[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Shad_]

@Pral, what would scum!Lenlo have gained by claiming vig?

[Nolder]

ugh

 

Today was completely wasted.

I'm sorry guys. Honestly I don't know how active I'm going to be this weekend.

I've got some errands to run tomorrow and then everyone wants to watch football in the afternoon and if I'm on the computer I get yelled at for being anti social so I probably wont be around at all until night time.

 

Sunday shouldn't be too bad I hope.

[Nolder]

 

Gun to head I'm going to say Pral is town.

I wish there was more content to work with but sometimes gotta make tough call.

 

Ok who's next?

Shad how about you. Ok let's go.

Ok.

 

Talk to me.  What are your concerns? 

 

Let's start here and hopefully I'll have more for you tomorrow night.

 

#15/16 - Weird to mention all the players you do and don't have meta on right at the start. Like you're setting up excuses for mislynches on townies maybe. (-1)

 

#617 - Gives reads list. Weird that he has Csarmi at the top. Says he explained it but may have missed the explanation. (0)

 

#799 - Basing his read on Celeste off how Wish acts. This doesn't bother me later in the game when connections are being made but it seems very early to me to draw these kinds of conclusions. (-0.5)

[alannalynn]

 

But more likely I found 2 and then I also found 2 others. 50% is a bad score.

 

I need a dead scum today or I won't be that happy.

If you want to do it, let's start looking at the wagon. What do you think happened? Csarmi was a completely town led lynch which zander decide to join due to no other choice? If not, who in that csarmi wagon is scum?

I think most likely to be scum on that wagon is Cass due to her being on it so early. I don't believe she, as a teammate, would have expected it to take off and by the time it did, there was no way to back off.

 

On the other hand, there's no reason Zander couldn't be the only wolf on that wagon, imo.

 

#2974 -- Laine on a town roll, love her thought process in this post.  She should never be lynched.

(hifive)

[alannalynn]

Alanna
Lenlo
Pizza
Wish
Shad

Kaylee

Celeste
Nolder
Cass
Pral

 

This is just about where I am right now. Basically that top portion should never be lynched. Gonna just lay out some thoughts, since I'm struggling right now, so random things and all

 

Alanna- that's me, I'm town, hello. I think only Pralaya is questioning me at this point, along with Cass, Celeste, Kaylee, and Wish. I want to hear his thoughts on that in the form of a thorough reads list, since he did skim like 30 pages. Nonetheless, I'm town.

 

Lenlo- Not going to doubt the cop claim today. That's going to solve itself unless the mafia does have a RB and just decides to keep us in suspicion of Lenlo for a few days #YOLO. Anywaysss I started out reading Lenlo really town, so if he is cop, then go me. But on a second look after flips, he didn't look so hot. Not a fan of his choice of peek last night but that's that. He's clear.

 

Pizza- Should never be lynched. He never leads both of his teammates to their doom in such quick succession. But then again, Zander is a loose cannon as mafia lol. But there's no way Pizza is scum. Ever. Do you even trust me yet, Pizza?

 

Wish- Not lynching her this game. She has put a LOT of work in and I do not see that coming from scum Wish. Besides, unless Wish Celeste are both mafia, there is no way in hell Wish defends Celeste like that when she was such an easy lynch d1. And no way that she links herself to Celeste because that would be a nice way to kill two birds with one stone. Besides, I've seen some serious townie posts which lead me to believe Wish cannot be wolf this game.

 

Shad- I'm not sure I know why Shad isn't scum? It just seems right that he's town and nobody is questioning it. I feel comfortable with this read. If he's deepwolfing, then damn man, you good. But I highly doubt that. Shad showed doubt early on with Zander and he's been a very strong core townie this game despite some doubts I had early on. I'm going to blame them on the drugs.

 

--------------

 

Kaylee- Unlikely she's mafia. The case that Pizza had on her and following defense by Csarmi spews her town unless mafia made horrible choices. I've been seeing some improvement from her and I likes it.

 

Celeste- Reading back over her ISO d1, I really liked her posts and her responses irt Zander/Csarmi. I'm happy naming her town for now. I would like to see some solve coming from her though so she can be further cleared.

 

Nolder- Never trust Nolder. But his actions at end of day look good on him. I honestly don't know why some people have him so high.

 

Cass- Ughhhhhh wellll I don't even know what to do here. Because I like some of her actions, I like her cases, I like how she is in thread. But I feelll like if we have a deep wolf, it's definitely her. She was very early on that wagon and stuck with it. Something just feels off. Maybe I'm crazy. She's just gonna be in my POE. Funsies

 

Pralaya- Pral almost purely here by POE. I read his ISO and I got nothing. I can see the pushes at Cass as the other wolf on the Csarmi wagon, I can see his thought processes. But then I see his WTL and I'm like wuuuuttttt? I mean, I know it's a lot of pages and a lot of stuff to get though, but I guess I don't really know what he's doing here right now. tl;dr, like his input but don't like his conclusions. Like, I can't fudging read him?

[alannalynn]

Blehhhh don't let Alanna do early morning rambles

[alannalynn]

[v] Pralaya [/v]

[Kaylee]

 

 

The thing is I don't see the same tone against Cass as he had with wish. So, I don't know how Shad is trying to say that Zander's posts spew Cass as town.

I agree with your comment on Wish, and while we all know Zander likes to bus, he does it with the goal of winning games, and he has the experience to know what that means. Consider:

 

Zander's first bus game, relied exclusively on gut, provided no case, managed to get his partner lynched when she was town telling like crazy and had a lot of us pocketed. It bought him a pass for a while. Towns kept dying. Wait a second, how did Zander really know Talya was scum when all of Shad/Verbal/AJ/BFG were oblivious to it at the time? TMI, gets lynched, town wins.

 

Zander's second bus game, relies entirely on a case because 'gut' was TMI last time, crafts a really solid one because it's a lot easier to point out scummy things when you know someone is scum lolololol. Holds off the actual lynch for two days by playing up the tunnel vision, because tunnel vision can make towns fail to take notice of the actual quality of the case. Lenlo finally gets lynched, people review Zander's case and realize it was spot on all along, lock him in as town, scum wins.

 

Diablo: Zander cases a town. Has a few good reasons and some pretty bad ones. The push backfires (and he gets peeked), gets lynched instead of his target.

 

This game: Zander cases someone. Has a few good reasons a lot of pretty bad ones. The push backfires (and he gets peeked,) gets lynched instead of his target.

 

Yeah, Wish probably town. Would be a pretty clever and yet stupidly high-risk self-sacrifice otherwise, as either 1) town follows his lead and lynches her, then lynches him after she flips scum anyway because it was super TMI and Zander has a history, or 2) he gets outed for the case D2 or D3, still can't ensure Wish doesn't get vigged by someone who believes him beforehand, still can't ensure she isn't lynched at 3-player lylo because town is telling too hard or has confirmed PRs still living.

 

But Pral, couldn't the difference in tone be a simple consequence of Zander not (in what, the first 20 pages?) making Cass his committed lynch push? I can understand if you don't agree with my theory that Zander spewed Cass town, but what does his case on Wish have to do with it?

Really like the way this is laid out. Also good question.

[Kaylee]

Kaylee, who is "toy"?

It was supposed to say you. Auto correct. Changes love to lice or lick also. Am trying to catch it.

[Kaylee]

 

As scum I would've had a solid scum read on a townie and pushed as hard as I could. I likely would've gone along with Zander and voted Wish. As scum I don't like to come across as too wishy washy.

 

Actually did: wishy washy. Swayed a lot by others. Only found townies I could trust. Bad D1.

To be honest, it was your extremely wishy-wash "I'm completely stumped at this point" attitude towards the end of Frozen that had me concerned about you D1.

 

But I recognize D1 and end-game are very different environments.

They are. It's why I agreed with the case pizza made. It makes sense.

[Kaylee]

It's wrong which is why I'm working on proving myself today.

[Kaylee]

 

 

Confused about whether that was your argument or Cass's. Quotes all blend together on Tapatalk. I'll just read it tomorrow.

tl;dr: Pralaya and I disagree on the implications of Zander's early conversation with Cass. He brought Zander's case on you into the picture to support his argument. I don't understand how it supports his argument and await further replies from him.

That is part of why my vote is still there. Not making clear sense to me.

[Kaylee]

ugh

 

Today was completely wasted.

I'm sorry guys. Honestly I don't know how active I'm going to be this weekend.

I've got some errands to run tomorrow and then everyone wants to watch football in the afternoon and if I'm on the computer I get yelled at for being anti social so I probably wont be around at all until night time.

 

Sunday shouldn't be too bad I hope.

No worries. Hope you get to be on Sunday worth fresh thoughts.

[Kaylee]

Alanna

Lenlo

Pizza

Wish

Shad

 

Kaylee

Celeste

Nolder

Cass

Pral

 

This is just about where I am right now. Basically that top portion should never be lynched. Gonna just lay out some thoughts, since I'm struggling right now, so random things and all

 

Alanna- that's me, I'm town, hello. I think only Pralaya is questioning me at this point, along with Cass, Celeste, Kaylee, and Wish. I want to hear his thoughts on that in the form of a thorough reads list, since he did skim like 30 pages. Nonetheless, I'm town.

 

Lenlo- Not going to doubt the cop claim today. That's going to solve itself unless the mafia does have a RB and just decides to keep us in suspicion of Lenlo for a few days #YOLO. Anywaysss I started out reading Lenlo really town, so if he is cop, then go me. But on a second look after flips, he didn't look so hot. Not a fan of his choice of peek last night but that's that. He's clear.

 

Pizza- Should never be lynched. He never leads both of his teammates to their doom in such quick succession. But then again, Zander is a loose cannon as mafia lol. But there's no way Pizza is scum. Ever. Do you even trust me yet, Pizza?

 

Wish- Not lynching her this game. She has put a LOT of work in and I do not see that coming from scum Wish. Besides, unless Wish Celeste are both mafia, there is no way in hell Wish defends Celeste like that when she was such an easy lynch d1. And no way that she links herself to Celeste because that would be a nice way to kill two birds with one stone. Besides, I've seen some serious townie posts which lead me to believe Wish cannot be wolf this game.

 

Shad- I'm not sure I know why Shad isn't scum? It just seems right that he's town and nobody is questioning it. I feel comfortable with this read. If he's deepwolfing, then damn man, you good. But I highly doubt that. Shad showed doubt early on with Zander and he's been a very strong core townie this game despite some doubts I had early on. I'm going to blame them on the drugs.

 

--------------

 

Kaylee- Unlikely she's mafia. The case that Pizza had on her and following defense by Csarmi spews her town unless mafia made horrible choices. I've been seeing some improvement from her and I likes it.

 

Celeste- Reading back over her ISO d1, I really liked her posts and her responses irt Zander/Csarmi. I'm happy naming her town for now. I would like to see some solve coming from her though so she can be further cleared.

 

Nolder- Never trust Nolder. But his actions at end of day look good on him. I honestly don't know why some people have him so high.

 

Cass- Ughhhhhh wellll I don't even know what to do here. Because I like some of her actions, I like her cases, I like how she is in thread. But I feelll like if we have a deep wolf, it's definitely her. She was very early on that wagon and stuck with it. Something just feels off. Maybe I'm crazy. She's just gonna be in my POE. Funsies

 

Pralaya- Pral almost purely here by POE. I read his ISO and I got nothing. I can see the pushes at Cass as the other wolf on the Csarmi wagon, I can see his thought processes. But then I see his WTL and I'm like wuuuuttttt? I mean, I know it's a lot of pages and a lot of stuff to get though, but I guess I don't really know what he's doing here right now. tl;dr, like his input but don't like his conclusions. Like, I can't fudging read him?

This is why Alanna isn't a wolf this game.

 

My list:

 

Piazza

Alanna

Wish

Shad

Leno

Cass

Nolder

Celeste

Pral

 

(Color coding is not easy on mobile bit the order is from town to scum)

 

Pizza and Alanna: Piazza is here for his casing both wolves. Alanna for her points and thought process. They've also both put in a lot of work. Never lynching here. Blue reads.

 

Wish: Her placement on the Csarmi lynch looks good. Her interactions with Zander I think still leaves her looking good. As Alanna said she's put in a lot of work and I've understood where she's coming from. Genuine feel, good questions and seems to be coming from a townie POV. Dark green

 

Shad: Put in a lot of work. What I've liked abhor him is his going against the grain. It's more his approach on players. I've agreed with what he's said and he's caused me to really think things through/ see them differently from what I was. I get good vibes and think it's unlikely he's anything but town. Dark green

 

Leno: I too had him town at first. Flips and the case against him gave me pause and had me suspecting him. However it's likely true that he is what he claimed. Light green cuz of the doubt but I'm nor lynching here.

 

Cass: I agree she's a good candidate for deep wolf. I have liked her play this game. I have her as town for now, but tinfoil and such has me doubting. I'm just not quite ready to put her outside of town just yet. Color wise she'd be half light green half orange.

 

Nolder: I've had him town for awhile. POE has me starting to doubt. I don't agree with him about his result pizza read but otherwise have thought he's sounded good. He's another one that can fool me as I tend to read him wrong. I think Cass has come out sounding/looking better over the two. Orange

 

Celeste: Part POE part her posting. There are some things I didn't like from D1. This phase hasn't made me change my mind. Her response to the things I laid out against her were Ok. Not so good that I've re-thought my position on her, but not bad enough that I'm switching my vote. We waited on her slot to give her time. Still waiting. Half orange half red. (Phone tried changing orange to pregnant...wtf?!)

 

Pral: like Alanna I've noticed the catch up and trying. I'd also like a reads list with thoughts. I can understand maybe skimming since he's done it as both alignments before. His conclusions feel like a stretch though. I'm just not seeing it. Part POE but what he's said this far has me thinking my vote is vary warranted. Red

[Shad_]

Pralaya- Pral almost purely here by POE. I read his ISO and I got nothing. I can see the pushes at Cass as the other wolf on the Csarmi wagon, I can see his thought processes. But then I see his WTL and I'm like wuuuuttttt? I mean, I know it's a lot of pages and a lot of stuff to get though, but I guess I don't really know what he's doing here right now. tl;dr, like his input but don't like his conclusions. Like, I can't fudging read him?

Aside from including you (and not including himself), his wtl is your wtl minus Nolder, no?

[Shad_]

 

 

 

Gun to head I'm going to say Pral is town.

I wish there was more content to work with but sometimes gotta make tough call.

 

Ok who's next?

Shad how about you. Ok let's go.

Ok.

 

Talk to me.  What are your concerns?

 

 

Let's start here and hopefully I'll have more for you tomorrow night.

 

#15/16 - Weird to mention all the players you do and don't have meta on right at the start. Like you're setting up excuses for mislynches on townies maybe. (-1)

 

#617 - Gives reads list. Weird that he has Csarmi at the top. Says he explained it but may have missed the explanation. (0)

 

#799 - Basing his read on Celeste off how Wish acts. This doesn't bother me later in the game when connections are being made but it seems very early to me to draw these kinds of conclusions. (-0.5)

 

These are your old notes iirc.  Have you advanced on any of these thoughts so far?

 

Blue -- I named you, Lenlo, Laine, Zander as the people I think I can read well.  What has my approach to these four people done to strengthen or lessen your concern?

 

Green -- It was definitely a bad reason, as things panned out, but I explained it again later.  I don't know if I explicitly stated "this was my original reason" or if I just reiterated the reason, but did anything about my treatment of csarmi towards the end of D1 ping you?

 

Red -- I am still basing a lot of my Celeste read on the same principle.  What are your thoughts on Wish/Celeste interaction?

 

 

 

[Shad_]

Nolder, this has been a huge game--maybe higher content than WE even--and I can't realistically assume that only scum will fail to keep up, but things have slowed down a lot now and I need to see progression out of you.  If there is someone you're suspicious of, try to research them and improve your read.  At a stage where players are wrecking scum (Pizza), getting spewed pretty heavily town by scum (Cass), demonstrating way more motivation to solve than scum realistically probably would at this stage (Laine), claiming power roles (Lenlo), you will inevitably sink back into the POE if you don't step up a bit.

[Kaylee]

And this went silent during my brief return and leave. Anyways Lenlo if your cop why didn't you just investigate me? Instead of always voting me every chance you get.

This post bugs me. More now that I've reread it. It why even say this? We've discussed the GF angle already by this point. I get it's partly that he's been after her, but something about it just really bugs me. Maybe it's the "then I'd be clear" assumption to it added to the GF angle. Maybe it's the fact that earlier she said mechanics help her figure things out. If that's true then wouldn't your consider the possibility of a GF after the flips?

[Kaylee]

Celeste you too should be stepping it up.

[Kaylee]

Nolder, this has been a huge game--maybe higher content than WE even--and I can't realistically assume that only scum will fail to keep up, but things have slowed down a lot now and I need to see progression out of you. If there is someone you're suspicious of, try to research them and improve your read. At a stage where players are wrecking scum (Pizza), getting spewed pretty heavily town by scum (Cass), demonstrating way more motivation to solve than scum realistically probably would at this stage (Laine), claiming power roles (Lenlo), you will inevitably sink back into the POE if you don't step up a bit.

I know Len is cleared for his claim, but he should still be trying. Ok he doesn't have the drive to reread...fine. Len, that doesn't mean stop trying! Get in here and comment on things! What are your current thoughts?

[Songstress]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

Kaylee (1): Celeste
Celeste (1): Lenlo
Pral (2): Kaylee, Laine

Not voting (6): Shad, Wish, Pral, Nolder, Cass, Pizza

----------

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Day 2 deadline is Monday, January 11 @ 9 AM MST (11 AM EST)
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160111T09&p0=197&msg=End+of+Day+Two&font=cursive&csz=1

[Songstress]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Songstress]

I have been advised that my posting of dancing penguins was unfair since I have forbidden non-players from posting in the thread.

 

On Cory's behalf, the only proper response is:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(And since the mod is this bored, I'd suggest people start posting.  *clears throat*)

[Kaylee]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OMG they're so cute!

[wish-tree]

Reading.

 

Where I'm at:

 

Popular opinion is- do not lynch- me, Pizza, Laine, Shad, Lenlo

 

Will start to answer about what I think about Celeste.

 

I actually haven't heard much from her on Skype in a few days. Unsure if it's work or other things keeping her.

 

Her lack of activity is null, but you're right, it isn't looking good for her atm. I'm not going to try to lock clear her for other people, and I will defend her, but if she doesn't step it up, it'll be hard for me to do so.

 

I can't just keep tone/meta reading her if she doesn't put in the actual work. Even I may doubt. (That's when you know you should put in more work, Lassie.)