[Standard] Chrono Trigger Mafia - Town wins Day 5!

[Turin Turambar]

I'm out for now. need to go to shop and other errands. 

 

In the snow. uphill. both ways. Yay random snow dumps

[Andrej]

Turin to Zander's rescue, a shocker.

 

What's funny is that although that's a fine catch to save your partner, ZANDER HIMSELF DIDNT EVEN REFERENCE IT WHEN HE CLAIMED. You would think if that was his intent with that question that would've been stuffed down my throat immediately. But no, instead it was pics and gifs softing his character instead - which proves nothing. What, did he "forget"? Lol. You neglected to add in that shortly after was when he tried to throw Yates agreeing with his reads in my face. THAT was the real intent of the question and was super slimey. But I'm not at all surprised you neglected to add that in there. Your case isn't at all objective, it's a one way ticket to save Zander and discredit me as possible. Don't think I didn't notice that you've got Tina in your pocket.

 

And yes, you're 100% supporting Zander right now and doing your best to smear me. Just look at the difference in phrasing.

 

[Zander's NA explanation] "Oh, that's reasonable. Well done." etc

 

[AJ's NA explanation] "I just can't understand. Can't be from a Town POV" etc

 

Along with other usage of buzz words like White Knighting.

 

Plain as day smear campaign, dude. Again I applaud your efforts but nope. Just nope.

[Andrej]

In other news, Nolder continues to act clueless and does nothing to solve the game.

 

Scum confirmed.

 

The ducks are in a row.

 

Tina, Hallia, Verb and Leelou - we can still win this game. I know that I've played like crap but I have been in the trenches the whole time. I'm not perfect and I think it's unreasonable to apply that standard. I need you guys to vote with me today. It's the only way we'll win. I don't care what order you want to go in, but one of these three need to be lynched.

[Andrej]

Oh, and Turin not to mention I see you already sowing seeds of doubt of Zander/AJ w/w conspiracy theory just in case things don't go your way today. That's more like the scum!Turin I'm used to seeing ;)

[Nolder]

In other news, Nolder continues to act clueless and does nothing to solve the game.

 

Scum confirmed.

 

The ducks are in a row.

 

Tina, Hallia, Verb and Leelou - we can still win this game. I know that I've played like crap but I have been in the trenches the whole time. I'm not perfect and I think it's unreasonable to apply that standard. I need you guys to vote with me today. It's the only way we'll win. I don't care what order you want to go in, but one of these three need to be lynched.

How am I acting clueless?

 

Because I asked who you and Zander (mainly Zander) suspect?

This just seems like you're trying to further your narrative against me.

Why don't you go to bed for real? You're cracking under the pressure.

[Nolder]

By the way in case you missed it the unspoken ending to AJ's plea to Tina et al is "trust me".

[Andrej]

The game is on the line, man. Sorry that I'm not taking that lightly. My effort speaks for itself, as does yours.

 

There's no narrative to spin here - you haven't done jack since you tunnelled me all of D1.

[Andrej]

I've also been super clear about who I suspect.

 

Zander as well.

 

Are you reading?

[Niniel]

Final Votecount

 

Dicetosser1 (5/7): Turin, Lenlo, Zander, AJ, Yates

AJ (3/7): Nolder, TinaHel, Verb

 

 

Not Voting (5): Dice, Hallia, Leelou, Thane

 

 

 

Votecount

 

AJ (2/6): Zander, Tina

 

Thane (4/6): Verb, Turin, Lenlo, Nolder

 

Nolder (4/6): AJ, Leelou, Thane, Hallia

 

 

 

 

 

I´ll start with the vote counts.

 

Tina - yes, I have coloured my name blue. Because I´m town.

 

Turin - has voted both Dice and Thane. If I remember it right he made cases for both of them and focused a lot on them. Will have to check, but it doesn´t look good.

 

Zander - voted Dice and then AJ. Need to see for myself if his claim seem believable.

 

AJ - voted Dice and Nolder. + that he didn´t vote Thane. If Nolder is town, it doesn´t matter. If he is mafia then it would have been stupid to buss.

 

Nolder - voted AJ and Thane. Haven´t contributed much after d1. He could have been the mafia counter wagon to Thane. If Zander is mafia, it´s clear that he wouldn´t vote Nolder. But why didn´t he vote Thane then?

 

Verb - voted AJ and Thane. His vote on Thane felt strange.

 

Hallia - didn´t vote at all d1 and voted Nolder d2. She is already townies of all in my list.

 

Leelou - didn´t vote on d1 (wasn´t here much) and voted Nolder d2. I´ve felt pretty good about her after she came back but that is just a gut feeling.

 

 

 

 

 

Speculations before I start to re-read.

 

If Nolder is mafia then Verb, Turin or Zander is on his team.

 

If Nolder isn´t mafia then it could be like anyone. lol

 

 

My main priorities is to check Zander´s possible role hints and how he treated AJ day 2, and to find out if Nolder is mafia or not.

[Niniel]

Checked Zander´s "hint" post/claim post. The pics and hearts might hint at his character. I don´t know this theme and if it´s a good character or not but it doesn´t matter because mafia probably have fake claims. So the eventual character hints means nothing. The hearts looks like a natural answer so I doubt it´s even a hint.

 

The other stuff I can´t see as hints on role claim either but I will take a look at his D2 posts.

[Niniel]

 

You're right, I stated many times that I had reservations voting Dice.

 

But it was him or me, and my alignment is 100% as to where his wasn't.

 

Speaking on the topic of making suspects work, I am not going to let you get out of explaining your scum read on Nolder.

 

 

I did in my reads list already didnt I?

 

I dont care what you "think" youre gonna make me do.  Youre case on me is garbage, coupled with my reservations with you D1

 

[v] AJ [/v]

 

Will switch to Nolder if need be.

 

Baring something crazy, only places my vote goes today.

 

 

Up to this point he had argued with AJ (which is good if he had in fact tracked him to Yates n1). I get that he chooses other reasons for voting AJ, if he wanted to stay hidden.

 

BUT

 

Would he in the same post say that he can switch to Nolder if needed? Doesn´t look good. I will continue to read.

[Niniel]

 

Weak response.

 

Again, you're waffling on your reads.

 

It's cool though, this will get resolved one way or another.

 

Show me where i waffled on my reads?

 

Its gonna get resolved on way for sure. I promise you that,

 

And just for the sake of everyone, since I'm sure you're gonna be asked a lot about it: clarify what relation Yates has to me saying you're weak at pushing townies as scum.

 

I did explain it. 

 

 

Okay, this could be seen as he has a result.

[Niniel]

 

No you didn't.

 

You just said for me to re-read my statement and then read your post again. There's zero clarification there and have no idea why you are bringing up Yates in that regard. It's bad enough you're trying to use his flip to vet your reads list, as if that means anything.

 

I called you out on your stale reason for scum reading Nolder. Your response is "well, it's changed obvious." Okay, so prove it. You said you're still willing to vote him so it hasn't changed that much. CLARIFY YOUR READS BRO.

 

I said my reads changed.  Get it right.

 

I did tell you to reread it cause my explanation was obv.

 

Notice you didnt try to disprove the things Ive brought up just like yesterday you wouldnt bother to answer stuff i brought up against you.

 

I have clarified my reads bro.

 

I said my reasoning for scum reading Nolder was in my reads list.

 

lolololololol

 

This is a lot of weaksauce man.

 

Ive said my piece about you,  Its all there.  Ill let others weigh in on it.  Youre going down today AJ.  Imma just wait and see before nailing the coffin.

 

 

And this could be seen as hint.

[Nolder]

The game is on the line, man. Sorry that I'm not taking that lightly. My effort speaks for itself, as does yours.

 

There's no narrative to spin here - you haven't done jack since you tunnelled me all of D1.

I thought the story was I'm acting clueless? Which is it?

[Niniel]

 

Zander - what is the big reason for voting AJ today and not yesterday?

 

 

 

AJ was a suss yesterday but I had others Ive felt were scummier.  AJ comes back today and make a weak BS case on me.  Hes stretching on things and calling me scummy for things hes doing himself.

 

Thats telling imo,

 

Like he said he liked how I handled Len/Hally but I was scummy for not calling Lenlo scummy for his back and forth when AJ HIMSELF didnt do it.

 

He said IM refusing to update my reads well I did I find him scummier now.  Theres people that havent posted reads lists yet and havent even checked in this Day phase ffs.  This is also something he hasnt dont as well.

 

He said IM not answering his questions (I have) but theres been some questions from D1 and today so far he either didnt answer. shrugged off or just said were something like weak or w/e.

 

Too many inconsistencies, hypocrisy, contradictions and reaching that Id never expect to see from Town!AJ.

 

 

Here is a direct answer to my post. He has a lots of reasons for voting AJ but he doesn´t mention (or hint) tracking AJ. Doesn´t show if it´s true or not.

[Niniel]

 

Ill get reasons in the morning, Zander there are a number of alignment revealing abilities in the 2nd post of the thread.

 

Yes there are but youre basing that off of people claiming and unless its really needed that may not happen.

 

 

I didnt say you didnt take any stances just soft ones that seem to leave you an out.  Usually I expect stronger reads from you is all.  Why dont you think Scum!Nolder would go at you like that?

 

Im not saying she is or isnt.  You thought she was a good train at one point iirc.  Just was wondering what in particular you were seeing,

Well it kind of has been a bit since I played last, though I'm not trying to lean on that as an excuse. The game also started kind of slow so maybe I was trying to force more reads than I probably should have given the content available. There's a reason I wasn't trying to make myself the immediate Town leader. Yates was actually right in this regard. Miss you bro.

 

With Nolder I just don't associate that sort of aggression with him being scum. Usually he gets into silly kind of arguments that revolve around a phrase or misunderstanding, and although he did blunder pretty hard on the Tina thing his purpose has obviously been to push the game and cause some reactions. I don't really like the tunnel stint anymore because he could hide behind that as a wolf but on D1 I think he was okay despite being wrong on me.

 

My read changed on Tina when she started posting more. She was asking good questions and has continued to do so whenever she is around.

 

 

 

But that really does sound like an excuse and forcing your reads is not a Town tell and once again is along the same lines of something your calling me scummy for ffs!!!

 

You've listed a lot of reasons for sussing Nolder but you went from pushing him to not pushing him after I said i thought you guys could be bussing each other, then when i mentioned again know youre starting to suss him.  Thats not making a whole lot of sense to me AJ.

 

I can see and agree with your Tina assessment fwiw.

 

 

It made it easy for me to vote you?  Dude you were a suspect going into today.  So no i dont agree with that. 

 

What discrepancies?  Like explain to me the difference in our read progressions?  I havent even did an updated reads list yet AJ.  SO im wondering what it is youre trying to say here.

I know you had your "reasons" for sussing me, but after how I came out when D2 started I made it kind of hard for you not to challenge me if you're a wolf. That's what I mean.

 

Like I've said already, I don't think your progression on Nolder is very good. I also have to question your other suspects. I know I am town, Dice was town, Tina is pretty solidly town imo and Nolder isn't playing like I would expect scum!Nolder to as of yet. I also don't like you linking me and him as scum bussing because I don't think you should've been drawing that conclusion as early as you did. But maybe it's all legit and I'm not the only one getting spun around. I'm still undecided on that, but I do agree that this game does seem pretty one sided with who all is active and who isn't.

 

Another thing I don't understand is your fixation on read lists. You keep bringing that up but I don't think it's the only tool you could be using both to show your progression or read anyone else.

 

 

OK but Tina wasnt super Towny when I made that reads list was she?  Reads list allow us to see what players are thinking about the other players man, its that simple.  No its not the ONLY tool but its a pretty good one imo.  You kept asking me for one on D1 didnt you...

 

I also dislike that you tried using Yates to vet your reads after he got killed. You should know that not every townie is going to be exactly correct, and just because he liked your reads and called you a townie doesn't make you one.

 

I didnt use it to try and clear myself AJ so dont make up crap.  You were talking about my pushes/reads and it being a weak spot for Scum!Zander.  I simply showed you that both a confirmed Townie and a very solid player was seeing the same things I did irt to my reads.  I know I can be wrong and so can Yates, but knowing that I am Town and so was he, that I doubt were all that off on it man.

 

 

Could be a hint on why he is quiet.

 

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

 

Thanks for coming out of the woodwork for that one.

 

Thats reading OMGUS man!!!  You sussed me yesterday for doing sussing you now youre voting Len for voting you WTF man???

 

 

Here's the thing. I am Frog Jack of all Trades.

 

I held out as long as I could D1 to not have to claim and ended up having to lynch a townie to save myself, which sucks.

 

I used an investigative power on one of my suspects last Night and actually got a town result back, which I am unsure of because I feel pretty confident they should be scum but the result says otherwise. The inclusion of a GF in the role list should not be forgotten or ignored, btw - so don't forget this when I reveal later who I peeked.

 

I think Lenlo just straight outed himself right now. He's sitting back, waiting for something to attack, and his arguments this game haven't done much to actually solve anything.

 

 

 

So like I was saying last night before bed, i think all the scum should resolve inside Turin, Lenlo, Nolder, Zander and Leelou.

 

Leelou was my peek, and with multiple roles listed that could screw with my results I would take that with a grain of salt. But I will table her for toDay and we can revisit later.

 

That leaves Zander/Turin/Nolder/Lenlo

 

Lenlo needs to die imo. Out of the other three I would still probably go Zander first for previous arguments but my town reads on those two slots have diminished some.

 

 

 

Why did you claim here man?  Theres only what 2 votes on you?  But what bothers me more is that you claimed you got a Town read but you think she may be the GF and that leads me to believe you obv "think" theres a GF in the game.  It also leads me to believe you know this person is Town regardless and leaves you an out if you get her lynched....

 

 

But wouldn´t he have just said that AJ is lying here?

[Niniel]

 

I'm not playing the odds game? I thought you were sketch before the claim, don't believe it after the claim.

 

You wanna have fun with this? CPR Doc. Let's have some fun.

 

 

 

Who is your character

Does it matter? Theme info doesn't seem all that relevant.

 

Also, it's Magus.

 

 

WHY ARE PEOPLE CLAIMING???!!!

 

Fake claims or not, I still want the info out there.

 

You want PR's to out themselves, thats a Pro Town idea.  And I know how bad this is cause Ive done this as Town when confused and got jumped over for it on GnD.  The difference being is that, that game was a Cult game and my first one at that and a AIDSGOAT game (thats a compliment Clov <3) and that this isnt and you should not be encouraging this here.

 

 

As for rolea, I didn't submit N1. I'm treating it as a vig role, cause I don't wanna gamble on killing important towns.

 

 

Ahhhh, ok. I see how it can be used now.

 

Len, basically a vig, isn't that his go to claim?

 

It is kinda he claimed x1 Vig in GnD and x1 Doc ? i think in Matrix.  It was x1 one something.

 

FML.

 

 

 

 

Who is your character

You shouldn't care.

 

Your push on Lenlo might backfire here.

No kidding.

 

 

Unless ofc AJ is scum then his plan worked perfectly.

 

 

Being against people outing themselves.

[Niniel]

 

I will be sincerely blown away if Tina is a wolf this game. I'm not trying to say she isn't capable of this kind of play but I would be really surprised based on what I've seen wolf!Tina look like.

 

Lenlo's cockiness would make sense if he knew he was sitting on a PR. Still think he's kind of a lame duck though - so much time was wasted arguing with Hallia over stupid stuff.

 

Dude stop calling it stupid stuff.  Just because you dont agree or like it or think its smart doesnt make it stupid.

 

Zander, you can stfu already bro.

 

If you're a villager you shouldn't be anymore proud atp. If you're a wolf then congrats, you got your ML and on PR nonetheless. You can continuing arguing mundane points but it's only going to come back to bite you later.

 

JFC man youre starting to make me mad.  You posted oh im surprised/worried? or something to that effect that I wasnt here posting and now youre tellimg me to STFU.

 

Im pointing out what I see and dont really give a crap what you think of it tbqh.

 

Im not being proud of anything.  Im playing the game to the best of my abilities and Ill own up to it and accept the consequences if Im wrong.  But crap like this wont dissuade me at all.   Its only continuing to make me think Im right on you.

 

 

If he is wrong? He shouldn´t even consider that, right?

[Niniel]

 

Alright, well idgaf anymore.

 

Zander if you're scum then you win. If you're town then I'm sorry and I'm disappointed in both of us.

 

Sorry I blew it, townies.

 

Dude if Im wrong prove it.  You havent yet.  i hate this defeatist attitude.

 

@ Zander

 

re: Tina - this isn't like her to essentially ignore a claim and go for a lynch anyway

 

re: AJ - I said I don't know what to do with him because of all this AtE he's tossing out.  Like, every other post, lol.  I had him as a scum read, but then he's said stuff I like, but I'm still cautious.  And I'm not certain what this level of AtE means for him.  I don't think I recall him doing this in past games with him.

 

I dont know what to make of the AtE either other then the fact I dont like it,

 

 

I read Thane's posts first since there aren't many. Questions for Thane:

 

1. When you voted me it was because I interacted with others instead of Nolder (?) and that you wanted me to post more. When I got back you unvoted me because, well, because I came back and posted. But was I still a suspect because of the Nolder thing? What do you think about me now?

 

2. In # 243 you listed Turin as town. In # 572 you said Verb is town. In # 705 you say that you want to take a look at Verb, Hally and Turin. But in # 742 you again have Turin and Verbal as town. Can you explain this?

1. lemme catch up and get back to you (which will be madness, seeing DL is soon)

2. Townleans can still be investigated, just to be sure. 

 

 

Give us some thoughts and reads brother,

 

 

@ Tina

 

 

Honest question:  are you going anywhere with this line of questioning?  You said it might not be important....if you feel that way, what is your intent, then?

 

Verb where are you going with this?  DO you think she has an agenda or is just legit trying to figure you out?

 

 

 

 

Alright, well idgaf anymore.

Zander if you're scum then you win. If you're town then I'm sorry and I'm disappointed in both of us.

Sorry I blew it, townies.

 

Why this attitude?  You're 3/6 to lynch right now, so why aren't you fighting harder?  I don't understand this "give up" attitude from you, as I've never seen it from you before.

 

Talk to me.  Tell me your problems, and what keeps you up at night.  My hourly rate is very reasonable.

I'm frustrated. At myself, at the game. I have been fighting, I've been under pressure since D1 and I barely made it out alive without having to claim lol. My reads have been crap and I've tried to force the game to my detriment and made a lot of bad reads because of that. I've burned my town equity. Even if I am just 3/6 it's hybrid hammer so unless people come in and start voting I'm a goner. Those three on me have already made it clear they probably won't move so there's not much else I can do on my own.

 

It is what it is.

 

 

What pressure have you really been under since Day 1 tho?  You were only a suss to me. Where you even voted?  Id dont get that comment really

 

 

Bolded: doesn´t sound like it comes from someone who have tracked AJ and knows he is mafia.

[Niniel]

 

@ Zander

 

If I told you AJ was off the table, what would you say?

 

Id say tell me why.  Id keep my Nolder read and keep looking at others.

 

Im not voting Hallia at all this game.  If she pulled that claim and played this involved as Scum, Ill tip my hat to her straight up.

 

Lenlo is seeing what Im seeing and Im certainly not willing to vote him today.

 

Id like to hear more about and from Leelou cause shes not been around.  ive asked you for some more detail on her.

 

Turin Ive read wrong in like every game we played.  he's slight towny for me.

 

So Id prolly vote Nolder and Ill look harder at Leelou Thane and Turin.

 

I feel youve been Townyish thus far.  Im a little interested in your progression on Tina so Ill see what shakes out there,

 

 

 

Should also be noted that both Zander and Nolder think I am scum with the other and yet have barely interacted at all this game.

 

Who really has interacted with Nolder a lot this game.  Better yet, what has Nolder really said at all this game.

 

 

 

Should also be noted that both Zander and Nolder think I am scum with the other and yet have barely interacted at all this game.

I'd like people to weigh in on this.

 

working on it, AJ. Writing a commented reads list at this point.

 

I just read last few pages and it is nearing my time to sleep. I will be back in the morning for DL.

 

Not sure what to make of AJ. I think I will Sleep on it.

 

[V] Thane [/v]

 

He is my other choice Anyway. Maybe competing trains to force some opinions?

 

Good night.

[v] Turin [/v]

 

I'll get to reasoning in a moment.

 

 

Interesting.

 

 

Bolded: doesn´t seem like he is sure.

[Niniel]

 

You say yourself you've been wrong on him a lot so how can you be so confident as to say he's scum and we're scum together? You disprove your own points.

 

Im not disproving anything concerning my own points.  Youve said Ive skirted around him,  Im saying I feel stronger concerning you.

 

 

He would say this if had viewed him

 

OR

 

if Nolder is him mafia buddy.

[Niniel]

 

humor me, Zan, I'm tired

 

Nolder sorry thought it was obv.

 

 

Here he takes a clear stand so if he and Nolder is mafia together it was best to let it go to random. Him voting Thane wouldn´t go after this post.

[Niniel]

@ Leelou would you be alarmed if Verb came back and was still worried?

 

@ AJ are you saying if it wasnt for Lee's game play you'd believe the peek?

 

This is strange.

[Niniel]

 

I had a few people I mulled over. Part of the deciding factor WAS the fact you'd be gone and had been so I wanted a result immediately.

 

 

Why not me?  You were sussing me D1 an voted me 1st thing D2.

 

 

But here he continues to doubt AJs claim.

[Niniel]

 

 

Verb please talk to me about Leelou.

 

Im thinking she may be Scum with AJ and Nolder.

 

Id like your thoughts please.

 

I'm waiting for day.

 

 

 

Me too.  If Im dead please instalynch AJ.

 

 

Possible hint to show that he is the one he tracked.