Diablo the mafia game!

[Yates]

Did you read the rest of my post?

I did but I still somehow left with the impression that you didn't think Zander was the type of player to consider SHC. My counter is since he has been SHC in the past - and more importantly that it was accurate - that he is absolutely savy enough to remember something game changing like that and think about it in future games. Assuming otherwise is kind of insulting to Zander, to be honest.

[Yates]

i note Bender was a leading train but they didnt get piled on near end game  Lenlo came from behind iirc

You do recall correctly. And Bender [self-preservation not withstanding] and Clov were instrumental in ensuring that Lenlo was the lynch.

[Clovdyx]

Yates, you and Shad actually did have a discussion I care about, so let me ask you something.  Who do you think is MORE likely to overlook a SHC: town or mafia?

[Yates]

TBF Yates dropped the "would I do this as scum" line in Matrix like a dozen times.

Clov is well aware of this. He's seen it from me A LOT. Including once when I was a BP Cop who got mislynched...

[Shad_]

 

 

@ BFG

 

 

(also sorry Besie. I'm trying to catch my tablets autocorrect of your name, but I'm missing a fair few )

 

No problem.

 

How much talking are you doing with Besie?

 

He's CLEARLY not talking to me enough. I've starting irritating him with everything now. I don't like that he just discards my thoughts, irrespective of how new I am.

 

 

Yates, give me your spin on this post.

 

"Gosh guys. I'm just a noobie noob and so Zander never listens to me really but I like totally knew Lenlo was Town and just fell really REALLY bad that I wasn't here to talk some sense into my silly DRUNK partner when he voted Lenlo against my best wishes. Whoopsie! Town being Town, right? LAWWWWWLL!!!"

 

To her credit, she is doing her part to try to sell it.

 

 

 

No offense but give me a more serious answer, regarding this post specifically.  Like, humor that not everyone is 99% convinced they're scum yet and try to look at this from an unbiased point of view.  If it's a town statement, what is Besie talking about?  If it's a scum statement, does it have intent or is it honest?  Scum make lots of honest posts.

[Yates]

Yates, you and Shad actually did have a discussion I care about, so let me ask you something.  Who do you think is MORE likely to overlook a SHC: town or mafia?

This is silly. You are silly.

[Yates]

No offense but give me a more serious answer, regarding this post specifically.  Like, humor that not everyone is 99% convinced they're scum yet and try to look at this from an unbiased point of view.  If it's a town statement, what is Besie talking about?  If it's a scum statement, does it have intent or is it honest?  Scum make lots of honest posts.

You're right. I'm doing a lot of confbias here. Let me see if I can read your mind...

 

If it is a scum statement? I think I showed you the intent. To try to win favor by both playing the noob card and simultaneously absolving herself [and thus Zander] of responsibility for the mislynch.

 

And I will tell you this; if Clov is their scum partner? They have ABSOLUTELY set this up. And he started the ball rolling with a really early post where he floated the idea that Bender is Town because Bessie looks "so natural and carefree" as if it's impossible to be coming from a first time scum. So the seeds of the whole noob thing have already been planted early and often by Clov.

 

If it is a Town statement? I don't see the purpose. It's like she is chastising Zander for voting Len without her permission? I'm guess that's about as much as I can say from that perspective. It's really more of a throw away comment to vent. Why? What are you seeing?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Yates, you and Shad actually did have a discussion I care about, so let me ask you something.  Who do you think is MORE likely to overlook a SHC: town or mafia?

This is silly. You are silly.

 

 

No, it's really not.  You're painting is a slip.  It's not.  Because I would argue that scum is a hell of a lot more likely to care who peeked who and remember to include it.  If Zander's mafia, he just killed AJ.  If AJ's peek was the driving force behind that, it's probably going to be something he cared about.

 

 

 

Scum need to scumtell more imo. -_-

You need to pay attention more imo. Like... did you open the spoiler in 835? Or notice the slip I mentioned in 957???

And JFC do I hate your Tress vote right now.

 

I don't know if 957 was a slip really. I don't honestly expect Zander to pay attention to shc stuff because, well, Zander, and I have no reason to believe the thought would have crossed Besie's mind in her first game. Is there anything about it that would make this oversight more likely to come from scum!Zander?
 
But then in #825 Zander acts like he noticed the SHC scenario but didn't buy it.  That's not quite as easy for me to swallow. I mean, really, he was so unconvinced by it that he still had me, Thane, Clov, and Tab all above BFG?

 

 

Shad's points here?  I have NO problem with these.  Zander doesn't play a typical mechanical game like you or I do.  You can try to argue that if you want, but you're wrong, and anybody that's played with Zander for five minutes should know that.  So if he glanced over BFG being cleared right off the bat, I'm not shocked.

 

The bottom is a legitimate point against him.  I think he would put more stock into it once it was pointed out.  The fact he came back with "I need to look at it more" is considerably more alarming than not mentioning it at first.

 

 

 

 
As for #835, it told me that they had zero interest in maintaining seer cover. I'm still not convinced it was originally intended as seer cover in the first place.

Interesting note from the WoT I never posted: Clov originally didn't take Besie's read on me as seer cover either, but said it was obvious seer cover later on. Let me dig up that section from the text file.

 

#201 -- Doesn't seem to interpret Besie's claim that I'm town as seer cover, says I'm pretty null so far. ~~I didn't immediately read it as seer cover either. I think this is possibly a town sign for Clov. I don't know. I want to think scum hunting for the seer would make note of the post and wait to see if Bender formally commits to having peeked my slot later. But that's a pretty loose thread and irrelevant if w/w.

#282 -- Lenlo had asked for Clov's take on Yates. Clov starts by saying "Both of the posts from Shad and Blesie were quite obvious in their purpose".

~~Were they Clov?

 

 

Sooh/Shad is town.

I don't have any reason to dispute this, but I'm not there yet. Sooh's been absent so far, and Shad's done nohting alignment indicative for me.

 

~~I don't believe you initially interpreted Besie's statement irt my slot as a peek, but I don't know that this indicates anything. If it seemed obvious to you later you might have still made the statement in #282 and forgotten your initial reaction. Hard to say.

 

 

 

Not sure what #835 had to do with maintaining seer cover, but yes, Zander did make a post where he completely blew cover this morning.  Tab did as well, except that I'm not sure she had ever been maintaining it.  I tried to ignore it and not draw attention, but uh...I don't think I succeeded.

 

 

And yes, they both WERE obvious attempts at seer cover.  I don't think I need to explain why I responded the way I did to it.

[dicetosser1]

Yates, you and Shad actually did have a discussion I care about, so let me ask you something.  Who do you think is MORE likely to overlook a SHC: town or mafia?

 

WTF   didnt you just comod a game where a Town member missed the Innocent Child declaration?? On the FIRST PAGE?

[Shad_]

Ok. 
 

He's CLEARLY not talking to me enough. I've starting irritating him with everything now. I don't like that he just discards my thoughts, irrespective of how new I am.

Now Besie's turn.  Explain what was going through your head when you made this post.  This is important.

[Shad_]

I'm glad we have an extended deadline.

[Clovdyx]

 

Yates, you and Shad actually did have a discussion I care about, so let me ask you something.  Who do you think is MORE likely to overlook a SHC: town or mafia?

 

WTF   didnt you just comod a game where a Town member missed the Innocent Child declaration?? On the FIRST PAGE?

 

 

That's precisely my point.  Yates is saying that Zander "slipped" by not writing BFG off as confirmed town because she was AJ's peek.  I'm saying I would actually think TOWN is more likely to overlook something like that than MAFIA.

 

Mafia submits the kill - any competent team is going to submit it knowing exactly who the peek was and what the implications are.  Could mafia!Zander (or mafia!anyone, for that matter) forget it?  Yes.  Could he post and deliberately exclude it?  YES!

 

But saying he somehow outed himself because of it is pretty stupid.

[dicetosser1]

i need to reread that   i read it but its got my eyes crossing so im definetly missing something.

 

 

let me digest

[BFG]

Good morning :)

 

I have guests staying this weekend, bit I'll try to keep current. I should have some time late evening to do a reread.

[Yates]

But moving away from football and back into the context of the game, if you're trying to win me over by telling me to disregard my own read because you're a good player, don't waste your time.  I know you're a good player, and I have a lot of respect for you.  But I think you've been around me well enough to know I'm narcissistic enough to believe I'm pretty damn good myself.

Oh I know. And I was counting on you not understanding the true intent of my question.

 

You see.... you made a statement on Day 1 that had me scratching my head. You said this:

If deadline was in five minutes, I would lynch him just to save Bender, but numbers alone would make me expect him to flip town.

I'm not QUITE as narcissistic as you, but I do think I play a respectable game and I guess I just *assumed* you would think I was more valuable to a Town than someone like Zander. And that's not a knock against Zander but FFS I just spent a couple of posts trying to prove that Zander isn't a dumb dumb and would absolutely try to look for SHC. I mean - this *IS* afterall the same guy who called me scummy for "role fishing" totally obvious seer cover peeks. Does this NOT prove he is aware of what's going on in this game? And I feel like this is something people would just ASSUME I already know - much as you and Shad and Bender have all done.

 

So then I started thinking, "gee, maybe Clov doesn't think I'm as good at this game as I *think* he thinks I am?"

 

So I posed the QB question to you. You chose me as a future HOFer. AND - more importantly - you said you'd build a team around Brees [me] before Stafford [Zander].

Being a Purdue kid, I can't in good faith take anything away from Breesus so sure, I'll take him over the Dwags.

So I hope all can see why THIS QUOTE that I thought seemd both out of character and disingenuous struck me as odd...

If deadline was in five minutes, I would lynch him [Yates] just to save Bender, but numbers alone would make me expect him to flip town.

Of course, you already know that Bender is your scum buddy and that I'll flip Town. Don't you?

[Yates]

Sorry guys. I can only find 2/3 scum today. I'll have to rely on my Town core to find the 3rd and final scum.

[Clovdyx]

That post had nothing to do with your ability.  It had to do with my feelings on their alignment, and a lack of feelings on yours.  I specifically stated the only reason I would expect you to come up town is numbers.....I'm not going to condescend you by explaining this game has more townies than mafia (but I want to!).  Meanwhile, I actually had things that happened to make me think they're mafia.  It wasn't just RNG.

[BFG]

Yates, I still need to digest a lot of stuff, but I will try to respond soon

 

What's your opinion on Tabor?

[Clovdyx]

That post had nothing to do with your ability.  It had to do with my feelings on their alignment, and a lack of feelings on yours.  I specifically stated the only reason I would expect you to come up town is numbers.....I'm not going to condescend you by explaining this game has more townies than mafia (but I want to!).  Meanwhile, I actually had things that happened to make me think they're mafia.  It wasn't just RNG.

 

You know what, Clov?  Yates is right - you SHOULD be letting people you're actually reading as town die over people that you're null on, just because they're a decent player sometimes.  That way, when you do get a read wrong, you still can take solace in the fact you still lynched scum.  Good job, you!

[Yates]

So here's the post I've been dreading....

 

[deep breath]

 

As I looked back at the Lenlo mislynch and considered the conviction and tenacity with which I pursued a Bender lynch I was left with one burning question; what went wrong? I felt like I raised good points about Zander in particular. I felt like - in a vacuum - my case was WAY more solid than anything else presented. And as I look back on the success I have on other sites I wonder why I can't duplicate that success here. Why can't I get people to follow my logic? And I realize it isn't me. It's the player base. People here clear their friends and people they like for questionable to no reason. I mean, I love Zander to bits. But this is a game. And he is just as likely to rand scum as any of my other friends and people that I like. In the mean time, I watch Lenlo get pounded into the dirt over and over again. I will grant you that we have been lucky he has randed scum for some of them. But honestly, he was going to get pounded regardless of alignment as he was here. And for whatever reason, people tinfoil on me A LOT more here than anywhere else despite the fact I seldom rand wolf anymore. So this means it must be a reputation thing. And if it's a reputation thing? I can never shed that. So that made me come to the realization that I really just can't play mafia here anymore. But then as I thought about it further I realized that if I don't play mafia here I really have nothing to add to this board so quite honestly I'll just stop coming to this site entirely.

 

I guess this is a long winded way of me saying that I'm retiring from DM mafia. And that I won't likely be on this site very often as a result. So I hope many of you will come visit mafiauniverse.net [soon to be mafiauniverse.com]. Because... this is my goodbye.

[Clovdyx]

I think it's safe to say we're probably not going to see eye-to-eye on Bender tonight, Yates.  Talk to me about why I'm wrong about Tress?  Because I wasn't feeling GOOD about her before, and I'm not feeling any better now that she just looked through every post AJ made and accomplished basically nothing with it.

[Yates]

What's your opinion on Tabor?

Undetermined. But I had her at like 60% likely scum with Bender at 95% and Clov at 85%. And the crazy thing is? I can see a scum team of EXACTLY Bender/Clov/Tabs based on interactions and certain posts directed at me.

[BFG]

 

 

Fab, I don't follow your thought process at all in the last paragraph. Cam you explain why you think that's a bad sign?

Temporary truce?

 

I'm a little insulted you think I'm at war with you.

 

It was a tongue in cheek way of saying I'm backing off temporarily :/ I mean for as much as I'm around I can ramp up to full BFG if you want, but last time that happened I think I made Hallia cry (although fair do's Hallia shot me soon after) and it's not pretty or elegant.

[BFG]

 

What's your opinion on Tabor?

Undetermined. But I had her at like 60% likely scum with Bender at 95% and Clov at 85%. And the crazy thing is? I can see a scum team of EXACTLY Bender/Clov/Tabs based on interactions and certain posts directed at me.

 

Ok, can you go into more detail on Tabor? Can you reiterate your case on Clov?

[BFG]

So here's the post I've been dreading....

 

[deep breath]

 

As I looked back at the Lenlo mislynch and considered the conviction and tenacity with which I pursued a Bender lynch I was left with one burning question; what went wrong? I felt like I raised good points about Zander in particular. I felt like - in a vacuum - my case was WAY more solid than anything else presented. And as I look back on the success I have on other sites I wonder why I can't duplicate that success here. Why can't I get people to follow my logic? And I realize it isn't me. It's the player base. People here clear their friends and people they like for questionable to no reason. I mean, I love Zander to bits. But this is a game. And he is just as likely to rand scum as any of my other friends and people that I like. In the mean time, I watch Lenlo get pounded into the dirt over and over again. I will grant you that we have been lucky he has randed scum for some of them. But honestly, he was going to get pounded regardless of alignment as he was here. And for whatever reason, people tinfoil on me A LOT more here than anywhere else despite the fact I seldom rand wolf anymore. So this means it must be a reputation thing. And if it's a reputation thing? I can never shed that. So that made me come to the realization that I really just can't play mafia here anymore. But then as I thought about it further I realized that if I don't play mafia here I really have nothing to add to this board so quite honestly I'll just stop coming to this site entirely.

 

I guess this is a long winded way of me saying that I'm retiring from DM mafia. And that I won't likely be on this site very often as a result. So I hope many of you will come visit mafiauniverse.net [soon to be mafiauniverse.com]. Because... this is my goodbye.

Why say this now? Obviously I'm sad you don't enjoy playing here any more, but why not wait till the end of the game to bring up your retirement?