[Basic] I <3 the 90's Mafia: Music Edition - TOWN WINS!

[Lenlo]

 

 

i didn't abuse him. i just ignored a request. wtf. that's hardly equivalent.

 

i also laid it out why i thought he was a wolf. you don't even do that for me most of the time. this really isn't comparable at all derf.

You laid it out after I ripped it out of you one agonized post at a time.

 

Also again your "reasons im a wolf" Are weak and not substantive at all.

 

 

It was early game. Jeezu I didn't go looking for a conflict. I laid it out as best I could and you for some reason wanted more, and I explained it again and again and again, and if you took that as a slight that is entirely on you.

 

Im sorry I pushed you to explain your reason for voting someone, then found that reason to be bad? I never said it was a slight. Im disagreeing that you "abused" me, if anything I gave right back. 

 

Im just saying your case is crap.

[seph]

 

 

I can actually see seph/Zander now, which means Niniel is probably town

you probably shouldn't link people like this before there is a actual flip, like the bold in particular. All it is going to do is skew your reads based off information you do not have. I should know I did this a few games ago and it screwed everything up.

it is interesting to note that you think niniel is probably town based off me and zanders play, but not niniels

Its townie as hell though

 

were you in that game with me?

[Sili Quirrels]

meh.

[Darthe]

I don't know man, vague sentence

[Sili Quirrels]

okay i peace now glgl.

[Darthe]

Meh

[seph]

Im confused on how you town read someone off of two alignments you actually have no idea about.
seems like she is trying to find a reason to actually read niniel town.

[wish-tree]

Now that I've actually read seph's earlier catch up post for his thoughts about Sili, which I'm assuming is this one here:

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-1/?view=findpost&p=3663460

 

Firstly, after lightly sussing Zander about his questions, and making absolutely no reference to how his read of Zander is changing, seph compliments Zander on his post pushing the same thing that Lenlo was saying about seph, which was that reading Sili as the scummiest player and also reading him as town was exactly a contradiction. Why is Zander awarded good behavior points for 'trying to make more of it than it is', while Lenlo, saying a similar thing, is not?

 

See below:

 

"I don't think this is a bad post from zander tbh, he is trying to make more of it than it is but the two sentences are a obvious contradiction."

 

Next, delving into seph's catchup thing on Sili:

"my sili read for anyone still confused.
Sili has done multiple things this game I kinda tie towards being mafia, which why in my notes he is the scummiest player. Now from my experience with sili I know he plays different but I usually expect a aggressive sili which you should be able to tell from my earlier interaction with him.

me and sili generally headbutt in most games we are in together, but it is usually when he is town and me as either alignment. The reason I have him as slight town despite my notes is simply his interaction with me and clov."

 

seph is saying here that Sili is being very very scummy but because Sili plays differently from most people, it should be okay - but wait, seph expects him to be aggressive. Okay, yeah, sili and seph fight a lot, but that's usually when he's town, regardless of seph's alignment. 

 

Do you see the problem here? This is a forced read, making a conclusion before making the actual work or thought process which allowed you to arrive at the conclusion. So in most cases when sili/seph clash, seph is saying that - sili is town. Seph isn't automatically assuming that he's town in this case, but instead, assuming that Sili is. 

 

How can you, as town, ever make that assumption that you are something you are not? The only info you have is your role from the mod, that should be your starting assumption.

 

The interaction with seph/clov seem genuine, how so? 

"His responses seem genuine. I'll try to explain a bit more here.
For those who read the games, there are 2 in particular. American mafia- which if you haven't read don't... cause lol me.... and then star wars when him and yates claimed masons. When scum, and sili is confronted and pushed fairly hard he gets tense, especially when he thinks he has been caught. His posts ring extremely fake. However this game when responding to me/clov even lenlo though there wasn't a good argument imo. there he believes what he is saying and I think this is one of sili's most important town traits.

I also saw him say that he thinks that volume is insulting, but it isn't ment to be that way. It is just how it is, and besides you can always change it yourself bud :)

but this is why I posted how I did regarding him and why I have him where I put him."
 

Sili's posts are towny, yes, but how is responding to you/clov and lenlo when there "wasn't a good argument" something that is productive and helpful for town? That's a myopic view, as if you KNEW that Sili had to be town and are forcing things to fit. Next, you're using a lack of tenseness, fakeness, and the presence of belief in his posts and his post volume to town read Sili.

 

post volume Sili has already pointed out is not a tell, and Stork went through and checked up on those facts. How can you even quantify tenseness, fakeness, and the presence of belief? Any experienced Mafia player, when they are a wolf, knows how to speak with conviction, even if what they are saying is complete BS. irt the tenseness thing, I thought Sili's responses to you/BFG during the "necessary for a wolf!Seph" exchange were kind of stilted and annoyed, I thought he was pretty tense. As for fakeness, who even knows, lol. I think that's also correlated with conviction, and if you have one part down, the other should also hold. 

[wish-tree]

Im confused on how you town read someone off of two alignments you actually have no idea about.

seems like she is trying to find a reason to actually read niniel town.

It's a associative read, wherein I think it's verryyyy veryyyy likely that someone does not treat their scum partner in a certain way. 

 

Or, if it's very likely that two people are scum and the third person they are pushing or who is pushing against them is then town.

[seph]

 

Im confused on how you town read someone off of two alignments you actually have no idea about.

seems like she is trying to find a reason to actually read niniel town.

It's a associative read, wherein I think it's verryyyy veryyyy likely that someone does not treat their scum partner in a certain way. 

 

Or, if it's very likely that two people are scum and the third person they are pushing or who is pushing against them is then town.

 

I understand that, but with niniel on the block here it makes more of a difference. You are town reading her solely based off of me and zanders play, which is pretty terrible since I know I am town, and I feel very strongly that zander is town

[Sili Quirrels]

man calling my responses to seph and bfg tense... that's like... but...

 

i was on a phone come on!

[seph]

also what exactly was the point in my iso/what did you get out of it. it is a bit jumbled up there

[Sili Quirrels]

[unvote]

[v]wish[/v]

[wish-tree]

some more associations

 

Lenlo/seph w/w - probably not

 

seph/Zander w/w - possible

 

seph/Niniel w/w - nope

 

Niniel/Zander w/w - unlikely from Niniel's side b/c of , but Zander/Niniel w/w - more possible b/c of Zander's tendency to hard bus

[Sili Quirrels]

*shrug* sry wish. i did like your tone though. <3

[alannalynn]

 

Niniel why is Kat so low? Why is Besie so low with so little content?

Here is what I wrote.

Besie - I have no idea why she has BFG as mafia that early. I don´t like it.

 

Sili - feeling better about him now compared to earlier.

 

Kat - I don´t feel good about her. She posts a lot to tell people to stop arguing and doing fluff/lol posts. I agree with her that people should stop arguing in that way because it makes the thread unreadable for some of us, but she doesn´t seem to draw any conclusions of them even though she apparently reads them. It seems like she is just posting to be seen posting.

 

Liz - I don´t understand a lot of what she is writing. Have no idea about her.

besie is mafia bc she's going against the grain and Kat is even though we know she'd prolly be uncomfortable as mafia?

[wish-tree]

 

 

Im confused on how you town read someone off of two alignments you actually have no idea about.

seems like she is trying to find a reason to actually read niniel town.

It's a associative read, wherein I think it's verryyyy veryyyy likely that someone does not treat their scum partner in a certain way. 

 

Or, if it's very likely that two people are scum and the third person they are pushing or who is pushing against them is then town.

 

I understand that, but with niniel on the block here it makes more of a difference. You are town reading her solely based off of me and zanders play, which is pretty terrible since I know I am town, and I feel very strongly that zander is town

 

I'm not sure if you get what unflipped associatives are, but essentially, without having read other peoples' stuff, I'm making comments on what I think is likely based off of that. Does that make sense?

 

I'm focused on you right now, not niniel, but if I go through and draw out potential connections, when I get to her ISO, then I'll be able to make sense of it.

[keyholder21]

Official Vote Count:

 

Niniel (4) - Hallia, Zander, Katiora, Lenlo

Lenlo (3) - alannalynn, Niniel, Clov

Seph (3) - Darthe, Besie, dice,

Liz (1) - Seph

Wistork (1) - Sili

 

Not Voting (4) - BFG, Lily, Lizabeth, Wistork

 

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. 

DEADLINE: Wednesday, June 8, 4:30pm CST
 

[wish-tree]

*shrug* sry wish. i did like your tone though. <3

wat

 

???

[alannalynn]

Shoot. I'm behind snd I can't post anymore before eod, sorry.

 

I like where my vote is rn

[wish-tree]

I'm not sure if you understand, seph, but I'm NOT giving niniel a pass because of you and Zander.

 

I haven't read anything from her besides the stuff that you posted about her

[Sili Quirrels]

i'm not going to try to convince anyone. stork was trying to manipulate the thread by going after seph. and wish mentioned the associations because seph talked about it a little, and it was weird imo. and she said that thing about how seph treated two different players differently. and there are other times i find her doing something odd.

 

kat is the same to an extent. i don't like it.

 

whatever though. i don't want to stand here trying to convince anyone that i'm right. i'm not even sure if i'm right. this is just my best guess. above is the reason it's my best guess. you can say what you will about the total flips on my part - because i make them a lot to be honest. it happens cause it takes time for my brain to process things.

[Niniel]

 

 

Niniel why is Kat so low? Why is Besie so low with so little content?

Here is what I wrote.

Besie - I have no idea why she has BFG as mafia that early. I don´t like it.

 

Sili - feeling better about him now compared to earlier.

 

Kat - I don´t feel good about her. She posts a lot to tell people to stop arguing and doing fluff/lol posts. I agree with her that people should stop arguing in that way because it makes the thread unreadable for some of us, but she doesn´t seem to draw any conclusions of them even though she apparently reads them. It seems like she is just posting to be seen posting.

 

Liz - I don´t understand a lot of what she is writing. Have no idea about her.

besie is mafia bc she's going against the grain and Kat is even though we know she'd prolly be uncomfortable as mafia?

 

 

I haven´t played with Kat and don´t know how she would act as mafia.

[wish-tree]

oh well lel

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-1/?view=findpost&p=3663552

 

continuing on, what I meant by consistency is how you arrived at your sili read from voting him and telling him to shape up, and then saying you were too lazy to unvote him once you started to read him as town. I can't read your mind, but what I see from your posts is no explanation of this thought progression.

 

That's what I took issue with.

[seph]

 

 

 

Im confused on how you town read someone off of two alignments you actually have no idea about.

seems like she is trying to find a reason to actually read niniel town.

It's a associative read, wherein I think it's verryyyy veryyyy likely that someone does not treat their scum partner in a certain way. 

 

Or, if it's very likely that two people are scum and the third person they are pushing or who is pushing against them is then town.

 

I understand that, but with niniel on the block here it makes more of a difference. You are town reading her solely based off of me and zanders play, which is pretty terrible since I know I am town, and I feel very strongly that zander is town

 

I'm not sure if you get what unflipped associatives are, but essentially, without having read other peoples' stuff, I'm making comments on what I think is likely based off of that. Does that make sense?

 

I'm focused on you right now, not niniel, but if I go through and draw out potential connections, when I get to her ISO, then I'll be able to make sense of it.

 

I do understand, but you literally call niniel TOWN based off me and zanders play, am i wrong?

below are some association reads, when you call me and z possible w/w.

 

but the niniel read you clearly call her town from basing a read off me and zander, which you have no idea how either of us should flip. so how does that make niniel probably town