The Wheel of Time Will Be Adapted as a TV Series

[Graendals favourite]

I'll be dissappointed if it fizzles down to a teen drama. Instead, as if I had power, I insist on penises, a glimpse of all male characters will do, therefore it is sure too that there must be things to interest non-teen audience. If that bit, penises, shocked teen audiences, well I would be more interested on how adult audiences saw it.

 

I want it shown true, not a pc-riddled thing. Or sugar-coated to so strange view. Honest and shocking where its due, and start with having the penises from start. They need not be close-ups.

[wheeloftimetv]

Oh, and the penises, lets make this adult or not at all.

 

 

Not that, I already said many times, not porn, that's not what it is, just adult, it will have people thinking, and so have the penises. Not exactly European cinema history, but anyone who knows film will know I mean what I mean and will know what I don't mean.

That you have a penis fetish?

[Occams whiskey bottle]

I think that nudity where it is presented in the book to further the storyline forward is appropriate, but I wouldn't show nudity just to show nudity. 

[Graendals favourite]

Yea, point exactly!

[szilard]

 

Oh, and the penises, lets make this adult or not at all.

 

 

Not that, I already said many times, not porn, that's not what it is, just adult, it will have people thinking, and so have the penises. Not exactly European cinema history, but anyone who knows film will know I mean what I mean and will know what I don't mean.

That you have a penis fetish?

 

 

All the time.

[szilard]

For the things with Elayne and Egwene... it's not that those things are uninteresting. It's just that they drag on for far too long and are repetitive within themselves. I didn't mind them so much in the novels (although those parts are far from my favorite) because when I'm reading a novel the extra nuance can be good. In a series, they wouldn't need to be completely omitted but just a side plot for a couple of episodes while other interesting things are happening.

 

I'll also say that those plot-lines drove me nuts when I was reading the books as they were released because they kept me away from the events and conclusions that I found more interesting in that sometimes those events weren't covered in the book and I'd have to wait 2 years for the next book. In a re-read where the waiting isn't an issue it's not as big of a deal.

 

I'm also with you on Matt/Tuon. That dragged on a bit. So did Faile's time being a Shaido prisoner. Again, those things aren't uninteresting as much as they moved slowly.

 

 

I agree with you almost totally, except the bolded part.

 

How would you solve the side plots? Would you give them a full episode or two (as "filler" episodes), or would you rather put 5-10 minutes of them into every episodes?

 

What is your ration on the main story vs side plots?

Edited November 23, 2016 by szilard

[Occams whiskey bottle]

 

For the things with Elayne and Egwene... it's not that those things are uninteresting. It's just that they drag on for far too long and are repetitive within themselves. I didn't mind them so much in the novels (although those parts are far from my favorite) because when I'm reading a novel the extra nuance can be good. In a series, they wouldn't need to be completely omitted but just a side plot for a couple of episodes while other interesting things are happening.

 

I'll also say that those plot-lines drove me nuts when I was reading the books as they were released because they kept me away from the events and conclusions that I found more interesting in that sometimes those events weren't covered in the book and I'd have to wait 2 years for the next book. In a re-read where the waiting isn't an issue it's not as big of a deal.

 

I'm also with you on Matt/Tuon. That dragged on a bit. So did Faile's time being a Shaido prisoner. Again, those things aren't uninteresting as much as they moved slowly.

 

 

I agree with you almost totally, except the bolded part.

 

How would you solve the side plots? Would you give them a full episode or two (as "filler" episodes), or would you rather put 5-10 minutes of them into every episodes?

 

What is your ration on the main story vs side plots?

 

 

 

The only truly bad book in my opinion was book 10, but I haven't reread it since the first time, so it might hold up better the second time around. First time I read it I thought it was the final book, so you can imagine my frustration when I was 1/2 way through it and there was still no final battle to be found anywhere.

[szilard]

The only truly bad book in my opinion was book 10, but I haven't reread it since the first time, so it might hold up better the second time around. First time I read it I thought it was the final book, so you can imagine my frustration when I was 1/2 way through it and there was still no final battle to be found anywhere.

 

*slowly crawling back into the chair* Sorry! How do you define the term 'The Last Battle'?

 

I don't think that we will get so many seasons. If we get a good interpretation of the first six books, then they can do anything, I don't care.

 

Do you want a pure action-adventure centered series? How would you split up the screentime between the characters?

 

 

By the way, you know the classic answer, don't you?

 

 

 

Robert Jordan is an unmitigated genius. His brilliance and depth of knowledge in the literary field are virtually unsurpassed. There have been a lot of complaints on this site but, seriously, ask yourself how many of you 1-star reviewers could spend a full 36 consecutive pages giving a detailed description of a single dress. It's not an easy task.

 

And then there are the bosoms - exposed bosoms, covered bosoms, heaving bosoms, sweaty bosoms, small, large, light, dark - the list is really endless. The man is truly a bosom authority and should be lauded for such incredible work here.

And let's not forget the tea. There's weak tea, strong tea, hot tea, cold tea, plain tea, spiced tea, good tea, bad tea, bland tea, and it doesn't end there. A lesser author may opt for shortcuts but not Mr. Jordan. We get full accountings of the size, color, and consistency of the various tea leaves, their country/county/city/town/garden of origin, the soil color and optimal temperature conditions for growing each type of tea leaf, the family histories of their growers, ancestral histories of all the people that have ever tasted tea, as well as all of the insects that feed off said tea leaves before they can be harvested and thereby threaten the all important tea supply throughout the world. Very exciting stuff, people. Whoever doesn't like this book obviously lacks the mental capacity to process such complex information and should stick to more low-brow forms of entertainment where "stuff happens". My God, as if stuff happening (also known as plot progression in more educated circles) is important to story telling. Wake up, people, it's not all about action.

 

 

[Occams whiskey bottle]

I guess I don't understand what your asking. The last battle was the final battle of the series.

[szilard]

OFF

 

I guess I don't understand what your asking. The last battle was the final battle of the series.

 

So, there will be many 'last' battles in the future, this is what you are saying? When comes an end of an Age, then it comes a LB.

 

ON

[szilard]

Someone suggested that I should watch the series called Reign, because it is fantastic, and WOT is mainly the same.

 

Well, after watching a few videos on youtube, I'm dreading that the producers will follow that series. It is so horrible, so unwatchable ... but I think it is possible that WOT will be adapted this way, because, you know, money talks.

 

And I don't understand the obsession with the close-ups.

[dexterryu]

 

For the things with Elayne and Egwene... it's not that those things are uninteresting. It's just that they drag on for far too long and are repetitive within themselves. I didn't mind them so much in the novels (although those parts are far from my favorite) because when I'm reading a novel the extra nuance can be good. In a series, they wouldn't need to be completely omitted but just a side plot for a couple of episodes while other interesting things are happening.

 

I'll also say that those plot-lines drove me nuts when I was reading the books as they were released because they kept me away from the events and conclusions that I found more interesting in that sometimes those events weren't covered in the book and I'd have to wait 2 years for the next book. In a re-read where the waiting isn't an issue it's not as big of a deal.

 

I'm also with you on Matt/Tuon. That dragged on a bit. So did Faile's time being a Shaido prisoner. Again, those things aren't uninteresting as much as they moved slowly.

 

 

I agree with you almost totally, except the bolded part.

 

How would you solve the side plots? Would you give them a full episode or two (as "filler" episodes), or would you rather put 5-10 minutes of them into every episodes?

 

What is your ration on the main story vs side plots?

 

 

I see what you mean on the part I bolded. Most of my "re-reads" are audio books which give a different context of sorts, but I do agree that they could have been trimmed.

 

As for the side plots... I guess we would need to define what is a side plot. In general I would favor 5-10 minutes per episode. That way people keep track week to week and characters don't get lost for several episodes and forgotten about. For example... in TFoH, I would consider Min/Suane/Leane/Logan's journey Salidar to be a side plot. It's important to the overall story, but not a main focus for the book. So I'd kick it off with 5-10 minutes at Bryne's and just 1-2 minutes for several episodes each until they complete their arc in Salidar. I'd have Bryne showing up be a total surprise instead of like the book where the readers know he's on the way.

[szilard]

For example... in TFoH, I would consider Min/Suane/Leane/Logan's journey Salidar to be a side plot. It's important to the overall story, but not a main focus for the book. So I'd kick it off with 5-10 minutes at Bryne's and just 1-2 minutes for several episodes each until they complete their arc in Salidar. I'd have Bryne showing up be a total surprise instead of like the book where the readers know he's on the way.

 

 

That's a great example, because I think that's a side plot which does not work on TV at all. Do not mention the fact, that Min is missing from from her own pov, but that's my problem. We have to get acquainted with S, because she will be Eg's teacheradvisor, but I cannot see this working in/on the small screen. Quite simply, just cut it out.

[dexterryu]

 

For example... in TFoH, I would consider Min/Suane/Leane/Logan's journey Salidar to be a side plot. It's important to the overall story, but not a main focus for the book. So I'd kick it off with 5-10 minutes at Bryne's and just 1-2 minutes for several episodes each until they complete their arc in Salidar. I'd have Bryne showing up be a total surprise instead of like the book where the readers know he's on the way.

 

 

That's a great example, because I think that's a side plot which does not work on TV at all. Do not mention the fact, that Min is missing from from her own pov, but that's my problem. We have to get acquainted with S, because she will be Eg's teacheradvisor, but I cannot see this working in/on the small screen. Quite simply, just cut it out.

 

 

I agree that it isn't a great side plot, but it is important. I would dedicate about 10 minutes of screen time to it for the entire season. A couple of minutes in the first episode at Bryne's, and a couple of minutes in the next on the scene where they learn about Salidar. I'd finish it off in the 3rd episode with them arriving at Salidar. I'd skip over the part about the AS not believing who Suane and Leanne are and just have them put to work. That way they aren't just automatically at Salidar with no explanation after escaping.

 

The only other way you could tell the story would be if the blues rescued them on their exodus from the tower and simply took the 4 with them to Salidar.

[szilard]

Min's journey (in TDR) is off screen. Similar solution could happen this time, I think. Does the avg. person sitting on their couch know who Byrne at all? Or would you develop him into a semi-important charcter?

 

And could I flip the question? How does your structure look like? Because we sometimes debate in our club whether we need Perrin or not, so when we are speaking about fifth-tier character getting so much screentime, how would you divide a season up between the characters? 

[dexterryu]

Min's journey (in TDR) is off screen. Similar solution could happen this time, I think. Does the avg. person sitting on their couch know who Byrne at all? Or would you develop him into a semi-important charcter?

 

And could I flip the question? How does your structure look like? Because we sometimes debate in our club whether we need Perrin or not, so when we are speaking about fifth-tier character getting so much screentime, how would you divide a season up between the characters? 

 

Yes, Min's journey in TDR is off screen but the reader and the character knew she was going to TV. In TFoH, Min's group did not know which is why it's important to show it.

 

As for my structure... well that's a whole long discussion but as far as characters go... I'd put them in 4 classes, A-D. Class A's are your main cast that are pretty much the focus of the story. Class B would be your supporting characters that are major characters but can come, go, but when they are around are nearly as important as main characters. Class C are characters that are recognizable and influence the story. Class D are basically your named characters that have a small part, no real focus, but are important enough to be named.

 

A:) Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nyneave, and Elayne.

B:) Moiriane, Lan, Thom, Min, Loial, Aviendha, Suane

C:) Faile, Rhuarc, Gual, Verrin, Amys, Bryne, The Forsaken, Fain, 

D:) Morgase, Galad, Gawyn, Tam, Berelain.

 

I'm sure I missed some here and there, and I'm sure we could discuss who should be where also. Another thing is that this list would change season to season/book to book. Min and Loial are good examples. Min only in a couple of scenes in book 1. She's around quite a bit in book 2 and plays an important part. Barely there in 3, then again plays a huge part in 4. She's around quite a bit from book 6 on as she's always with Rand. Loial is kinda the opposite. He's a big player in Books 1-4, but only does small things after.

[szilard]

Thanks for your response, quite an interesting grading (putting Moi and Lan into the second category)

 

Min is really a good example; would you give more screentime to her to balance out her absence? Would there be a problem if the writers would write more sideplots for her? (The series even could start with Moi speaks with her etc. Just joking) From a certain point of view she is more important than Perrin, because Perrin is an outsider, while Min's plot mingles with the others'.

 

On Perrin: he is 'not' in book 5-6, so what's your solution? Cutting him out, or creating more sideplots for him? Or stretching his doing in TSR into more season?

 

And the question gives itself: if we get only 10 episodes (50 minutes long) per season, would you cram tEotW and TGH into S1? I think cramming is necessary, because neither the audience, nor the actors will commit themselves for more than 6-7 seasons. (And seeing 35-40 years old boys and girls is laughable)

[dexterryu]

Thanks for your response, quite an interesting grading (putting Moi and Lan into the second category)

 

Min is really a good example; would you give more screentime to her to balance out her absence? Would there be a problem if the writers would write more sideplots for her? (The series even could start with Moi speaks with her etc. Just joking) From a certain point of view she is more important than Perrin, because Perrin is an outsider, while Min's plot mingles with the others'.

 

On Perrin: he is 'not' in book 5-6, so what's your solution? Cutting him out, or creating more sideplots for him? Or stretching his doing in TSR into more season?

 

And the question gives itself: if we get only 10 episodes (50 minutes long) per season, would you cram tEotW and TGH into S1? I think cramming is necessary, because neither the audience, nor the actors will commit themselves for more than 6-7 seasons. (And seeing 35-40 years old boys and girls is laughable)

 

Wow, lots to respond to.

 

1) Moi and Lan would definitely be category B in book 1. Category C in Book 2, then back to B in 3-5. After that Lan is mostly C.

 

2) As for Min, I would leave it much the way it is in the books. Especially until book 6 when she becomes a little more present. She would bounce between B & C quite a bit too.

 

3) As for Perrin, I wouldn't have him be as abscent as he is in book 5. There are several ways to do this. First would be to spread out his TSR story.  I'd do something similar with Mat's abscence in PoD in that I would simply skip his broken leg and move right into his Tylen getting killed/channeller rescue/Tuon story. Both arcs have enough in them to be sprinkled throughout the episodes in a season.

 

4) Now we get to the format. Assuming this is live action, in my perfect world this would be a Netflix series produced in a similar format to Walking Dead which essentially two 8 seasons per year. Each episode would be 50-60 minutes. That's the only way I see live action working out well in being both true to the books and getting the entire story done in 6-7 years. That said, if they go animated things could be very different. Actor aging isn't in play nor is keeping them committed and paying them higher rates.

Edited December 1, 2016 by dexterryu

[szilard]

Wow, lots to respond to.

 

1) Moi and Lan would definitely be category B in book 1. Category C in Book 2, then back to B in 3-5. After that Lan is mostly C.

 

2) As for Min, I would leave it much the way it is in the books. Especially until book 6 when she becomes a little more present. She would bounce between B & C quite a bit too.

 

3) As for Perrin, I wouldn't have him be as abscent as he is in book 5. There are several ways to do this. First would be to spread out his TSR story.  I'd do something similar with Mat's abscence in PoD in that I would simply skip his broken leg and move right into his Tylen getting killed/channeller rescue/Tuon story. Both arcs have enough in them to be sprinkled throughout the episodes in a season.

 

4) Now we get to the format. Assuming this is live action, in my perfect world this would be a Netflix series produced in a similar format to Walking Dead which essentially two 8 seasons per year. Each episode would be 50-60 minutes. That's the only way I see live action working out well in being both true to the books and getting the entire story done in 6-7 years. That said, if they go animated things could be very different. Actor aging isn't in play nor is keeping them committed and paying them higher rates.

 

 

Thanks.

 

1. It looks like you firmly put them into the background!

 

2. I get your point, but I do not know that the audience how will to react such a sporadic appearance. I don't know what they do in GOT, what was the reaction etc.

 

3. ok

 

4. To the best of my knowledge, and maybe it was mentioned in this thread that filming more than 10-12 episodes per year is 'impossible'. Of course, if we get 16 episodes a year, then the creators will have a way bigger elbow-room, which is only a good thing: if a, they have more money, b, they could fill the 16 episodes with content.

 

on being animated: the water looks very cool in Moana, but as we saw in the How to Train Your Dragon franchise, people do not care about quality (to them Cartoon Network = silver screen), so this way could be dangerous.

[dexterryu]

 

Wow, lots to respond to.

 

1) Moi and Lan would definitely be category B in book 1. Category C in Book 2, then back to B in 3-5. After that Lan is mostly C.

 

2) As for Min, I would leave it much the way it is in the books. Especially until book 6 when she becomes a little more present. She would bounce between B & C quite a bit too.

 

3) As for Perrin, I wouldn't have him be as abscent as he is in book 5. There are several ways to do this. First would be to spread out his TSR story.  I'd do something similar with Mat's abscence in PoD in that I would simply skip his broken leg and move right into his Tylen getting killed/channeller rescue/Tuon story. Both arcs have enough in them to be sprinkled throughout the episodes in a season.

 

4) Now we get to the format. Assuming this is live action, in my perfect world this would be a Netflix series produced in a similar format to Walking Dead which essentially two 8 seasons per year. Each episode would be 50-60 minutes. That's the only way I see live action working out well in being both true to the books and getting the entire story done in 6-7 years. That said, if they go animated things could be very different. Actor aging isn't in play nor is keeping them committed and paying them higher rates.

 

 

Thanks.

 

1. It looks like you firmly put them into the background!

 

2. I get your point, but I do not know that the audience how will to react such a sporadic appearance. I don't know what they do in GOT, what was the reaction etc.

 

3. ok

 

4. To the best of my knowledge, and maybe it was mentioned in this thread that filming more than 10-12 episodes per year is 'impossible'. Of course, if we get 16 episodes a year, then the creators will have a way bigger elbow-room, which is only a good thing: if a, they have more money, b, they could fill the 16 episodes with content.

 

on being animated: the water looks very cool in Moana, but as we saw in the How to Train Your Dragon franchise, people do not care about quality (to them Cartoon Network = silver screen), so this way could be dangerous.

 

 

For #1) I consider A-B to be major characters. C would be important also. I'd say D and lower to be background.

 

#2) Walking Dead does this to fairly good effect. Rick is the main character but he's only the focal point in about 1/2 of the episodes and doesn't even appear in about 1/4 each. Depending on the episodes focus different characters are present or not present. It works because the plot of the show drives who's on and who isn't. On the flip side, one show that did the opposite became unwatchable for me, and that was True Blood. I enjoyed all of the books and the first couple of Seasons of the show. After that the series did a couple of things that I couldn't stand... first was that every character had to be given something to do each episode and the plots moved super slow (and many side plots were just bad). The Big Bang Theory suffers from this a bit well since they've grown the cast from the original 5, to now 8 characters.

 

#4) Think of it as two eight episode seasons per year. Again, Walking Dead is a good example of this format. It runs 8 episode from Mid Oct through December. Then takes a break and comes back in late February. Each 8 episode series is a full arc.

 

#5) If I went animated I wouldn't necessarily go full CG. I've always thought that the type of animation in the movie made for Dragon Age  (Dragon Age: Dawn of the Seeker). would fit well for Wheel of Time if they made the art direction a little bit ligher. Anyway, with animation it would cost less both the produce and for the talent so it wouldn't necessarily need to be a hit at the Game of Thrones level. That said, I'd be very very surprised if this isn't a live action production so animation is a bit of a moot point. My point with bringing it up is that I think it fits better due to the amount, frequency, and size of non-human characters (especially in Books 1-4) and the amount/frequency of Power use and how crappy it would be if they tried to do it cheap.

[szilard]

#2) Walking Dead does this to fairly good effect. Rick is the main character but he's only the focal point in about 1/2 of the episodes and doesn't even appear in about 1/4 each. Depending on the episodes focus different characters are present or not present. It works because the plot of the show drives who's on and who isn't. On the flip side, one show that did the opposite became unwatchable for me, and that was True Blood. I enjoyed all of the books and the first couple of Seasons of the show. After that the series did a couple of things that I couldn't stand... first was that every character had to be given something to do each episode and the plots moved super slow (and many side plots were just bad). The Big Bang Theory suffers from this a bit well since they've grown the cast from the original 5, to now 8 characters.

 

I don't know these series at all, except their names.

 

So, you suggest that they should focus on a small cast, and if a character has nothing to do, then do not force them to do anything. It does not matter how popular are they. They could missing several episodes, the audience will remember them. Am I correct?

 

 

#4) Think of it as two eight episode seasons per year. Again, Walking Dead is a good example of this format. It runs 8 episode from Mid Oct through December. Then takes a break and comes back in late February. Each 8 episode series is a full arc.

 

How big are the sets? Does the CGI play important part?

 

 

My point with bringing it up is that I think it fits better due to the amount, frequency, and size of non-human characters (especially in Books 1-4) and the amount/frequency of Power use and how crappy it would be if they tried to do it cheap.

 

Maybe we will not see anything just sweating faces...

 

What do you think about the effects in Warcraft?

[dexterryu]

 

#2) Walking Dead does this to fairly good effect. Rick is the main character but he's only the focal point in about 1/2 of the episodes and doesn't even appear in about 1/4 each. Depending on the episodes focus different characters are present or not present. It works because the plot of the show drives who's on and who isn't. On the flip side, one show that did the opposite became unwatchable for me, and that was True Blood. I enjoyed all of the books and the first couple of Seasons of the show. After that the series did a couple of things that I couldn't stand... first was that every character had to be given something to do each episode and the plots moved super slow (and many side plots were just bad). The Big Bang Theory suffers from this a bit well since they've grown the cast from the original 5, to now 8 characters.

 

I don't know these series at all, except their names.

 

So, you suggest that they should focus on a small cast, and if a character has nothing to do, then do not force them to do anything. It does not matter how popular are they. They could missing several episodes, the audience will remember them. Am I correct?

 

 

#4) Think of it as two eight episode seasons per year. Again, Walking Dead is a good example of this format. It runs 8 episode from Mid Oct through December. Then takes a break and comes back in late February. Each 8 episode series is a full arc.

 

How big are the sets? Does the CGI play important part?

 

 

My point with bringing it up is that I think it fits better due to the amount, frequency, and size of non-human characters (especially in Books 1-4) and the amount/frequency of Power use and how crappy it would be if they tried to do it cheap.

 

Maybe we will not see anything just sweating faces...

 

What do you think about the effects in Warcraft?

 

 

Walking Dead... First, you're missing out on a great show. It's on Hulu/Netflix/Amazon if you have any of those and it's worth your time. The cast is fairly large. It grows and shrinks. Characters are killed off fairly frequently (it's more brutal than GoT). It started off with about 3 main characters and 5 support. Through the show outside of a couple of exceptions who is a main and who is a side are grey. As I said, any of them can not be present (or have no lines) in any given episode and/or be gone for several. Sometimes it's done for suspense (did they get killed or not), sometimes it's just that they aren't part of a given plot-line.

 

As for special effects. There is no magic. There is a lot of zombies and combat which is a mix of practical and CG.

 

I only saw a little bit of Warcraft... so I really don't have an opinion. The trailer looked a bit over the top/cartoony, which fits it from what I remember of playing WoW.

[szilard]

Wikipedia says that WD's running time is 42–67 minutes. That's a pretty big difference between episodes. Do you think that it is the way how WOT should be made?

[dexterryu]

Wikipedia says that WD's running time is 42–67 minutes. That's a pretty big difference between episodes. Do you think that it is the way how WOT should be made?

 

I do. In my opinion it allows the story to be the focus rather than the time. It allows the extra detail and character development to happen when necessary.  Heck even the episode count per season should be adjusted to tell the story the right way. If it's good, the show will get viewers and the network will make money. That said, Walking Dead enjoys the benefit of being the top viewed cable show right now so it's basically printing money for AMC and gets a lot of leash.

Edited December 7, 2016 by dexterryu

[szilard]

I do. In my opinion it allows the story to be the focus rather than the time. It allows the extra detail and character development to happen when necessary.  Heck even the episode count per season should be adjusted to tell the story the right way.

 

But earlier you have said that "Think of it as two eight episode seasons per year", so would S1 is only 6 episodes but S2 is 11 ep., S3 is 8 ep. be acceptable to you?