Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

[alannalynn]

Alanna - I saw your question when i was skimming this morning right before my commute, but forgot to respond bc it was built into a huge catchup wall.

 

Do i think a villager would attempt a nonchalant or brush-off move to avoid pressure. Sure. Happens all the time. But, i think it raises eyebrows bc of its effectiveness. He did two in a row so i pushed him and was never satisfied with how long it took to get him to engage me or in his confusing responses.

 

I pushed bc of his response, but it def is not enough to be alignment indicative which is what i think your getting at. My dislike of Shad is the culmination of that action, his circular evasiveness, and the fact that its blatantly clear he never did anything but be defensive.

I like this response

 

Shad don't judge me for saying this, but I feel like you were a little ooc earlier when you were being evasive. I think this is my problem with trying to decide if you are coming off scummy or not. I'm more likely to conclude that the brushing off of attacks is more of a town move from Shad. I believe you would think more about how you appear to town as mafia.

 

 

Nyn don't judge, you know my weird schedule for the most part lol

 

That doesn't sound any better Calder

I wish I could paypal naps to you. 

That would be greatly appreciated <3

 

 

Crush, who would you have us look at besides Kiv and Nyn if you flip town? Because I don't exactly feel like a town flip from you would look terrible for them under the circumstances.

Yep. Hate this post. Back to [v]Shad[/v].

Crusher/Shad/Nolder maybe?

 

Shad's line of questioning looks like he knows Crusher is gonna turn up inno though.

 

Nolder has been defending both to some degree.

Disagree. His question and treatment of Crusher at this point is null.

[Clovdyx]

-Still feel pretty good about Calder, but maybe just a hair worse than I did yesterday.  There were a couple posts by him that just didn't jive with me.

 

 

 

 

Kivam - i did not say that he was trying to line up a lynch on you or nyn. I agree that it is the opposite. He seems to want someone else to look at that isnt either of you. Which is the main reason it struck me. Bc he is saying not these guys Crusher, who else can we pin it on.

 

 

...Actually, this one doesn't bother me as much, now that I've looked at it the third time.  I was originally thinking I could understand his point if he had saying Shad WAS trying to set up Kiv/Nyn but thought Calder was just blatantly wrong here.  Now that I look at Shad's post again, Calder actually has the correct interpretation; Shad said who should we look at besides those two.  LOLme.  Whatever, leaving it because #YOLO.

 

 

On mobile again and channeling Hess, so no quotes, but that first point is total bs, calder. You asked why i would care of he was lynched when i had a null read. I answered.

I asked "why you would dissuade me from my push on Shad." Not if you wanted him lynched. You know that and it is different. But, I am fine with us stopping the line of questioning if you don't like the question. This is really only interesting to me when you get angry anyway.

 

 

My only problem with this is that it just seems too specific...and I say this as somebody known to nitpick the hell out of things.  Yeah, there's technically a difference in those two.  But logically speaking, if Kivam doesn't think Shad is scummy enough to push, I don't find anything off about him trying to get others not to lynch Shad.  This is a team game - I will defend my town reads from cases, and I'll defend my nulls if I think there's a significantly better option.

 

That being said, I don't think this is inherently scummy from Calder.  I think Calder's a smart enough - and experienced enough player - that I have some concerns, but it's not something to crucify him over.  WF doesn't necessarily have a strong team mentality for townies.  They typically haven't formed a "town core" and worked together to find townies to help form a POE.  

 

 

 

 

 I'll probably never be completely comfortable with him, mostly because I don't want to say I got burned by him.  

 

-Shad's trending up for me.  This is mostly a gut read, but I think he would actually be less defensive and argumentative as mafia.  I think he did incredibly well as mafia in his first game, and even though he got pressure as scum in TUS, I don't think he really drew a ton of negative attention to himself; it's almost like having 15 other mafia trying to kill you gets you voted.  AJ thought he looked bad for trying to find the mafia voting him, but I disagree; Town!Shad would know he's town, so finding the people with the worst reasons for voting him would actually be a pretty productive way to find mafia.  

 

He also made a catch I thought was pretty decent, and it seemed most people ignored it.

 

 

 

 

 

In spoiler because mehh lots of quotes, don't wanna crowd things up.

Read up to the top of pg10 for now, so this is what I have so far.

Few questions within (Shad, Calder, Clov, Andrej)

 

 

 

 

Here. As I said, limited me until Thursday. Possibly no me until Thursday. I will do my best. I've now been awake for like 35 hours straight and won't be sleeping for another 8-9.
Alanna tired y'all
#helpme

Alanna's playing to her scum meta here.

 

 

 

Rage will be worth it.

 

 

? Unfortunately though, the last two(?) games I've been scum in, I was horribly behind all of d1. I think I'm getting into terrible habits in general though 

 

"I hope she's not keeping quiet because she's afraid I'm high-tuned to her scum game."

 

 

 

[v]Calder[/v]
Scum.

 

Too easy probably, but it crossed my mind.

This post really pinged me when I read it and the followup is "meh"....

Oh hey this isn't actually your first mafia game.

^

 

Calder's post #45 doesn't make sense to me. I don't think that post was meant as a soft defense. If we're going by Shad thinking this was your first game, I can see where it crosses a player's mind that newbies roll scum (are we looking at the same OP?) But at the same time, I'm not sure I believe that, due to your comfortability in the sign up thread or your OP. Shad is more observant than this unless he didn't really read any of it and took comfortability as a matter of course. Shad's first game was very ~odd in that he seemed more experienced that he should have been and many assumed mafia (coaching).

That being said, not sure I'm feeling the "half-hearted defense" angle that Calder takes. But this post is believable, as well as Shad's followup on post 54 (it lines up with my train of thought above about him not reading- how much merit is there to this?). His dodging posts don't do him any favors though, but I'm not sure that's within his mafia meta.

 

 

Lol. Damn phone. Response went into the quote section. So repeated below (shortened):
My issue is that it has the feel of a post that doesnt need to be made. It is game related, but says nothing and means little. So why post it if ur town?
Its the scum "hey guys im active post."

 

Interesting.  Would you expect scum to post read-related fluff right off the bat?

Feels slightly defensive, but I can see Shad saying this as town to get a read on Calder, especially now knowing he's experienced.

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got Calder as reasonable town right now.  I don't hate the reasoning for his initial push against Shad at all, and his response to Shad's question wasn't wrong IMO.

 

Gutread on Shad was just barely above rand for mafia after Calder's point, and #50 sounded like he was trying too hard to appear not concerned, but #54 is plausible enough to keep him null at this point.

Clov, first sentence worries me, second confuses me, and last bit had me nodding my head along.

 

 

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got Calder as reasonable town right now.  I don't hate the reasoning for his initial push against Shad at all, and his response to Shad's question wasn't wrong IMO.
 
Gutread on Shad was just barely above rand for mafia after Calder's point, and #50 sounded like he was trying too hard to appear not concerned, but #54 is plausible enough to keep him null at this point.

Not bad.

Tbh I was sort of intrigued by Shad's initial response to my vote because I didn't actually have a reason for it. His explanation in misunderstanding that Calder isn't new was plausible at the least.

Calder's push back was alright. I like that he noted Shad's +1 although I hadn't specified anything but he seems experienced enough to be able to play the POV game. His response to my vote was null but there was nothing really to respond to. I just wanted to see how he'd react early on since he's new to me.

 

 

Townie post

 

 

 

 

 

 

I literally cannot wait to watch these two interact.

YESSSSS

 

Hah.

You made 2 nonchalant posts (46 and 50), which i have been criticizing. So your post again is worthless.

Also you have only asked one significant question and i answered that you were leading and it was a WIFOM question with no answer.

Question: Can you see a villager being nonchalant about pressure in an attempt to diffuse pressure?

 

Andrej being helpful townie and preaching. Fos

I take this back reading in context. Andrej looking good ITT

 

The fact he's being helpful means ~nothing towards his alignment.  AJ is a very good player so I don't think he's incapable of making that post as mafia at all.  I think Mafia!AJ would probably WANT a bunch of early fakepeeks, since they (theoretically) would have a lower likeliness of being accurate and that helps narrow the NK poe, but I don't think he's going to come in and recommend it - especially when a handful of us recently played with him in the same setup when he waited to post a peek for accuracy reasons.  He was town, and I'm positive he's smart enough to know the sudden change of heart would stand out.

 

That being said, I don't see how it would ever warrant a FoS.  I'm giving him 0 towncred for trying to be helpful, but I don't see a reasonable argument why anybody would suspect him for being mafia for it.

Anyways... I said this post was odd because it just popped out of nowhere. My Fos was not serious, my subsequent post towards Clov about the seriousness of my post was also not serious. So, I found this post of his to be out of place because it doesn't match up with the attitude that I was presenting ITT at that point, which was something similar to exhausted playful indifference?

 

Kiv is right in #127
I only just understood Clov's post #128... I literally asked for him to decide it for me then called him out for explaining. OMG wow I'm sorry dear LOL My point above still mostly(?) stands though, maybe except for the first line 

I also concede my points on Andrej that I made about his posts (p7) 

#143 Shad, do you think Calder being sure you are mafia and not allowing for a town alternative is motivated by town or mafia thinking? 

#151 interesting from Zander: this would destroy the credibility that Shad just missed the Calder-talk

#157 from Shad... I think I would like this post better if you straight up answered the accusation instead of brushing it off again. You're a little sloppy this game   Also, no more quote pyramids. They suck.

 

 

 

So far I like Zander, Clov, Andrej for the most part. Wary of Calder. Iffy on Shad. What I'm getting caught up with irt Shad is how he was in Pulp Fiction. It was a gut feel that he was mafia, but on the thread itself he was pretty clean. So here and now, I'm not getting that same gut feel, but it appears he's getting tripped up in the thread. Maybe things will clear up a little bit better when I read some more though?

 

I also get this weird feeling that all that's been talked about d1 is Shad. If he turns out to be our lynch and flips town, I'm going to be a little bothered that it was so easy for mafia to sit back in this exchange and let it happen. Basically, I want to see some pressure happen in other areas too :)

 

TMI? 

 

 

I know a lot of people claim things are TMI that aren't, but I think Alanna actually looks really bad for that post.  Compare this to the "TMI" used against Shad.  Shad basically said "if this happens, what should we do?".  Alanna's statement is still conditional, but it really doesn't matter, because Shad's alignment has nothing to do with the fact Alanna is implying mafia isn't driving his lynch.  

 

 

 

 

-I'm still not comfortable with Hallia, but I have enough people that I feel worse about that a POE would put her as town.

[Hallia]

Up through 29

 

I'm whoever the hell this is.. Sarine Tarasind.  Read through and if we get close enough to deadline Im a good lynch for today.  Yes Im town but I think my lynch would shine a light on a lot of people. Nyn reacted to a number two vote on her by basically giving up. I mean hell she was ready to give up after one vote from Kivam.  At JN that would bring attention yet here people defended her.  Mybe it's chivalry? She is a very sweet Yummy Bunny after all. 

 

Kivam made a silly list in the begininning of the game saying my meta was making early game jokes and Crusher could be town or scum but I will wait.   He waited for my very first vote of the game.  Yeah nothing weird there.  So if we get close to deadline lynch me and you should be able to use the information to find scum.  Yes I love the town that much.  Each and every one of you. 

This seems like an awfully quick claim.  Also, up til this point, I don't see how your flip would shine a light on really anyone bar Nyn.

 

My thoughts and reds as follows.

 

Right now feeling good about AJ and Clov. I'm leaving tinfoil for later, if the three of us are still alive later in the game. Hopefully scum solves that for me or I'm too dead to care. . But for now, they're green. Welcome to the club, boys    I kinda wanna put Calder in here too. He did have good content and I've liked a lot of his posts. But I'm also taking into account the meta Clov spoke of..... and that he sort of gotten a little quiet.... so I'd like to see what more he has to say, beyond his thoughts about Shad. So.... tentative green, but subject to change if his involvement decreases. 

 

Null to town. Light green. Kivam falls into this pile. Not ready to put him in the greens yet cause he pissed me off and I keep grudges     But I've been wrecking my brain about it and I think his actions are coming from a townie mindset. I think what I need to seal him as a green is Crusher's flip. Two more that are going into this pile are Zander and Hallia. Mostly gut. I don't have as much experience with Zander so I could be wrong. But for now I feel okay about him. With Halli.... I just sort of know. It's silly, but the way she told me to just have fun and not let anyone bug me makes me feel better about her. She's engaging me like she usually does. And her perceiving the Shad/Calder thing as V/V isn't that uncharacteristic of her imo (I recall someone said it might be TMI,,, I just think she has a different outlook on things sometimes). I don't agree with her.... but we often disagree, to be fair. I still want to see more from her, like always. But I feel somewhat more comfortable with her atm.

 

 

Null are basically Thane and dice. I'm not sure yet. Once they accumulate more content I'll reassess. Nothing they've said so far wowed me one way or the other.

 

 

Null to scum: Laine and Nolder. Like I said, Laine has had a bad entry to the game. And then wasn't really around due to RL. Looking forward to see what she has to say when she catches up. If it wasn't for her earlier stuff, she'd be null right now... but that pushes her over to slightly scummy.  Nolder feels a little off to me. He was really slow getting into the game (though that can be said of quite a few players). Really not sure of his defense of Crusher. lunno. We're talking right now, so we'll see.

 

Scum: Shad and Crusher. For reasons already stated. tldr, Crusher for pouncing.... reeked of scum piggyback riding (and almost caused an earthquake) and OMGUS charge on Kiv over a made up reason. Shad's reactions have improved but I just can't shake off his initial play. From what I've seen of him in games before.... his behavior has been kinda uncharacteristic. I don't have much experience with him... maybe a couple of games.... but from what I know, he's a lot more together and makes reasonable sense. Kinda missing that here.... felt kinda all over the place. Doing a little better now... just not sure if it's enough at this point.

I like where your reads come from.  I might disagree on a couple of them, but it's not bad.

[Shad_]

 

fwiw treating people I think are scum as town is pretty normal for me. I would say ask AJ

 

Also the way you're questioning Crusher here about where to go next if he flips town as you seemingly gear up to vote him makes me uneasy.

Hence why I hate this comment.

 

Fwiw, I think you're vastly overestimating how much I remember about players. I would say I have general meta on those I play with frequently, and at times can recall very specific things, but in this case I don't.

 

If you're town then I certainly must be overestimating. I like to think we had a solid good cop/bad cop thing going in Belichick and I singled you out here because of it. You're one of the last people I expect to be bothered by me petting my prey.

 

 

Grasping at straws for what? I am trying to figure out which of the votes on me are wolves. Dice's vote feels pure enough. I think Calder is scum. Decent chance either you or AJ are but probably not both. AJ promised me a response and I resolved my earlier bad feelings about him on ISO. You are a bit of a mystery. So answer my question: why did you reinterpret it as scum attacking you instead of scum joking with you?

Does anyone voting you necessarily have to be scum? I disagree on Calder at this point. If you're town I may consider it more, but I think he handled the situation between the two of you much better. Zander I'm still sort of undecided on but he may be an associative town read of mine pending further info.

 

Chances of five town (four currently) piling onto a town with no scum contributing is slim imo. If Crusher flips scum I would say it's close to zero.

 

 

First paragraph, 1) I've yet to see anyone actually bring up my points and agree or disagree with them. You are someone I kind of rely on as town to consider the substance of my argument carefully. Your town game tends to have an investigative phase followed by concrete convictions. I feel like you're skipping the former here and you're not barreling all out into the latter either. If you are town you owe it to us to consider whether my points are right or not, not just suss me because it was... too dense? Not astute? I'm not sure where this comes from.

 

2) Red is more what troubles me here though, because it doesn't jive with your meta on me. You are worried about a negative agenda but you see me do this as town constantly. I asked Verbal questions like this when I was like 90% sure he'd been cop viewed to be scum. I threw Laine a lot of lifelines in SW while I was drilling her into the ground. I even joked about how Kiv would hate me for it when we town together in PF scum QT. I want to know the honest thoughts of someone who may soon be a muted confirmed town, and I want to force a potential scum to lie more and maybe slip up--reveal himself further or potentially townspew someone.

 

3) Why does me asking Crusher who he thinks we should target next while I'm considering voting him bother you?

1) Tbh I have sort of glossed over the argument because while I read it my eyes started to glaze. Call it laziness on my part if you'd like, but it is what it is. Generally speaking I think Calder handled it much better and without reading anything specifically I think the way you went about making these lengthy posts characterizing the argument as scummy come across as overdone. It seemed to me you were trying very hard to paint Calder into a scummy corner as if it were the sole conclusion without acknowledging that it could've been a difference in opinion or maybe your initial reaction to the whole thing was actually bad, which I stated a while back when I called it lame.

 

2) I don't really recall any of this stuff off the top of my head, so I think your expectation about what I should know about you is a bit unrealistic. From memory, the best townie game I have on you is Belicheat and I don't particularly remember you doing anything like that as lynches were forming.

 

3) It's more about the implication of what could be TMI. You said at first you don't think Crusher looks that scummy, then when you started to consider voting him you begin to question him as if he were a townie and you knew as much. That is an issue for me and I don't think it's a hard conclusion to come to so I don't really understand your hang up.

 

2 and most of 3 I addressed above. "Laine in SW" was a typo btw, I meant Laine in Belichick. I'm not 100% on Crusher as scum, but I think he's a good option. I questioned him a bit and his responses don't thrill me. I think the lack of interest due to there being no doc or GF line is hard to swallow.

 

I think it's generally bad for anyone to read my question as "Hey Crusher, give me an excuse to mislynch someone else after you flip town." It kind of reminds me of what I called (my team mate) Hallia out for in US--preemptively sussing someone for what they might do in the future instead of sussing them when they do it.

 

1) "Tbh I have sort of glossed over the argument because while I read it my eyes started to glaze. Call it laziness on my part if you'd like, but it is what it is." ~~This is what I asked you to do and what I thought you said you would be doing. If you don't want to, that's fine, but then you shouldn't be drawing conclusions from it. There are players I don't expect to dig in much (Zander, Dice). I have a harder time accepting a tl;dr vote from you.

 

"Generally speaking I think Calder handled it much better and without reading anything specifically I think the way you went about making these lengthy posts characterizing the argument as scummy come across as overdone. It seemed to me you were trying very hard to paint Calder into a scummy corner as if it were the sole conclusion without acknowledging that it could've been a difference in opinion or maybe your initial reaction to the whole thing was actually bad, which I stated a while back when I called it lame."

 

~~I just ISO'd myself and most of my posts were three lines or less. There are a handful of longer ones. I pretty openly humor the possibility that he is town for a while and become more increasingly willing to characterize it as intentional spin/misrepresentation as he continues to do it. You're welcome to dislike my initial reaction. You are not welcome to gloss over my posts and simultaneously summarize their contents.

[Clovdyx]

Right now, gun to my head, I'm going Laine/Nolder/Crusher scumteam. 

[Clovdyx]

Hi Hallia =)

 

Up through 29

 

I'm whoever the hell this is.. Sarine Tarasind.  Read through and if we get close enough to deadline Im a good lynch for today.  Yes Im town but I think my lynch would shine a light on a lot of people. Nyn reacted to a number two vote on her by basically giving up. I mean hell she was ready to give up after one vote from Kivam.  At JN that would bring attention yet here people defended her.  Mybe it's chivalry? She is a very sweet Yummy Bunny after all. 

 

Kivam made a silly list in the begininning of the game saying my meta was making early game jokes and Crusher could be town or scum but I will wait.   He waited for my very first vote of the game.  Yeah nothing weird there.  So if we get close to deadline lynch me and you should be able to use the information to find scum.  Yes I love the town that much.  Each and every one of you. 

This seems like an awfully quick claim.  Also, up til this point, I don't see how your flip would shine a light on really anyone bar Nyn.

 

My thoughts and reds as follows.

 

Right now feeling good about AJ and Clov. I'm leaving tinfoil for later, if the three of us are still alive later in the game. Hopefully scum solves that for me or I'm too dead to care. . But for now, they're green. Welcome to the club, boys    I kinda wanna put Calder in here too. He did have good content and I've liked a lot of his posts. But I'm also taking into account the meta Clov spoke of..... and that he sort of gotten a little quiet.... so I'd like to see what more he has to say, beyond his thoughts about Shad. So.... tentative green, but subject to change if his involvement decreases. 

 

Null to town. Light green. Kivam falls into this pile. Not ready to put him in the greens yet cause he pissed me off and I keep grudges     But I've been wrecking my brain about it and I think his actions are coming from a townie mindset. I think what I need to seal him as a green is Crusher's flip. Two more that are going into this pile are Zander and Hallia. Mostly gut. I don't have as much experience with Zander so I could be wrong. But for now I feel okay about him. With Halli.... I just sort of know. It's silly, but the way she told me to just have fun and not let anyone bug me makes me feel better about her. She's engaging me like she usually does. And her perceiving the Shad/Calder thing as V/V isn't that uncharacteristic of her imo (I recall someone said it might be TMI,,, I just think she has a different outlook on things sometimes). I don't agree with her.... but we often disagree, to be fair. I still want to see more from her, like always. But I feel somewhat more comfortable with her atm.

 

 

Null are basically Thane and dice. I'm not sure yet. Once they accumulate more content I'll reassess. Nothing they've said so far wowed me one way or the other.

 

 

Null to scum: Laine and Nolder. Like I said, Laine has had a bad entry to the game. And then wasn't really around due to RL. Looking forward to see what she has to say when she catches up. If it wasn't for her earlier stuff, she'd be null right now... but that pushes her over to slightly scummy.  Nolder feels a little off to me. He was really slow getting into the game (though that can be said of quite a few players). Really not sure of his defense of Crusher. lunno. We're talking right now, so we'll see.

 

Scum: Shad and Crusher. For reasons already stated. tldr, Crusher for pouncing.... reeked of scum piggyback riding (and almost caused an earthquake) and OMGUS charge on Kiv over a made up reason. Shad's reactions have improved but I just can't shake off his initial play. From what I've seen of him in games before.... his behavior has been kinda uncharacteristic. I don't have much experience with him... maybe a couple of games.... but from what I know, he's a lot more together and makes reasonable sense. Kinda missing that here.... felt kinda all over the place. Doing a little better now... just not sure if it's enough at this point.

I like where your reads come from.  I might disagree on a couple of them, but it's not bad.

 

Which ones do you disagree with?

[Clovdyx]

Thread has some Clov in it now.

[alannalynn]

Going to post a somewhat reads list based on what I remember and excluding sections I haven't read (10-26?)

Dice- peek
Zander
Nyn
Clovvy

Shad
Andrej
Kiv

 

Thane
Hally
Nolder
Calder
Crusher

Can't say I'm a fan of my list. Had trouble sorting the middle three, probably easier just to say they're not sorted. Feeling pretty good about Andrej, Kivam isn't bothering me as much as usual (I'm less wary), but that may just be because Calder feels like Kiv a little bit and that's splitting my focus. Shad is more of a gut read. I don't really like how he's been on thread but my gut says he's town, so the conflict puts him in the middle.

The bottom people are there purely by POE and are in no particular order. Going to read what I can to make a better decision on my POE.

 

So.. basically only the top is sorted.
 

[Andrej]

Hi Clov.

 

I'll need to read your posts more closely when I'm not on my phone, but two things

 

I agree with your Kivam "sliminess" point. Not to bash the dude but I think he's kind of obvious scum and I don't get the vibe here. It's sort of incredible how much that statement resonates with me.

 

Secondly, I wasn't criticizing Shad for looking for the potential wolf on his wagon. I agree it's not a terrible method IF you are town, but eventually your game has to evolve beyond OMGUS. My point was that not everyone, or anyone, has to be if he's legit a villager.

[Hallia]

@Clov - I would say Yourself, Nolder, Dice, Shad, and Crusher.

 

I would move Clov down for where I am currently.  Still catching up though.

 

I would move Nold up to light green.  Dice down to Darkest Orange.

 

Shad up to light green, and Crusher to gray.

[Shad_]

 

 

In spoiler because mehh lots of quotes, don't wanna crowd things up.

Read up to the top of pg10 for now, so this is what I have so far.

Few questions within (Shad, Calder, Clov, Andrej)

 

 

 

 

Here. As I said, limited me until Thursday. Possibly no me until Thursday. I will do my best. I've now been awake for like 35 hours straight and won't be sleeping for another 8-9.

Alanna tired y'all

#helpme

Alanna's playing to her scum meta here.

 

 

 

Rage will be worth it.

 

 

? Unfortunately though, the last two(?) games I've been scum in, I was horribly behind all of d1. I think I'm getting into terrible habits in general though

 

"I hope she's not keeping quiet because she's afraid I'm high-tuned to her scum game."

:rolleyes:

 

 

[v]Calder[/v]

Scum.

 

Too easy probably, but it crossed my mind.

 

This post really pinged me when I read it and the followup is "meh"....

Oh hey this isn't actually your first mafia game.

^

 

Calder's post #45 doesn't make sense to me. I don't think that post was meant as a soft defense. If we're going by Shad thinking this was your first game, I can see where it crosses a player's mind that newbies roll scum (are we looking at the same OP?) But at the same time, I'm not sure I believe that, due to your comfortability in the sign up thread or your OP. Shad is more observant than this unless he didn't really read any of it and took comfortability as a matter of course. Shad's first game was very ~odd in that he seemed more experienced that he should have been and many assumed mafia (coaching).

 

That being said, not sure I'm feeling the "half-hearted defense" angle that Calder takes. But this post is believable, as well as Shad's followup on post 54 (it lines up with my train of thought above about him not reading- how much merit is there to this?). His dodging posts don't do him any favors though, but I'm not sure that's within his mafia meta.

 

 

Lol. Damn phone. Response went into the quote section. So repeated below (shortened):

My issue is that it has the feel of a post that doesnt need to be made. It is game related, but says nothing and means little. So why post it if ur town?

Its the scum "hey guys im active post."

 

Interesting.  Would you expect scum to post read-related fluff right off the bat?

 

Feels slightly defensive, but I can see Shad saying this as town to get a read on Calder, especially now knowing he's experienced.

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got Calder as reasonable town right now.  I don't hate the reasoning for his initial push against Shad at all, and his response to Shad's question wasn't wrong IMO.

 

Gutread on Shad was just barely above rand for mafia after Calder's point, and #50 sounded like he was trying too hard to appear not concerned, but #54 is plausible enough to keep him null at this point.

Clov, first sentence worries me, second confuses me, and last bit had me nodding my head along.

 

 

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got Calder as reasonable town right now.  I don't hate the reasoning for his initial push against Shad at all, and his response to Shad's question wasn't wrong IMO.

 

Gutread on Shad was just barely above rand for mafia after Calder's point, and #50 sounded like he was trying too hard to appear not concerned, but #54 is plausible enough to keep him null at this point.

Not bad.

 

Tbh I was sort of intrigued by Shad's initial response to my vote because I didn't actually have a reason for it. His explanation in misunderstanding that Calder isn't new was plausible at the least.

 

Calder's push back was alright. I like that he noted Shad's +1 although I hadn't specified anything but he seems experienced enough to be able to play the POV game. His response to my vote was null but there was nothing really to respond to. I just wanted to see how he'd react early on since he's new to me.

 

 

Townie post

 

 

 

 

 

 

I literally cannot wait to watch these two interact.

 

YESSSSS

 

Hah.

 

You made 2 nonchalant posts (46 and 50), which i have been criticizing. So your post again is worthless.

 

Also you have only asked one significant question and i answered that you were leading and it was a WIFOM question with no answer.

Question: Can you see a villager being nonchalant about pressure in an attempt to diffuse pressure?

 

Andrej being helpful townie and preaching. Fos

I take this back reading in context. Andrej looking good ITT

 

The fact he's being helpful means ~nothing towards his alignment.  AJ is a very good player so I don't think he's incapable of making that post as mafia at all.  I think Mafia!AJ would probably WANT a bunch of early fakepeeks, since they (theoretically) would have a lower likeliness of being accurate and that helps narrow the NK poe, but I don't think he's going to come in and recommend it - especially when a handful of us recently played with him in the same setup when he waited to post a peek for accuracy reasons.  He was town, and I'm positive he's smart enough to know the sudden change of heart would stand out.

 

That being said, I don't see how it would ever warrant a FoS.  I'm giving him 0 towncred for trying to be helpful, but I don't see a reasonable argument why anybody would suspect him for being mafia for it.

Anyways... I said this post was odd because it just popped out of nowhere. My Fos was not serious, my subsequent post towards Clov about the seriousness of my post was also not serious. So, I found this post of his to be out of place because it doesn't match up with the attitude that I was presenting ITT at that point, which was something similar to exhausted playful indifference?

 

Kiv is right in #127

I only just understood Clov's post #128... I literally asked for him to decide it for me then called him out for explaining. OMG wow I'm sorry dear LOL My point above still mostly(?) stands though, maybe except for the first line

 

I also concede my points on Andrej that I made about his posts (p7)

 

#143 Shad, do you think Calder being sure you are mafia and not allowing for a town alternative is motivated by town or mafia thinking? 

 

#151 interesting from Zander: this would destroy the credibility that Shad just missed the Calder-talk

 

#157 from Shad... I think I would like this post better if you straight up answered the accusation instead of brushing it off again. You're a little sloppy this game Also, no more quote pyramids. They suck.

 

 

 

So far I like Zander, Clov, Andrej for the most part. Wary of Calder. Iffy on Shad. What I'm getting caught up with irt Shad is how he was in Pulp Fiction. It was a gut feel that he was mafia, but on the thread itself he was pretty clean. So here and now, I'm not getting that same gut feel, but it appears he's getting tripped up in the thread. Maybe things will clear up a little bit better when I read some more though?

 

I also get this weird feeling that all that's been talked about d1 is Shad. If he turns out to be our lynch and flips town, I'm going to be a little bothered that it was so easy for mafia to sit back in this exchange and let it happen. Basically, I want to see some pressure happen in other areas too :)

 

 

TMI?

 

How so, Shad?

 

A passing thought. Mafia 'sitting back and letting the exchange happen' suggests mafia weren't part of the exchange.

 

IIRC you're town reading Calder so it really doesn't bug me on re-read.  I do think if you flip scum this is more likely a townspew slip than an intentional seed.

[Andrej]

Shad I will respond to you again when I get home, just realized one of those big quotes that all melded together on my phone screen was yours.

[Shad_]

 

Alanna - I saw your question when i was skimming this morning right before my commute, but forgot to respond bc it was built into a huge catchup wall.

 

Do i think a villager would attempt a nonchalant or brush-off move to avoid pressure. Sure. Happens all the time. But, i think it raises eyebrows bc of its effectiveness. He did two in a row so i pushed him and was never satisfied with how long it took to get him to engage me or in his confusing responses.

 

I pushed bc of his response, but it def is not enough to be alignment indicative which is what i think your getting at. My dislike of Shad is the culmination of that action, his circular evasiveness, and the fact that its blatantly clear he never did anything but be defensive.

I like this response

 

Shad don't judge me for saying this, but I feel like you were a little ooc earlier when you were being evasive. I think this is my problem with trying to decide if you are coming off scummy or not. I'm more likely to conclude that the brushing off of attacks is more of a town move from Shad. I believe you would think more about how you appear to town as mafia.

 

I can tell you that the only time I remember intentionally posting OOC in this game was my "This post is BS you're a liar" at Nyn. Make what you will of that.

[Andrej]

Hallia explain your Dice read please.

[alannalynn]

 

 

 

 

In spoiler because mehh lots of quotes, don't wanna crowd things up.

Read up to the top of pg10 for now, so this is what I have so far.

Few questions within (Shad, Calder, Clov, Andrej)

 

 

 

 

Here. As I said, limited me until Thursday. Possibly no me until Thursday. I will do my best. I've now been awake for like 35 hours straight and won't be sleeping for another 8-9.

Alanna tired y'all

#helpme

Alanna's playing to her scum meta here.

 

 

 

Rage will be worth it.

 

 

? Unfortunately though, the last two(?) games I've been scum in, I was horribly behind all of d1. I think I'm getting into terrible habits in general though

 

"I hope she's not keeping quiet because she's afraid I'm high-tuned to her scum game."

:rolleyes:

 

 

[v]Calder[/v]

Scum.

 

Too easy probably, but it crossed my mind.

 

This post really pinged me when I read it and the followup is "meh"....

Oh hey this isn't actually your first mafia game.

^

 

Calder's post #45 doesn't make sense to me. I don't think that post was meant as a soft defense. If we're going by Shad thinking this was your first game, I can see where it crosses a player's mind that newbies roll scum (are we looking at the same OP?) But at the same time, I'm not sure I believe that, due to your comfortability in the sign up thread or your OP. Shad is more observant than this unless he didn't really read any of it and took comfortability as a matter of course. Shad's first game was very ~odd in that he seemed more experienced that he should have been and many assumed mafia (coaching).

 

That being said, not sure I'm feeling the "half-hearted defense" angle that Calder takes. But this post is believable, as well as Shad's followup on post 54 (it lines up with my train of thought above about him not reading- how much merit is there to this?). His dodging posts don't do him any favors though, but I'm not sure that's within his mafia meta.

 

 

Lol. Damn phone. Response went into the quote section. So repeated below (shortened):

My issue is that it has the feel of a post that doesnt need to be made. It is game related, but says nothing and means little. So why post it if ur town?

Its the scum "hey guys im active post."

 

Interesting.  Would you expect scum to post read-related fluff right off the bat?

 

Feels slightly defensive, but I can see Shad saying this as town to get a read on Calder, especially now knowing he's experienced.

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got Calder as reasonable town right now.  I don't hate the reasoning for his initial push against Shad at all, and his response to Shad's question wasn't wrong IMO.

 

Gutread on Shad was just barely above rand for mafia after Calder's point, and #50 sounded like he was trying too hard to appear not concerned, but #54 is plausible enough to keep him null at this point.

Clov, first sentence worries me, second confuses me, and last bit had me nodding my head along.

 

 

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got Calder as reasonable town right now.  I don't hate the reasoning for his initial push against Shad at all, and his response to Shad's question wasn't wrong IMO.

 

Gutread on Shad was just barely above rand for mafia after Calder's point, and #50 sounded like he was trying too hard to appear not concerned, but #54 is plausible enough to keep him null at this point.

Not bad.

 

Tbh I was sort of intrigued by Shad's initial response to my vote because I didn't actually have a reason for it. His explanation in misunderstanding that Calder isn't new was plausible at the least.

 

Calder's push back was alright. I like that he noted Shad's +1 although I hadn't specified anything but he seems experienced enough to be able to play the POV game. His response to my vote was null but there was nothing really to respond to. I just wanted to see how he'd react early on since he's new to me.

 

 

Townie post

 

 

 

 

 

 

I literally cannot wait to watch these two interact.

 

YESSSSS

 

Hah.

 

You made 2 nonchalant posts (46 and 50), which i have been criticizing. So your post again is worthless.

 

Also you have only asked one significant question and i answered that you were leading and it was a WIFOM question with no answer.

Question: Can you see a villager being nonchalant about pressure in an attempt to diffuse pressure?

 

Andrej being helpful townie and preaching. Fos

I take this back reading in context. Andrej looking good ITT

 

The fact he's being helpful means ~nothing towards his alignment.  AJ is a very good player so I don't think he's incapable of making that post as mafia at all.  I think Mafia!AJ would probably WANT a bunch of early fakepeeks, since they (theoretically) would have a lower likeliness of being accurate and that helps narrow the NK poe, but I don't think he's going to come in and recommend it - especially when a handful of us recently played with him in the same setup when he waited to post a peek for accuracy reasons.  He was town, and I'm positive he's smart enough to know the sudden change of heart would stand out.

 

That being said, I don't see how it would ever warrant a FoS.  I'm giving him 0 towncred for trying to be helpful, but I don't see a reasonable argument why anybody would suspect him for being mafia for it.

Anyways... I said this post was odd because it just popped out of nowhere. My Fos was not serious, my subsequent post towards Clov about the seriousness of my post was also not serious. So, I found this post of his to be out of place because it doesn't match up with the attitude that I was presenting ITT at that point, which was something similar to exhausted playful indifference?

 

Kiv is right in #127

I only just understood Clov's post #128... I literally asked for him to decide it for me then called him out for explaining. OMG wow I'm sorry dear LOL My point above still mostly(?) stands though, maybe except for the first line

 

I also concede my points on Andrej that I made about his posts (p7)

 

#143 Shad, do you think Calder being sure you are mafia and not allowing for a town alternative is motivated by town or mafia thinking? 

 

#151 interesting from Zander: this would destroy the credibility that Shad just missed the Calder-talk

 

#157 from Shad... I think I would like this post better if you straight up answered the accusation instead of brushing it off again. You're a little sloppy this game Also, no more quote pyramids. They suck.

 

 

 

So far I like Zander, Clov, Andrej for the most part. Wary of Calder. Iffy on Shad. What I'm getting caught up with irt Shad is how he was in Pulp Fiction. It was a gut feel that he was mafia, but on the thread itself he was pretty clean. So here and now, I'm not getting that same gut feel, but it appears he's getting tripped up in the thread. Maybe things will clear up a little bit better when I read some more though?

 

I also get this weird feeling that all that's been talked about d1 is Shad. If he turns out to be our lynch and flips town, I'm going to be a little bothered that it was so easy for mafia to sit back in this exchange and let it happen. Basically, I want to see some pressure happen in other areas too :)

 

 

TMI?

 

How so, Shad?

A passing thought. Mafia 'sitting back and letting the exchange happen' suggests mafia weren't part of the exchange.

 

IIRC you're town reading Calder so it really doesn't bug me on re-read.  I do think if you flip scum this is more likely a townspew slip than an intentional seed.

There's more than one mafia. My original thought was that the conversation going on was allowing a lot of people to sit back and relax (myself included) while things sorted out. Easy place for scum to hide and town to be lazy.

 

Oddly enough, my town leans pushed Calder down my list.

[Clovdyx]

@Clov - I would say Yourself, Nolder, Dice, Shad, and Crusher.

 

I would move Clov down for where I am currently.  Still catching up though.

 

I would move Nold up to light green.  Dice down to Darkest Orange.

 

Shad up to light green, and Crusher to gray.

 

Not really surprised to see you name me.  

 

What have you seen from Nolder that makes you that comfortable with him? 

 

What has Dice done to get that low on your list?  If I'm understanding your order correctly, he's one of your bottom two or three?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

 

 

In spoiler because mehh lots of quotes, don't wanna crowd things up.

Read up to the top of pg10 for now, so this is what I have so far.

Few questions within (Shad, Calder, Clov, Andrej)

 

 

 

 

Here. As I said, limited me until Thursday. Possibly no me until Thursday. I will do my best. I've now been awake for like 35 hours straight and won't be sleeping for another 8-9.

Alanna tired y'all

#helpme

Alanna's playing to her scum meta here.

 

 

 

Rage will be worth it.

 

 

? Unfortunately though, the last two(?) games I've been scum in, I was horribly behind all of d1. I think I'm getting into terrible habits in general though

 

"I hope she's not keeping quiet because she's afraid I'm high-tuned to her scum game."

:rolleyes:

 

 

[v]Calder[/v]

Scum.

 

Too easy probably, but it crossed my mind.

 

This post really pinged me when I read it and the followup is "meh"....

Oh hey this isn't actually your first mafia game.

^

 

Calder's post #45 doesn't make sense to me. I don't think that post was meant as a soft defense. If we're going by Shad thinking this was your first game, I can see where it crosses a player's mind that newbies roll scum (are we looking at the same OP?) But at the same time, I'm not sure I believe that, due to your comfortability in the sign up thread or your OP. Shad is more observant than this unless he didn't really read any of it and took comfortability as a matter of course. Shad's first game was very ~odd in that he seemed more experienced that he should have been and many assumed mafia (coaching).

 

That being said, not sure I'm feeling the "half-hearted defense" angle that Calder takes. But this post is believable, as well as Shad's followup on post 54 (it lines up with my train of thought above about him not reading- how much merit is there to this?). His dodging posts don't do him any favors though, but I'm not sure that's within his mafia meta.

 

 

Lol. Damn phone. Response went into the quote section. So repeated below (shortened):

My issue is that it has the feel of a post that doesnt need to be made. It is game related, but says nothing and means little. So why post it if ur town?

Its the scum "hey guys im active post."

 

Interesting.  Would you expect scum to post read-related fluff right off the bat?

 

Feels slightly defensive, but I can see Shad saying this as town to get a read on Calder, especially now knowing he's experienced.

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got Calder as reasonable town right now.  I don't hate the reasoning for his initial push against Shad at all, and his response to Shad's question wasn't wrong IMO.

 

Gutread on Shad was just barely above rand for mafia after Calder's point, and #50 sounded like he was trying too hard to appear not concerned, but #54 is plausible enough to keep him null at this point.

Clov, first sentence worries me, second confuses me, and last bit had me nodding my head along.

 

 

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got Calder as reasonable town right now.  I don't hate the reasoning for his initial push against Shad at all, and his response to Shad's question wasn't wrong IMO.

 

Gutread on Shad was just barely above rand for mafia after Calder's point, and #50 sounded like he was trying too hard to appear not concerned, but #54 is plausible enough to keep him null at this point.

Not bad.

 

Tbh I was sort of intrigued by Shad's initial response to my vote because I didn't actually have a reason for it. His explanation in misunderstanding that Calder isn't new was plausible at the least.

 

Calder's push back was alright. I like that he noted Shad's +1 although I hadn't specified anything but he seems experienced enough to be able to play the POV game. His response to my vote was null but there was nothing really to respond to. I just wanted to see how he'd react early on since he's new to me.

 

 

Townie post

 

 

 

 

 

 

I literally cannot wait to watch these two interact.

 

YESSSSS

 

Hah.

 

You made 2 nonchalant posts (46 and 50), which i have been criticizing. So your post again is worthless.

 

Also you have only asked one significant question and i answered that you were leading and it was a WIFOM question with no answer.

Question: Can you see a villager being nonchalant about pressure in an attempt to diffuse pressure?

 

Andrej being helpful townie and preaching. Fos

I take this back reading in context. Andrej looking good ITT

 

The fact he's being helpful means ~nothing towards his alignment.  AJ is a very good player so I don't think he's incapable of making that post as mafia at all.  I think Mafia!AJ would probably WANT a bunch of early fakepeeks, since they (theoretically) would have a lower likeliness of being accurate and that helps narrow the NK poe, but I don't think he's going to come in and recommend it - especially when a handful of us recently played with him in the same setup when he waited to post a peek for accuracy reasons.  He was town, and I'm positive he's smart enough to know the sudden change of heart would stand out.

 

That being said, I don't see how it would ever warrant a FoS.  I'm giving him 0 towncred for trying to be helpful, but I don't see a reasonable argument why anybody would suspect him for being mafia for it.

Anyways... I said this post was odd because it just popped out of nowhere. My Fos was not serious, my subsequent post towards Clov about the seriousness of my post was also not serious. So, I found this post of his to be out of place because it doesn't match up with the attitude that I was presenting ITT at that point, which was something similar to exhausted playful indifference?

 

Kiv is right in #127

I only just understood Clov's post #128... I literally asked for him to decide it for me then called him out for explaining. OMG wow I'm sorry dear LOL My point above still mostly(?) stands though, maybe except for the first line

 

I also concede my points on Andrej that I made about his posts (p7)

 

#143 Shad, do you think Calder being sure you are mafia and not allowing for a town alternative is motivated by town or mafia thinking? 

 

#151 interesting from Zander: this would destroy the credibility that Shad just missed the Calder-talk

 

#157 from Shad... I think I would like this post better if you straight up answered the accusation instead of brushing it off again. You're a little sloppy this game Also, no more quote pyramids. They suck.

 

 

 

So far I like Zander, Clov, Andrej for the most part. Wary of Calder. Iffy on Shad. What I'm getting caught up with irt Shad is how he was in Pulp Fiction. It was a gut feel that he was mafia, but on the thread itself he was pretty clean. So here and now, I'm not getting that same gut feel, but it appears he's getting tripped up in the thread. Maybe things will clear up a little bit better when I read some more though?

 

I also get this weird feeling that all that's been talked about d1 is Shad. If he turns out to be our lynch and flips town, I'm going to be a little bothered that it was so easy for mafia to sit back in this exchange and let it happen. Basically, I want to see some pressure happen in other areas too :)

 

 

TMI?

 

How so, Shad?

A passing thought. Mafia 'sitting back and letting the exchange happen' suggests mafia weren't part of the exchange.

 

IIRC you're town reading Calder so it really doesn't bug me on re-read.  I do think if you flip scum this is more likely a townspew slip than an intentional seed.

There's more than one mafia. My original thought was that the conversation going on was allowing a lot of people to sit back and relax (myself included) while things sorted out. Easy place for scum to hide and town to be lazy.

 

Oddly enough, my town leans pushed Calder down my list.

 

 

I don't understand this.  You don't seem to have enough town reads to be POEing Calder.  Walk me through this one?

[alannalynn]

 

 

 

Alanna - I saw your question when i was skimming this morning right before my commute, but forgot to respond bc it was built into a huge catchup wall.

 

Do i think a villager would attempt a nonchalant or brush-off move to avoid pressure. Sure. Happens all the time. But, i think it raises eyebrows bc of its effectiveness. He did two in a row so i pushed him and was never satisfied with how long it took to get him to engage me or in his confusing responses.

 

I pushed bc of his response, but it def is not enough to be alignment indicative which is what i think your getting at. My dislike of Shad is the culmination of that action, his circular evasiveness, and the fact that its blatantly clear he never did anything but be defensive.

I like this response

 

Shad don't judge me for saying this, but I feel like you were a little ooc earlier when you were being evasive. I think this is my problem with trying to decide if you are coming off scummy or not. I'm more likely to conclude that the brushing off of attacks is more of a town move from Shad. I believe you would think more about how you appear to town as mafia.

 

I can tell you that the only time I remember intentionally posting OOC in this game was my "This post is BS you're a liar" at Nyn. Make what you will of that.

Didn't really read that part, assuming it's between pages 10-26?  So why the joking around early (pg 2-3) in the game with the Calder accusations? That in particular was what I felt was occ of you to do, especially if you're mafia, less so if town.

[Clovdyx]

Right now, gun to my head, I'm going Laine/Nolder/Crusher scumteam. 

 

LOL I'm bad at this game.  

[alannalynn]

I don't understand this.  You don't seem to have enough town reads to be POEing Calder.  Walk me through this one?

It's more of a confidence thing. And Calder is an unknown for me. Some of his posts (like in response to me earlier with him explaining himself) come off really good, but then other pushes feel a bit forced and left me . Not saying I'm ready to lynch him right now, but that that pushed him down the list because I feel I can read others better and give them more town credit because of that.

 

[alannalynn]

 

Right now, gun to my head, I'm going Laine/Nolder/Crusher scumteam. 

 

LOL I'm bad at this game.  

You okay? lol

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

Alanna - I saw your question when i was skimming this morning right before my commute, but forgot to respond bc it was built into a huge catchup wall.

 

Do i think a villager would attempt a nonchalant or brush-off move to avoid pressure. Sure. Happens all the time. But, i think it raises eyebrows bc of its effectiveness. He did two in a row so i pushed him and was never satisfied with how long it took to get him to engage me or in his confusing responses.

 

I pushed bc of his response, but it def is not enough to be alignment indicative which is what i think your getting at. My dislike of Shad is the culmination of that action, his circular evasiveness, and the fact that its blatantly clear he never did anything but be defensive.

I like this response

 

Shad don't judge me for saying this, but I feel like you were a little ooc earlier when you were being evasive. I think this is my problem with trying to decide if you are coming off scummy or not. I'm more likely to conclude that the brushing off of attacks is more of a town move from Shad. I believe you would think more about how you appear to town as mafia.

 

 

I can tell you that the only time I remember intentionally posting OOC in this game was my "This post is BS you're a liar" at Nyn. Make what you will of that.

 

Didn't really read that part, assuming it's between pages 10-26?  So why the joking around early (pg 2-3) in the game with the Calder accusations? That in particular was what I felt was occ of you to do, especially if you're mafia, less so if town.

 

 

 

 

Oh hey this isn't actually your first mafia game.

Nonchalant response attempt noted, but not believed.

 

 

 

I thought this post was exceptionally stupid, basically.  I suppose it did help kick the game off.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Right now, gun to my head, I'm going Laine/Nolder/Crusher scumteam. 

 

LOL I'm bad at this game.  

You okay? lol

 

 

Of course.  Just realized something I overlooked the first time that makes that solve pretty much guaranteed to be wrong. 

 

 

Anybody that figures it out gets a free townie brownie.

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm trying to catch up another 10 pages or so. At work, so might take a while.

 

Also, hi all

[Shad_]

Hi Thane.