World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Pralaya]

Vote Count:

 

Tina (1): Cory

Pizza (2): Lenlo, Zander

Sooh (1): Nolder

 

Not Voting: dice, shad, pizza, Tina, sooh, Nikon, bfg, besie

 

With 12 players, 7 needed to lynch

[Guest]

 

 

 

Time for me to do a list I suppose

 

Besie- She does ask a lot of questions, and she did present some good cases, however I don't think the Besie I know is showing up in a lot of her posts. To add to that I don't think she has followed up much on her suspicions. This just rubs me all wrong.

I get where you're coming from. I've not posted an updated list for the past 30 pages. I've been wanting to do a reread first, but we have family over so I can only do that tonight.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean with the Besie you know. I enjoyed wolf more than villagery (no offence). Maybe I just don't sound as into it? I'll get my mind focused and be in it again tonight when the family leaves.

It has more to do with that your posts sound awkward. I'll be looking forward to your reread and reactions.

*smiles* Deal.

[Nolder]

 

Sounds good.

Let's try to get inside each other's head.

Maybe with some hypotheticals?

 

Hypothetically if you had a roleblock who would you block tonight as of right now?

 

I would block Dice. He's not really a suspect of mine but that's part of the problem, I don't have a good read on him. Other than arguing he's been kind of low key this game and he also has very good instincts with night powers. I also don't see many others calling him town just quite yet which gives me pause because Dice is one of those players who usually gets townread early or it doesn't happen at all.

I think I would block Besie. She's someone I don't trust at this point in the game, and I think she's cunning enough if mafia to create serious problems for town. 

 

Where do you stand on Pizza? If you have said I apologize. I don't recall off the top of my head.

 

I had him as null on my reads list on page 28.

 

I don't think I'm ready to take him out of null but I did like that big note list he posted.

Shows a lot of engagement with the game.

[Nolder]

Engagement with the game? lol...

[Nolder]

Pral you have me voting and not voting.

[Guest]

Yeah. Pral just replace the not voting Nol with me.

[Sooh]

*snip*

I had him as null on my reads list on page 28.

 

I don't think I'm ready to take him out of null but I did like that big note list he posted.

Shows a lot of engagement with the game.

 

What do you make of the whole Pizza/Lenlo argument? Still null after that?

[Nolder]

 

*snip*

I had him as null on my reads list on page 28.

 

I don't think I'm ready to take him out of null but I did like that big note list he posted.

Shows a lot of engagement with the game.

 

What do you make of the whole Pizza/Lenlo argument? Still null after that?

 

I couldn't concentrate on it. I skimmed 99% of it.

[Sooh]

 

 

*snip*

I had him as null on my reads list on page 28.

 

I don't think I'm ready to take him out of null but I did like that big note list he posted.

Shows a lot of engagement with the game.

 

What do you make of the whole Pizza/Lenlo argument? Still null after that?

 

I couldn't concentrate on it. I skimmed 99% of it.

 

This kind of attitude is sort of provoking to me. 

 

None of what neither Pizza nor Lenlo has said the last 20 pages has colored your read of them one bit?

[Zander?]

 

Pub Crawl Champions

 

BFG - probably a lot of reasons why I have her here even in terms of just plain singular posts that echo with what I expect of her villager game (her looseness is #135, her willingness to combat Zander and then even me ever-so-slightly in #324 and #331, her literally gorgeous read on dice in #328 that is exactly how she would process dice's content up to that point and a large amount of other postings I haven't even marked down because I don't really feel the need to). There's just a I can tell element with her; she's open-handed, free flowing, is processing information and clearly has the gears turning in her head that I generally see. Sometimes you can just see a flower blooming and know it's a good thing. She's interested, involved and putting herself out there far more than I think she reflexively does as wolf. As long as she continues to play at this level I would defend her pretty much to the death. Only be wary if her interest level wanes as the game progressess, but all I can see is steps in the right direction.

 

Zander - Zander certainly has no trouble posting as a wolf but the content always feels different to me on either side. His wolf game is riddled with more self-protection, aggression toward anything he thinks "looks bad" (frequently pushing teammates though I think he is outgrowing that) and a general tendency to sort of try and box himself in with other people who are being read villager. There's quite a few "mental note" posts he's made this game that I think come from him as a villager the vast majority of the time; he said something about the way I treat him when I am a wolf that was almost identical to something he said as a wolf in a turbo, which in one of my logic thought hoops really makes me lean v hard because I think it's something he truly believes but might shy away from saying again if he were a wolf here. Might only make sense to me, but that's a fractional thing; his breadth of content is very good, he's actively looking in all directions and is committed. #25, #64, #115, #160 were my early marks for his general mindset, emotional commitment and level of observation that makes me comfortable with him. Another person I've really stopped taking notes on, at least for the moment.

 

Can probably pound a couple back and still be chill

 

Lenlo - The easiest way to say this is that Lenlo's take on Pizza this game is indescribably similar to his read on Eldrick in the Ragnarok game; Lenlo isn't necessarily the best at A) explaining how he feels B) explaining how the thread supports his read and C) convincing others of his reads, but that's not going to stop him from getting intro scraps and swinging the axe around. Lenlo has done nothing to shy away from the spotlight and while its had mixed result he continues to be there and honestly there's nothing I've seen that I really associate with his scum game. #126, #127, #130, #153 (possible derpclear*), #162 - which I have marked as "oh Lenlo!", which is amusing to me because I don't know what the content is, but I have a plus for it and notepad is always right - all things I have as positive regardless of what others think, considering Lenlo is not someone you can really read linearly. Majorly, he's here and doing things, and that's always a good sign for him, because while Lenlo can post as a wolf there's less of a will to move things forward AFAICT.

 

Most of my debate early d1 was whether or not I felt I "knew better" the the crowd of players calling for his head d1 and whether or not I should intervene or maybe just see what they had. After sitting back some I'm not comfortable at all with him as a lynch option today but I can understand at least some of where the heat came from, I just don't think it's from things that are really indicative of his alignment.

 

Sooh - This is probably the least founded on here and has more to do with her early tone than anything. She makes an early read on dice and interjects Zander irt to Pizza early and has makes broad strokes at communications attempts (#120) yet seems to be consciously struggling (#225) in a way that feels to me more like a villager having difficultly processing information than a wolf failing to find a way to fabricate reads.

Really do want more from her before EoD, as her content has sort of died off and I think this read might be premature, but I still think she's > rand to be a villager.

 

 

 

OFC IM A CHAMPION!!!!  YOU HAVE A COMPETITION THAT CONSISTS OF TOWNING AND DRINKING!!!!!

 

lolololololol

[Zander?]

Thoughts on Pizza

 

 

This is just an observation that may count for nothing.

 

Initially, it seemed that others (Zander and jokingly, Lenlo) thought his word count was an indication of his alignment. Apparently, he usually types more when he is town. After posts pointing that out, his word count increased considerably with chapters of books being written after page 30. Is that coincidence? Or did he purposefully increase his word count?

 

 

 

I really liked Lenlo's argument/thoughts on Pizza on page 36. It makes sense to me; I agree with it.

 

I further agree with Shad's opinion on Nikon on page 36 as well. I see where you were coming from, Z, but the idea of him simply being overwhelmed makes more sense to me than him shying away because of being scum. I'm not going to appreciate it if he turns out to be scum.

 

I feel like pizza and cory are on opposite ends of lenlo. Pizza is convinced he's scum, whilst cory said he would defend lenlo (page 16). I don't know anymore, Len. Whose opinions should I trust, in addition to my initial scum-Len thoughts?

 

×××

 

And then it went on. And on. And on. Lenlo vs Pizza. In which time, Lenlo seemed the calm of the two. 

 

 

I'm still catching up.  At page 40 now.

 

 

Ok my dear if you HAD to pick who is the most likely to be a wolf of Cory, Pizza or Lenlo....who would you pick and why?

[Guest]

 

Thoughts on Pizza

 

 

This is just an observation that may count for nothing.

Initially, it seemed that others (Zander and jokingly, Lenlo) thought his word count was an indication of his alignment. Apparently, he usually types more when he is town. After posts pointing that out, his word count increased considerably with chapters of books being written after page 30. Is that coincidence? Or did he purposefully increase his word count?

 

 

I really liked Lenlo's argument/thoughts on Pizza on page 36. It makes sense to me; I agree with it.

I further agree with Shad's opinion on Nikon on page 36 as well. I see where you were coming from, Z, but the idea of him simply being overwhelmed makes more sense to me than him shying away because of being scum. I'm not going to appreciate it if he turns out to be scum.

I feel like pizza and cory are on opposite ends of lenlo. Pizza is convinced he's scum, whilst cory said he would defend lenlo (page 16). I don't know anymore, Len. Whose opinions should I trust, in addition to my initial scum-Len thoughts?

×××

And then it went on. And on. And on. Lenlo vs Pizza. In which time, Lenlo seemed the calm of the two. 

I'm still catching up.  At page 40 now.

 

 

 

Ok my dear if you HAD to pick who is the most likely to be a wolf of Cory, Pizza or Lenlo....who would you pick and why?

Pizza. I'm rereading (at page 11), so I'll give you more definite why after that. I'm okay with Lenlo now. He's at about null for me. I'm seeing of I can find something. And I'm not entirely sure why I cleared Cory so soon, honestly.

[Zander?]

Good morning! I´m here and I will put a little more time into the game this morning. I think I want to do an iso on a few people. I have read the whole thread but that doesn´t mean that I remember much. I started to take notes but that fell after page 15. lol 

 

Here are my initial thoughts:

 

First - who is voting who? It feels like there are few people voting and those who did unvoted. 

 

I couldn´t read everything in the back and forth between Lenlo and Pizza but I think I got the major parts (because they were stated again and again and again...) First to Lenlo - I did not agree with Pizza. I was the second vote on your train, before Pizza. Second - my thoughts about it now:

 

* my reason for voting Lenlo was that it felt like he was trying to accuse Dice without actually doing it. Like he didn´t dare to vote him but still wanted to make him look scummy. Someone asked me (Shad? Zander?) why that would make him mafia. I have seen that many time, where mafia don´t want to take responsibility for leading someones lynch or being afraid of definite statements. 

 

I think this was Pizza´s first reason for voting Lenlo too and in that we agree(d). But I didn´t like the way he went after Lenlo and said that everything Lenlo said was scummy. He was obviously tunnelling Lenlo. I´m not sure what I feel about his unvote because I don´t think I really understand the reason for it. Need to read it again.

 

I liked Lenlo´s post #812 and now I need to figure out if I want to unvote him or not. I´ll see as I re-read some stuff. 

 

 

Even though I have a problem with Zander´s amount of posting I think he looks really good. 

 

Cory - don´t know but haven´t seen anything scummy. I kind of liked some of his posts toward Pizza but they haven´t really been about this game but more a meta-talk about how to approach mafia. I see that he posted a new list while I´m writing this so I will check it out.

 

BFG - she is asking a lot of questions, which she does as both alignments. She posts a lot, which is a good sign since I know that she has been afraid of posting too much as mafia earlier. (This is from at least half a year ago so I don´t know how it is now.) I still don´t think I have seen any results of the answers she has been given. Yesterday she just ended with "I´ll wait and see what Tina says when she comes back". (Which seems to be built on Cory´s suspicioun of me.) Well, now I´m back so I hope that I could get some clear statements about everyone. 

 

Nikon - isn´t here.

 

Shad - he posted a lot but he got mixed up with Zander-Lenlo-Pizza in my head so I don´t really remember his thoughts.

 

Nolder - Is laying low. Answers when questioned. Nothing so far.

 

Besie - I see that many of you think she is town but I haven´t payed attention to her so far (sorry Besie). Will need to iso.

 

Sooh - didn´t get good vibes from her earlier. I think it was about Lenlo. She had a bad feeling about Lenlo, then wanted to clear him, then liked what I and other said about him and then... I don´t know what she has written after that. Need to iso as well.

 

Who did I forget? 

 

 

i dont know if im remembering correctly but im pretty sure you as town tend to find me scummy even when I town (ie British Monarchs)  what about me specifically makes you feel good about me?

[Sooh]

*snip*

i dont know if im remembering correctly but im pretty sure you as town tend to find me scummy even when I town (ie British Monarchs)  what about me specifically makes you feel good about me?

 

Lol you have that as a tell on her as well??

[Zander?]

 

 

Thoughts on Pizza

 

 

This is just an observation that may count for nothing.

Initially, it seemed that others (Zander and jokingly, Lenlo) thought his word count was an indication of his alignment. Apparently, he usually types more when he is town. After posts pointing that out, his word count increased considerably with chapters of books being written after page 30. Is that coincidence? Or did he purposefully increase his word count?

 

 

I really liked Lenlo's argument/thoughts on Pizza on page 36. It makes sense to me; I agree with it.

I further agree with Shad's opinion on Nikon on page 36 as well. I see where you were coming from, Z, but the idea of him simply being overwhelmed makes more sense to me than him shying away because of being scum. I'm not going to appreciate it if he turns out to be scum.

I feel like pizza and cory are on opposite ends of lenlo. Pizza is convinced he's scum, whilst cory said he would defend lenlo (page 16). I don't know anymore, Len. Whose opinions should I trust, in addition to my initial scum-Len thoughts?

×××

And then it went on. And on. And on. Lenlo vs Pizza. In which time, Lenlo seemed the calm of the two. 

I'm still catching up.  At page 40 now.

 

 

Ok my dear if you HAD to pick who is the most likely to be a wolf of Cory, Pizza or Lenlo....who would you pick and why?

Pizza. I'm rereading (at page 11), so I'll give you more definite why after that. I'm okay with Lenlo now. He's at about null for me. I'm seeing of I can find something. And I'm not entirely sure why I cleared Cory so soon, honestly.

 

 

ok ty Besie.  Let me know what you come up after your reread!!!!

[Zander?]

 

*snip*

i dont know if im remembering correctly but im pretty sure you as town tend to find me scummy even when I town (ie British Monarchs)  what about me specifically makes you feel good about me?

 

Lol you have that as a tell on her as well??

 

 

 

Ive also tended to read Tina wrong or scummy as well.  So ill openly admit Im not the best at reading her so Im going with something I do remember and see where it leads.

[Zander?]

I get what you're saying wrt Nikon and I'm not a fan of the 'i have thoughts, but I'm not sharing them', BUT he's just not been around (and given my participation in the last few games I'm not going to lambast somebody for not posting). Games at 40odd pages, but has been going for less than 2 days, both of which are significant family days /shrug

 

I'm willing to see what he comes back with, I had to work hard to not bus him in OUAT (and may have done in the end) and although that may have been bias/TMI I don't think he'll be hard to read once playing (I say that with no memory of his town game whatsoever and no real memory of that game other than I thought he was scummy)

 

 

Why dont you think he will be hard to read?  In the game that you had to try not to bus him, can you tell us some of his scum tells or tendencies?

[Shad_]

I dont hate this but it seems your scummier leans are stemming more from PoE then really casing...is that a fair assessment Shad?

That's pretty fair.

[Zander?]

Caught up.

 

Cory, I'd really appreciate it if you would actually read me and not just go by a "handshake", as you stated.

 

i like this type of post from Besie....its the kind of the "not afraid to say stuff to really good players" post that I think most new players will likely avoid as scum imo.

[Zander?]

 

I mean, it is what it is. I don't have any confident read on you, and to say I do would require me making something up. I'm not the kind of player who is just going to make something up in place of admitting he lacks confidence with a particular slot.

 

Previous reading of you in general seems to suggest you care more about being a wolf than being a villager, which emphasizes you probably would make conscious efforts to develop your wolf game, and with zero understand of your villager game (which as far as I know doesn't even exist yet) I have literally no point of comparison.

 

Barring mechanical reasons you'll probably be in my PoE all game. Consider it a rite of passage.

*starts bonfire*

 

I am honoured.

 

Seeing as how I was wolf in my previous game, and how much I loved playing that role (and then ofc the fact that you could observe my entire thought process that game) - your current deduction/thought process makes complete sense to me.

 

 

 

I need my two top town reads to unite under the LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Banner with me and wreck the wolves lives with me!!!!!!

[Zander?]

I mean, it's really as simple as "if Pizza is a wolf he realized he wasn't gaining any actual traction on Lenlo anymore and decided to flip it around and make it look like some long-term strategy in which he had control" in terms of the potential wolfiness of that post. Funny he brings up Yates since I've always thought Yates and Pizza are similar style players (with Pizza being a tad more active, involved and communicative) and that "180 read change because I can" is sort of something right out of the Yates wolf playbook. Control is important to both of them, specifically looking like they are in control even when they aren't.

 

Of course, there's certainly reasons he could be a villager doing that or earnestly making a read, so unfortunately not so easy. Pizza's sort of a nightmare to read. lol.

 

Yeah Ive been thinking the same thing.  The biggest difference to me is his approach/style this game.  It goes against most of what I seen in Nightmare from him. So I dont regret where my vote currently is.

 

I've started to notice that :/

 

Especially throughout all that and his sarcastic comments / AtE every few pages.

 

Keep expressing your thoughts like this.  It will help people get a better read on you.  But running up against a Top Dog like  Pizza and calling things out is a good look for you imo.

[Zander?]

Besie:

 

She seems to be going with the flow* a lot and a lot of her posts are not game related. She asks questions but don´t do anything with the answers. I have not played with her before so I can´t judge her from previous games so I don´t know why Zander is saying she is town. 

 

* many have had the same oppinion so it´s hard to say that this is purely negative. I have expressed some of the same thoughts.

 

Result: null - scummy

 

 

BFG:

 

She is posting a lot, asking a lot of good questions. Still, I don´t know what she thinks about people. She posted a list where she was uncertain of most people, I don´t know why she posted that list at all. 

 

Result: depends on what she will contribute with next.

 

 

 

Nolder:

 

A big ?.  He is saying that he don´t want to say much during D1 so it´s hard to say anything about him. 

 

Result: null 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So of these people I guess I find Sooh  most scummy. BFG is in an category of her own. I will take a new look at Lenlo (and others) later.

 

Right now [unvote] .

 

Wether or not I decide to change my mind or not about Lenlo, my vote isn´t doing any good right now. 

 

Those that I won´t take another look at are Dice and Cory. Dice because I have not seen anything yet to change my town read on him and Cory because I know I won´t get any wiser by that. 

 

 

This is a lot of MEH .  WIll need to ISO Tina but this part of her list I really dont like.  Like straight up there has been scummier play from people who have been more or less generally Town Read then any of these slots imo.

[Zander?]

 

Nolder - Is laying low. Answers when questioned. Nothing so far.

Lol that's pretty much how I feel about you.

Glad to see you getting more involved.

 

 

 

Yes, I´m trying to be more active today. Will post more later after taking care of my home. 

 

 

Id like to see more activity from both of you tbh.

[Zander?]

Time for me to do a list I suppose

 

Cory - I like his play so far. It seems to be consistent with his good villager play. He's taking more of a back seat as opposed to telling people what to think, and he is open to changing his mind on people. I think that's more consistent with him being town than scum.

 

BFG - I'm still waiting for the big cases, but I feel good with her so far. She digs into posts and people's comments and seems to be solving to me. 

 

Lenlo - I do like his approach. He seems open and willing to engage. 

 

Zander - A bit on the backburner, but with the level of engagement from others it makes sense for him to want to see that played out and pointing out oddities in posts as he sees them. 

 

Shad_ - So far seems consistent with towny Shad. I know you have tricked me in the past, so I'll keep an eye out for that

 

Tina - Utterly on the fence about her. I have seen her do this sort of behavior both as wolf and town in the past, but her suspecting me makes me think more town than wolf. At least that has been a pattern in the past. 

 

Dice - I need to see more that isn't just mechanical thoughts about the game. 

 

Nikon - POE only. I don't know Nikon as a player, and I can see that Christmas may make it difficult for people to spend time on here and in the thread. Add to this how much I know he usually posts around the board and so far I'm very much in the nulls about him.

 

Nolder - Has not much thread presence so far in my opinion. He did give some reads, and followed up by giving me a "pressure" vote. 

AskThePizzaGuy - It takes time for me to read him, and when I finally settle on an opinion I'm paranoid as heck about being wrong. I'm supposed to be able to read this one right, right? I think the tunneling one player approach is something we sort of expect from him by now, and his reversal of opinion on people is also not a new thing (see Nolder in the last game they played here). What I don't see is the humor that I expected. The tone is odd in most of these posts, especially the pressure posts. I feel like I'm still on the fence, but the fence is at this point leaning towards the scummy side. 

 

Besie- She does ask a lot of questions, and she did present some good cases, however I don't think the Besie I know is showing up in a lot of her posts. To add to that I don't think she has followed up much on her suspicions. This just rubs me all wrong. 

 

 

OK you seen my message on what I intend to do if people try to lynch her today right???

 

But more importantly then that reminder is the bold, i honestly dont remember if you were in Diablo or followed it but how is that really even a sensible comment when she only has 1 game of Mafia experience.  Also then using your logic, I see the Besie I KNOW and have been reading her Town so what do you make of that?

 

Also pertaining to your read of Nolder,  You dont like the fact he hasnt had much thread presence thus far....well the same could be said about others in this game as well.  So Im a little skeptical of that line of reasoning from you and that youre using it to call him on it.  Also almost kinda seems like part of the reason youre sussing him is the fact he's sussing you which I also don't like.

 

 

Could you please clarify and elaborate on these things for me Sooh?

[Zander?]

Sounds good.

Let's try to get inside each other's head.

Maybe with some hypotheticals?

 

Hypothetically if you had a roleblock who would you block tonight as of right now?

 

I would block Dice. He's not really a suspect of mine but that's part of the problem, I don't have a good read on him. Other than arguing he's been kind of low key this game and he also has very good instincts with night powers. I also don't see many others calling him town just quite yet which gives me pause because Dice is one of those players who usually gets townread early or it doesn't happen at all.

 

Very strange question to me....Like why choose to go with roleblocker as opposed to say Cop or Vig.  Not sure if it really means anything but something that struck me as odd.

 

Agree with 2nd Bold.  Like to hear more from Dice and others concerning him,