[Basic] Supernatural Mafia ~ Game Over ~ Town Wins!!!

[Nynaeve]

@Sooh. You said you backed off Zander cause his lynch wasn't gonna happen. But later zander had 2 votes on him. What exactly made you decide to vote Nolder vs resuming your vote on Zander? Inquiring minds want to know.

[alannalynn]

fyi it's hybrid hammer. We can vote who we want.... just.. for future reference and stuffs

[alannalynn]

hey nyn im sorry i dont remember but whats your stance on sooh again?

[Nynaeve]

hey nyn im sorry i dont remember but whats your stance on sooh again?

I did not care for her push on Zander at all. And I didnt like her seconding nolder's FoS at Lily for switching her vote from Zander to you and saying that early distancing is bad scum play or w/e. She's definitely sketching me out.

 

Her abruptly dropping it seemed odd, though I could think of quite a few reasons of why she'd do it so that's giving me a bit of pause. But it does bother me that she didn't switch back to her main suspect when he did gain some votes so I'd like to hear her rationale on it.

[Nynaeve]

As an added note I hated her boohoo low WIM AtE posts but I'm not sure if that means much. But I definitely rolled my eyes at it. Heh.

[Nynaeve]

Would have been interesting to see who would have popped in to land the hammer. So... thanks for that, Nolder.

[Turin Turambar]

Would have been more interesting to have an alternative train as no one needed to do anything in order for Nolder to be lynched at that point.

[alannalynn]

Lots of things would have been interesting. A Zander-Nolder thunderdome, for instance. But that would suck between v-v and we wouldn't learn anything.

 

Nolder-Sooh thunderdome?

Nolder-Thane?

 

NOLDER-NOLDER

[alannalynn]

I'm goingggg to beddddddddddddddd good nighttttt y'alll

[Thane Vakarian]

night!

 

Just checking in inbetween family stuff. Enjoy your weekend all

[Zander?]

Zander I don't mind postcount BUT know that if you aim for 1000 posts again I'll cry in real life and that will make you feel bad :p

 

Im a gentleman and Id never make a lady cry.

 

 

 

Okay. I went back and found the quote.I was troubled by the thought because the line if X flips goon and you pushed him then gambit is a very real possibility. if it came from Alanna who I think is trying to get town cleared in the wrong way it pings exceedingly. I have some of that same concern with you due to the softclaim issue. I have seen enough high volume posters look to get "lock clear" as mafia to lead town astray to always be suspicious when I see anyone looking for more town cred than an action deserves.

 

Since Nol flipped town that is a moot point now however. Does that answer your question sufficiently?

 

 

OK.  But is my soft claim really the only thing bothering you?  And I didnt role claim, I only character claimed but I dont know if that makes a difference to you or not.

 

 

Okay running out of time tonight. Brief overviews/thoughts about Z and Alanna...

 

Both have attempted to get town read for thongs that don't justify a proper town read. Both had someone I am suspicious of (Thane) much higher than I think is justified all day and now are in Alanna's case backing off her lean and in Zander's case trying to dismiss that he ever had him so high by saying it was a slight read and he wasn't "clearing" him. He flat out refused to listen to anything about Thane tho. They both went at Nolder hard. Alanna basically guaranteed he would flip mafia. The Sooh push is not great imo either. Last thing I have noticed is they both have exhibited certain traits of mafia!Cory. Biggest is being dismissive of any idea they could be mafia. The way they have worked together is something I can't get past As well.

 

Bottom line. I see them as mafia.

 

Third member is either Thane and they are carrying him like Cory does his wolfmates, or a deep wolf. haven't been able to see candidates there yet. Shot in dark would be BG or maybe Nyn.

 

You keep basing things off of WWCD (Cory) but if you even read Matrix and the Maf QT, and in WE where we were both Town, I have a tendency to do my own thing,  Cory coined the phrase "One cannot control Zander, you can only hope to contain him" So I think that you using that and a soft claim for sussing me is not a very strong push imo.

 

And I didnt deny having Thane where he was at the top of my list.  BFG said I cleared him, which I didnt.  I dont clear people that early D1.  Dude Im dismissive of the fact i could be Mafia as both alignments and you can look and have that verified.  Also and I think I mentioned this before but even tho an easy thing to fake, Ive only soft claimed as Town before,

[Zander?]

 

Lynch train analysis? Nolder interactions? ISOs of suspicious players? Anything? Anyone?

mobile only with poorly small boys so no computer so analysis unlikely before day starts.

 

I don't like that Lily voted just after I asked for a counter train.

 

I don't like that you sort of went #FULLZANDER at him. That Nyn joined in on it when people started to rethink option coming up on EoD.

 

I don't like some people were still absent and haven't really contributed. (Thane , Pral)

 

I don't like Z having just being blindered on going at Sooh.

 

Slightly concerned BG is being so reasonable, quiet and well spoken. Tinfoil might be engaging there.

 

that's all for now.

 

 

Ive sussed more then just Sooh but you were in my last game,  You remember that thing I did with Len?  I tunnel as either alignment so your point is Null at best.

[Sooh]

 

 

Sooh part 2 of ?

 

 

reaction test

 

 

 

 

Slightly weirded out that BG has called out literally every post containing his name EXCEPT my joke vote on him.

 

 

Well, you did say you had played here before, and my vote on you was my welcome and hello. 

 

Calling you out on it was however a reaction test.

 

 

 

Well, you did say you had played here before, and my vote on you was my welcome and hello. 

 

Calling you out on it was however a reaction test.

 

*itching to say "fair enough"....*

Well said. Seems legit for now.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, you did say you had played here before, and my vote on you was my welcome and hello. 

 

Calling you out on it was however a reaction test.

What did you get from it?

 

That your new avi is going to drive me insane!

 

No, seriously. I don't know yet. I think the fact that he dropped the issue is a good thing. Initial reaction I was a bit meh to, but latest post is better purely based on the fact that he isn't pursuing a tunnel on me based on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, you did say you had played here before, and my vote on you was my welcome and hello. 

 

Calling you out on it was however a reaction test.

What did you get from it?

 

That your new avi is going to drive me insane!

 

No, seriously. I don't know yet. I think the fact that he dropped the issue is a good thing. Initial reaction I was a bit meh to, but latest post is better purely based on the fact that he isn't pursuing a tunnel on me based on it.

 

Before his latest post what made you think he was going to tunnel?

 

It's not an exact science, but the whole, when I pointed a finger at him he just turned around and went "Oh yeah, but you pointing a finger at me or even talking to me in the first place, now THAT's scummy!" (parphrased into basically how I read it) It could have easily turned into a tunnel, at least from my POV. Then again, I don't know BG and don't know how he reacts, but imagine if it was Zander ( ).

 

Anyway, please read my posts today with the consideration that I'm sick as a dog and my husband is the sweetest on earth for making dinner for me, again.

 

 

 

Day 1 is a whole 'nother ball game when you don't know people's meta. It's kind of refreshing actually. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what happened the past two pages? Temporary insanity? Reads like it, sheesh.

??? With regards to what?

 

 

This is a question that needs answering. Also high five on the avatar. 

 

I like Sooh's approach here. She doesn't know anything about me or my meta. So she pokes at me to learn more. Day 1 is all about the subtle pokes and seeing how people react. Underreactions and over reactions are the only meat we really have to go on. 

 

@Turin - I noticed the same soft claim thing but was kind of sitting on it to see if Zander was going to bring it up again or make a big deal out of it again. It always is fishy to me when people bring up claims so early either way, but not knowing meta wasn't sure what to make of it.

 

I think I'm willing to [v]Zander [/v] for now for this reason. Good as any at this point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

this conversation feels very familiar

 

I'm not sure I completely buy Sooh's earlier response either

Buy which response?

 

Oh, and before I forget. Zander, you're not at all Zander this game. You seem hostile, defensive, FOSing everyone (at least until recalibrating with Cory), and I don't see at all the townie Zander that I've come to expect. This has nothing to do with volume. It has to do with tone. You're using vocabulary that seems un-Zander and that is why I'll

 

[unvote]

[v]Zander[/v]

 

Regarding the BG tunnel

 

I dunno, I need to muse a bit

 

I may have explained it in a bad way. Like, I was thinking that IF BG is that type of scum when he is scum he might latch on to that and just never let it go, no matter what I said or did to explain myself. It's possible that tunnel is the wrong word, but sustained suspicion maybe?

 

 

 

My response to # 331 which seemed to break my post when I quoted it:

 

I "dragged Laine in" by pointing out what I thought was an inconsistency in Lily's play. I found it weird how she would go from voting Zander to voting somebody who was pushing Zander. I actually find that that might suggest that Laine isn't partnered with any of the two, rather than dragging her into something. It was Lily's actions I was talking about, in regards to Laine. 

 

Lmk if I need to explain this further.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, uh? Reaction testing on someone you have never played with?

That's a bit [v]Sooh[/v] level play.

There's such a thing as generic reactions, which is what I was looking for. If you couldn't test for reactions on players you haven't played with before, what do you then do to gauge them?

 

Tell me then, what reaction from BG would have made you suspect he was scum? Or what reaction would have made you sure he was town.

 

Generic reactions doesn't make any sense.

 

 

As for reactions. I have later explained what I found after the test. Sometimes, when you do make a test like that, you don't know what you're looking for until you see it. I can't possibly know how anyone will react to pressure, but I can judge based on their reactions what I think their likely motivation is. 

 

So, no, I can't give you a list of do's and don't's with regards to reaction tests. All I can say is how I interpret their choice of actions after the fact.

 

 

 

This still bugs me from both of them and I cannot explain why.

 

BG you said you liked Sooh's test, what did you think of her interpretation of your actions?

 

Sooh, I know you've tried to explain I just still don't understand

 

Essentially at this point my thoughts on Sooh are that she's sounding off, probably due to illness and that means nothing for her alignment

 

I wanted to prod him and get him talking to me, and from that assess his alignment. I am not sure I understand what you're not getting about that? Is it how I read him later? Otherwise can you please explain?

 

It's the tunnelling comment, what you say makes ~sense, if BG was a Tunnelly type player then etc, but given the test was started by you and we don't know the type of player he is it reads oddly. And I can't explain it better than that. I'm keeping it as null for now though

 

His initial reply back was kind of "Oh yeah? You think that is suspicious? Well I think what you're doing is suspicious! What are you going to do about that?" Like a challenge almost. I then explained and he backed off instead of pursuing the matter (tunneling). At this point that has been his response to almost everything, and that is starting to concern me. 

[Nynaeve]

I'm gonna try to squeeze in more reading tonight, but I doubt it's gonna happen before day starts. Gonna give my current yolo reads just in case I am not around for D2. It's in no specific order within every color.

 

 

Mua

BFG

Zander

Laine

Turin

Lily

 

My PoE starts here: 

 

Thane - Null atp. Subject to change pending on what he does on D2. At that point he's out of excuses, basically.

 

BG - Like I said, it's not like he said anything scummy at face value, but something about him just gives me the heebijeebies. He's using black and white scumhunting 101 reasons to place votes and FoSes. I would have liked it better if he looked at other things as well, but his focus seems entirely on that and after 50 pages? The excuse of him not being familiar with most of the players is falling short....  he should be making at least some good observations and analysis. In some ways not having any meta knowledge gives him a more clean view of everything and he doesn't seem to be putting that into use. In relation to the earlier vig/cop/doc/lynch question... he'd be my top candidate to be copped. I feel like he's sort of around but not quite engaged with the game. Like he's going through the motions vs actually making an effort to find scum. The Thane case, for instance, only happened after I gave him a hard time for the weak reasons he listed when he cast his vote there. And his questioning of Sooh only happened after she put him on the spot. So basically those are two instances where I feel like what he EVENTUALLY did wasn't bad, but I don't like that he had to be nudged to do it.

Sooh - I already voiced my thoughts in my recent posts and well before that. My hesitation here is that her dropping her vote on Zander could have been done for self preservation, which isn't only limited to scum, like Laine pointed out. But I just really don't like her content (irt Zander, irt Lily, irt BG). So while I'm not feeling as sure as Zander, her highly questionable content coupled with Zander being able to read her a lot better than me makes me think she could very well be scum.

Pral - I didn't like the way he presented his read list. A big portion of how I read him, because he's a low content poster, is based on that. It's basically his sales pitch. Usually it's a lot more in depth, observant, insightful. Not getting any of that from him this game. Yeah, the read list was somewhat consensusy. That doesn't bother me in particular. It's his own reasoning that make me just shrug. I think he posted a couple more times after that... need to check those posts out... but for now, not the best feels. I'd say he's a good vig/cop target as well to be able to resolve his slot.

Eldrick - Just ugh. I wouldn't even know where to begin. I spent early game mostly just zoning him out. His exchange with Turin was pointless. I was like... derp is gonna derp. But his nudge at my content came out of no where and was basically echoing/second Turin and made me go huh?. He ended up looking the fool when he did the research and proved himself wrong. But I still did not like the entire thing. I am not a huge fan of his vote transitions irt Nolder... vote... unvote... considering lynching Zander or Nolder...considering it v/v violence.... then going back to voting Nolder. And while I think Nolder deserved to be voted.... and while there's nothing inherently wrong in changing votes...... I just really don't like this. It's one thing to change your mind but here it feels like he never actually sticks with any of his stances. It's sort of like fence sitting, in a way. He's being so highly erratic that you don't even know what he's thinking at any given time and that gives him the freedom to jump pretty much on anything because... derp is gonna derp. Honestly I'm at a point where no, I'm not just gonna give him the loleldrick pass. Also a good vig/cop option, imo.

[Zander?]

Zander ISO is

 

 

TLDR: he comes out better from the Sooh argument than Sooh, he prods a few people both before and on going but focuses on Sooh pretty early, and that's the majority of his content. Biggest sticking points are still the early reads list that doesn't match his previous thoughts in thread and the Thane read in particular the repeated 'look elsewhere, Thane's self resolving' comments, but this is what it is at this stage. There isn't much in here that I feel I can get an accurate read from yet.

 

Not in my willing to lynch pile, but I can't clear him. If Thane flips mafia I'd look more closely here. If Sooh flips mafia I'll probably feel better here, this is complicated though fir both parties as Zander is bus heavy!

 

Whats bussing mean....???

 

Sooh looked awful with her push against me.  iirc I also had a pretty decent chunk of stuff with Nolder as well.

 

 

 

I'm worried about zander's focus on sooh. He doesn't seem to be interested in anything else right now, and I'd hate for him to drive another mislynch. Sooh was sick. Her game was weird. If she's town, give her a chance to show it.

 

 

 

Pump the brakes Eldrick.  I didnt drive a mislynch on anyone ffs.  I wanted to LYNCH SOOH.  Nolder was pretty scummy and you voted Nolder as well so there is that. And Im also willing to lynch you as well.  No way Im "driving" 2 mislynches from you two imo.

 

 

I wasn't calling anything fluff. Merely that I didn't have any issues with it at least that I recalled. I noted that your push at Nolder had an air of shouting down resistance which I don't like as a style. My point about Nolder being mislynched loads was that Z was using that as a defense of Thane but disregarding it in his move to Nol.

 

That line about going back and .... Is just as unhelpful as Nolder refusing to give reads and committing seppuku.

 

Say what?

[Sooh]

 

 

 

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Nolder(7): Alannalynn, Nynaeve, Sooh, Zander, Eldrick, Lily, Nolder

Sooh(1): Pralaya

Thane(2): BFG, bgrishinko

Zander(1): Turin

 

Not Voting: Thane

 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

 

 

That's a lyyyyyyyyyyynch.

Ok from memory as I don't have time to read back now.

 

Laine voted because Nolder was 'pinging' the way he does when mafia. If I recall she doesn't actually expand on this (or at least Nolder never responds to her and he responded to everyone else)

 

Nyn voted and cased Nolder and pushed him once she started. Probably the best vote on the train

 

Sooh's vote shifted the trains from 2-2-2-2 to make Nolder 3, so was the swing vote and was unexplained on somebody who was null on her list and making the same case she did.

 

Zander's vote was a compromise(?) and was accompanied by an extended argument with Nolder. Called Nolder weird and again never explained what he meant by that at the point he said it

 

Eldrick's vote was because he didn't like Nolder refusing to cooperate, not a great reason, but in line with Eldricks play as either alignment.

 

Lily's was because??? I actually can't remember the reason - earlier she'd said Nolder/Zander/Eldrick, Eldrixk wasn't a viable option at that point, she says Nolder scummy for a couple of reasons but I'm not sure what???

 

Nolder hammers

 

Pral's vote on Sooh isn't surprising, by which I mean Pral has a habit of missing EOD and ending up on his own in a vote.

 

I need to check BGs vote but superficially I obviously don't have a problem with it

 

Turin's vote is fine, checking Turin is the absolute bottom of my priority list this game.

 

Thane didn't vote - had mafia reads on Nolder/Eldrick

 

 

 

 

Lily can you explain what it was you didn't like about Nolder?

 

Same for Laine (more specifically than 'pings')

 

Sooh, why did you vote Nolder over Zander?

 

On the train Nyn looks fine.

 

Objectively Sooh looks the worst - but this is only true if the other trains available aren't all town. Not just for being the swing vote, but because her top mafia read was an option and she voted a null instead.

 

Off wagon, Thane looks the worst, but not really because of the lack of vote :p

 

Because two players (Nyn and Laine) who I believed to be town pretty much guaranteed that he'd turn up scum. I wasn't confident enough in neither my own read of him nor the fact that I agreed with him about Zander for that to save him. Wrong decision, clearly, but it is what it is.

[Nynaeve]

Would have been more interesting to have an alternative train as no one needed to do anything in order for Nolder to be lynched at that point.

 

I mean you can sit there and b**ch about it repeatedly, or you can get off your butt and actually do something productive? just sayin'

[Turin Turambar]

Didn't read it. Not gonna read It. It is irrelevant. This is self meta which again means you are aware of it which means you can manipulate it. Just like the line of "I have only soft claimed as town". There will be a first time for everything. As to Thane, you can say he was only a slight read but you treated him in a manner to suggest otherwise. Your reasoning for the read is imo weak. Not sure if it how it reflects on his alignment but I think it looks bad on you. About Cory influence, in those other games you were not looking for guidance and ways to possibly improve your game from him so those comparisons would also be irrelevant.

 

Hypothetical question: Sooh gets a town cop view tonight, who is your next best candidate? Why?

[Nynaeve]

At this point that has been his response to almost everything, and that is starting to concern me. 

 

That's what I've pointed out in his ISO. He literally backed off from all of his nudges, short of his latest Thane push.

[Zander?]

Never lynch Zander

 

Probably don't lynch Nyn or BFG or Lily either. Turin.

 

Eldrick might be town'

 

BG wolf equity? Idk.

 

I wont I promise.

 

Pigs might be able to fly, but thats also highly unlikely,

[Sooh]

 

I'm not lynching you, Laine.

lololololol glgl trying to shove THAT notion down their throats

 

I don't really like this attitude from Laine.

[Nynaeve]

 

 

I'm not lynching you, Laine.

lololololol glgl trying to shove THAT notion down their throats

 

I don't really like this attitude from Laine.

 

 

I forgot to mention this earlier... but there is more than one way to shove it in.

[Sooh]

@Sooh. You said you backed off Zander cause his lynch wasn't gonna happen. But later zander had 2 votes on him. What exactly made you decide to vote Nolder vs resuming your vote on Zander? Inquiring minds want to know.

I responded to this already.

 

 

At this point that has been his response to almost everything, and that is starting to concern me. 

 

That's what I've pointed out in his ISO. He literally backed off from all of his nudges, short of his latest Thane push.

 

I know, he's almost too pleasant (which is in itself not a bad quality). 

[Turin Turambar]

Would have been interesting to see who would have popped in to land the hammer. So... thanks for that, Nolder.

So let's blame the dead guy that can't defend themselves?

 

Funny you feel fine complaining when it suits you but get bent out of shape when I mentioned something else that could have happened if people would have thought before just piling on and ending day early without any real EoD.

 

Nolder did self hammer but there were +8 hours left when he did so maybe someone should have been thinking about the long game aspect of the day.

 

i could certainly see mafia on the train.

[Nynaeve]

 

@Sooh. You said you backed off Zander cause his lynch wasn't gonna happen. But later zander had 2 votes on him. What exactly made you decide to vote Nolder vs resuming your vote on Zander? Inquiring minds want to know.

I responded to this already.

 

Can you at least give me a post number? Because I didn't see a response.