[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Kaylee]

 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about being in your head. Scary place

 

lolololololololol

 

well you did mentor me so you should at least have a little inkling as to what goes on in there!!!!!!

Yeah and it's scary! Lol

[Shad_]

 

 

 

Oops. Forgot to go back and get Lenlo-Shad posts.

 

Shad Obv Town, 11 more to go.

Ok so Lenlo's lock town ldo.

Freaky double timing and calling each other Town. Insta-paranoia says they could have planned it if they are wolves (let's have each other lock-Town! Wolves never do that!), attempt at rational/occam's brain says it is actually unlikely for W-W to interact so much and then blatantly call each other Town so early in the game.

 

I'm trying to go with rational where I can, or you're all going to be scum in my brain for the rest of the game.

 

 

 

haha

 

I almost want to legit town read you for saying that when I did.

Lets take this game by storm, me and you against the world.

 

This was the one that stood out most and made me go back and re-read.

Basically, Shad sounded more carefree, Lenlo more controlled. I can't read Lenlo's bold but thoughts were if not sarcastic or good friends/frequently play together this 'against the world' (when Town is the majority) seems wolfy. Not pushing anything further, just an observation.

 

 

You're going to be an interesting one to figure out.

 

You are demonstrating analysis but seem to be considering events on a somewhat superficial level(1). Do you think that Lenlo and I consider each other lock town?(2) Do you think that scum would be instinctively inclined to describe themselves a a minority in the village?(3)

 

1. What's superficial? I'll tie things together if I feel I get a good handle on someone, if that's what you're looking for. (The posts your up to there are just a scatter approach: read, see what stands out, question looking for elaboration on motives, decide how the response feels/how much I believe, talk about what's in my head).

 

2. I don't know, I couldn't tell - that's why I asked Lenlo's opinion/meta of you and why I'm interested in your response to the questions on your opinion/meta on him.

 

3. Is that a convoluted way of asking 'Would scum call each other scum?' ? Possibly in RVS, but probably not both of them that early in seriousness, IMO. What do you get out of this question?

 

Red, I get a better perspective on where your head is at. You made two initial statements that read shallow to me, no offense, and that is an important window into understanding you. The "lock town" posts were obviously jokes regardless of our alignments--in my case, rather explicitly a joke. Moreover, I have to date seen a scum player 'slip' in the manner you described of Lenlo precisely once. (It was Zander, who I swear to god said in-game to his team mate "we're going to wreck this town!") But it's highly uncommon, and something I would struggle to take as a serious scum tell even were it explicit, whereas your suspicion requires a bit of creative interpretation.

 

The deeper-thinking scum probably isn't going to make these two observations, because they know they're shallow and will be called into question.  And you aren't a shallow player, so I think you're probably town.

 

(for Cass and Pizza's reading pleasure)

 

 

 

I see three likely paths of follow-through to my questioning. Not a catch-all and a bit oversimplified, but right more often than not:

 

The superficial scum, who thinks these are reasonable enough arguments. -- Insists it wasn't such a bad idea but hesitantly drops it and moves on, or maintains it as the basis for a read with little follow-through and blows off any doubts.  Might eventually get annoyed by questioning and lash out, but not immediately.

 

The superficial town, who thinks these are reasonable enough arguments. -- Takes offense to being treated as if they are stupid, picks a fight and possibly levels naive questions at me that are easily refuted, generally thinks I'm a dick regardless of my alignment and will let me know it. Might still back off the arguments, but isn't too happy about it.

 

The thoughtful town, who was just trying to get the ball rolling early in the game. -- Has already followed through with questions, acknowledges flaws in the initial arguments but doesn't really care because they've still accomplished the goal of bringing me to the table for further analysis, can point to their progression, responds to my inquiry with probing questions of their own.

 

 

[Kaylee]

 

 

If it helps you guys I'm not really an early game player so all I have are my gut reads and observations until a flip happens.

 

 

Ok ive no problem with that Penny.

 

But your game is missing one half of the 2 most important parts of Towning:

 

1- TOWN TELL SO PEOPLE KNOW YOURE TOWN- Not seeing it at all from you.

2- LUNCH THE WOLVES- Also not seeing that from you as well though I take the early game mention into consideration as I know others feel the same way. D1 not always my best reads day as well but without the first its hard to accept not doing the second imo.

Well than excuse you for not seeing that I don't have the average tells of a townie because y'all are too focused on average tells. I'm still looking and not certain with reads except for the one's on Cass and Wish. The whole fact that y'all are pushing into a defensive corner doesn't help because it blocks the scum hunting. If you guys are so adamant that I'm not a townie than congrats you have your first mislynch. I'm done defending this little issue with the timing of my unvote.

Bold: Hold on, first off nobody is voting you so not likely a mislynch if you're town. We've mentioned it felt off. For me it isn't just the timing it's her defense of you as well which I said could be just strange.

 

No reason to jump to saying you'll be mislynched. If you're town help us see it.

[Zander?]

 

 

If it helps you guys I'm not really an early game player so all I have are my gut reads and observations until a flip happens.

 

 

Ok ive no problem with that Penny.

 

But your game is missing one half of the 2 most important parts of Towning:

 

1- TOWN TELL SO PEOPLE KNOW YOURE TOWN- Not seeing it at all from you.

2- LUNCH THE WOLVES- Also not seeing that from you as well though I take the early game mention into consideration as I know others feel the same way.  D1 not always my best reads day as well but without the first its hard to accept not doing the second imo.

Well than excuse you for not seeing that I don't have the average tells of a townie because y'all are too focused on average tells. I'm still looking and not certain with reads except for the one's on Cass and Wish. The whole fact that y'all are pushing into a defensive corner doesn't help because it blocks the scum hunting. If you guys are so adamant that I'm not a townie than congrats you have your first mislynch. I'm done defending this little issue with the timing of my unvote.

 

 

 

WOW pump the brakes my dear....little bit of an overreaction imo.

[Zander?]

 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about being in your head. Scary place

 

lolololololololol

 

well you did mentor me so you should at least have a little inkling as to what goes on in there!!!!!!

Yeah and it's scary! Lol

 

 

 

Theres nothing to fear but fear itself!!!!!

 

lolololololol

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

Oops. Forgot to go back and get Lenlo-Shad posts.

 

Shad Obv Town, 11 more to go.

Ok so Lenlo's lock town ldo.

Freaky double timing and calling each other Town. Insta-paranoia says they could have planned it if they are wolves (let's have each other lock-Town! Wolves never do that!), attempt at rational/occam's brain says it is actually unlikely for W-W to interact so much and then blatantly call each other Town so early in the game.

 

I'm trying to go with rational where I can, or you're all going to be scum in my brain for the rest of the game.

 

 

 

haha

 

I almost want to legit town read you for saying that when I did.

Lets take this game by storm, me and you against the world.

 

This was the one that stood out most and made me go back and re-read.

Basically, Shad sounded more carefree, Lenlo more controlled. I can't read Lenlo's bold but thoughts were if not sarcastic or good friends/frequently play together this 'against the world' (when Town is the majority) seems wolfy. Not pushing anything further, just an observation.

 

 

You're going to be an interesting one to figure out.

 

You are demonstrating analysis but seem to be considering events on a somewhat superficial level(1). Do you think that Lenlo and I consider each other lock town?(2) Do you think that scum would be instinctively inclined to describe themselves a a minority in the village?(3)

 

1. What's superficial? I'll tie things together if I feel I get a good handle on someone, if that's what you're looking for. (The posts your up to there are just a scatter approach: read, see what stands out, question looking for elaboration on motives, decide how the response feels/how much I believe, talk about what's in my head).

 

2. I don't know, I couldn't tell - that's why I asked Lenlo's opinion/meta of you and why I'm interested in your response to the questions on your opinion/meta on him.

 

3. Is that a convoluted way of asking 'Would scum call each other scum?' ? Possibly in RVS, but probably not both of them that early in seriousness, IMO. What do you get out of this question?

 

Red, I get a better perspective on where your head is at. You made two initial statements that read shallow to me, no offense, and that is an important window into understanding you. The "lock town" posts were obviously jokes regardless of our alignments--in my case, rather explicitly a joke. Moreover, I have to date seen a scum player 'slip' in the manner you described of Lenlo precisely once. (It was Zander, who I swear to god said in-game to his team mate "we're going to wreck this town!") But it's highly uncommon, and something I would struggle to take as a serious scum tell even were it explicit, whereas your suspicion requires a bit of creative interpretation.

 

The deeper-thinking scum probably isn't going to make these two observations, because they know they're shallow and will be called into question.  And you aren't a shallow player, so I think you're probably town.

 

(for Cass and Pizza's reading pleasure)

 

 

 

I see three likely paths of follow-through to my questioning. Not a catch-all and a bit oversimplified, but right more often than not:

 

The superficial scum, who thinks these are reasonable enough arguments. -- Insists it wasn't such a bad idea but hesitantly drops it and moves on, or maintains it as the basis for a read with little follow-through and blows off any doubts.  Might eventually get annoyed by questioning and lash out, but not immediately.

 

The superficial town, who thinks these are reasonable enough arguments. -- Takes offense to being treated as if they are stupid, picks a fight and possibly levels naive questions at me that are easily refuted, generally thinks I'm a dick regardless of my alignment and will let me know it. Might still back off the arguments, but isn't too happy about it.

 

The thoughtful town, who was just trying to get the ball rolling early in the game. -- Has already followed through with questions, acknowledges flaws in the initial arguments but doesn't really care because they've still accomplished the goal of bringing me to the table for further analysis, can point to their progression, responds to my inquiry with probing questions of their own.

 

 

 

 

And I still made it to the final four!!!!!!!

 

lolololololololol

[Celeste]

 

 

 

If it helps you guys I'm not really an early game player so all I have are my gut reads and observations until a flip happens.

 

Ok ive no problem with that Penny.

 

But your game is missing one half of the 2 most important parts of Towning:

 

1- TOWN TELL SO PEOPLE KNOW YOURE TOWN- Not seeing it at all from you.

2- LUNCH THE WOLVES- Also not seeing that from you as well though I take the early game mention into consideration as I know others feel the same way. D1 not always my best reads day as well but without the first its hard to accept not doing the second imo.

Well than excuse you for not seeing that I don't have the average tells of a townie because y'all are too focused on average tells. I'm still looking and not certain with reads except for the one's on Cass and Wish. The whole fact that y'all are pushing into a defensive corner doesn't help because it blocks the scum hunting. If you guys are so adamant that I'm not a townie than congrats you have your first mislynch. I'm done defending this little issue with the timing of my unvote.

Bold: Hold on, first off nobody is voting you so not likely a mislynch if you're town. We've mentioned it felt off. For me it isn't just the timing it's her defense of you as well which I said could be just strange.

 

No reason to jump to saying you'll be mislynched. If you're town help us see it.

 

That looks like it would be the turn out if you have seen the events that have taken place.

[Kaylee]

I have seen them, been a part of it. Nobody has voted you. You can't be mislynched if you're not voted. You have plenty of time to show us if you're town.

[Shad_]

fwiw there were so many layers to what I was thinking there that I didn't actually say, simplified bottom line is that Cass has made a number of observations in this game that make me uncomfortable but pursues an investigative and analytic follow-through on them that, I think, rarely stems from the sort of scum mind that would drop the initial observations in the first place.

[Shad_]

Who has played with Cass before and who can help me understand her? She seems like another brand of Zander and I cant handle that.

  I can see the connection here.  Fairly null on you observing it.

[Shad_]

So im liking how Pizza has played this game, it feels like previous games, and while I would normally find that scummy im trying to re calibrate for how I read him.

 

Do you think he felt different in World's End than in NBC?  (I won't hold you accountable to remembering him in SW.)

[Shad_]

*Matrix, not SW <_<

[Shad_]

 

 

 

Shad, please attempt to describe your take on Lenlo's meta.

First ya Id like to hear your thoughts on Len's Meta.....and mine as well!!!!!!

 

Summarize everything I think I know about how Lenlo thinks and behaves as town vs as scum?

 

That's a long exercise, and one I find borderline counterproductive at this stage, and I don't really think of people as a list of dos and don'ts in the first place. The whole value of a meta read is that it allows you to catch people being dishonest in subtle ways that are not objectively alignment indicative.

 

I'll call what I see when I see it.

 

 

 

@Shad re the bold. 

I think it's more important that you explain why you see what you see when asked. 

I don't need an entire explanation of Lenlo's meta (though I'd like it!).

 

What I want to know is what you saw/were thinking when you said Lenlo was Town. This response feels like you're avoiding explanation of your read.

 

Bookmarking this to address in a bit. Turin around?

[Lenlo]

 

So im liking how Pizza has played this game, it feels like previous games, and while I would normally find that scummy im trying to re calibrate for how I read him.

 

Do you think he felt different in World's End than in NBC?  (I won't hold you accountable to remembering him in SW.)

 

I do, but not in a radical way you know?

 

Like say Pizzas town game ranges from 100 to 0 and his scum game is -1 to -100, cause he likes to change it up each game apparently. NBC would have been say, 100, while Worlds End was like 0 or something, this game would be like a 60 or 75. The numbers mean absolutely nothing, what im trying to get at is they felt very different yet he was town in both. This game though he feels in between the two. Still within the bounds of what I can see a town Pizza doing and what I can expect from a town Pizza.

 

This is all built off me never seeing Scum Pizza. Once I see scum Pizza I can re calibrate the Pizza-meter, but until then this is what ive got. You hear that Pizza?! YOU GET ONE GAME TO FOOL ME! DONT SCREW IT UP!

[Shad_]

Please don't keep requoting a post to only make a small comment. It's better to snip it down to contain only what you're talking about...or just reference it. Otherwise it's hard to read.

Did your use of quote chains in Frozen serve an agenda?

[Lenlo]

 

So im liking how Pizza has played this game, it feels like previous games, and while I would normally find that scummy im trying to re calibrate for how I read him.

 

Do you think he felt different in World's End than in NBC?  (I won't hold you accountable to remembering him in SW.)

 

That answer enough for you?

[Shad_]

 

 

So im liking how Pizza has played this game, it feels like previous games, and while I would normally find that scummy im trying to re calibrate for how I read him.

 

Do you think he felt different in World's End than in NBC?  (I won't hold you accountable to remembering him in SW.)

 

I do, but not in a radical way you know?

 

Like say Pizzas town game ranges from 100 to 0 and his scum game is -1 to -100, cause he likes to change it up each game apparently. NBC would have been say, 100, while Worlds End was like 0 or something, this game would be like a 60 or 75. The numbers mean absolutely nothing, what im trying to get at is they felt very different yet he was town in both. This game though he feels in between the two. Still within the bounds of what I can see a town Pizza doing and what I can expect from a town Pizza.

 

This is all built off me never seeing Scum Pizza. Once I see scum Pizza I can re calibrate the Pizza-meter, but until then this is what ive got. You hear that Pizza?! YOU GET ONE GAME TO FOOL ME! DONT SCREW IT UP!

 

I don't really have a grasp on what "in between" means, I guess. It's hard to say for certain what I would have made of him in World's End as town, but I think I would have lunched him more boisterously than I did as scum.  To me he feels fairly similar here to NBC and Matrix.  World's End was quite different.

 

I can't really hold you accountable to fully articulate the World's End overlap here, because I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable trying to summarize any of Pizza's games, but does anything in particular stand out to you?

[Kaylee]

 

Please don't keep requoting a post to only make a small comment. It's better to snip it down to contain only what you're talking about...or just reference it. Otherwise it's hard to read.

Did your use of quote chains in Frozen serve an agenda?

 

What? I don't get question. I don't like when posts are requoted to the point you can't tell what they say anymore. That's all I meant. I don't get what the question has to do with this game or the quote you used.

[Shad_]

 

 

Please don't keep requoting a post to only make a small comment. It's better to snip it down to contain only what you're talking about...or just reference it. Otherwise it's hard to read.

Did your use of quote chains in Frozen serve an agenda?

 

What? I don't get question. I don't like when posts are requoted to the point you can't tell what they say anymore. That's all I meant. I don't get what the question has to do with this game or the quote you used.

 

 

Don't worry about it.  I expected this response from you as either alignment, but a "yes" would have made things interesting.

[Lenlo]

 

 

 

So im liking how Pizza has played this game, it feels like previous games, and while I would normally find that scummy im trying to re calibrate for how I read him.

 

Do you think he felt different in World's End than in NBC?  (I won't hold you accountable to remembering him in SW.)

 

I do, but not in a radical way you know?

 

Like say Pizzas town game ranges from 100 to 0 and his scum game is -1 to -100, cause he likes to change it up each game apparently. NBC would have been say, 100, while Worlds End was like 0 or something, this game would be like a 60 or 75. The numbers mean absolutely nothing, what im trying to get at is they felt very different yet he was town in both. This game though he feels in between the two. Still within the bounds of what I can see a town Pizza doing and what I can expect from a town Pizza.

 

This is all built off me never seeing Scum Pizza. Once I see scum Pizza I can re calibrate the Pizza-meter, but until then this is what ive got. You hear that Pizza?! YOU GET ONE GAME TO FOOL ME! DONT SCREW IT UP!

 

I don't really have a grasp on what "in between" means, I guess. It's hard to say for certain what I would have made of him in World's End as town, but I think I would have lunched him more boisterously than I did as scum.  To me he feels fairly similar here to NBC and Matrix.  World's End was quite different.

 

I can't really hold you accountable to fully articulate the World's End overlap here, because I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable trying to summarize any of Pizza's games, but does anything in particular stand out to you?

 

If you remember I wanted him lynched in Worlds End to, which is why I placed it at 0 on the scale. If NBC was 100, as I said I think this game feels like a 75. Its much closer to NBC than it was to Worlds End but I would still call it town.

 

What do you mean Worlds End overlap? I thought he was terribly scummy that game but he flipped town, so all I can do is re-calibrate and call that the low end of his town game. He gets one scum game of flat out tricking me, since I have no idea what hes like as scum and I refuse to take his posts about how he plays as scum at face value.

[Shad_]

What I meant by overlap is that if you're identifying his behavior here as somewhere 'between' World's End and his other games, then there must be things he's done in this game that specifically remind you of World's End.

 

But that's nit-picking, and I'm starting to feel as though it is unproductive nit-picking, so I'm content to drop it.

[Lenlo]

What I meant by overlap is that if you're identifying his behavior here as somewhere 'between' World's End and his other games, then there must be things he's done in this game that specifically remind you of World's End.

 

But that's nit-picking, and I'm starting to feel as though it is unproductive nit-picking, so I'm content to drop it.

Ah. I didnt mean it that way, I knew it wasnt the best analogy. I guess to fit with what your saying the "overlap" is that I think he is town this game and he was town that game. Thats it.

[Lenlo]

Everytime I reply, I cant get over seeing this avatar on the right of the forum. I love seeing it every time.

[Kaylee]

Shad: I only won as scum in Frozen because my scum team was acting scummy and it made easy for me to then "scum hunt". Typically as scum I'm more reserved and cautious about what I say and how I'm being perceived.

[Shad_]

I hope you can read Csarmi cause I tend to not understand what he talks about and find him inherently scummy like in Star Wars.

Salami feels towny to me even when he's peeked scum.  I have zero confidence in my ability to read him atp in my experience with him (2 games?), but he did one of those universal SSoHW things that has always lead to a correct read so far.

 

I won't be shocked if he's scum, but I'll be a bit startled.