[Basic] Supernatural Mafia ~ Game Over ~ Town Wins!!!

[BFG]

 

Sooh part 2 of ?

 

 

reaction test

 

 

 

 

Slightly weirded out that BG has called out literally every post containing his name EXCEPT my joke vote on him.

 

 

Well, you did say you had played here before, and my vote on you was my welcome and hello. 

 

Calling you out on it was however a reaction test.

 

 

 

Well, you did say you had played here before, and my vote on you was my welcome and hello. 

 

Calling you out on it was however a reaction test.

 

*itching to say "fair enough"....*

Well said. Seems legit for now.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, you did say you had played here before, and my vote on you was my welcome and hello. 

 

Calling you out on it was however a reaction test.

What did you get from it?

 

That your new avi is going to drive me insane!

 

No, seriously. I don't know yet. I think the fact that he dropped the issue is a good thing. Initial reaction I was a bit meh to, but latest post is better purely based on the fact that he isn't pursuing a tunnel on me based on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, you did say you had played here before, and my vote on you was my welcome and hello. 

 

Calling you out on it was however a reaction test.

What did you get from it?

 

That your new avi is going to drive me insane!

 

No, seriously. I don't know yet. I think the fact that he dropped the issue is a good thing. Initial reaction I was a bit meh to, but latest post is better purely based on the fact that he isn't pursuing a tunnel on me based on it.

 

Before his latest post what made you think he was going to tunnel?

 

It's not an exact science, but the whole, when I pointed a finger at him he just turned around and went "Oh yeah, but you pointing a finger at me or even talking to me in the first place, now THAT's scummy!" (parphrased into basically how I read it) It could have easily turned into a tunnel, at least from my POV. Then again, I don't know BG and don't know how he reacts, but imagine if it was Zander ( ).

 

Anyway, please read my posts today with the consideration that I'm sick as a dog and my husband is the sweetest on earth for making dinner for me, again.

 

 

 

Day 1 is a whole 'nother ball game when you don't know people's meta. It's kind of refreshing actually. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what happened the past two pages? Temporary insanity? Reads like it, sheesh.

??? With regards to what?

 

 

This is a question that needs answering. Also high five on the avatar. 

 

I like Sooh's approach here. She doesn't know anything about me or my meta. So she pokes at me to learn more. Day 1 is all about the subtle pokes and seeing how people react. Underreactions and over reactions are the only meat we really have to go on. 

 

@Turin - I noticed the same soft claim thing but was kind of sitting on it to see if Zander was going to bring it up again or make a big deal out of it again. It always is fishy to me when people bring up claims so early either way, but not knowing meta wasn't sure what to make of it.

 

I think I'm willing to [v]Zander [/v] for now for this reason. Good as any at this point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

this conversation feels very familiar

 

I'm not sure I completely buy Sooh's earlier response either

Buy which response?

 

Oh, and before I forget. Zander, you're not at all Zander this game. You seem hostile, defensive, FOSing everyone (at least until recalibrating with Cory), and I don't see at all the townie Zander that I've come to expect. This has nothing to do with volume. It has to do with tone. You're using vocabulary that seems un-Zander and that is why I'll

 

[unvote]

[v]Zander[/v]

 

Regarding the BG tunnel

 

I dunno, I need to muse a bit

 

I may have explained it in a bad way. Like, I was thinking that IF BG is that type of scum when he is scum he might latch on to that and just never let it go, no matter what I said or did to explain myself. It's possible that tunnel is the wrong word, but sustained suspicion maybe?

 

 

 

My response to # 331 which seemed to break my post when I quoted it:

 

I "dragged Laine in" by pointing out what I thought was an inconsistency in Lily's play. I found it weird how she would go from voting Zander to voting somebody who was pushing Zander. I actually find that that might suggest that Laine isn't partnered with any of the two, rather than dragging her into something. It was Lily's actions I was talking about, in regards to Laine. 

 

Lmk if I need to explain this further.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, uh? Reaction testing on someone you have never played with?

That's a bit [v]Sooh[/v] level play.

There's such a thing as generic reactions, which is what I was looking for. If you couldn't test for reactions on players you haven't played with before, what do you then do to gauge them?

 

Tell me then, what reaction from BG would have made you suspect he was scum? Or what reaction would have made you sure he was town.

 

Generic reactions doesn't make any sense.

 

 

As for reactions. I have later explained what I found after the test. Sometimes, when you do make a test like that, you don't know what you're looking for until you see it. I can't possibly know how anyone will react to pressure, but I can judge based on their reactions what I think their likely motivation is. 

 

So, no, I can't give you a list of do's and don't's with regards to reaction tests. All I can say is how I interpret their choice of actions after the fact.

 

 

 

This still bugs me from both of them and I cannot explain why.

 

BG you said you liked Sooh's test, what did you think of her interpretation of your actions?

 

Sooh, I know you've tried to explain I just still don't understand

 

Essentially at this point my thoughts on Sooh are that she's sounding off, probably due to illness and that means nothing for her alignment

 

I wanted to prod him and get him talking to me, and from that assess his alignment. I am not sure I understand what you're not getting about that? Is it how I read him later? Otherwise can you please explain?

 

It's the tunnelling comment, what you say makes ~sense, if BG was a Tunnelly type player then etc, but given the test was started by you and we don't know the type of player he is it reads oddly. And I can't explain it better than that. I'm keeping it as null for now though

[BFG]

I can't wait for you to push my lynch and me flip town. Your reads are terrible this game, that's why I think you're town, BTW

Insert bertstaregif

[BFG]

I wanna see BFG's Iso of me, personally.

[alannalynn]

I love getting to read all these posts on my break lol looks like game solving to me!!

[alannalynn]

Now would be a good time to analyze the thread before day happens, BTW

[alannalynn]

I don't actually know how to do this mafia thing

[alannalynn]

Lynch train analysis? Nolder interactions? ISOs of suspicious players? Anything? Anyone?

[alannalynn]

Nevermind, would rather sit here in silence.

[Turin Turambar]

I can't wait for you to push my lynch and me flip town. Your reads are terrible this game, that's why I think you're town, BTW

How do you know my reads are terrible? Because they differ from yours? You were the one that was certain Nolder was mafia. I was asking for a counter train. Unfortunately he got lynched shortly thereafter with time on the clock. I am disappointed that he self hammered. Nolder is passionate about things tho so I can see him doing it if he thought it didn't matter. I don't agree with it but I'm not gonna bash a dead player.

[Turin Turambar]

Lynch train analysis? Nolder interactions? ISOs of suspicious players? Anything? Anyone?

mobile only with poorly small boys so no computer so analysis unlikely before day starts.

 

I don't like that Lily voted just after I asked for a counter train.

 

I don't like that you sort of went #FULLZANDER at him. That Nyn joined in on it when people started to rethink option coming up on EoD.

 

I don't like some people were still absent and haven't really contributed. (Thane , Pral)

 

I don't like Z having just being blindered on going at Sooh.

 

Slightly concerned BG is being so reasonable, quiet and well spoken. Tinfoil might be engaging there.

 

that's all for now.

[BFG]

Zander ISO is

 

Early game there are a few prods at people, his first reads list is largely unexplained by anything in thread prior to that, but this has been covered to death.

 

I don't agree with his Thane read (ldo) and it bugs me both how hard it was to get him to go through and show what he meant by engaged (fwiw he came back with quotes that talked about being engaged instead of quotes actually being engaged - talk the talk instead of walk the walk thing) he also repeatedly says that Thane is self resolving as he gets mislynched frequently as town - which is true, but misses the point. As mafia he is rarely sussed for his actions, he gets POEd if town are cohesive and survives if it isn't (worth noting that he's fooled Tommy as mafia (Tommy being an excellent(!) player, certainly one of the best I've played with). This repeated 'look elsewhere, Thane isn't a deep wolf' has me on edge, possibly just because it contradicts my read, and some of the phrasing just reads really badly. When he does ISO Thane picks up on Thane's apparent contradictory stance on Turin being 99.8% clear while having questions...

 

Our disagreement here is what it is.

 

 

He IS the first person to call Nolder 'weird' (in his reads list) when he has Nolder as null. I can't see any examples of that posted. The whole argument with Nolder is hard to read via ISO's. Essentially Nolder asks Zander to provide examples of what he means by weird, Zander says 'weird' and that other people agree. Zander asks Nolder to provide quotes of 'hostile' Nolder tries and they end up arguing peoples interpretation of tone (not sure how else to describe it).

 

 

A LOT of his ISO is about Sooh, he calls her out early for not being her normal town self while (despite?) acknowledging that she's sick. He then calls her on her case of him, and although I don't agree with the case itself as it's primarily 'tone' based (which I'm treating null this game), Nolder just flipped 'town' saying similar things so reading Zander as aggressive/hostile and assigning it scummy instead of playstyle change is clearly a town process. The bigger issues come with removing the vote while keeping the read, calling him scummy for perceived bad play that we've seen him do as town and the jabs last night. I wish I had a clearer handle on Sooh to judge here, I can see Zanders 'final' angle more easily than the start of the case.

 

I really don't like the argument 'come back and tell me Alanna and I are the scummiest 2 players in the game' but it's a gut reaction that isn't alignment indicative.

 

As far as I can tell, his read on Eldrick comes from his early reaction to Zanders 'joke' post, that didn't read like a joke post. He also defends Nyn against Eldricks 'fluff' accusation which is meh. He doesn't address my opinion once I've explained it which is meh. I will say that Eldrick had a LOT more content as town in Star Wars, he also had a LOT more content as mafia in Ragnarok, so I'm treating that as null.

 

He seems extremely conscious of how he's being perceived, he asks a player repeatedly what a different player saying something about Zander makes them feel about him. I don't really recall this from him before either.

 

Talks about not being town read in GnD - a weird start to game where he was run up early for no reason, was defensive all game and annoyed a lot of people with trying to clear himself via borderline role pm matching.

 

Talks about not being town read in NBC - a weird start to game where he was absent due to RL and given a lot of leeway to get back into the game, was easily town read by end Day 1 anyway.

 

So I'm not sure how relevant either of the examples are. He was also miscleared in Belichick (till POE), Matrix (and won), Diablo (by some players till peeked)

 

 

The early game prod of me felt like an argument we had last game. I'm not seeing the same 'struggle' to read me this game he had last game, whether that's because he did meta research last game that he's remembering this game, or because of Cory's influence I'm not sure, but I don't think it means much.

 

 

 

TLDR: he comes out better from the Sooh argument than Sooh, he prods a few people both before and on going but focuses on Sooh pretty early, and that's the majority of his content. Biggest sticking points are still the early reads list that doesn't match his previous thoughts in thread and the Thane read in particular the repeated 'look elsewhere, Thane's self resolving' comments, but this is what it is at this stage. There isn't much in here that I feel I can get an accurate read from yet.

 

Not in my willing to lynch pile, but I can't clear him. If Thane flips mafia I'd look more closely here. If Sooh flips mafia I'll probably feel better here, this is complicated though fir both parties as Zander is bus heavy!

[BFG]

Lynch train analysis? Nolder interactions? ISOs of suspicious players? Anything? Anyone?

Your lynch train analysis is???

[BFG]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Nolder(7): Alannalynn, Nynaeve, Sooh, Zander, Eldrick, Lily, Nolder

Sooh(1): Pralaya

Thane(2): BFG, bgrishinko

Zander(1): Turin

 

Not Voting: Thane

 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

 

 

That's a lyyyyyyyyyyynch.

Ok from memory as I don't have time to read back now.

 

Laine voted because Nolder was 'pinging' the way he does when mafia. If I recall she doesn't actually expand on this (or at least Nolder never responds to her and he responded to everyone else)

 

Nyn voted and cased Nolder and pushed him once she started. Probably the best vote on the train

 

Sooh's vote shifted the trains from 2-2-2-2 to make Nolder 3, so was the swing vote and was unexplained on somebody who was null on her list and making the same case she did.

 

Zander's vote was a compromise(?) and was accompanied by an extended argument with Nolder. Called Nolder weird and again never explained what he meant by that at the point he said it

 

Eldrick's vote was because he didn't like Nolder refusing to cooperate, not a great reason, but in line with Eldricks play as either alignment.

 

Lily's was because??? I actually can't remember the reason - earlier she'd said Nolder/Zander/Eldrick, Eldrixk wasn't a viable option at that point, she says Nolder scummy for a couple of reasons but I'm not sure what???

 

Nolder hammers

 

Pral's vote on Sooh isn't surprising, by which I mean Pral has a habit of missing EOD and ending up on his own in a vote.

 

I need to check BGs vote but superficially I obviously don't have a problem with it

 

Turin's vote is fine, checking Turin is the absolute bottom of my priority list this game.

 

Thane didn't vote - had mafia reads on Nolder/Eldrick

 

 

 

 

Lily can you explain what it was you didn't like about Nolder?

 

Same for Laine (more specifically than 'pings')

 

Sooh, why did you vote Nolder over Zander?

 

On the train Nyn looks fine.

 

Objectively Sooh looks the worst - but this is only true if the other trains available aren't all town. Not just for being the swing vote, but because her top mafia read was an option and she voted a null instead.

 

Off wagon, Thane looks the worst, but not really because of the lack of vote :p

[BFG]

I'm at my families this weekend (about to head off) not sure how much time I'll have and will be on mobile or most of the time I do have.

 

Laine's ISO will have to wait (again, sorry )

[BFG]

Actually just noticed something in Thane's posting...

 

Laine when you posted your reads list you had Nolder>Sooh>Eldrick

 

And when you voted Nolder it was to shake things up a bit, when did Nolder become your strongest read? What happened to Eldrick/Sooh?

[Eldrick4221]

 

Lynch train analysis? Nolder interactions? ISOs of suspicious players? Anything? Anyone?

mobile only with poorly small boys so no computer so analysis unlikely before day starts.

 

I don't like that Lily voted just after I asked for a counter train.

 

I don't like that you sort of went #FULLZANDER at him. That Nyn joined in on it when people started to rethink option coming up on EoD.

 

I don't like some people were still absent and haven't really contributed. (Thane , Pral)

 

I don't like Z having just being blindered on going at Sooh.

 

Slightly concerned BG is being so reasonable, quiet and well spoken. Tinfoil might be engaging there.

 

that's all for now.

Pretty much +1ing this.

 

I had the same feelings about the counter train, after Turin mentioned it. I got Nolder's train to L-2. He was my best option, but I still wanted to see where else the town wanted to go. Lily voting after Nolder said he didn't have anything to claim pretty much sealed that option off.

 

I agree 100% about Thane and pral. I am moving them to my wtl tomorrow for inactivity. I have them a day, because I know they aren't strong day 1 players, but I'm not gonna let them slack the whole game. Prove to me that you don't deserve to be lynched.

 

I'm worried about zander's focus on sooh. He doesn't seem to be interested in anything else right now, and I'd hate for him to drive another mislynch. Sooh was sick. Her game was weird. If she's town, give her a chance to show it.

 

Only part of that I'm confused with is why BG being quiet, reasonable and we'll spoken is possibly a bad thing. I haven't had any issues with him since the misrep. And him going back and researching my response felt very towny to me.

[Eldrick4221]

Sorry if double post. Net is being slow, so I copied my post. Pasting it here.

 

Lynch train analysis? Nolder interactions? ISOs of suspicious players? Anything? Anyone?

mobile only with poorly small boys so no computer so analysis unlikely before day starts.

 

I don't like that Lily voted just after I asked for a counter train.

 

I don't like that you sort of went #FULLZANDER at him. That Nyn joined in on it when people started to rethink option coming up on EoD.

 

I don't like some people were still absent and haven't really contributed. (Thane , Pral)

 

I don't like Z having just being blindered on going at Sooh.

 

Slightly concerned BG is being so reasonable, quiet and well spoken. Tinfoil might be engaging there.

 

that's all for now.

Pretty much +1ing this.

 

I had the same feelings about the counter train, after Turin mentioned it. I got Nolder's train to L-2. He was my best option, but I still wanted to see where else the town wanted to go. Lily voting after Nolder said he didn't have anything to claim pretty much sealed that option off.

 

I agree 100% about Thane and pral. I am moving them to my wtl tomorrow for inactivity. I have them a day, because I know they aren't strong day 1 players, but I'm not gonna let them slack the whole game. Prove to me that you don't deserve to be lynched.

 

I'm worried about zander's focus on sooh. He doesn't seem to be interested in anything else right now, and I'd hate for him to drive another mislynch. Sooh was sick. Her game was weird. If she's town, give her a chance to show it.

 

Only part of that I'm confused with is why BG being quiet, reasonable and we'll spoken is possibly a bad thing. I haven't had any issues with him since the misrep. And him going back and researching my response felt very towny to me.

[Nynaeve]

I don't like that you sort of went #FULLZANDER at him. That Nyn joined in on it when people started to rethink option coming up on EoD.

 

Excuse you?

 

I didn't "join in" on anything. I made a good case on someone that I thought was being sketchy, I explained in detail exactly why, I explained why his reaction was poor and pinging and I was absolutely pushing that lynch because I was pretty damn confident that he was going to flip scum. His flip, while unfortunate, is not the point.

 

So you know what you can do with that BS opinion? Yeah, I think you do.

[Nynaeve]

Ftr this isn't the first time I see lily sheeping her town reads. And while I agree, in retrospect, that the day could have benefited from more interactions, voting and so on, I don't think putting Nolder at L-1 was particularly suspicious coming from her. Nolder refused to claim, which he often does, so she proceeded. I'm not going to crucify her for it, because I don't feel like it was ill intentioned, but I do expect her to take her own stand now that we're past D1.

[Turin Turambar]

U call it like I see it Nyn. That is how it looked yo me. Nolder train was sputtering a bit. You pushed it harder. So w/e. BTW, now that Nolder flipped town who are your most likely mafia and why?

 

Eldrick, if wanted a counter train once I mentioned it, why not switch? You could always switch back if you thought Nolder was best lynch.

[Turin Turambar]

*I even. LOL

[Nynaeve]

I named my other suspects in my previous posts so when you're ready to get past calling most of my content fluff and actually reading them, you'll get your answer.

[alannalynn]

My investment level will be greatly reduced. Were there any questions from me in the last page?

[Turin Turambar]

I wasn't calling anything fluff. Merely that I didn't have any issues with it at least that I recalled. I noted that your push at Nolder had an air of shouting down resistance which I don't like as a style. My point about Nolder being mislynched loads was that Z was using that as a defense of Thane but disregarding it in his move to Nol.

 

That line about going back and .... Is just as unhelpful as Nolder refusing to give reads and committing seppuku.

[Nynaeve]

Nolder's flip did nothing to change my reads. He played badly and he got lynched for it. End of story.

 

I haven't had a chance to reread EoD and votes, but from memory Sooh and Eldrick's votes prolly stand out the most to me. But given that they're on my sus list that's not really that surprising. So that could be bias on my part.

 

Generally speaking, considering Nolder's case was so compelling because he was playing like a butthead, I question how many scum are actually on that train. I don't think they really needed to nudge it along that much, considering I was doing all the heavy lifting. So that's sort of on my mind atm. I really don't know.