[Basic] Supernatural Mafia ~ Game Over ~ Town Wins!!!

[Eldrick4221]

You have slotted into sooh's spot. You are no longer town. Your play has changed drastically.

[BFG]

General thoughts, I'm mostly trying to not comment on stuff that's already been commented on

 

Nyn says pretty much everything I thought about Pral

 

Zander - given I've subbed in for Sooh twice as town I'm going to ignore that aspect of it. Can you point me to games in which she builds cases as mafia? I don't recall that from Star Wars or American Gods, she seemed more passive and added to other peoples case rather than started her own

 

Lily - would you still have voted Nolder if it you'd realised it was hybrid hammer?

 

I'm unsure as to why Laine is so angry/annoyed at being asked to explain her vote on her at that point third strongest read as to 'if it matters' well, yes, the same way Sooh voting Nolder over Zander 'matters' /shrug

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

Nyn, they are not out of wtl. My current best guesses for mafia are the people I listed. No one in this game is clear.

 

If I live through this day I may make another complete list. I wonder who will even read it. Frankly, it gets annoying to make the lists when most will only look at them after I'm dead unless it is to say how bad they are. I really don't understand how you can say somwones reads are bad when you only know your own alignment and anyone that dies and flips. People said my previous reads were bad but a lot of people have echoed them Later. You might be able to say that you don't understand how I got somewhere but the read itself is either correct or not and only the mafia really know who is on their team.

So be a good fella and tell us who your Scummates are then.

Why, oh, why, can we not rep posts here?

lily, why do you think I'm mafia? Use your own words not regurgitate the case others have made. Show where your view changed If you can.

I'd like to see anyone do this. It's almost impossible to say a reason for someone to be scum after other people have said their reasons AND come up with a reason that hasn't been mentioned.

 

Ofc people regurgitate reasons. When they are sound reasons, people see it and agree. It's not perfect, obviously, but it's how the game works.

 

I'm suspicious of you for the reasons already stated. They were stated well and are convinving.

 

But, for the sake of a counter train, I'm staying on Thane. He's the other person in my PoE right now, but it's because everyone else is townier to me, not cuz I'm convinced he's scum, like I am you.

 

We need two trains, in case we are wrong about you. We need something to analyze votes against.

 

Nolder was town. So many people thought he was scum, that we don't have a train to compare his to. Several people think you're scum, but I don't want D3 to be a repeat of D2.

[BFG]

 

Votes on Nolder:

I included all votes, even the ones who later unvoted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kind of a weird switch by Lily IMHO, willing to pursue.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Lily[/v]

I'm giving Zander the benefit of the doubt, since he said it was a joke, but not ruling him as scum out yet. What's weird about that?

 

It's the timing and also I don't agree with your vote.

 

Your vote on Alanna came right after Zander's but with enough time between to make me think it wasn't just a coincidence or fluke.

I also don't agree that Alanna seems to be pushing a scummate's case...or any case really she just said Eldrick seemed awkward.

If she had voted maybe I'd agree but she didn't.

 

To me it looks way more likely that you and Zander would be scummate's who distanced and then jumped on the same person than it does that Alanna and Sooh are scummates.

 

Previous post post I quoted had you saying you were Voting Alanna for not voting. Now you are saying that you would understand how she would look bad if she had voted yet you voted for the opposite reason. You further used this a reason to vote someone else. It looks to me like you were just looking for anything to take your vote off Alanna.

 

[unvote]

[V] Nolder

 

 

 

We know he was town

I'm actually gonna switch up and [unvote] [v]Nolder[/v] because I want some pressure there

 

 

 

Zander I think you and I need to have a talk.

 

Ok whats up?

 

Not much, I just like to clear or condemn you early and I'd like to be able to do it soon.

 

Let's try some questions...

 

Gun to head which one person of the following people would you absolutely not let into the village right now: Sooh, Pral, Alanna, Thane, Eldrick.

 

Why these people specifically?

 

 

Nolder that's a terrible question when he's already mentioned scum reads on 2/5 and has null-town the rest lol

it is but its ok. I wanna see where he goes with this.

 

 

@Nol- Why Pral?

 

Sorry everyone woke up and is talking to me now.

The thing about Pral, and I don't mean to be insulting, even when he's town I don't find his posts that helpful or insightful 90% of the time.

He's just kind of there. So that's more meta than anything else but that's why I chose him.

 

That's a terrible reason.

+1 on it being a terrible reason. you don't find him helpful as town, so you want to lynch him for not being helpful.

 

[v]Nolder[/v]

 

Later retracted due to misunderstanding, iirc

[v]Nolder[/v] wakey wakey, sleeping beauty

Don't understand the reason for this vote. @Nyn can you explain?

 

I've been playing for almost 6 years, I'm pretty sure I know the term WIFOM when I come across it.

 

Things are just as verifiable asking other players but you don't seem concerned with knowing if I'm telling the truth or not, you seem more concerned with discrediting me.

 

Do not lynch Zander

Do lynch Nolder

 

When Nolder flips scum, will you trust me then?

Leap of faith

 

[v]Nolder[/v]

 

@Sooh - I think you explained it already, but would you explain this vote again, please?

I was wrong. I am voting one of them.

 

I noticed it earlier. It's been addressed several times. The fact that Nolder is flat out refusing to give a reads list means something. I want to find out what that something is.

 

[v]Nolder[/v]

Okay reason, I guess

I figured as much.

 

 

Vote Nolder

 

 

Out of all the votes, Sooh's looks the worst

 

I disagree. I know surprise. Sooh voted apparently following town reads. This makes sense if she doubted her own read which IIRC is somewhat typical for her early.

 

Alanna voted for "pressure" and kept it there all day only cheering on the lynch and saying he was acting "weird and confused". Guess what? He is Nolder.

 

Eldrick voted twice with bad reasoning each time. First about the Pral thing and second because Nolder didn't claim. Nolder almost never claims. That was dropping a vote for a policy reason And because he was upset at Nolder not for a true game reason.

 

Zander basically dropped in with the crowd. I.know.I'm town so I know his other choice D1 was wrong too. His Sooh case is basically that her case on him was bad.

 

Nyn voted him tauntingly, possibly because she knew she could push his lynch through because he is Nolder and reacts poorly sometimes to pressure, especially as town.

 

Lily, already covered.

 

Nolder, probably worst vote but he was most likely dead anyway.

 

Ok I just tried MQing with the posts from overnight and it broke, and I don't have time to fix it now.

 

The read on Nyn stood out, but is similar in substance to what he was saying overnight about Nyn pushing Nolder's lynch through. There's possibly a tone change, the tone above is more aggressive

 

Turin, ok so every vote is bad on Nolder.s train which are most likely mafia?

[BFG]

[BFG]

 

Votes on Nolder:

I included all votes, even the ones who later unvoted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kind of a weird switch by Lily IMHO, willing to pursue.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Lily[/v]

I'm giving Zander the benefit of the doubt, since he said it was a joke, but not ruling him as scum out yet. What's weird about that?

 

It's the timing and also I don't agree with your vote.

 

Your vote on Alanna came right after Zander's but with enough time between to make me think it wasn't just a coincidence or fluke.

I also don't agree that Alanna seems to be pushing a scummate's case...or any case really she just said Eldrick seemed awkward.

If she had voted maybe I'd agree but she didn't.

 

To me it looks way more likely that you and Zander would be scummate's who distanced and then jumped on the same person than it does that Alanna and Sooh are scummates.

 

Previous post post I quoted had you saying you were Voting Alanna for not voting. Now you are saying that you would understand how she would look bad if she had voted yet you voted for the opposite reason. You further used this a reason to vote someone else. It looks to me like you were just looking for anything to take your vote off Alanna.

 

[unvote]

[v] Nolder [/v]

 

We know he was town

I'm actually gonna switch up and [unvote] [v]Nolder[/v] because I want some pressure there

 

 

 

Zander I think you and I need to have a talk.

 

Ok whats up?

 

Not much, I just like to clear or condemn you early and I'd like to be able to do it soon.

 

Let's try some questions...

 

Gun to head which one person of the following people would you absolutely not let into the village right now: Sooh, Pral, Alanna, Thane, Eldrick.

 

Why these people specifically?

 

 

Nolder that's a terrible question when he's already mentioned scum reads on 2/5 and has null-town the rest lol

it is but its ok. I wanna see where he goes with this.

 

 

@Nol- Why Pral?

 

Sorry everyone woke up and is talking to me now.

The thing about Pral, and I don't mean to be insulting, even when he's town I don't find his posts that helpful or insightful 90% of the time.

He's just kind of there. So that's more meta than anything else but that's why I chose him.

 

That's a terrible reason.

+1 on it being a terrible reason. you don't find him helpful as town, so you want to lynch him for not being helpful.

 

[v]Nolder[/v]

 

Later retracted due to misunderstanding, iirc

[v]Nolder[/v] wakey wakey, sleeping beauty

Don't understand the reason for this vote. @Nyn can you explain?

 

I've been playing for almost 6 years, I'm pretty sure I know the term WIFOM when I come across it.

 

Things are just as verifiable asking other players but you don't seem concerned with knowing if I'm telling the truth or not, you seem more concerned with discrediting me.

 

Do not lynch Zander

Do lynch Nolder

 

When Nolder flips scum, will you trust me then?

Leap of faith

 

[v]Nolder[/v]

 

@Sooh - I think you explained it already, but would you explain this vote again, please?

I was wrong. I am voting one of them.

 

I noticed it earlier. It's been addressed several times. The fact that Nolder is flat out refusing to give a reads list means something. I want to find out what that something is.

 

[v]Nolder[/v]

Okay reason, I guess

I figured as much.

 

 

Vote Nolder

 

 

 

Out of all the votes, Sooh's looks the worst

 

I disagree. I know surprise. Sooh voted apparently following town reads. This makes sense if she doubted her own read which IIRC is somewhat typical for her early.

 

Alanna voted for "pressure" and kept it there all day only cheering on the lynch and saying he was acting "weird and confused". Guess what? He is Nolder.

 

Eldrick voted twice with bad reasoning each time. First about the Pral thing and second because Nolder didn't claim. Nolder almost never claims. That was dropping a vote for a policy reason And because he was upset at Nolder not for a true game reason.

 

Zander basically dropped in with the crowd. I.know.I'm town so I know his other choice D1 was wrong too. His Sooh case is basically that her case on him was bad.

 

Nyn voted him tauntingly, possibly because she knew she could push his lynch through because he is Nolder and reacts poorly sometimes to pressure, especially as town.

 

Lily, already covered.

 

Nolder, probably worst vote but he was most likely dead anyway.

 

The analysis on Nyn stood out, but is similar in substance to what he was saying overnight about Nyn pushing Nolder's lynch through. There's possibly a tone change, the tone here is more aggressive :unsire:

 

 

Turin, if every vote is bad which are more likely from mafia?

[BFG]

Sorry I've got to run

[Nynaeve]

=Ok I just tried MQing with the posts from overnight and it broke, and I don't have time to fix it now.

The read on Nyn stood out, but is similar in substance to what he was saying overnight about Nyn pushing Nolder's lynch through. There's possibly a tone change, the tone above is more aggressive

 

Turin, ok so every vote is bad on Nolder.s train which are most likely mafia?

 

 

It's not just the tone. I provided my case + the quotes to articulate my suspicion on Nolder prior to my vote, which was all conveniently left out. Instead he just acknowledges my actual vote post as if there was no substance to it. And this whole tune of me goading Nolder is BS. I was suspicious of Nolder, I nudged him to interact with him and all he did was react in a manner that confirmed my read. Trying to paint my vote on Nolder as not legit is laughable at best. 

[Nynaeve]

oh and wb =)

[Nynaeve]

Wait... 4:00 am? Where you at?

 

I'm stranded in a land far far away.

 

 

 

Did you answer the questions I had about what my town/mafia flip will do to your view if the game?

 

When you flip scum, I'll go over your spew to see who I feel you might have ignored or distanced. But that's post flip work.

 

If, by some miracle, you flip town? I don't believe It would impact my reads much, I'm reading you as scum for your slot's content, not via scummate equity to anyone else. Obviously I'd have a look at your train. But I'm more interested on intent. If a townie plays scummy? It's a lot harder to analyse votes because, in my eyes, a vote was warranted from a townie POV. So I have to fall back on intent. Zander, for instance, I believe to be 100% committed to his case on you. Which is why even if we end up being wrong, it wouldn't change my read on him. Being wrong isn't scummy. Twisting facts and misrepresenting people or events is. And I don't feel that he did that at any point. In any case, I can't predict the future and assuming you do get lynched and don't flip what I think you're gonna flip.... I can't really answer that fully without looking through all the people that voted and their reasoning, so.... yeah.

 

 

Nyn, how's your dog doing?

 

She's okay. Sorta depressed cause my parents aren't here but otherwise good =)

[BFG]

 

=Ok I just tried MQing with the posts from overnight and it broke, and I don't have time to fix it now.

The read on Nyn stood out, but is similar in substance to what he was saying overnight about Nyn pushing Nolder's lynch through. There's possibly a tone change, the tone above is more aggressive

 

Turin, ok so every vote is bad on Nolder.s train which are most likely mafia?

 

It's not just the tone. I provided my case + the quotes to articulate my suspicion on Nolder prior to my vote, which was all conveniently left out. Instead he just acknowledges my actual vote post as if there was no substance to it. And this whole tune of me goading Nolder is BS. I was suspicious of Nolder, I nudged him to interact with him and all he did was react in a manner that confirmed my read. Trying to paint my vote on Nolder as not legit is laughable at best.

Look forward to seeing it :)

 

and thanks

[Nynaeve]

Look forward to seeing what? lol

[BFG]

Nvm, misread what you said as a case on Turin 2

 

Agreed on the you vs. Nolder, but Turin 1.0 also thought that you vs. Nolder was 'off'. The difference for me between Turin 1 and 2 is the tone, I think primarily stemming from the use of 'taunting'

[Nynaeve]

Let me make this plain. The ONLY person I KNOW is town is me. I think that BFG is most.likely town. Not going there today. BG I have some concerns with because he is a very good player in either alignment. I probably will not be able to say I would refuse to lynch him until after the first mafia player flips AND I can feel confident in what he did on the vote and his interactions with that person.

Call me paranoid, but I guess that is what happens when you know you are town and people keep trying to say your lynch is inevitable and seem to want no part of even looking at anyone else.

 

So you stated the 5 players that you suspect the most. Great. And then end up voting someone who isn't on that list, under the excuse of a competing train. This excuse doesn't work for me at all because all you had to do was wait for BFG to show up after the weekend. She's been pretty vocal about her thoughts irt Thane and her vote would have PROLLY ended up there and given you the competing train you keep going on about. 

 

My problem with this is that some of those 5 you named had a vote on them and you could have put your vote there and see if that gained traction. This day phase is not over. instead you put a vote on someone that wasn't in your top lynch candidates and that simply had more votes. If you can't see why this doesn't sit well with me? I don't know what to tell you. I can't buy that there's conviction to your reads because you aren't following through with them. Frankly, it feels like you're basically FoSing the players that are finding you suspicious and casting a vote that is more likely to save your neck. 

[Nynaeve]

Can you show me where Turin 1.0 said something about it?

[Pralaya]

I am both stupid and stubborn so I dont know what to tell you.  And on the very unlikely off chance you flip Town. It wont be oh whelp. Itll be your slot should have played better.  I mean come on man.  Sooh was super scummy.  Youre super scummy tho slightly less.  Your reads on people have change since you subbed back in.  Your voting Thane who wasnt on your scum list iirc,  So if your Town as you claim and you think Thane is Town then having 2 Townys as competing trains is the biggest Town tool that we refuse to subscribe to?

 

I really hope your Mafia and not just stupidly....stupid.  lolololololol

 

That's a cop out statement. That is like the second or third time this game that you are trying to push yourself off the limelight if Turin/sooh ends up flipping town. Trying to preempt the heat on you. Which is really suspicious when you read the game. This, like others, is a perfect example why or how you have been scummy this game.

[BFG]

 

Lynch train analysis? Nolder interactions? ISOs of suspicious players? Anything? Anyone?

mobile only with poorly small boys so no computer so analysis unlikely before day starts.

 

I don't like that Lily voted just after I asked for a counter train.

 

I don't like that you sort of went #FULLZANDER at him. That Nyn joined in on it when people started to rethink option coming up on EoD.

 

I don't like some people were still absent and haven't really contributed. (Thane , Pral)

 

I don't like Z having just being blindered on going at Sooh.

 

Slightly concerned BG is being so reasonable, quiet and well spoken. Tinfoil might be engaging there.

 

that's all for now.

On a side note...

 

Pointless saying it now since we know Turin 1 as town, but I don't recall Laine actually casing Nolder beyond saying he was weird and pinging and later on saying his reactions were bad.

 

I think there was more following but can't MQ on phone. Give me a sec

[Nynaeve]

If you and anyone else would care to answer this as fully as possible I would appreciate it. Lily, I can see BG shooting me just because I probably remember his game more than most in this one but I can also see how it could be a frame shot. My follow up is how do you think it worked out that the most solidly town read person on a N1 where no claims got outed ended up getting killed? I see pretty much 3. I wonder wHo might end up with the same ones and who believes which.

 

I don't really get why you keep talking about this, so if you have a point to make, I'd like you to make it.

 

You were a consensus town read. That in itself is usually enough to be NKed. Beyond that, I think you were the one who brought up the whole vig/doc/cop/lynch question. Maybe it gave you some PR equity in their eyes. And thirdly, among the consensus read townies, you seemed to be the quieter one in terms of post count. Maybe that served as PR equity as well. I'm usually of the mind that PRs tend to be more careful and less "in your face". Also I think that between BFG, me and you, you were the least likely to be protected. So it might just have been a consideration to secure a NK.

 

Beyond that there could be countless of other reasons, like shooting someone with correct reads to snuff them out or shooting someone with really bad reads, to encourage the thought that they had good enough reads to be shot. But I'm not gonna drown in these reasons because it's pointless speculation. And just WIFOM, really.

[BFG]

U call it like I see it Nyn. That is how it looked yo me. Nolder train was sputtering a bit. You pushed it harder. So w/e. BTW, now that Nolder flipped town who are your most likely mafia and why?

 

Eldrick, if wanted a counter train once I mentioned it, why not switch? You could always switch back if you thought Nolder was best lynch.

Not going to quote every post.

 

Sentiments the same, but the aggression level seems different. I want to see more at this point.

[Nynaeve]

 

 

Lynch train analysis? Nolder interactions? ISOs of suspicious players? Anything? Anyone?

mobile only with poorly small boys so no computer so analysis unlikely before day starts.

 

I don't like that Lily voted just after I asked for a counter train.

 

I don't like that you sort of went #FULLZANDER at him. That Nyn joined in on it when people started to rethink option coming up on EoD.

 

I don't like some people were still absent and haven't really contributed. (Thane , Pral)

 

I don't like Z having just being blindered on going at Sooh.

 

Slightly concerned BG is being so reasonable, quiet and well spoken. Tinfoil might be engaging there.

 

that's all for now.

On a side note...

 

Pointless saying it now since we know Turin 1 as town, but I don't recall Laine actually casing Nolder beyond saying he was weird and pinging and later on saying his reactions were bad.

 

I think there was more following but can't MQ on phone. Give me a sec

 

 

I don't see it as the same as what he's doing now. This is him not liking me joining in, which is amusing in itself because I was the one who cased Nolder. And I think I was the second vote on him? So saying I jumped on him as his train was building was false. It's even ironic because the player that made Nol's train the leading one was Sooh herself.

 

Now he's going on about me goading Nolder. That I should have known better. That I took advantage of his fragile soul and broke Nol's heart. I'm the witch from the west, didn't ya know?  It just feels like he's really trying to twist what I did to reflect badly on me. This bothers me because it's OMGUS-y and it's a complete misrep. IMO my vote is prolly the best vote on that train. Sooh sheeped me to that vote. It's just too lol

[Nynaeve]

Turin was big on lecturing us all about competing trains on D1. Now he re-enters the game in Sooh's slot and keeps with the tune of competing trains. While I agree that competing trains are always good, I think it's a lot more important for your vote to reflect your reads. I feel like he's using the whole competing train deal to save his own neck. He just basically voted out of his suspect list cause... competing trains. But then adds that he finds EVERYONE suspicious, except the one person he knows he's never gonna be able to lynch (ie BFG). So basically he has his options open to lynch anyone in the game. THIS is not scumhunting.

[Nynaeve]

Can someone with more experience playing with Turin give me their two cents? Because I've hardly played with.

 

Can Turin play this badly (and scummy) as a townie?  Because the difference between his play in his first incarnation and what I'm seeing now is like night and day.

[BFG]

Which is what I mean by the tone change

 

He goes from you pushing a sputtering case as Turin 1 to you taunting Nolder as Turin 2. the sentiments the same - he's holding you accountable either way, but the tone/aggression is different.

 

I'm just going to make the assumption that I have 20 odd more pages of this argument to read though :/

[Pralaya]

Can someone with more experience playing with Turin give me their two cents? Because I've hardly played with.

 

Can Turin play this badly (and scummy) as a townie?  Because the difference between his play in his first incarnation and what I'm seeing now is like night and day.

Turin typically doesn't go with the consensus and has scum read on minor reasons which otherwise wouldn't stand out. For example, in D1, he focused a lot on Zander's soft-claim in order to find him scummy. It is something that others don't find bad but Turin would latch on those reasons. It isn't bad, per se, because he is really good at finding deep-wolf because of this. Which is why he ends up dying early a lot of the games.

[alannalynn]

@Turin: why does it matter why you were night killed. Who are you trying to frame by continually bringing up this line of thought? Please explain with examples.

 

General thoughts, I'm mostly trying to not comment on stuff that's already been commented on

Nyn says pretty much everything I thought about Pral

Zander - given I've subbed in for Sooh twice as town I'm going to ignore that aspect of it. Can you point me to games in which she builds cases as mafia? I don't recall that from Star Wars or American Gods, she seemed more passive and added to other peoples case rather than started her own

Lily - would you still have voted Nolder if it you'd realised it was hybrid hammer?

I'm unsure as to why Laine is so angry/annoyed at being asked to explain her vote on her at that point third strongest read as to 'if it matters' well, yes, the same way Sooh voting Nolder over Zander 'matters' /shrug

What is this in reference to?

In response to BFG and others saying "Nolder always confused and weird blah blah blah." Let me make a few things clear. You people ACT like he's an easy mislynch and that he's always scummy and we're terrible people for pushing a lynch on him. Well, I'm sorry that I made a mistake in my vote and went with what my gut and the evidence was telling me, which is that Nolder was mafia. Sure, Nolder is a hard read sometimes but he made NO effort to defend himself or PROVE that he was a townie, so sit down and suck it up, blaming other people for a majority lynch, JFC this game is really getting on my nerves