The Wheel of Time Will Be Adapted as a TV Series

[Mladen]

On 7/6/2019 at 8:23 PM, DemandredFO said:

Watchers would be bored to tears if Egwene got anywhere near the amount of screen, especially later books when all of her screen time is politics.

 

I am not that sure. The politics of Tar Valon and Egwene's imprisonment can be the next "Game of Thrones" inside the TV show. Cut all the unnecessary Aes Sedai, have Romanda and Leleaine with Siuan and Sheriam, make it epic when Egwene turns tables on them and you get an impressive storyline.

 

That story has a potential. I am more worried about Elayne's war for Caemlyn and all the games in Andor.

[mactwist2]

On 7/5/2019 at 10:27 AM, Jaglover said:

Steady on there WOT may be a more enjoyable and relaxing read than ASOIAF (IMO) but GRRM is one of the masters of the craft and fully up there with Tolkien.

 

Agree with most of the rest of the post. No need to force a feminist agenda in a series that already has great female characters. Based on GOT CGI is not going to be a problem with sufficient budget.

I actually didn't read the books but if the writing was on par with the first four seasons of GOT then GRRM is among the top tier for sure.

[mistborn82]

I don't where everyone, authors and fans gets the GRRM is so awesome. LOTR and The Hobbit are still being read after all this time and Tolkien didn't need beheadings, rapes, the red wedding, etc. to show how awesome of a writer he was. Granted GRRM has good descriptions and stuff but the graphic and crass nature diminishes the overall story for me.

[Jaglover]

9 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

I don't where everyone, authors and fans gets the GRRM is so awesome. LOTR and The Hobbit are still being read after all this time and Tolkien didn't need beheadings, rapes, the red wedding, etc. to show how awesome of a writer he was. Granted GRRM has good descriptions and stuff but the graphic and crass nature diminishes the overall story for me.

You are really just discussing the age range and sensitivities a book is suitable for rather than the quality of the writing. I read the Hobbit at ten and LOTR at about 11. Any parent letting their child read ASOIAF at 11 probably needs their head examined.  You might as well say David Eddings is a better writer because his main two series are suitable for ages twelve and up.

 

The middle ages was an often brutal time and often not a good place to be if you were poor or a woman or both. GRRM shows you that reality but actually keeps most of the sexual violence and torture off page, so he is actually far less graphic than he could be.  

[Carebear Sedai]

On 9/3/2019 at 6:15 AM, Mladen said:

 

I am not that sure. The politics of Tar Valon and Egwene's imprisonment can be the next "Game of Thrones" inside the TV show. Cut all the unnecessary Aes Sedai, have Romanda and Leleaine with Siuan and Sheriam, make it epic when Egwene turns tables on them and you get an impressive storyline.

 

That story has a potential. I am more worried about Elayne's war for Caemlyn and all the games in Andor.

 

I'm holding out hope that it'll be cut altogether. 

 

The White Tower intrigue is a different story, because it was always gonna be hugely relevant to the A-plot given their role in the last battle and their eventual clash with the Seanchan. It's also a mystery that builds up from the moment Moiraine appears on the screen and we're introduced to the concept of an Aes Sedai. Reading all those chapters wasn't super exciting, but I can see the plot turning out killer on the show. 

[mistborn82]

There needs to be consequences to a Foresaken in Caemlyn and the civil war shows that. I think you drop Valan Luca entirely, start the road to salidar earlier and I think it'll all work out.

[a figg]

I heard a few days ago that Wheel of Time was being made into a TV series, and came to the Dragonmount site for more info.   A TV series would be a good approach.  I approached the website hopefully.  I’m disgusted but not particularly surprised by the handful of comments I read there.  Thank you to those of you who understand and appreciate this incredible story and who have also expressed concern.

 

To the filmmaker, do I have this straight?  You want to take the name of Wheel of Time and apply it to a completely different story to fit a formula and make it more like G of T. Hello??? Have you read the books? What’s the point of that?  You could do something innovative and creative with this incredible story rather than to force-fit it to some formula. 

 

It sounds like you’re pandering to the commercial peddling of sex and violence, People bring up comparisons with G of T.  Having read G of T, the sex and violence is written into that story so the TV series is apparently true to its story.  How warped are you if you want to ignore the W of T story and rewrite it to pander to sex and emphasize violence?  Sensuality is far more alluring than sex or nudity and has a reasonable presence in W of T, although it seems to have fallen out of favor in modern filmmaking. W of T has it’s own share of violence as part of the story but it’s not there for the sake of ratings.  The TV version of the Shannara series, which didn’t last long, had a ton of sex and gratuitous violence added, such that it no longer reflected its original story.  If you want to do a TV show with lots of sex, then choose a book where that’s part of the story.  Maybe you should be dealing with Laura Hamilton’s books instead of Robert Jordan’s. Too bad shows like Star Trek, Star Wars, Indiana Jones and Harry Potter didn’t have much sex in them—of course you’ve probably never heard of any of those…while undoubtedly you’ve all seen the Shannara shows and have the memorabilia. 

 

There’s commentary that W of T lacks diversity in terms of ethnicity and sexual orientation.  Hello??? Again, have you read the books?  Have you listened to Robert Jordan’s commentary?  

 

Robert Jordan pulled from diverse cultures and ethnicities.  Recall that Rand’s ethnicity set him apart in Two Rivers. Light eyes and red hair were rare, at least at the beginning.  People who traveled more widely took him for an Aiel.   As the story progresses, the Two Rivers community opens its arms to refuges of assorted ethnicities and cultures, who become part of that community and bring change.  Look at the descriptions of the various peoples of the various countries—there’s incredible ethnic diversity within the continent and even more outside of it.  One could easily fit various ethnicities to the various W of T countries and peoples, rather than claiming the people in the story aren’t diverse enough. You see that diversity more and more as the little group from Two Rivers travels farther from home.  You don’t have to rewrite the story to be inclusive if you just apply some creativity and/or patience. 

 

Diverse sexuality didn’t seem to be a big deal in the books so why, per some of the postings, force the issue?  Isn’t a world with acceptance a better place? Same-sex partners or preferences are mentioned by Aes Sedai, Aiel, and Ashaman as well as smattering of others, including the Seafolk, Tear and other places.  Robert Jordan doesn’t hammer you over the head with sex or orientation yet diverse sexuality seems to be accepted and respected. So why rewrite the story to beat people over the head with something that’s not a highlight  or an issue in the story?  In contrast, the relations between men and women and various couples is certainly an important, ongoing and very fun theme, based on attitudes and misunderstandings, not on sexual titillation for the viewer. Will that be given the focus it’s due?  What’s wrong or unrealistic with a story being PG?  Adding a bunch of diverse sexuality certainly didn’t work for the ‘Shannara’.   Please recall also that diverse gender roles exist in W of T, with the most unusual example being Far Madding.

 

As for increasing the amount of nudity per some posts, Hello???  There’s the baths of the Shienaren, the sweat tents of the Aiel and the ships of the Seafolk, to name a few.  There’s the debauchery of festivals in a couple of countries.  Oh, and don’t forget the streith garments of the female Forsaken and the sheer clothing of the damane.  So why change the story to add more nudity?   

 

Regarding violence, someone actually commented that not enough of the main characters died. Hello??? Did you read the book that contained the Last Battle?  Whole lists of familiar characters die.  The story contains violence and death enough.  How sickening that there are people out there who actually think more needs to be added.  It’d sad that the lenses for today’s movies can’t see that the violence is sickening enough without portraying it as graphically and messily as possible, which seemed to be the case for the graphic extra violence added to the Shannara.  

 

Robert Jordan, aided in the end by Brandon Sanderson, has told an incredibly rich story to us.  It sounds like some want to take the popularity the story inspired and use that to make money, rather than to tell the story. With G of T, sex and violence worked well because THAT’S WHAT THE BOOKS CONTAINED.  Not so with Shannara, not so with Wheel of Time.  Why destroy the story line and the core of the main characters when staying more true to the story might actually be the innovative, bold and artistically amazing choice? How about relying on plot rather than titillation?  Why not use the story that’s there, rather than trying to make it into G of T, which thankfully, it is not?  What’s the point of making a TV series of W of T if you’re actually telling a radically different story?  I’m not surprised that someone might do that, but I’m surprised that anyone who is invested enough in these stories to take the time to read the books and understand the characters, much less visit the website, would find that appealing.  If you substantially change the basic story of W of T, what’s the point?  It’s one thing to adjust the story so it works in a visual telling but that’s not what I perceive from the posts I read.  It sounds like they want to make it into something like G of T.

 

Just wanted to share these concerns.  I hope that my impression about the direction the TV show is taking is wrong.  Thank you for this opportunity to speak.  Happy to be educated if some of these concerns have already been addressed--there are hundreds of postings and I admittedly have only read a handful.  

[SinisterDeath]

12 hours ago, a figg said:

I heard a few days ago that Wheel of Time was being made into a TV series, and came to the Dragonmount site for more info.   A TV series would be a good approach.  I approached the website hopefully.  I’m disgusted but not particularly surprised by the handful of comments I read there.  Thank you to those of you who understand and appreciate this incredible story and who have also expressed concern.

 

To the filmmaker, do I have this straight?

  You want to take the name of Wheel of Time and apply it to a completely different story to fit a formula and make it more like G of T. Hello??? Have you read the books? What’s the point of that?  You could do something innovative and creative with this incredible story rather than to force-fit it to some formula. 

 

It sounds like you’re pandering to the commercial peddling of sex and violence, People bring up comparisons with G of T.  Having read G of T, the sex and violence is written into that story so the TV series is apparently true to its story.  How warped are you if you want to ignore the W of T story and rewrite it to pander to sex and emphasize violence?  Sensuality is far more alluring than sex or nudity and has a reasonable presence in W of T, although it seems to have fallen out of favor in modern filmmaking. W of T has it’s own share of violence as part of the story but it’s not there for the sake of ratings.  The TV version of the Shannara series, which didn’t last long, had a ton of sex and gratuitous violence added, such that it no longer reflected its original story.  If you want to do a TV show with lots of sex, then choose a book where that’s part of the story.  Maybe you should be dealing with Laura Hamilton’s books instead of Robert Jordan’s. Too bad shows like Star Trek, Star Wars, Indiana Jones and Harry Potter didn’t have much sex in them—of course you’ve probably never heard of any of those…while undoubtedly you’ve all seen the Shannara shows and have the memorabilia. 

 

There’s commentary that W of T lacks diversity in terms of ethnicity and sexual orientation.  Hello??? Again, have you read the books?  Have you listened to Robert Jordan’s commentary?  

 

Robert Jordan pulled from diverse cultures and ethnicities.  Recall that Rand’s ethnicity set him apart in Two Rivers. Light eyes and red hair were rare, at least at the beginning.  People who traveled more widely took him for an Aiel.   As the story progresses, the Two Rivers community opens its arms to refuges of assorted ethnicities and cultures, who become part of that community and bring change.  Look at the descriptions of the various peoples of the various countries—there’s incredible ethnic diversity within the continent and even more outside of it.  One could easily fit various ethnicities to the various W of T countries and peoples, rather than claiming the people in the story aren’t diverse enough. You see that diversity more and more as the little group from Two Rivers travels farther from home.  You don’t have to rewrite the story to be inclusive if you just apply some creativity and/or patience. 

 

Diverse sexuality didn’t seem to be a big deal in the books so why, per some of the postings, force the issue?  Isn’t a world with acceptance a better place? Same-sex partners or preferences are mentioned by Aes Sedai, Aiel, and Ashaman as well as smattering of others, including the Seafolk, Tear and other places.  Robert Jordan doesn’t hammer you over the head with sex or orientation yet diverse sexuality seems to be accepted and respected. So why rewrite the story to beat people over the head with something that’s not a highlight  or an issue in the story?  In contrast, the relations between men and women and various couples is certainly an important, ongoing and very fun theme, based on attitudes and misunderstandings, not on sexual titillation for the viewer. Will that be given the focus it’s due?  What’s wrong or unrealistic with a story being PG?  Adding a bunch of diverse sexuality certainly didn’t work for the ‘Shannara’.   Please recall also that diverse gender roles exist in W of T, with the most unusual example being Far Madding.

 

As for increasing the amount of nudity per some posts, Hello???  There’s the baths of the Shienaren, the sweat tents of the Aiel and the ships of the Seafolk, to name a few.  There’s the debauchery of festivals in a couple of countries.  Oh, and don’t forget the streith garments of the female Forsaken and the sheer clothing of the damane.  So why change the story to add more nudity?   

 

Regarding violence, someone actually commented that not enough of the main characters died. Hello??? Did you read the book that contained the Last Battle?  Whole lists of familiar characters die.  The story contains violence and death enough.  How sickening that there are people out there who actually think more needs to be added.  It’d sad that the lenses for today’s movies can’t see that the violence is sickening enough without portraying it as graphically and messily as possible, which seemed to be the case for the graphic extra violence added to the Shannara.  

 

Robert Jordan, aided in the end by Brandon Sanderson, has told an incredibly rich story to us.  It sounds like some want to take the popularity the story inspired and use that to make money, rather than to tell the story. With G of T, sex and violence worked well because THAT’S WHAT THE BOOKS CONTAINED.  Not so with Shannara, not so with Wheel of Time.  Why destroy the story line and the core of the main characters when staying more true to the story might actually be the innovative, bold and artistically amazing choice? How about relying on plot rather than titillation?  Why not use the story that’s there, rather than trying to make it into G of T, which thankfully, it is not?  What’s the point of making a TV series of W of T if you’re actually telling a radically different story?  I’m not surprised that someone might do that, but I’m surprised that anyone who is invested enough in these stories to take the time to read the books and understand the characters, much less visit the website, would find that appealing.  If you substantially change the basic story of W of T, what’s the point?  It’s one thing to adjust the story so it works in a visual telling but that’s not what I perceive from the posts I read.  It sounds like they want to make it into something like G of T.

 

Just wanted to share these concerns.  I hope that my impression about the direction the TV show is taking is wrong.  Thank you for this opportunity to speak.  Happy to be educated if some of these concerns have already been addressed--there are hundreds of postings and I admittedly have only read a handful. 

It's an adaptation. Things get moved around, added, replaced, reinterpreted, because a 1:1 Book to TV/Movie would never work... Hello????

[SinisterDeath]

12 hours ago, a figg said:

To the filmmaker, do I have this straight?  You want to take the name of Wheel of Time and apply it to a completely different story to fit a formula and make it more like G of T. Hello???

No? Where on earth did you hear that?

 

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It sounds like you’re pandering to the commercial peddling of sex and violence, People bring up comparisons with G of T.  Having read G of T, the sex and violence is written into that story so the TV series is apparently true to its story.  

The show isn't even out yet, nor has it even begun filming.
Rafe Judkins, AFIAK never said it's going to have more more nudity & violence than GoT.

Sounds to me like you're conflating what other naysayers have said about what the show will contain and what the writers/producers have planned.
 

For reference, this is what Raef Judkins said in regards to adult content in WoT

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How exactly is GoT 'accessible to all'? Would you let your 7 year old nephew watch GoT?

 

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How warped are you if you want to ignore the W of T story and rewrite it to pander to sex and emphasize violence? Sensuality is far more alluring than sex or nudity and has a reasonable presence in W of T, although it seems to have fallen out of favor in modern filmmaking. W of T has it’s own share of violence as part of the story but it’s not there for the sake of ratings.

You.. have read the novels right?

There's Rape, Sex, Nudity abound, "pillow friends', murder, bloody pools of human & trolloc gore galore.

Fans aren't saying re-write anything... That's again, conflating the issue.

Fans are curious how much off-screen events, or 'implied' scenarios are going to be played on screen.

Remember, if you take out the solid 80% of the novel that is tugging hair braids, and describing fashion and Vistas, there's still 20% of a story there, with dialogue that you have to fill in the blanks.

If they did newspring, Do they show Moiraine and Suian as pillow friends? Do we just have Moiraine talking, and mentions her 'pillow friend'? There's plenty of room for adaptation, and interpretation.

 

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The TV version of the Shannara series, which didn’t last long, had a ton of sex and gratuitous violence added, such that it no longer reflected its original story.  If you want to do a TV show with lots of sex, then choose a book where that’s part of the story.  Maybe you should be dealing with Laura Hamilton’s books instead of Robert Jordan’s. Too bad shows like Star Trek, Star Wars, Indiana Jones and Harry Potter didn’t have much sex in them—of course you’ve probably never heard of any of those…while undoubtedly you’ve all seen the Shannara shows and have the memorabilia. 

 

Uhh I have seen those shows.. Chances are so has Rafe Judkins... 

Star Trek started in the 60s.... Where a white man kissing a black woman on screen was scandalous... Where literally showing two fully clothed adults in the same bed was unheard of.

 

Kirk was a notorious womanizer that had sex with anything with two legs, and presumably a umm.. Well you know.

 

Indiana Jones, the 'sex' is generally off-screen. But that show as also PG or PG13... same with Harry Potter.

 

None of that has to do with Shannara, which by all rights would have never made a good TV adaptation anyways. Those books were boring... And it was on MTV.
WoT is on Amazon. There is a.. Huge difference... and just because this cast looks young, doesn't mean they aren't good actors.

 

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There’s commentary that W of T lacks diversity in terms of ethnicity and sexual orientation.  Hello??? Again, have you read the books?  Have you listened to Robert Jordan’s commentary?  

No? 

The books contain a lot of that, but in the case of Sex & Sexual Orientation, a lot of it was 'off screen', or implied.  This leaves room for undeveloped characters, and new characters, and relationships, depending on the various plot lines they add. An Example of this is the Logain Plot. Does he have a relationship with anyone? In the books.. No. But we don't really see much of his PoV. Could they make Logain Gay? Straight? A-Sexual? if they did. Would it change anything else about the plot?

Nope.

 

This also doesn't mean to remain true to the books, we have to 'hide' sex & sexual orientation visually. The books use flowery language to say "oh, that guys gay. Okay, now that lady is wearing a dress", with a red veil".

Showing 'gay' people on screen, Doesn't mean you're going to just see a random scene with two oily guys just pounding each other. (Like in GoT) Showing them, can litterally be as inconspicuous as two dudes holding hands in the background. A lady giving another lady a kiss. That's not anymore in-your-face, than a straight couple holding hands, or kissing in the background. Shocker!

 

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You see that diversity more and more as the little group from Two Rivers travels farther from home.  You don’t have to rewrite the story to be inclusive if you just apply some creativity and/or patience. 

They didn't have to rewrite anything. Go back, re-read the descriptions sometimes. Ask yourself this. When/Where did RJ ever say "This person is of African/European/Asian descent".
The answer is; He didn't. He mentions skin-tone (to a point), noses, and eyes.

What mostly differentiated people's cultures was their dress and mannerisms. Everyone doesn't look alike. There's a general look to a given population, but there are going to be people that are outliers. There are going to be people, who's ancestors came from other nations/cultures. Gasp!

 

Like, I picture British people as being short, somewhat skinny but not fit, with hair between Brown and Red. Some with Green eyes, some with Brown. Now look at the picture below, The guy playing Perrin, He's British. So is the guy Playing Mat.

For reference, here's a picture of this wonderful cast all together, in the same lighting.

 

 

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Diverse sexuality didn’t seem to be a big deal in the books so why, per some of the postings, force the issue?  Isn’t a world with acceptance a better place? Same-sex partners or preferences are mentioned by Aes Sedai, Aiel, and Ashaman as well as smattering of others, including the Seafolk, Tear and other places.

Why does merely showing it on screen, magically mean it's forcing the issue?

 

As you yourself said, Aes Sedai, Aiel, Ashaman?, and Seafolk all mention it. That means it exists. And no one cares. Ergo, if you show a random guy on screen, kissing another guy, and no one bats an eye.. How is that forcing the issue?

 

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So why rewrite the story to beat people over the head with something that’s not a highlight  or an issue in the story? 

Are you freaking out over this 'forced' nature of sexual diversity because of this tweet?

You realize, that was in Jest, in reply to him getting death-threats.. right?

 

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In contrast, the relations between men and women and various couples is certainly an important, ongoing and very fun theme, based on attitudes and misunderstandings, not on sexual titillation for the viewer. 

... And non-straight couples which are implied in WoT, can't be 'important', or have 'fun' themes based on 'attitudes' and 'misunderstandings'? 

 

It should be noted when it comes to sexual 'titillation'.

Mat.

He was an absolute man-whore the first half of the series... There's a lot they can show, and not show, just in Mat's adventures alone.

 

 

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As for increasing the amount of nudity per some posts, Hello???  There’s the baths of the Shienaren, the sweat tents of the Aiel and the ships of the Seafolk, to name a few.  There’s the debauchery of festivals in a couple of countries.  Oh, and don’t forget the streith garments of the female Forsaken and the sheer clothing of the damane.  So why change the story to add more nudity?   

Who said they have to add much of anything? Just showing the implied, and off-screen can easily be done without changing the story.

 

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Regarding violence, someone actually commented that not enough of the main characters died. Hello??? Did you read the book that contained the Last Battle?

That took 14 books to happen.
GoT killed several main characters in almost every book/season. 
Some people get annoyed at having such a huge cast, with main characters that survive.. Because plot armor.

 

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The story contains violence and death enough.  How sickening that there are people out there who actually think more needs to be added. 

Again, there's showing, and then there's implied.

Rape is implied in WoT. Will Rafe show it? I don't think he will. He may imply it... Or maybe he'll only show Mat & Lan Getting raped, but not Morgrase and one of the Forsaken who's name escapes me.
 

There's death/murder. Much of which is implied. Will he show it? Possibly, if not probably. 
 

Will he show Rand going all Han Solo, shooting first, and beheading that random caravan lady? I dunno. It's possible, and as you said, the violence is there, so why judge people here for asking if what's in the books implied or explicit is even going to be shown?

 

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It’d sad that the lenses for today’s movies can’t see that the violence is sickening enough without portraying it as graphically and messily as possible, which seemed to be the case for the graphic extra violence added to the Shannara.  

Perhaps because cheesy violence isn't believable to anyone? 

Perhaps showing something graphically is meant to instill the anxiety and horror of the present situation? 

Would you rather they went all sword-of-truth, and show a sword hitting someone with no blood, and them falling to the ground sleeping?

 

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 It sounds like some want to take the popularity the story inspired and use that to make money, rather than to tell the story.

Its Television. Its always about money. If they didn't expect to make money from this, they would never make it, and we would never see a screen adaptation.

 

Peter Jackson's Lord of the Ring Trilogy. That may have been a labor of love on his part. But all the producers and investors? Yea, they didn't do it because they shared Peter's love of LOTR. They did it for the moneitization.

 

So you're conflating investors/producers need/want for making money, and the director/writers who actually.. you know.. care for the project they are working on?

 

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With G of T, sex and violence worked well because THAT’S WHAT THE BOOKS CONTAINED.

Dumani's Wells

 

Death Gates

 

Pretty much every night in the Aiel Wastes.

 

Need I go on?

 

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Why destroy the story line and the core of the main characters when staying more true to the story might actually be the innovative, bold and artistically amazing choice? How about relying on plot rather than titillation?

The show hasn't even been filmed yet. How can you assert that it's not going to stay relatively true to the story, and be all about Tits and Ass in your face, with heads flying everywhere?

 

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 I’m not surprised that someone might do that, but I’m surprised that anyone who is invested enough in these stories to take the time to read the books and understand the characters, much less visit the website, would find that appealing.  If you substantially change the basic story of W of T, what’s the point?  It’s one thing to adjust the story so it works in a visual telling but that’s not what I perceive from the posts I read.  It sounds like they want to make it into something like G of T.

Perhaps you're reading what you want to read, and interpreting it that way? 
When that's not what's actually being described? Perhaps there's more than one interpretation of how this could be adapted to TV?
 

Its obvious. You want a rated G version of WoT.

Some of the more mature crowd, would rather have an R, or MA show.

 

Perhaps some here do want to see a topless scene every episode... But I doubt that's the most popular opinion around,