[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

How about we don't lynch Pralaya?

 

I might need some of you guys to vote with me, and if you're lynching Pralaya that won't happen.

 

If folks have already checked out of this round and I'm wasting my time let me know. But I might need some heroes in a couple hours.

 

Pizza who is your Scum reads right now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wish, what are your thoughts on Celeste's reactions to getting sussed for the unvote?

just posted it :P

 

I read your mind!

 

If Celeste turns out to be scum, all eyes will be on you. How comfortable are you with your read of her?

 

all eyes will be on me anyway, heh

 

I'm feeling comfortable with my read on her because that's usually how I play games when we're together. I read her as town almost with complete accuracy. You can ask Laine/Cass.

 

If she turns out to be scum, all I can say is that I messed up. But atm, there's no reason why I should doubt my read on her.

 

Love the ohhhhh my bad out she leaves herself.....lololololololol

 

Uhhh.... I can be wrong on Penny... Did you know? I used to read her wrong every game before we hydra'd together. Then, I lynched her as town cop a few times during turbos. lol, oops!

 

I would have felt slightly better if you called Zander out here.

 

I made a subtle reference to it at the time, but I wanted to see your uninfluenced responses first.

 

Zander's been pushing a narrative which essentially implies Celeste is town. He thinks you are pocketing her.

 

But here Zander is implying that you two are w/w.

 

He's bringing up mutually exclusive points in his case on you.  It shows a lack of coherent thought.

 

 

 

Am i?

 

Im guessing this is in reference to me?  If so I dont care.  I dont need to be coherent I just need to be right.

 

You need to be coherent if you want people to believe 1) that you're town and 2) that your case has any merit.  If you say "wish-tree is scummy in this post because she's pocketing town!Celeste" and you say "wish-tree is scummy in this post because she's distancing from scum!Celeste", what am I supposed to take from that?

 

Can you contradict yourself while casing someone as town?  Yeah, sometimes.  I want to say you do it more as scum, though I should probably ISO for examples.  This one was pretty glaring to me.

 

 

Shad coherent is prolly not a word people associate with my Mafia game as either alignment,  I build my case.  I make my points and thats that.  Ive said it seems like Wish is trying to pocket Celeste Im pretty sure pocketing was my exact description of it.    As for your distancing comment.  Dude I allow for the fact I can be wrong on Celeste, seeing as after I started to ISO Wish I felt it was much more likely pocketing a Townie then distancing. I replied to a comment of yours concerning that very thing man.

 

I don't want to split hairs here, but look, I recognize that the majority of your issues pertaining specifically to Wish's treatment of Celeste conclude on scum pocketing town.  And I recognize that if you are town, you might still have some lingering concern that you are wrong in this regard and it's w/w.  But if I'm convinced Wish is pocketing town!Celeste and then I see a point towards the contrary, my reaction is to stop and wonder if I'm wrong.  Maybe not even wrong on Wish being scum, if I'm firmly convicted, but wrong on the reasons Wish is scum, and wrong on Celeste.  This would be on my mind.  It would color what I say in relation to the post in question.  You simply pointed to it and said "look, more proof of how scummy Wish is!!!"

 

 

Yes thats exactly what I did.  And we arent the same type of player at all so I dont even understand why youre making the comparison lololololol

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

• Turbo's matter squat completely different game style then a real game.  And as far as game solve in 10 posts, was that on your home site or a site you play on more the DM?  Because if so then not relevant as those reads very very likely Meta dependent imo.
• If its not a good idea then continuing to do so is....not a good idea....come on...like really now.
• NOTHINGS CERTAIN???!!!  Youve basically lock cleared her from the beginning....
• Yes it was a weird focus....from you....hence why I brought it up in the first place.
• You still contradicted yourself and contradictions are scummy.  Its also, like Ive mentioned not the only time you've done so this game.
• But youre not tho.  Youre an I personality playing an E type game.  That stuff sticks out as very odd....ESPECIALLY after the original comment in question!!!

1) Correct me if I'm wrong (I might be), but weren't her solid town reads precisely the two players she has meta on?  Also, do you think this business of declaring confidence in early reads is scummy as a rule, or is there something particular about the way Wish does it?

 

3) You're focusing on the "nothing's certain" statement as if she is backing off her read, but you were the one who injected absolute certainty in the first place.  Did anything about her subsequent statement feel like a retreat from her read on Celeste to you?

 

4) Personally, I think the "weird" aspect was Cass raising it a a scum tell in the first place.  Did you not find that odd?

 

6) Why do you keep injecting compliance/deviation from personality test results as town and scum tells in this game?  Do you think that is a highly reliant method for catching wolves?

 

 

1. They were but she based it off of nearly nothing, very very very early on. I do generally THAT early on.  I mean if you were Scum playing with a bunch of people you didnt really know.  What better then to try pocket those you know or those who are teammates?
2. Dude shes been Lock Clearing her but that makes a comment that allows her to be wrong.  Look back at her and all her comments concerning Celeste and tell me what Im seeing is wrong.
3. I found the whole thing odd.
4. Because it builds on my point about her saying she was more analytical and not gut read.  Like Ive mentioned its been something thats been discussed that Im looking into.  It especially helps when I have really no Meta on her some tho.

 

 

1) I ask because Sili does this in every game ever.  You know other people with this play style.

 

2) You specifically asked her how she could be absolutely certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Celeste is town.  She said she couldn't be.  What other answer could she have really given you here as either alignment?

 

4) Ok.  But you know I'm analytical as hell.  I still drop gut reads.  The contradiction you're seeing is that she has explicitly stated that she hates gut reads and yet she's employing them with confidence.  That could be an honest concern on your end.  It could even be a real scum tell.  But there's a distinct difference between sussing someone because they say x but do y and sussing someone because their personality type does not permit doing y.  In the very least you are really stretching the point here.

 

 

 

 

1. Yes he does.  I feel you can tell Sili does this stuff more as a joke where Wish is confident and afterwards trying to back it up.
2. I dunno I figured Id ask and see what she came back with.  She's the one who was Lock Cleared her, Im trying to press her on it cause I dont believe as Town she does it that quickly.
3. Thats called an opinion and youre entitled to it brother.  You know I pick up on things like that and I tend to be right just as much if not more often then not.

 

 

1) I don't think Sili is joking at all when he does this.  Sometimes lying as town, but never joking.  But we can move on from this one; it's getting off track.

 

2) And you saw what she came back with, and you called it scummy.  My question is: what was scummy about it?  You're calling her initial act of clearing Celeste scummy.  I get that.  I don't get what is scummy about her "nothing is certain" response to you.  What would a non-scummy response here look like?

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

• Turbo's matter squat completely different game style then a real game.  And as far as game solve in 10 posts, was that on your home site or a site you play on more the DM?  Because if so then not relevant as those reads very very likely Meta dependent imo.
• If its not a good idea then continuing to do so is....not a good idea....come on...like really now.
• NOTHINGS CERTAIN???!!!  Youve basically lock cleared her from the beginning....
• Yes it was a weird focus....from you....hence why I brought it up in the first place.
• You still contradicted yourself and contradictions are scummy.  Its also, like Ive mentioned not the only time you've done so this game.
• But youre not tho.  Youre an I personality playing an E type game.  That stuff sticks out as very odd....ESPECIALLY after the original comment in question!!!

1) Correct me if I'm wrong (I might be), but weren't her solid town reads precisely the two players she has meta on?  Also, do you think this business of declaring confidence in early reads is scummy as a rule, or is there something particular about the way Wish does it?

 

3) You're focusing on the "nothing's certain" statement as if she is backing off her read, but you were the one who injected absolute certainty in the first place.  Did anything about her subsequent statement feel like a retreat from her read on Celeste to you?

 

4) Personally, I think the "weird" aspect was Cass raising it a a scum tell in the first place.  Did you not find that odd?

 

6) Why do you keep injecting compliance/deviation from personality test results as town and scum tells in this game?  Do you think that is a highly reliant method for catching wolves?

 

 

1. They were but she based it off of nearly nothing, very very very early on. I do generally THAT early on.  I mean if you were Scum playing with a bunch of people you didnt really know.  What better then to try pocket those you know or those who are teammates?
2. Dude shes been Lock Clearing her but that makes a comment that allows her to be wrong.  Look back at her and all her comments concerning Celeste and tell me what Im seeing is wrong.
3. I found the whole thing odd.
4. Because it builds on my point about her saying she was more analytical and not gut read.  Like Ive mentioned its been something thats been discussed that Im looking into.  It especially helps when I have really no Meta on her some tho.

 

 

1) I ask because Sili does this in every game ever.  You know other people with this play style.

 

2) You specifically asked her how she could be absolutely certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Celeste is town.  She said she couldn't be.  What other answer could she have really given you here as either alignment?

 

4) Ok.  But you know I'm analytical as hell.  I still drop gut reads.  The contradiction you're seeing is that she has explicitly stated that she hates gut reads and yet she's employing them with confidence.  That could be an honest concern on your end.  It could even be a real scum tell.  But there's a distinct difference between sussing someone because they say x but do y and sussing someone because their personality type does not permit doing y.  In the very least you are really stretching the point here.

 

 

 

 

1. Yes he does.  I feel you can tell Sili does this stuff more as a joke where Wish is confident and afterwards trying to back it up.
2. I dunno I figured Id ask and see what she came back with.  She's the one who was Lock Cleared her, Im trying to press her on it cause I dont believe as Town she does it that quickly.
3. Thats called an opinion and youre entitled to it brother.  You know I pick up on things like that and I tend to be right just as much if not more often then not.

 

 

1) I don't think Sili is joking at all when he does this.  Sometimes lying as town, but never joking.  But we can move on from this one; it's getting off track.

 

2) And you saw what she came back with, and you called it scummy.  My question is: what was scummy about it?  You're calling her initial act of clearing Celeste scummy.  I get that.  I don't get what is scummy about her "nothing is certain" response to you.  What would a non-scummy response here look like?

 

 

Backtracking.  Leaving an out.  Listen when you make that kinda of reads early with Confidence then JUSTIFY why repeatedly. then leave an out like that pings me.  I dont think theres any response she could have given wouldnt ring scummy to me tbqh.

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

Nolder, Wish sane question. I'd especially like you three to answer.

Not myself.

Not Celeste.

Not Laine.

Not Cass.

Not Pizza.

Not Zander.

Everyone else is more or less fair game. If I had to choose someone to lynch, I would have wanted to go after Turin, but atm I have no reason to doubt his hardclaim. Meh.

The wolves are probably in the inactives, though I hate to say it. None of the fairly active players have really pinged me.

 

 

Well ok then. So Leno, myself, Csarmi, Pral, Nol, and someone else I'm forgetting.Any one of these are fine.

 

 

Explain what you mean by red.

I was clarifying what she was saying. That it didn't matter which of the ones in her pile were lynched.

 

 

oooooooooooh ok, I thought you were agreeing with her, which didn't make much sense.  All good.

[Cass]

Ok back.

 

Sorry for the massive dip in ITT activity. Here's what's been going on:

 

For me this game is really an exercise in improving my ability to actually Town. I've been waiting a long time for this chance so I'm trying to make the most of it behind the scenes with the time I have.

 

Cory's had me going through the thread assigning "simple" + / - to every post that stands out to me in an attempt to help me get better at determining what's actually likely to be important and what's not. That might seem simple but my head is a messy space and I actually find making snap decisions/decisions at really, really hard.

 

Here's where I'm at right now:

 

I'm floundering, like I always do if I'm behind, about what's the best thing I can be doing ITT at this point. Think I get too caught up on the fact that I AM behind in everything (reading, notes, responses direct/indirect) and the fact that my understanding of the game is therefore not as good as possible.

 

I have no idea what the current vote count is and I'm not fully across current discussion but have superficially determined that:

 

1. Pizza has called for Kaylee lynch
2. There's a debate about lynch/don't lynch inactives (ie Pral)
3. Zander still gunning for Wish
4. Nothing has been done about Csarmi

Yolo thoughts on these are:

1. Pizza has seemed Towny all game but there is a chance he's Pizza Scum, because Pizza.

Kaylee responding well and giving opinions on new content which is positive in any case but null in relation to her alignment. 

2. Pral should not be given a pass today if fighting back is not something he does as a Villager on D1

3. Zander/Wish Irrelevant - Neither of them are in the immediate PoE/slots that should/will be voted out today. Looking at PoE, Wish higher because conviction on Celeste likely true - no great motive for this as Scum. Sheeping Wish somewhat with Celeste read, my own initial gut reactions/recent game, plus zero doubt that Wish reads Celeste well. (Kinda freaky ?chances both of them are scum? - check this out D2. WRT Celeste, has she actually earned her place above Laine/Zander? Laine and Zander both working hard, wavering on both, both possibly Scum. Why am I giving Zander a pass?)
 

 

 

My reads/leans (based up to p. 50 with +/- and then skimming forwards of ~73 when I can) is currently

Shad/Lenlo
Pizza
Wish/Celeste/Laine/Zander
Kaylee/Nolder
Pral/Csarmi
 

This is slightly different to Cory's own reads, FWIW.

I'm going to try something different, accept that there's things I've missed and work with what I've got for now.

 

Current evolution on bottom four:

I still feel Kaylee maybe mimicking scum game - She's fairly passive from what I've seen. Pattern of question, accept answer; question, accept answer; move on could just be Town quietly evaluating, could be Scum coasting/not committing (COULD RE-READ SCUM GAME TO BE MORE SURE?).  Main players I remember that happening with were Turin and Celeste, who I felt were scummy at the time. Possible that there was a fair bit of associative bias with read on Kaylee at the time I posted last reads list. Didn't really take into consideration that Turin claimed Town and Celeste is null-town with a slight chance of being scum in my own reads.

 

Nolder seemed overtly scummy with focus on gun question/catchups etc. Had a lot of gut minuses but perhaps less pertinent than I thought? Not as confident in that read now, since I've been maybe picking up on a switch in attitude (there was some sarcasm at his own early methods etc and recent game skim read showing more involvement in the thread). I initially put him lower than Pral because I was factoring in Pral's inactivity being 'normal' for him. Switch in attitude might be sign of Town Nolder playing TWTBAW early on? Should self resolve if Town so ?give more time?

 

Pral's inactive as usual, initially in the PoE for that alone. I've seen reports of effort at catching up, am unsure how effective these have really been.

I've only played with Town Pral and I don't think I've ever seen him this interested in D1. Can't recall if he's ever been considered for the lynch. 

******** ?Does Scum Pral fight harder than Town Pral to avoid lynching on D1?*********

Csarmi is being more active, but he's still not NOT HUNTING SCUM. Possibly overwhelmed but I doubt it. Possibly overtly mimicking scum game in being too easy/eager to please? (Need to read his scum game to be SURE!!!!!)

******* DOES CSARMI look to please/stay this agreeable with people D1 as Town as well as Scum?

 

 

 

My preference from where I'm at right now would be to 

*** Lynch Csarmi/Pral today ***

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• Turbo's matter squat completely different game style then a real game.  And as far as game solve in 10 posts, was that on your home site or a site you play on more the DM?  Because if so then not relevant as those reads very very likely Meta dependent imo.
• If its not a good idea then continuing to do so is....not a good idea....come on...like really now.
• NOTHINGS CERTAIN???!!!  Youve basically lock cleared her from the beginning....
• Yes it was a weird focus....from you....hence why I brought it up in the first place.
• You still contradicted yourself and contradictions are scummy.  Its also, like Ive mentioned not the only time you've done so this game.
• But youre not tho.  Youre an I personality playing an E type game.  That stuff sticks out as very odd....ESPECIALLY after the original comment in question!!!

1) Correct me if I'm wrong (I might be), but weren't her solid town reads precisely the two players she has meta on?  Also, do you think this business of declaring confidence in early reads is scummy as a rule, or is there something particular about the way Wish does it?

 

3) You're focusing on the "nothing's certain" statement as if she is backing off her read, but you were the one who injected absolute certainty in the first place.  Did anything about her subsequent statement feel like a retreat from her read on Celeste to you?

 

4) Personally, I think the "weird" aspect was Cass raising it a a scum tell in the first place.  Did you not find that odd?

 

6) Why do you keep injecting compliance/deviation from personality test results as town and scum tells in this game?  Do you think that is a highly reliant method for catching wolves?

 

 

1. They were but she based it off of nearly nothing, very very very early on. I do generally THAT early on.  I mean if you were Scum playing with a bunch of people you didnt really know.  What better then to try pocket those you know or those who are teammates?
2. Dude shes been Lock Clearing her but that makes a comment that allows her to be wrong.  Look back at her and all her comments concerning Celeste and tell me what Im seeing is wrong.
3. I found the whole thing odd.
4. Because it builds on my point about her saying she was more analytical and not gut read.  Like Ive mentioned its been something thats been discussed that Im looking into.  It especially helps when I have really no Meta on her some tho.

 

 

1) I ask because Sili does this in every game ever.  You know other people with this play style.

 

2) You specifically asked her how she could be absolutely certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Celeste is town.  She said she couldn't be.  What other answer could she have really given you here as either alignment?

 

4) Ok.  But you know I'm analytical as hell.  I still drop gut reads.  The contradiction you're seeing is that she has explicitly stated that she hates gut reads and yet she's employing them with confidence.  That could be an honest concern on your end.  It could even be a real scum tell.  But there's a distinct difference between sussing someone because they say x but do y and sussing someone because their personality type does not permit doing y.  In the very least you are really stretching the point here.

 

 

 

 

1. Yes he does.  I feel you can tell Sili does this stuff more as a joke where Wish is confident and afterwards trying to back it up.
2. I dunno I figured Id ask and see what she came back with.  She's the one who was Lock Cleared her, Im trying to press her on it cause I dont believe as Town she does it that quickly.
3. Thats called an opinion and youre entitled to it brother.  You know I pick up on things like that and I tend to be right just as much if not more often then not.

 

 

1) I don't think Sili is joking at all when he does this.  Sometimes lying as town, but never joking.  But we can move on from this one; it's getting off track.

 

2) And you saw what she came back with, and you called it scummy.  My question is: what was scummy about it?  You're calling her initial act of clearing Celeste scummy.  I get that.  I don't get what is scummy about her "nothing is certain" response to you.  What would a non-scummy response here look like?

 

 

Backtracking.  Leaving an out.  Listen when you make that kinda of reads early with Confidence then JUSTIFY why repeatedly. then leave an out like that pings me.  I dont think theres any response she could have given wouldnt ring scummy to me tbqh.

 

 

The only alternative option would be something like "No Zander, I'm the seer and got an n0 peek on her."  Basically red is exactly what I'm getting at.  No matter what she said you were going to call it scummy.  That makes it suspect, and a bad question if you're town.

[Nolder]

Sorry I got distracted.

Finishing my post now.

[Shad_]

And this moves Alanna up to dark green, half blue. Don't see her making this statement as scum. I also agree which is why I'm hesitant to vote just yet. Besides, there's no rush we have time yet.

I wouldn't jump to blue, but I agree that Laine was being pretty damn towny last night. Definitely not in my POE anymore aorn.

[wish-tree]

Hello!

 

I'm going to post Kaylee notes from the games that csarmi has linked. 

 

A tl;dr before: Pizza may be right. 

 

In terms of who I'd like to see more content from: csarmi and Pralaya. 

 

csarmi, stop being helpful to other people and do your own work.

 

Pralaya, appreciate the catch up, but interact with people in thread as well.

[wish-tree]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• Turbo's matter squat completely different game style then a real game.  And as far as game solve in 10 posts, was that on your home site or a site you play on more the DM?  Because if so then not relevant as those reads very very likely Meta dependent imo.
• If its not a good idea then continuing to do so is....not a good idea....come on...like really now.
• NOTHINGS CERTAIN???!!!  Youve basically lock cleared her from the beginning....
• Yes it was a weird focus....from you....hence why I brought it up in the first place.
• You still contradicted yourself and contradictions are scummy.  Its also, like Ive mentioned not the only time you've done so this game.
• But youre not tho.  Youre an I personality playing an E type game.  That stuff sticks out as very odd....ESPECIALLY after the original comment in question!!!

1) Correct me if I'm wrong (I might be), but weren't her solid town reads precisely the two players she has meta on?  Also, do you think this business of declaring confidence in early reads is scummy as a rule, or is there something particular about the way Wish does it?

 

3) You're focusing on the "nothing's certain" statement as if she is backing off her read, but you were the one who injected absolute certainty in the first place.  Did anything about her subsequent statement feel like a retreat from her read on Celeste to you?

 

4) Personally, I think the "weird" aspect was Cass raising it a a scum tell in the first place.  Did you not find that odd?

 

6) Why do you keep injecting compliance/deviation from personality test results as town and scum tells in this game?  Do you think that is a highly reliant method for catching wolves?

 

 

1. They were but she based it off of nearly nothing, very very very early on. I do generally THAT early on.  I mean if you were Scum playing with a bunch of people you didnt really know.  What better then to try pocket those you know or those who are teammates?
2. Dude shes been Lock Clearing her but that makes a comment that allows her to be wrong.  Look back at her and all her comments concerning Celeste and tell me what Im seeing is wrong.
3. I found the whole thing odd.
4. Because it builds on my point about her saying she was more analytical and not gut read.  Like Ive mentioned its been something thats been discussed that Im looking into.  It especially helps when I have really no Meta on her some tho.

 

 

1) I ask because Sili does this in every game ever.  You know other people with this play style.

 

2) You specifically asked her how she could be absolutely certain beyond any shadow of a doubt that Celeste is town.  She said she couldn't be.  What other answer could she have really given you here as either alignment?

 

4) Ok.  But you know I'm analytical as hell.  I still drop gut reads.  The contradiction you're seeing is that she has explicitly stated that she hates gut reads and yet she's employing them with confidence.  That could be an honest concern on your end.  It could even be a real scum tell.  But there's a distinct difference between sussing someone because they say x but do y and sussing someone because their personality type does not permit doing y.  In the very least you are really stretching the point here.

 

 

 

 

1. Yes he does.  I feel you can tell Sili does this stuff more as a joke where Wish is confident and afterwards trying to back it up.
2. I dunno I figured Id ask and see what she came back with.  She's the one who was Lock Cleared her, Im trying to press her on it cause I dont believe as Town she does it that quickly.
3. Thats called an opinion and youre entitled to it brother.  You know I pick up on things like that and I tend to be right just as much if not more often then not.

 

 

1) I don't think Sili is joking at all when he does this.  Sometimes lying as town, but never joking.  But we can move on from this one; it's getting off track.

 

2) And you saw what she came back with, and you called it scummy.  My question is: what was scummy about it?  You're calling her initial act of clearing Celeste scummy.  I get that.  I don't get what is scummy about her "nothing is certain" response to you.  What would a non-scummy response here look like?

 

 

Backtracking.  Leaving an out.  Listen when you make that kinda of reads early with Confidence then JUSTIFY why repeatedly. then leave an out like that pings me.  I dont think theres any response she could have given wouldnt ring scummy to me tbqh.

 

 

The only alternative option would be something like "No Zander, I'm the seer and got an n0 peek on her."  Basically red is exactly what I'm getting at.  No matter what she said you were going to call it scummy.  That makes it suspect, and a bad question if you're town.

 

This is why I've all about given up on trying to convince Zander of my towniness. I doubt any response I give is going to make him change his mind until POE says he's wrong. XD

 

As Cass previously mentioned, I think this is a useless argument.

[Shad_]

Wish: I'm still missing a gap of posts from yesterday that I'll get back to once I finish catching up from over night, but I want to hear your thoughts on Zander. Be specific. Use examples.

[wish-tree]

Also, Turin, when you get to this..

 

 

When have I been trying to lynch Celeste? I'm pretty sure I have her as my top town after you (because of your claim and all. If you didn't claim, you wouldn't be on the town list at all, buddy).

[wish-tree]

Wish: I'm still missing a gap of posts from yesterday that I'll get back to once I finish catching up from over night, but I want to hear your thoughts on Zander. Be specific. Use examples.

His progression on Celeste/me:

 

Insists that I'm always w, whether or not Celeste is w/v.

 

Every time I've replied to a post of his, he's called my answer scummy and pointed out contradictions that weren't there. 

 

I find this kind of behavior from Zander to be normal, actually, from what I've heard of his meta from people in thread. But his focus on me and his desire to call me scum so badly could be 1) scum trying to link Celeste/me together, and lynch both of us. 2) town who stubbornly insists he's right. 

 

I think because it's Zander that this kind of tunneling could happen as either alignment, and based on his thoughts and questioning of the other players in the thread, he looks massively towny. However, his stubbornness on me does not look that good for him, which puts him on the bottom of my town pile.

 

+ points for work and reasoning on other players

 

- points for his tunneling of me

 

(I can use examples, just let me finish the Kaylee iso, pls.)

[Nolder]

Nomi - First of all I want to note that he is the only person still at 0. With the amount he posts I find that troubling. Actually as I type that I realize he should be in the negative for some of the things I pointed out earlier in regards to Celeste but I haven't had the time to enter them into my notes. So ok he "was" at 0 and that was bothering me a lot. Then we get into the Celeste thing. I'll try to keep this simple since it's meant to be a summary. He agrees Celeste is scummy but doesn't want to lynch her. I challenge him on that and he says she never dipped below -1 in his reads but then I find a post of his where he puts her as his bottom read. It doesn't make sense not to want to lynch your bottom read. This is a clear contradiction and IMO he's caught scum and needs to be lynched ASAP.

 

Celeste - I despise saying someone is a good lynch for information because I believe this is a common scum tactic to justify lynches when they have no better reason...but Celeste really would yield a lot of information from her lynch. She's been linked to Wish, Nomi, Kaylee, and Shad. I think he death would break open this weird circle of trust going on between these people. That all aside, I don't like how she refused to answer my sidewalk question. She voted Shad in post #500 for his "tone". She unvoted in post #879 saying he's "shaping up". These are vague reasons and I believe that's intentional. I believe I asked several times about her Rustlemania references but never received an answer that I recall. I also don't think she ever answered my question about Shad in post #793 when I asked her to put her read in terms of 1-10. This is all very shady IMHO.

 

Cass - Please note that this is not the case I wanted to bring to you guys. I wanted it to have more substance but right now it's more a bad feeling. Hopefully I will be able to flesh it out more later. First of all I want to note Cass tops out the negative side of my point spectrum with -3 right now which is a pretty bad score for D1 and she got it pretty early in D1 as well. In Post #44 she says she's slightly wary of Alanna and asks if she's a wolf. This is weird because it's only page 3 and Alanna has posted a total of 3 times. There's literally nothing to be wary of. I mean if that's just a joke/excuse to engage and ask if she's a wolf ok but it just stood out to me. Post #109 she explains why she's "wary" of Xander and Alanna. I found the post lacking and full of excuses. She says it's too early to be of consequence but if that's true then why did she even say it in the first place? Post #1386 she voted Csarmi and didn't give a reason. I'm all for reaction testing and whatnot but it seems that 1000+ posts in it's time to start giving reasons with votes. And that's all I got so far besides the fact that she went MIA after being townread early in the game. I don't expect anyone to lynch her over this but I intend to pursue it further and build on the case as the game goes forward. If she's scummy I'll certainly have more to work with.

[Pralaya]

My WTL would be kaylee, wish or lenlo.

 

Actually, I would [v]Kaylee[/v]

 

Late night here. I may be available at deadline tomorrow depending on when I wake up.

[Shad_]

I'm in no hurry. But I want a more firm read on him from you. Stating his pattern of behavior and (relatively) generic reasons why it could be either alignment, you're resolving probably town "based on his thoughts and questioning of the other players in the thread".  That's not deep enough for me. 

[wish-tree]

I'm in no hurry. But I want a more firm read on him from you. Stating his pattern of behavior and (relatively) generic reasons why it could be either alignment, you're resolving probably town "based on his thoughts and questioning of the other players in the thread".  That's not deep enough for me. 

That's fine.

 

Got it. :P

[Cass]

Pulled these out to respond to earlier today but never got around to it. Sorry for the delay.

 

Before I leave for today, I'd like Pralaya to come back and answer my question.

 

csarmi also should show up and play.

 

This vote means serious business.

 

Let's go.

 

WTL: Pralaya/csarmi, Nolder, maybe Lenlo/Kaylee

 

but Lenlo>Kaylee now and Pralaya>csarmi because of how they've acted in thread. I'd like to give Kaylee and csarmi more time.

 

1. Can you elaborate on the bold? 

 

Right now I'm all for giving Kaylee more time, have no idea what Pral's been up to/why you think it's important and am pretty certain Csarmi is a good lynch.

 

 

 

 

lol

 

I actually forgot to make the vote

 

[v] Pralaya [/v]

I'll double down on this since it's seeing some traction.

I like what Pral posted but he's so far behind we need more or it's not good enough.

 

[v]Pral[/v]

 

 

@Nolder 

1. What, specifically, have you liked from whatever Pral has posted? (Why?)

2. 'He's so far behind we need more or it's not good enough' seems reachy - Pls explain why it's important to you/worth a lynch beyond the train gaining traction.

3. Has there been anything of Pral's you actually dislike?

 

 

 

 

@ Wish

 

Laine hasn't done anything wrong, per se, but I've got too many people high on my list for her to be dark green.

 

Using your scale she should be light green imo. If she's a wolf that might explain why I'm struggling so damned hard.

 

I think Cass should be higher.

 

I think Nolder should stop screwing around. Otherwise yeah, that list looks okay. But my reads are changing due to the Iso process. I'm going to see things I didn't notice before. So I don't know. Let me get back to you.

 

 

How do you feel about Cass's drop off in activity?

 

 

I promise there's nothing actually sus Zan but,

 

How do you feel about it? If you have any sort of problem with it just talk.

 

 

 

And about to leave, but before that

 

what do you think of Pralaya's read on you, @Nolder? 

 

@Cass, can you tell me more about csarmi?

 

@Pizza, I think Zander's convinced that I'm a wolf and nothing I'm doing is changing his mind. Not even sure if this is something worth addressing, but I really don't like the situation we're in. Should be resolved by now.

 

I've only played with Town Csarmi. Strong impressions - he is interested and active in hunting scum. He challenges absolutely anybody and anything he finds remotely scummy/stupid, and he challenges them hard and he is not at all easy to please. Completely unlike here, imo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This one is my personal favorite, though.

 

I seriously laughed at this one every time I saw it for like three straight days.

 

I have never found anything more bafflingly amusing.

 

Legit couldn't stop the chuckles. Ty 

 

 

I'm wrecked (did 50 pages of the +/- thing today/tonight) and need to nap again before the day begins. FTR I'll be out from 8am this morning til I don't know when visiting family. I will be back before the lynch and will vote either of the bottom two unless something drastically changes.

 

 

I'm pretty happy with Csarmi/Pral for today, but I've only ever played with them as Town. Need more info on 

 

- Csarmi's scum game 

 

- Pral's scum game

 

I want to know, specifically, if Csarmi being calm, agreeable and eager to please, or Pral becoming active/catching up are tells.

No guarantee I'll be able to get through this until late/at all - input would be appreciated if anybody already knows meta and can share. 

 

 

I can hang around for about 30 more minutes if anyone wants to chat, then I'm going to bed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm here, on page 85.

 

I'll keep this tab open.

[Nolder]

My WTL would be kaylee, wish or lenlo.

 

Actually, I would [v]Kaylee[/v]

 

Late night here. I may be available at deadline tomorrow depending on when I wake up.

Are you basing this on pizza's case?

[Pralaya]

I talked similar things about Kaylee much before Pizza made his case. His was more detailed though.

[Zander?]

Ok back.

 

Sorry for the massive dip in ITT activity. Here's what's been going on:

 

For me this game is really an exercise in improving my ability to actually Town. I've been waiting a long time for this chance so I'm trying to make the most of it behind the scenes with the time I have.

 

Cory's had me going through the thread assigning "simple" + / - to every post that stands out to me in an attempt to help me get better at determining what's actually likely to be important and what's not. That might seem simple but my head is a messy space and I actually find making snap decisions/decisions at really, really hard.

 

Here's where I'm at right now:

 

I'm floundering, like I always do if I'm behind, about what's the best thing I can be doing ITT at this point. Think I get too caught up on the fact that I AM behind in everything (reading, notes, responses direct/indirect) and the fact that my understanding of the game is therefore not as good as possible.

 

I have no idea what the current vote count is and I'm not fully across current discussion but have superficially determined that:

 

1. Pizza has called for Kaylee lynch

2. There's a debate about lynch/don't lynch inactives (ie Pral)

3. Zander still gunning for Wish

4. Nothing has been done about Csarmi

 

Yolo thoughts on these are:

1. Pizza has seemed Towny all game but there is a chance he's Pizza Scum, because Pizza.

Kaylee responding well and giving opinions on new content which is positive in any case but null in relation to her alignment. 

 

2. Pral should not be given a pass today if fighting back is not something he does as a Villager on D1

 

3. Zander/Wish Irrelevant - Neither of them are in the immediate PoE/slots that should/will be voted out today. Looking at PoE, Wish higher because conviction on Celeste likely true - no great motive for this as Scum. Sheeping Wish somewhat with Celeste read, my own initial gut reactions/recent game, plus zero doubt that Wish reads Celeste well. (Kinda freaky ?chances both of them are scum? - check this out D2. WRT Celeste, has she actually earned her place above Laine/Zander? Laine and Zander both working hard, wavering on both, both possibly Scum. Why am I giving Zander a pass?)

 

 

 

My reads/leans (based up to p. 50 with +/- and then skimming forwards of ~73 when I can) is currently

 

Shad/Lenlo

Pizza

Wish/Celeste/Laine/Zander

Kaylee/Nolder

Pral/Csarmi

 

This is slightly different to Cory's own reads, FWIW.

I'm going to try something different, accept that there's things I've missed and work with what I've got for now.

 

Current evolution on bottom four:

I still feel Kaylee maybe mimicking scum game - She's fairly passive from what I've seen. Pattern of question, accept answer; question, accept answer; move on could just be Town quietly evaluating, could be Scum coasting/not committing (COULD RE-READ SCUM GAME TO BE MORE SURE?).  Main players I remember that happening with were Turin and Celeste, who I felt were scummy at the time. Possible that there was a fair bit of associative bias with read on Kaylee at the time I posted last reads list. Didn't really take into consideration that Turin claimed Town and Celeste is null-town with a slight chance of being scum in my own reads.

 

Nolder seemed overtly scummy with focus on gun question/catchups etc. Had a lot of gut minuses but perhaps less pertinent than I thought? Not as confident in that read now, since I've been maybe picking up on a switch in attitude (there was some sarcasm at his own early methods etc and recent game skim read showing more involvement in the thread). I initially put him lower than Pral because I was factoring in Pral's inactivity being 'normal' for him. Switch in attitude might be sign of Town Nolder playing TWTBAW early on? Should self resolve if Town so ?give more time?

 

Pral's inactive as usual, initially in the PoE for that alone. I've seen reports of effort at catching up, am unsure how effective these have really been.

I've only played with Town Pral and I don't think I've ever seen him this interested in D1. Can't recall if he's ever been considered for the lynch. 

******** ?Does Scum Pral fight harder than Town Pral to avoid lynching on D1?*********

Csarmi is being more active, but he's still not NOT HUNTING SCUM. Possibly overwhelmed but I doubt it. Possibly overtly mimicking scum game in being too easy/eager to please? (Need to read his scum game to be SURE!!!!!)

******* DOES CSARMI look to please/stay this agreeable with people D1 as Town as well as Scum?

 

 

 

My preference from where I'm at right now would be to 

*** Lynch Csarmi/Pral today ***

 

 

this is a lot of confusing to follow.

[Nolder]

 

 

lol

 

I actually forgot to make the vote

 

[v] Pralaya [/v]

I'll double down on this since it's seeing some traction.

I like what Pral posted but he's so far behind we need more or it's not good enough.

 

[v]Pral[/v]

 

 

@Nolder 

1. What, specifically, have you liked from whatever Pral has posted? (Why?)

2. 'He's so far behind we need more or it's not good enough' seems reachy - Pls explain why it's important to you/worth a lynch beyond the train gaining traction.

3. Has there been anything of Pral's you actually dislike?

1) I'm just impressed with the amount of catch up he's done. If it's real.

2) I don't understand what you mean by reachy. Can you rephrase?

3) No. He hasn't really posted many thoughts.

[Nolder]

I talked similar things about Kaylee much before Pizza made his case. His was more detailed though.

This shouldn't be too hard to verify. I will check your ISO one sec.

[Shad_]

@Salami, if it looks like you're getting lynched today and you are town, i want you to character claim even if VT.