you here in case there's just a misunderstanding but I have a really hard time reconciling what you said about John because to me it doesn't look true.

 

Like I said, you're L-2 now with only a few hours left. You should consider claiming.

[Andrej]

Fwiw I agree with Sirren's response to Wildfire. It can be either option and we won't really know until we get more information and the big picture becomes more clear.

[SiRReN]

 

I don't really have much of anything to add to the argument to vote Zander/Celeste. I already stated that Zander's posting style was clogging up the thread and distracting from scum hunting, and I agree with AJ that Celeste's vote on JS just seems like a way to appear participatory while she catches up, which is something I think a player would do when thrust into a scum slot via replacement (especially when that slot is up for lynch). 

 

I understand what Celeste said now about not wanting to post questions to her nulls before they'd had a chance to come online as she didn't want the questions lost, but I don't see why that would prevent her from posting a read on her nulls until she'd been asked to do so. 

 

I really don't see myself voting anywhere else at this point, the counterwagon of Princess is bad, especially because the one thing I've noticed is different between her scum and town games has already surfaced in favor of her being town. JS as an alternative also doesn't sit right with me, as he's null to me. Dice's dogged defense of Zander has me leery, but I'm also unwilling to contemplate lynching him at this moment. Princess is scum reading Kat, so I assume she is the alternative Princess is proposing, but her posts are not something that seemed scummy to me at the time they were made. She explained her tinfoil comment to my satisfaction.

 

I don't remember if there's vote anywhere else except for the 2(?) on me.

 

I'll still wait before voting only because Princess wants the opportunity to look elsewhere, but as of right now, consider my vote on Celeste.

...no I'm not? It's a small detail, but an important one imo-- I'm null-to scum lean reading her. :) Just wanted to clarify!

 

@Hallia, why do you suddenly think I'm scum? Because you saw me as scum... once? And just now found out about it? Please note the other comments SiRReN has made about my game play since if that is the only reason, or point out what I've done that looks scummy, because otherwise it seems like a sheep on Sili.

 

Quick pop-in so I don't get too far behind, back to work.

 

@AJ, thanks for clarifying! I see what you mean now! 

 

You're right, sorry :) I just assumed that was the alternative you were suggesting because she's the only one (so far) that you've leaned scum at all, and so my brain said "durp must mean she's scum to Princess"

[John Snow]

 

 

It kind of just reeks a bit of try hard mafia or going deep which I have trouble with finding tone wise. I have played with him when I just started DM. Noted but I think this is not town Snow so far.

Ok, I thought maybe you had some other experience off-site or something.  In TUS John was a wolf, like you and everybody else.  In Ragnarok he was a villager, and you were a wolf hydra with Lenny and if my memory from ISOing it in WoW is at all accurate you were highly inactive in that game and your partner mostly carried the slot.

 

Low volume wolf playing in an unfamiliar environment a year ago, I'm kind of surprised that you'd remember any meta at all.

 

Like I was a wolf in my first VS game and I couldn't even tell you who half of the roster was let alone recall meta on them.

 

Was there something special about John in Ragnarok that made him really stand out to you?

He was the one who pushed for me/Lenny's lynch and I remember fairly well that he was scum hunting. I also remember his posts from when I replaced in for him during God vs Demons. He's someone I would like to be town with and I'm not getting that here. Also hi Shad!

 

 

A) I wasn't in WoW

B) I don't even remember GvD tbh

C) I don't think you've seen me scum (excluding TUS which was just a weird game) You can't argue meta on me as scum if you don't know how I play as scum.

[Andrej]

I'm leaving soon to go to a BBQ.

 

I'll pop in and out throughout the rest of the afternoon leading up to DL.

[John Snow]

Lenlo

john snow

sirren

Shad

Wildfire Sedai

princessBFlea

Andrej

 

 

Hallia
Keyholder/bfg
punished balrog
Calder
Sooh
katiora

 

sili

Zander Celeste

dicetosser1

 

My current reads. I'll try to case the scumreads before DL, but I've got stuff to do. 

[keyholder21]

Open question to everyone:

 

When you are scum, how willing are you to bus your teammates? If your teammates bussed you, how would you react?

If a scummate has the most lynch votes, how hard will you fight to save them? If they are absent, what would you do?

 

I'll answer this too.

 

When I'm scum, I try not to bus my teammates. When I'm part of a team I really want to win as a team. On the other hand though, if my teammates bussed me I've been okay with it, and in the past even managed to squeeze myself and a teammate further through the game by encouraging them to bus me and reveal information about my powers under the guise of having seen them. In all circumstances though, my teammates and I had heavily discussed it and we all agreed that bussing me was the only option.

 

If my scummate has the most votes, I generally try to guide the conversation away but ultimately let my partner defend themselves. If they're absent, I'd try to turn their flip to my benefit but ultimately let them get lynched.

I prefer not to bus, but I have done it before. I usually want the whole team to make it if possible, but sometimes the situation warrants it.

 

Most if the time I'm fine with it if my team decides to bus me. If they do, it's probably for good reason lol. (with the exception of Red's JP game) Most of the time I'll help them come up with a plan in QT before we actually do it.

 

If my scummate has the most votes, I usually ask them if they want help and if they do, then I'll try to present a new person of interest, or bring up something from earlier in the game to stop momentum on my teammate.

 

If they are absent and there is not another good opportunity, I will usually just vote for them.

[keyholder21]

 

 

 

I'm starting to worry a little that there has been no counter wagon, like ever, and no real argument against lynching Zander/Celeste other than dice. It almost feels...easy.

Voting activity has been pretty low. It's mostly been the same people talking, but this thought crossed my mind too.

Can you two please elaborate....why does this concern you? In both of my games it has been this way and both on zander or wait was it hallia d1 and zander nk'd...but anyway it was all on one person....is there usually a difference??

Generally if scum is leading the lynch you'd think their teammates would defend them and try to guide the lynch elsewhere. It's why I'm a little suspicious of Dice. However, no counter lynches are sticking. That means one of two things. A) Zander is scum and his teammates are absent or unsuccessful in swaying the vote. B) Zander is town and scum is either voting for him or letting town mislynch without doing anything to stop it.

True, A is also possible.