[Standard] The Matrix Reloaded - Game Over

[Sili Quirrels]

it's not distracting because this isn't pog and people don't post enough to be distracting.

[Shad_]

no.

kk

[Sili Quirrels]

so ppl should do what they want, and we will get more information the more they move in the box.

 

don't remove the box, because that gives them freedom.

[Zander?]

 

Catching up on mobile.

 

Between the Nomi/Dice thing I really like Nomi's points. He's going above and beyond trying to explain himself

 

[v] Dice [/v]

 

For now.

 

And Cory - I said last night I was there to talk in real time with you and you vanished. I also said that I would do a re-read today and pay you special mind.

 

Thoughts on potential v/v violence?

 

 

its possible but i dont know if im feeling it atp

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well I had some posts queued up but I lost them so oh well. But I think the push on me is stupid but not scummy. I think it was silli that was saying they were expecting me to finally say something when I got back but I pretty clearly stated in my post that I wasn't going to actually be able to catch up until later. So now I'm gonna give you some thoughts.

 

I don't really set out with a concrete strategy, but the Lenlo thing was kinda just looking for actions. I wasn't entirely happy with Lenlo's reactions to it but it wasn't terrible and I have a bigger scum read anyways.

 

I think Zander is scum. I thought his opening post felt forced but some people said it was just him so I was like whatever. Someone else pointed this out (I forget who) but he's spent a lot of time just defending and backing people up. It's a pretty easy tactic to lay low and get on some people's good side. Zander said that he had been attacking people though, but it wasn't a high risk one. He just jumped on the popular Lenlo bandwagon. His reasoning wasn't good either, Lenlo imo was pretty clearly just using a mostly gut read on that person who had barely posted so I didn't get why Zander was making a big deal about it. It felt like a weak reason to jump on a popular bandwagon. I'm gonna Vote: Zander

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Things that make me say, "Hmmm..."

Penny for you thoughts?

 

Your argument is not very good, and Sili following you - if serious - is terribad.

 

I obviously disagree on the argument so we'll just agree to disagree on this point

 

 

I'm sure you do, but I don't see how.  The initial post thing is whatever - if you don't know Zander, it might feel forced, but I can pull dozens of examples of posts like that where he was town.  I think it was Yates that summed it up perfectly...it's 100% null for him.  

 

Defending and backing people up is a pretty fair claim, but as I said with Pral, not sure that's really scummy.  Finding townies significantly narrows down the possible pool for mafia, so there's a lot of value there, and I would say it's usually easier to find a few good town reads on D1 than a strong mafia read (barring an absolute screw up).  In terms of laying low...I would fully buy that if it were true, but for Zander, specifically, this is hardly the case.  The guy has over a hundred posts and has been one of the most active players in the game.

 

Biggest issue is your claim of him piling on.  I don't think Lenlo was really a popular wagon at all when Zander voted; he had votes from you and Sili.  In a phase where it's 9 to lynch, 2 votes don't mean a whole lot.  It means even less when there's five days left in the phase and neither your vote nor Sili's had much backing behind it.

 

 

The initial posting thing wasn't really a big part of my argument at all, it was just the event that made his posts stand out to me while I was catching up.

 

When I said lay low, I meant it as in he wasn't saying anything offensive that would draw attention to himself. I think he phrased his words carefully. On post 435 Pralaya posted some quotes of his that emphasize it. Note that in none of them does he say he thinks someone is town. He imo is calculating with his language, instead phrasing it as him not thinking that town or mafia (Player) would do that but he also leaves some doubt in the posts so he could possibly wiggle out of it later without looking too bad. I think it's a very clear scum tactic.

 

Lenlo may have only had 2 votes then, but he put it to three which is a third of the vote. The rest of the votes were really spread out at the time too. Not only that, but there were a couple of people who had said things about Lenlo around there that they were iffy. It's not crazy to think that Zander was hoping to start a little run.

 

 

 

In red are you referring to Lenlo's vote on Laine, which prompted Zander's initial vote? If so, let's recalibrate a little here. Zander's initial vote on Lenlo was a joke. Just like, accept that. It's a Zander thing. Moreover, I don't think town!Zander would pause to think that putting Lenlo at 3 is a bad look. That definitely does not mean that scum!Zander would not see the joke as a convenient opportunity to 'start a little run' as you characterize it in your quote. So with that in mind, here are the first three posts in which Zander converts to a serious vote. How does this impact your opinion?:

 

 

 

 

 

My vote on lenlo is based on this: and I've already said this in the thread.

 

His posts were forced, they lack content, he hadn't until just now after i implied he should, addressed his wagon in a concerted way which may or may not be scum who is playing it safe and hoping the storm will pass. I obviously, being me after all, will not like this behavior. I am glad he finally addressed his wagon.

 

more later when i get home.

Forced/Lacked content - I assume your talking about post #51? That post wasnt even 3 pages into the game and it was my first post. Your using that to say im forcing my posts/lacking content? Whats your opinion on Pral, Nomi or say Dice then? None of them have posted much and what they have hasnt been content. Id like to see if you have a similar opinion about them or are singling me out for some reason.

 

The wagon - Concerted? So a planned way? You mean I ignored something that was just two people ranting at me without telling me what for? Now that you have actually told me what im being bothered about I can answer it, but you cant expect someone to respond to something that was never mentioned.

 

i dont know if its just me but this post is very meh imo. im gonna have to go back and read his posts.

 

 

 

 

Page 4 - Sili goes crazy. Hes kinda spamming the thread here, most of it is pointless. Why?

 

Thane has 2 posts. Nothing of content in them. Checks in then checks out

 

Rack hasnt actually contributed at all. Hes just pushed something with no reason and then let Sili do all the work. atleast in terms of my train. He did alittle bit of poking at Zander but nothing serious. I feel like he might be pushing me early as a reaction train? Like see what people do, who jumps on a quick bandwagon, how I defend myself. Just get some overall reactions. Seeing how he plays it out will be interesting and telling imo.

 

Zander posted a good amount, but mostly just light hearted stuff. I want MEAT. Quick to jump on me, and stay on me I might add, when I vote Corlanna jokingly.

 

Clov disagrees with Rack on Zander, but thinks hes town. Also engages Sili abit. Hes not afraid to confront people

 

Lots of inactives this game. We have to be careful about people pushing them for weak reasons, as I think that would be an easy for the scum to rack up some easy days/kills.

 

Cory not saying anything meaningful, votes Sooh. Cmon Coreh. Help me out here.

 

Hallia soft defends me for no reason. Its not major but something worth noting imo.

 

Sooh pokes at Sili, doesnt back it with a vote. I dunno why but I kinda feel like she is testing the waters for a Sili push. Have nothing to back this up atm sadly.

 

Dice gettin friendly with Sooh.

 

Yates comes in guns blazing. I noticed Sili is questionable of it, but I like it.

 

Sili, lots of votes, lots of posts, moderate amount of content imo. Got into it with Yates. Gets pissy at me when I dismiss his and Racks push on me because it has nothing to it. I asked if he was drunk. Apparently this was stupid. Im still amused by it. After I respond to him though, he finally posts a good meaningful, more than 1 line post. I liked it.

 

Tab posts. Says nothing.

 

Shad is playin. I cant really get a read on him for some reason, but hes posting content so... yay? I wanna like him but I feel like I need something more, so I can make sure its not just me liking him cause he defended me/chatted with me.

 

Nomi. Votes Yates jokingly, even though Sili has been going at him. Odd?

 

 

 

 

I had quotes, but it kinda went up in flames cause DM. I have work I need to do tonight, so im just gonna post my notepad thoughts that came up as I was reading. Heres my current list.

 

 

(In not particular order)

 

Town:

Clov

Yates

Lenlo

 

Null to Town:

Rack

Shad

Sili

 

Null:

Hallia

Parlaya

Corlanna (Cory/Alanna)

Taborline

Dice

BFG

Nomi

 

Null to Scum:

Thane

Zander

Sooh

 

Scum:

 

 

 

[v]Sooh[/v]

 

I wanna see how this goes, and maybe shed some light on Dice and Sili in the process.

 

*peeks in*

 

wow, i was surprised that the PM arrived. Seems like we have a game after all

 

*hands out drinks and stuff to nibble on*

 

*stretches*

 

alright, will the wolves just out themselves so we can get wrecking?

 

*feels loved*

 

remind me not to send you chocolate in the future.....

 

So your top 3 Scum reads:

 

So you have Thane null to scum based on the above posts.

Sooh based on sussing Sili

Me for being lighthearted and voting you.

 

 

this is just a horrible list man.

 

 

Thane: Not doing anything at all. Just checking out.

Sooh: General tone and a bad feeling.

You: High post count, little content.

 

Disagree? Please, gimme somethin to work with.

Thane: Have you ever played with Thane before...its early D1 extremely normal for Thane atp imo

 

Sooh: I don't think her tone is off. bad feeling i can agree with a bit because unlike innocent till proven guilty Sooh is always wolf till proven town to me. but ive mislynched or helped to enough times to give her some more time before coming to a conclusion like that.

 

lolololololol----Sorry Sooh

 

Me: HI IM ZANDER

 

It almost seems like you were just picking names out of a hat.

 

 

And you complained about leaving my vote on you when you voted Corlanna first then i voted you. and your vote was there till you made the comment and voted Sooh.....

 

im pretty happy keeping my vote where it is brah.

 

 

 

I'm talking about Lenlo listed someone who had barely posted in his bottom three and Zander asked why that person stood out over others who had barely posted. Lenlo was saying that their posts just felt off and everything which I felt was a valid response since I think gut reads are a good starting point for suspicions. Anyways, Zander kept attacking Lenlo for it, asking for specifics when a gut read isn't going to get more specific than that. A gut read is a gut read. I felt as though it was a poor reason to push someone.

 

Yeah, I thought you were probably talking about Thane but I didn't want to assume it straight away

 

So here's what I'm looking at:

 

You said: "He just jumped on the popular Lenlo bandwagon. His reasoning wasn't good either, Lenlo imo was pretty clearly just using a mostly gut read on that person who had barely posted so I didn't get why Zander was making a big deal about it. It felt like a weak reason to jump on a popular bandwagon."

 

Clov said: "Biggest issue is your claim of him piling on. I don't think Lenlo was really a popular wagon at all when Zander voted; he had votes from you and Sili. In a phase where it's 9 to lynch, 2 votes don't mean a whole lot. It means even less when there's five days left in the phase and neither your vote nor Sili's had much backing behind it."

 

You said: "Lenlo may have only had 2 votes then, but he put it to three which is a third of the vote. The rest of the votes were really spread out at the time too. Not only that, but there were a couple of people who had said things about Lenlo around there that they were iffy. It's not crazy to think that Zander was hoping to start a little run."

 

What's bugging me is that when Clov objected that Zander's vote was insignificant you offered a counterargument instead of saying "that's not what I was talking about".  But you seem to recognize that the vote was just in jest and the "piling on" came later.  It shows me you were probably thinking more about formulating a rebuttal to Clov than about your opinion of Zander.

 

 

If you assumed it was Thane (I think this was the person) then why did you write out a long response about something else earlier? If you didn't want to assume then I don't get why you wrote a long response as though we were talking about Zander's vote for someone else. And I totally disagree that it was in jest. I think that he threw down the vote on the most popular train at the time in hopes of getting people to jump on. There were other people around that time who had said some iffy things about Lenlo so imo Zander was trying to get those people to jump on the wagon.

 

 

You mean the "In red are you referring to Lenlo's vote on Laine, which prompted Zander's initial vote?" etc post?  Moments like that are what I look back on proudly when I actually catch scum. 

 

And as I said, "That definitely does not mean that scum!Zander would not see the joke as a convenient opportunity to 'start a little run' as you characterize it in your quote."  But there is no disputing whether the vote was a joke.  The debatable topic is whether the joke disguised ulterior motives.  You are now committing to the view that it had ulterior motives from the get-go.  Ok.  Elaborate on what, in your opinion, might have lead scum!Zander to make this decision.

 

 

I have explained it multiple times. There were some people who expressing some small-ish doubts on Lenlo so he was trying to draw them into maybe voting. If he'd gotten just one person to join him on the wagon then that would be nearly half the votes needed with nobody else being close. If you're asking for info on why specifically Zander might do that then you're just out of luck because I don't know Zander at all.

 

 

 

still with this crap... *le sigh*

 

[Sili Quirrels]

oh is that house?

[Sili Quirrels]

why dont u like what rack said zander? im too lazy to piece it together.

[Zander?]

 

 

Hallia/Nomi have w/w equity as well.

 

Hmmm

it crossed my mind, but would hallia really be so unlucky as to rand wolf yet again? Past couple of games had quite a bit of halliwolf in it

 

 

The desire to let this impact me read is so tempting and terribad.  >_<

 

 

 

on Cory or Thane or Hallia?

[Hallia]

Maybe I just always read Dice as scummy, but I go with my gut and a person's play.

[Sili Quirrels]

Maybe I just always read Dice as scummy, but I go with my gut and a person's play.

r you sure that's wise?

[Yates]

[v]Rackcitykitty[/v]

[Sili Quirrels]

Hi Yates, nice to see you on a relevant wagon. How's it hanging?

[Zander?]

 

Don't like either of these wagons

I agree. I'm in particular not a fan of the Zander-wagon.

 

 

Me neither!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Hallia/Nomi have w/w equity as well.

 

Hmmm

it crossed my mind, but would hallia really be so unlucky as to rand wolf yet again? Past couple of games had quite a bit of halliwolf in it

 

 

Of course she could.

 

 

 

ofc she could.....but odds are pretty low. but then this......

 

 

 

Hallia/Nomi have w/w equity as well.

 

Hmmm

it crossed my mind, but would hallia really be so unlucky as to rand wolf yet again? Past couple of games had quite a bit of halliwolf in it

 

 

I follow the Leelou principle of "sometimes when it rains, it pours"

 

 

 

could have prolly used Cass her as well lolololololol

[Zander?]

Its really starting to get to me, like I have no idea why people are clearing you Zander. Its almost purely off of your personality and its legitimately infuriating.

 

Someone that isnt Shad or Zander please explain just what the heck you people see in him, cause I just see a carefree coasting attitude similar to what I used to try to do, just taken to the extreme. 

 

 

we'll see how much coasting there is when i see you lynched glgl scum

[Zander?]

Zander/Lenlo argument is just a distraction at this point

 

Lenlo, Zander doesn't care that you don't care for his fire-from-the-hips say whatever comes to mind rely on gut personality and playstyle, he's #nofilter and this is what he does. Feelers gonna feel.

 

Zander, Lenlo doesn't care that you don't like his rigidness and value in explanations and linear thinking over just sort of feeling your way through things. This has been Lenlo for years and at least he's talking and I'm interested in what Lenlo has to say about things other than you but every time the thread moves in an interesting direction you two are going at it like jackrabbits. Thinkers gonna think.

 

Kiss and make up

 

 

you know i love you Cory but NO

[Zander?]

 

 

FYI- im Weidman

[Shad_]

 

 

 

Hallia/Nomi have w/w equity as well.

 

Hmmm

it crossed my mind, but would hallia really be so unlucky as to rand wolf yet again? Past couple of games had quite a bit of halliwolf in it

 

 

The desire to let this impact me read is so tempting and terribad.  >_<

 

 

 

on Cory or Thane or Hallia?

 

Huh? Hallia.

[Zander?]

 

 

This whole "I'm keeping my cards close to my chest" and "I'd rather they didn't know I was looking at them" thing, is that common for him as town?

 

It's common for WF players in either alignment

 

They don't like making reads

 

Rack can be a villagery villager but sometimes his ranges can get muddled

 

I would say he's well within his wolf range aorn

 

I want to vote him, and at the same time the darned "leave the newbies be on D1"-thing is keeping me from it. 

 

Still not sure about Dice. I find him very suspicious, but if Cory says he's town I'll believe that. At least today. 

 

 

 

Scum is Scum is Scum...if you think someone scum you should vote for them regardless imo.

[Yates]

Hi Yates, nice to see you on a relevant wagon. How's it hanging?

Low. And to the left.

[Zander?]

 

Zander/Lenlo argument is just a distraction at this point

 

Lenlo, Zander doesn't care that you don't care for his fire-from-the-hips say whatever comes to mind rely on gut personality and playstyle, he's #nofilter and this is what he does. Feelers gonna feel.

 

Zander, Lenlo doesn't care that you don't like his rigidness and value in explanations and linear thinking over just sort of feeling your way through things. This has been Lenlo for years and at least he's talking and I'm interested in what Lenlo has to say about things other than you but every time the thread moves in an interesting direction you two are going at it like jackrabbits. Thinkers gonna think.

 

Kiss and make up

Cory, i doubt i have told you that i you this game yet...

 

so:

 

 

 

lovemeld

 

 

i obv want in on this guys!!!!!   :wub:

 

 

 

 

 

Dice would be town this game imo. Nomi, not so sure

You think? I'm having trouble coming to this conclusion. What are you seeing?

 

Yates, his play has gone nearly FullDICE, but nothing says wolf here to me. I'm highly trusting my gut here for the moment. When the game continues and we have a few flips, we'll see more clearly.

 

dice is not a target this D1.  

 

 

You keep making me want to vote Dice even more.

 

 

 

do what you feel is right my dear

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

Dice would be town this game imo. Nomi, not so sure

You think? I'm having trouble coming to this conclusion. What are you seeing?

 

Yates, his play has gone nearly FullDICE, but nothing says wolf here to me. I'm highly trusting my gut here for the moment. When the game continues and we have a few flips, we'll see more clearly.

 

dice is not a target this D1.  

 

 

You keep making me want to vote Dice even more.

 

In a very "These aren't the droids you're looking for" sort of way.

i suppose these two are connected?

 

i'll take the role of obi wan gladly then. "Dice is not the wolf you're looking for. Move along"

 

 

Oops, they were connected yes.

 

Shad, reads are looking like:

 

Sili

Corlanna

 

Zander

Clov

 

Yates

Shad

BFG

Rack

Hallia

Parlaya

Sooh

 

Nomi

Lenlo

 

Thane

Dice

 

My Town reads are, at this point, more gut than anything. I feel comfortable with Corlanna and Sili, they seem consistent with how I've played with them before, though apparently Cory is really good at being townie when he's a wolf, so we'll see.

 

 

 

not a bad list except Thane should be in some form of green imo.

[Pralaya]

Seriously compare Pral's posts to this game to his Ragnarok posts

 

Every little thing is buttered up and wordy and "looks like he's thinking"

 

In Ragnarok he was very IDGAF, here are my reads deal with it in his sparse, sparse posting

 

He even SAID after the game that if he was a wolf he would have tried to look better

 

DEW THE MATH

 

Lawlz. And, you thought I was scum in Ragnarok because I had a IDGAF attitude. You so desperately want to catch me as scum on D1 in some game or the other, heh. 

[Zander?]

ASK A CORKY

 

Q: How do you have [that read] on dice!???

A: I read dice really really well.

NEXT QUESTION

 

im pretty sure Ive only read Dice wrong like once in like prolly at least 6 plus games though.

 

ill look him over again but im not sure what ill see different.

[Zander?]

 

Well I had some posts queued up but I lost them so oh well. But I think the push on me is stupid but not scummy. I think it was silli that was saying they were expecting me to finally say something when I got back but I pretty clearly stated in my post that I wasn't going to actually be able to catch up until later. So now I'm gonna give you some thoughts.

 

I don't really set out with a concrete strategy, but the Lenlo thing was kinda just looking for actions. I wasn't entirely happy with Lenlo's reactions to it but it wasn't terrible and I have a bigger scum read anyways.

 

I think Zander is scum. I thought his opening post felt forced but some people said it was just him so I was like whatever. Someone else pointed this out (I forget who) but he's spent a lot of time just defending and backing people up. It's a pretty easy tactic to lay low and get on some people's good side. Zander said that he had been attacking people though, but it wasn't a high risk one. He just jumped on the popular Lenlo bandwagon. His reasoning wasn't good either, Lenlo imo was pretty clearly just using a mostly gut read on that person who had barely posted so I didn't get why Zander was making a big deal about it. It felt like a weak reason to jump on a popular bandwagon. I'm gonna Vote: Zander

Sorry Z, meant for you to respond to this one.

 

This is a concern that isnt coming from me, so maybe youll actually answer it instead of dancing around it with gifs and pictures.

 

 

 

ok i did respond to this already.

 

 

visual aids are important though....

[Zander?]

 

 

Do you think Dice and Nomi can be w/w or does a scum flip from one clear the other?

 

No, I don't think a flip would necessarily clear the other.

 

 

If Nomi is w I am literally never lynching dice

 

Dice can bus but I have NEVER seen him bus a partner like that. Dice instigated it IIRC

 

 

 

what if Dice flips wolf???