[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Askthepizzaguy]

Zander who is your number two candidate after Wish?

[Kaylee]

Hello. I had an unexpected issue come up that took me away for the last 3.5-4.0 hours and only made it to page 25.

 

At that point I have been noticing something that looks weird to me. I may have conf bias but it seems to me that there are unusual interactions among Shad, Pizza, Alanna and Wish surrounding Celeste.

 

Shad is looking to link Celeste and Wish. He seems to be looking to clear Wish with a Celeste town flip. look above at Alanna's post. He states Celeste is probably town. Then says he thinks Wish is town and won't lynch her today. How about Celeste?

Wish seems to be White Knighting Celeste. I think it was way too early for her to come out with that "Do you mean your vote on Celeste? It's one vote, nothing dangerous. But you had best take your vote off of her, because she's town. :P" thinking possible TMI.

Pizza says she is struggling but can't determine if it means she is town or mafia. It feels like a setup for tomorrow's lynch. Or maybe today's when he finds out he can't get me lynched.

Alanna just has her deep in her PoE. I think there was something else about it with her but I can't remember at present. give me a few to see if I can jog my memory.

 

 

 

 

TBH tho, there were some things about Celeste that bothered me. Primarily the posts that contained what I would call AtE even tho she denied it. But the way that a lot of people that I have doubts on are looking to lynch her while saying she is likely town makes me nervous.

Who is doing the bold? Please examples because I know of anyone off hand who is calling her town and yet wanting to lynch her. I know some, like me, said they were conflicted about her.

[Turin Turambar]

Pizza and Alanna, If the MOD just posted that I was IC who would you be voting right now?

 

I'm not IC BTW.

[Turin Turambar]

@Kaylee, IMO Pizza, Alanna, Shad and Wish are all making noises like they are willing to vote Celeste over Wish. Let's see once the votes fall off of me.

 

 

 

[unvote]

[v] Wish [/v]

 

Shad or Pizza aren't going anywhere today. I am willing to follow along with the one on my list that I think is viable for today.

[alannalynn]

I'm real time right now, waiting on Laine. I want to do that before I look at Matrix again since she's here.

 

Then I'll check out Csarmi's meta. Though I have to say, I like the fact that he gave me five links on his own instead of just the requested 2.

Hi there. Just a few more pages and I'll be here with you.

 

Turin, I would be voting Kaylee or YOLO voting Csarmi

[alannalynn]

@Kaylee, IMO Pizza, Alanna, Shad and Wish are all making noises like they are willing to vote Celeste over Wish. Let's see once the votes fall off of me.

 

[unvote]

[v] Wish [/v]

 

Shad or Pizza aren't going anywhere today. I am willing to follow along with the one on my list that I think is viable for today.

....Huh? Blatantly false. I have NEVER indicated an intention to vote Wish today.

[Kaylee]

 

 

 

Zander is now firmly town for me. That was some proper work on the Wish ISO. If everyone is still convinced Shad is not a candidate for today then I would be most willing to switch to Wish.

Shad has been in my town pile so I won't be voting him. I'm not sold on you however and I'm more willing to follow my strong town read, Pizza, onto you. Why shouldn't you be the lynch today?

 

I also like what Pizza said about your list right after this post of yours.

I'm TOWN.

 

I'm also very curious about how so many people are so loathe to vote in this game. Waiting for other people to vote first? or waiting for DL to get close so that there will be less time to move votes.

 

Also, My effort level is always based upon my available time. I thought I had more this week. Hasn't worked out that way.

 

 

Pizza is >rand to be mafia IMO but no one wants to hear that right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bottom line is that I'm probably not getting lynched today. I may well be murdered tonight tho.

I like just voting unless I have a more solid feel/lead. That's just how I play.

 

Ok you say you're town, but I'm just not convinced as yet. I need to see moar.

[alannalynn]

Or rather, make that Celeste. Actually, either.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Kaylee imo, Csarmi hasn't done a whole lot.

 

Those would be my two.

[Sooh]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Turin (2): Askthepizzaguy, Laine

 

Wish (2): Zander, Turin

 

Not voting (9): Shad, Kaylee, Csarmi, Wish, Pral, Cass, Celeste, Lenlo, Nolder

 

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

DAY ONE WILL END AT 10:00 PM MST (MIDNIGHT EASTERN) ON WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 6.

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160106T22&p0=197&msg=End+of+Day+One&font=cursive&csz=1

[Kaylee]

Pizza and Alanna, If the MOD just posted that I was IC who would you be voting right now?

 

I'm not IC BTW.

It wouldn't be Shad or Pizza that I'd vote. Maybe Nol. I'm just not sure tbh. I don't have a solid scum read atm. I do better finding scum by D2 or D3.

[Turin Turambar]

 

@Kaylee, IMO Pizza, Alanna, Shad and Wish are all making noises like they are willing to vote Celeste over Wish. Let's see once the votes fall off of me.

 

[unvote]

[v] Wish [/v]

 

Shad or Pizza aren't going anywhere today. I am willing to follow along with the one on my list that I think is viable for today.

....Huh? Blatantly false. I have NEVER indicated an intention to vote Wish today.

 

Exactly. But you would be willing to vote Celeste, Yes?

[Kaylee]

 

 

I'm real time right now, waiting on Laine. I want to do that before I look at Matrix again since she's here.

 

Then I'll check out Csarmi's meta. Though I have to say, I like the fact that he gave me five links on his own instead of just the requested 2.

Hi there. Just a few more pages and I'll be here with you.

 

Turin, I would be voting Kaylee or YOLO voting Csarmi

I'm curious why me when the most you've said about me is that you don't remember what I've done so far. If there's another reason please share with the class.

[Turin Turambar]

Or rather, make that Celeste. Actually, either.

But you have her as your #3 most likely wolf? 

[Kaylee]

 

 

@Kaylee, IMO Pizza, Alanna, Shad and Wish are all making noises like they are willing to vote Celeste over Wish. Let's see once the votes fall off of me.

 

[unvote]

[v] Wish [/v]

 

Shad or Pizza aren't going anywhere today. I am willing to follow along with the one on my list that I think is viable for today.

....Huh? Blatantly false. I have NEVER indicated an intention to vote Wish today.

She actually called her town or at least likely town. I can't remember the exact wording she used.

[Kaylee]

 

 

 

 

Zander is now firmly town for me. That was some proper work on the Wish ISO. If everyone is still convinced Shad is not a candidate for today then I would be most willing to switch to Wish.

Shad has been in my town pile so I won't be voting him. I'm not sold on you however and I'm more willing to follow my strong town read, Pizza, onto you. Why shouldn't you be the lynch today?

 

I also like what Pizza said about your list right after this post of yours.

I'm TOWN.

 

I'm also very curious about how so many people are so loathe to vote in this game. Waiting for other people to vote first? or waiting for DL to get close so that there will be less time to move votes.

 

Also, My effort level is always based upon my available time. I thought I had more this week. Hasn't worked out that way.

 

 

Pizza is >rand to be mafia IMO but no one wants to hear that right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bottom line is that I'm probably not getting lynched today. I may well be murdered tonight tho.

I like just voting unless I have a more solid feel/lead. That's just how I play.

 

Ok you say you're town, but I'm just not convinced as yet. I need to see moar.

Was supposed to say I don't like to just vote.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza and Alanna, If the MOD just posted that I was IC who would you be voting right now?

 

I'm not IC BTW.

 

So tinfoil hat says:

 

This post is mafia prepping a claim, something like cop or doctor. Wants to see if doing so will result in a fellow wolf getting lynched instead of him, followed by him getting lynched after he's never murdered, turning a disastrous day one into two disastrous days for the wolf team.

 

IMO you going to claim, you do it before 24 hours remain in the day.

 

If you claim something, I recommend to my entire team that no counterclaim occurs even if you are the role he claimed.

 

IMO you would also do better by just acting like a townie than claiming something, but hey. You do you.

[Kaylee]

Kaylee imo, Csarmi hasn't done a whole lot.

 

Those would be my two.

Curious as to why. Is it you think I'm scummy or just POE?

[Kaylee]

[v]Turin[/v]

 

Otherwise I'd go for one of nulls.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Kaylee imo, Csarmi hasn't done a whole lot.

 

Those would be my two.

Curious as to why. Is it you think I'm scummy or just POE?

 

 

POE, I got a lot of persons acting like villagers enough to push them up the list.

 

But let's say the decision is made not to lynch Turin. You and Csarmi would both be in the line of fire of my vote.

 

You would need to point at someone above you on my list and show me where I'm wrong about them, to help me see what I've missed.

[Turin Turambar]

Going ahead and responding to this as of p37.

 

 

My list looks something like this... ?

Alanna

Lenlo

Zander

Pizza

Shad

Cass

Wish

 

Csarmi

Pral

Nolder

 

Celeste

Kaylee

Turin

 

 

 

ALANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNAAAA!!!!

 

<3 <3 <3

 

Dont put your own name on your reads lists!!!!

 

What is it about Penny you find that makes her more scummy then Lenny?

 

Can you provide some reasons behind your reads please?

 

Re: My reads list, most of my reads are supported by what I've already mentioned, but I can definitely go through some of the reasons. And YES I put myself at the top becasue of weird reasons where the list feels incomplete... :/

 

Lenlo: top town read: he feels like town to me, and I haven't hated anything he's done. His tone is coming over really good for me and I feel like he's actively involved. The whole exchange we had with him questioning my read of him confirms that this is the right spot for Lenlo. He did a few things that I don't really expect to see from mafia. Unless he suddenly claims mafia, I'm leaving him in that spot.

 

Zander: Dude, you're probably town and we're gonna wreck the wolves. I would probably need a cop view to doubt you right now. I just feel like you're here and asking questions and taking your time to work up to scum reads instead of it seeming like you already know. I think I skimmed a Lenny ISO, but I haven't gotten to that point in my reread yet.

 

Pizza: I think he's pretty solidly town unless proven otherwise. Not going to worry about him until later anyways if he is. Besides, nks may clear him up. Basically, You feel pretty townie, I'm not going to worry yet. I would like a chance to talk to you and clear up my own slot for you though.

 

Shad: I want to slot him town so much but I have a nagging feeling about his slot. Definitely needs an ISO so I can be more confident in this read. This nagging feeling reminds me of how I felt in Pulp Fiction. Doesn't mean I'm going to read you mafia for it, it may just be something on my end that I'm not thinking through. I feel like he's mostly engaged and scum hunting but there's a few things I've noticed that have bothered me.

 

Cass: Same as I've mentioned before, I like that she's putting in work. And work is good, effort is good. That's what's getting her the town lean. BUT, I myself don't feel like the work that's being done is productive. To me, it feels like she's asking questions just to ask questions and appear useful. I mentioned that I would have put her lower before and  I think Shad mentioned that he was surprised I hadn't since I HAD shown reservations, but I'm going to ISO this one and see how I feel afterwards.

 

Wish: Town lean is due to her entrance to the game and the active scum hunting as well as a difference from how she was when I played with her in TUS. I can see a process there and I can see that she's trying to make reads and do something with it. This is why she's here on my list and why she's above Celeste. The one difference between Cass and Wish is that I feel like I can follow Wish's thought process a little bit better than Cass, so I think technically I should have put Wish above Cass at this point. Though, this definitely could be due to me being able to understand Lenny better outside of mafia too. She's like an Alanna twin at this point. If she keeps showing me her work and the effort she's putting in, I'm going to be happy with this town read.

 

Csarmi/Pral/Nolder: Don't remember a damn thing they've done thus far. Csarmi I know has been around for a few posts but I'm pretty sure I keep forgetting he's even in the game. Pral hasn't even posted at this point. And Nolder posted that scenario that he wanted us all to answer but I don't remember anything other than that. None of them have earned reads one way or another but by force of POE, they could be sliding down pretty soon.

 

Celeste: She hasn't done anything for me to warrant a town read. She's also had a few defensive posts that I haven't been fond of.

 

Kaylee: Can't remember any kind of thread presence even though I know she's been here posting, so it's partially result of POE. ISO candidate.

 

Turin: Don't like his reads list, it's bad, it's doing nothing for me, it's superficial. His comments on Lenlo's meta are actually null for me now, but I got a bad feeling when he was responding to me about it and my read on Lenlo, like he's trying to turn it around on me. I don't remember the last time that town reading someone was something to be given - points for.

looks like third from the bottom to me.

[Nolder]

 

Sup Xander.

 

Who's the towniest person in the game as of right now?

 

Me obv!!!!

 

But after me Id have to say Pizza tbqh.

 

and scummiest Lenny.

 

Your thoughts on this and same question for both town and scum for you.

 

I missed this earlier, this isn't referring to Lenlo is it?

[alannalynn]

Pizza: Scum hunting and overly good townish tone.

Cass: Reminds me of the two games I have played with her where we were both town. I haven't seen her as mafia but she is analyzing the thread and scum. 

Wish-tree: Gut vibe and the fact that is she is spewing how well she reads me. The only reservation I have is buddying. 

Laine: I want to see her post thoughts and I have a tiny voice in my head saying she is probably town.

Zander: He baffles me and honestly I don't know how to read him. His thought process of Wish/I read though is townish.

Csarmi: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Turin: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Leno: Absolutely null.

Shad: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Kaylee: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Nolder: Something about his question reminded me of Rustlemania. It just doesn't seem like he is town. Although he is fairly absent which makes him null.

Pralaya: Needs to post more but he also reminds me of his play in TUS.

Pennehhh I need MOAR. I mean, thank you for the list. But the problem for me is that you have a whole pile of nulls and half of them have contributed half of nothing, and a few of them have the highest number of posts in the game. I want to see you through to day 2 to see what you have after a flip.

 

#929 ++ Pizza

 

 

 

 

Where I am currently...

 

1. Shad: I didn't like the meta incident. Further I really didn't like the way he tried to frame the argument that it was a stupid discussion. It felt like an attempt to nullify any resistance without having to actually back up his earlier statement.

2. Kaylee: I am concerned about two times that she basically asked a question but then gave an easy "okay" to the answer. If this is holding cards close then it might be acceptable but it felt like looking like trying to solve without actually trying to solve.

3. Zander: He seems to be asking the right questions and he did repeat some of the questions I was asking when he was catching up and posting. The shouting has come down some which makes him easier to physically read if not as obvious in his alignment. 

4. Turin: by Role PM 

5. Pizza: Unsure.. I didn't like the entire note taking thing that felt like something non-game related to post to be "helpful". Maybe I would care about it if I took notes. Active and doing things but nothing that makes him obvious town. also curious to see what his thoughts were about he changing read on me. I may be biased there however.

6. Csarmi: not much content. I read his OP as null. Value does not equal alignment. Need more from him.

7. Laine: Disagree with her point about me. Also didn't like the comment to Lenlo regarding her having him as top town read. Feels like pocket attempt. 

8. Leno: Nothing so far that is pinging to me. I know that he has improved his game all around but I will give credit for his willingness to question someone that was town reading him. 

9. Wish-tree: Trying to remember what she has said. Nothing coming to me ATM. 

10. Pralaya: Starting the pool for when he makes his first post. I got 04/01/2016 2230 GMT. That is January 4th for americans.

11. Celeste: Despite her attempt to claim otherwise some posts reading as AtE. Also never liked people coming in and saying they are playing at a higher level. This may be clouding my view a bit however. 

12. Nolder: not much so far from Nolder aside from his question and results. Seems like an easy thing to post in either alignment.

13. Cass (with Cory mentoring): Good questions. Solid so far. 

 

WTL: Shad, Laine, Celeste, Kaylee. 

 

Out for a few hours. see ya all later.

 

 

 

Compare and contrast with this leans list.

 

This list is far more colorful than Celeste's and generically looks like a villager's list on the surface.

 

He's got more colors but about the same investment in his reads as Celeste's.

 

His red suspect, I feel is plant-a-vote, give a reason, try to justify that reason all day long. So long as Shad continues along his current path, Turin can feel justified in keeping his vote there. But it also absolves him from having to rustle anyone else. Focusing on the one suspect and never moving, but he's not really attempting to persuade anyone or heavily invest his time or passion into pushing Shad means I don't really believe Turin thinks Shad is mafia.

 

His orange suspect, is half about himself. I do that a lot when I'm scum and a villager is attacking me. The other part is so generic and also a limited investment on his part.

 

His yellow, Celeste, is easy pickings.

 

His other yellow, Kaylee, may also be easy pickings, or could be his wolf buddy, for distancing.

 

His lean on Askthepizzaguy- focusing on a throwaway nothing post about a website where I generate numbers. I don't believe after the body of work I've created for this game that I should either be null, or this should be half of what you say about me.

 

I call bullshit.

 

Cass was consensus already and he did nothing to persuade people that Cass was townie. So that's just bandwagoning onto the consensus.

 

Lenlo and Zander are generally townish and a bunch of people feel that way, and he's not invested in that either.

 

This leans list stinks pretty badly, as does Turin's behavior all round.

 

That's why Turin is prioritized over Celeste, for having the same category of leans list generally, but Turin's is specifically much worse.

Thank you Pizza, this is what I want to see, especially when some of your points reflect the same thoughts that I had when I read his reads list.

 

 

I'll try, though I have a lot of null...

The order I copied from Alanna's list so as to not miss anyone.

 

Alanna - town lean. I'm looking the work she's putting in, explaining herself and giving reads and vibes all say likely town.

 

Lenlo - Town. Stronger lean than Alanna. Darker green. He's tone, style and overall liked what he's had to say.

 

Zander - About the same as Leno. Mind melded a few times. He's gone after what he feels is a sunny without ignoring the rest of the game. He seems genuine and I just find myself nodding a lot of at least able to see where's he's coming from and it feels townie.

 

Pizza - Blue read. You've made me think. You're approach this game and esp recently had me thinking you have to be town. If I'm wrong then bravo to you. The way you've put in work, and so early, I just don't see coming from scum.

 

Shad - Light green. He's one I'm not as familiar with. Why town? His willingness to go against the grain with his reads, how he's handled Celeste for example. He is putting in effort and fighting for what he feels is right. Also genuine and a "I don't care if you don't agree, but vote someone I feel is town and I'll fight it" attitude.

 

Cass - light green. She's fooled me before though. Here she comes across as more ready going and free thought which I associate with her town game.

 

Wish - Unsure ATM so null I suppose. I have mixed feelings.

 

Csarmi- Null I have a real hard time reading him.

 

Pral- Note enough from him Null

 

Nolder- Reserving since he's going outside what I'm used to. Null for now just to place him. Time will tell with this slot.

 

Celeste - I'm going with Pizza here and saying more time will tell. So she's between grey and yellow.

 

Kaylee- me town and I know I need to step it up. I'm trying to do better.

 

Turin - Yellow. I'd like him to answer my question. I like what piazza's had to say against him.

 

 

What I'm getting from this is..

Kaylee

Pizza

Lenlo

Zander

Alanna

Shad

Cass

Wish

Csarmi

Pral

Nolder

Celeste

Turin

 

List feels pretty easy, I particularly want you to take stronger stances on Wish and Celeste since they seem to be discussed a lot today. Why is Wish null to you when you have Zander so high? Is Celeste there only because of Pizza? What do you mean by Nolder "going outside of what I'm used to"? What question are you waiting on from Turin and has he answered it already? 

 

You answered my question.

It wasn't real time interaction but hey you've been busy.

That's not on me. :P

 

Also eventually you'll catch up to a post which explains how the points work and why you're tied.

It's not necessary to interact. I see you making good posts and you get points.

I saw a post where you explained the points but you didn't SHOW how you got there. I need to see your full thought process not just who got what points and how you add points together. What posts made you give negative points? Why? What posts made you give positive points? Why?

 

Kaylee imo, Csarmi hasn't done a whole lot.

 

Those would be my two.

:dry: :dry:

[alannalynn]

 

 

@Kaylee, IMO Pizza, Alanna, Shad and Wish are all making noises like they are willing to vote Celeste over Wish. Let's see once the votes fall off of me.

 

[unvote]

[v] Wish [/v]

 

Shad or Pizza aren't going anywhere today. I am willing to follow along with the one on my list that I think is viable for today.

....Huh? Blatantly false. I have NEVER indicated an intention to vote Wish today.

 

Exactly. But you would be willing to vote Celeste, Yes?

No.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think I know what you're driving at.

 

Turin, you're saying Celeste and Laine are wolves together?