Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

[Calder]

 

#143 Shad, do you think Calder being sure you are mafia and not allowing for a town alternative is motivated by town or mafia thinking?

 

Mafia thinking.  At least, it's the opposite of how I town and one of the big things I look for in general.  Town beat someone down to improve their read.  Scum do it to convince the village that their target is worth lynching.  When I feel that a push does not lend itself to null/town conclusions no matter what the target responds with, that's a huge red flag for me.

If you are town then this game has shown that your top suspect is without fail the person currently questioning you. If i going about the game the opposite of you is mafia like, then watch out everyone there are 12 scum and Shad is the only townie in this game.

[Zander?]

 

Kiv, what about Clov's placement? I don't think you explained that.

 

You're right, I didn't.  He was my peek today, so if I die later and flip seer, you should trust that claim.  On the other hand, I may be faking my peek, and scum may take the fact that my peek is in my scum reads as a reason to think I'm not actually the seer.  If so, I avoid a NK. (In fact, I can tell you now that if I am the seer and until I hardclaim, I will be willing to go so far as to vote for the lynch of a claimed peek in order to avoid being identified; keeping me alive is worth more than 1 dead vanilla townie)  On the other hand, now that I've made that point, maybe they think I'm the seer hoping to avoid a NK, and kill me ... which if I'm a vanilla townie is +ev for town.  But maybe they see this and think I'm trying to draw a kill, mark me down as vanilla town, and leave me alive.

 

In other words ...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6TQ7ljcsjk

 

 

 

.....Lawyers...... *le sigh*

 

lololololol

[Kivam]

 

 

Null to town. Light green. Kivam falls into this pile. Not ready to put him in the greens yet cause he pissed me off and I keep grudges     But I've been wrecking my brain about it and I think his actions are coming from a townie mindset. I think what I need to seal him as a green is Crusher's flip.

 

You're making the same mistake Nolder is.  You know me well enough to know that I'd have absolutely no problem at all aggressively leading a lynch on a teammate, including on D1.  I'm actually a townie this game, so the mistake is to the town's benefit (correctly clearing me for a bad reason is as +ev this game as correctly clearing me for the right reason, the same way lynching me for a bad reason when I'm scum is as +ev for town as lynching me for a good reason), but why would you approach me this way?

 

 

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying you are incapable of pushing a teammate. You are more than capable of doing that. So am I. 

 

Nolder assumes you're scum for a pretty thin reason. And by extension he thinks Crusher is town. Which, like you said, is a mistake because it could just be distancing.

 

As for me, I'm not saying I'm leaning town on you because I'm scum reading Crusher, and I wouldn't expect you to push him as his teammate. My reason is that I think you had a very real opening to manipulate the situation into pushing me further. Instead you sprung a trap on Crusher, who imo was pretty terrib when he rushed in. That's more indicative of you actually doing this for reaction and actively scumhunting. vs. what Nolder thinks. And yes, seeing Crusher's flip would make me more comfortable with you... but it's not the reason for the lean, if that makes sense.

It does, thanks.  I could still lynch you another day, but not today, I think

[Nynaeve]

It does, thanks.  I could still lynch you another day, but not today, I think

 

It's a date

[Shad_]

 

 

#143 Shad, do you think Calder being sure you are mafia and not allowing for a town alternative is motivated by town or mafia thinking?

Mafia thinking.  At least, it's the opposite of how I town and one of the big things I look for in general.  Town beat someone down to improve their read.  Scum do it to convince the village that their target is worth lynching.  When I feel that a push does not lend itself to null/town conclusions no matter what the target responds with, that's a huge red flag for me.

If you are town then this game has shown that your top suspect is without fail the person currently questioning you. If i going about the game the opposite of you is mafia like, then watch out everyone there are 12 scum and Shad is the only townie in this game.

 

 

I generally like to throw myself out there D1 and see who bites.  I do it as town.  I do it as scum.  When you know your own alignment it's a lot easier to gauge the authenticity/accuracy of your critics.

 

Who have I really taken issue with irt their posts at me besides you and Zander?  You're doing a great job of continuing to push the line that everyone is scum reading me though, despite being called out for it.  It's a consistency with you--continue to rewrite what people say and do long enough and they slowly begin to believe you rather than look back and see for themselves.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

Hello.

 

Im Zander and I am once again in the favor of the Town Gods,

 

I am Town!!!

 

Time to hunt some wolves.

 

Hi Zander!  Laine's going to be kind of inactive.  Who will you be wrecking towns with?

 

 

im not fully caught up but this is just gross Shad.  I know you may say its a joke from Belicheat or a reaction gauge or something but it seems to be like your just trying  to throw dirt and see where it sticks..

 

FWIW- you picked the wrong target this game Shad, Im finally Town again and Im not getting mislynched.

 

GLGL

 

 

I'mma go ahead and call BS on this one.  Your catch-up on me overall has been very.... Zander--I find it disorganized/don't really understand why the particular posts you quote bother you from your perspective, but that can be null.  This post is a problem.  The main thing that kept me from laying into you hard in Belichick before you NK'd me was the sort of rabid defensiveness you displayed any time I hinted that I might be sussing you, and I was kicking myself for it before DT ever got spoiled.

 

This post takes overreaction to its limit.  It's hyper-defensive in response to a post that town!Zander lolololols at like 90% of the time and it just happens to conveniently portray me as unfairly targeting you in the process.  I don't believe that you would interpret it as anything but a joke unless you had something to hide.

 

And no, it was not a reaction gauge, but I am gauging your reaction now and it smells like .

 

 

so im over reacting and hyper defensive but you're not for suss'ing me for suss'ing you like you started suss'ing Nyn and Calder for suss'ing you.

 

 

i see you miss the so ill throw some in for ya..

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

 

 

Nyn is arguably my top town right now.  You just ISO'd me like ten minutes ago so you should know that.  And I'm not sure what about calling you a wolf suggests that I am not suspicious of you.  >_>

 

 

im currently reading the thread at page 17 and trying to interact with players. glgl me. i look for the where you posted Nyn as your top town read post.

 

 

and please re read.  i said the exact opposite of that...

[Zander?]

Think I may have caught something on reread

 

 

Not sure why think any of that is definitionally not opportunistic

 

Because I feel that I've been legitimately scumhunting and making good observations.....and all you gotta say is.... oh that looks opportunistic. There's nothing about Shad's content so far that makes him look even slightly town imo. So I don't understand how you'd get that impression or why you think this is a v/v situation. But, w/e. 

 

 

[unvote] [v]Nyn[/v]

 

Nyn, the red is verbiage that it doesn't make any sense for any townie to use under any circumstances, ever. A townie doesn't "feel that" they've been legitimately scumhunting, they simply do it ... and say so straight out.

 

Reading back and seeing this again, this looks like the "wrongly fingered scum's" lament ["how dare townie scumread me for doing ABC; yeah, I am scum, but that's exactly what I'd do as town, so they're wrong!"]. 

 

for what its worth i feel like Kiv is trying to drive the game engage and get reactions.  Kiv is a town read.

[Zander?]

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

First of all, shame on you all for not even acknowledging a WWSD lynch on Nolder (in case anyone is interested, that stands for "What would Swag do?", which is a reference nobody but IR is going to get).  Second, this vote is not a joke.  I won't pretend to be particularly good at understanding Hallia - she's basically the exact opposite person I am - but what I do know is that she's not afraid to throw opinions out there with a reasonable amount of conviction to them.  And she'll back them up.

 

 

Morrrrrning

 

Catching up I like the whole Calder, Shad, Clov interaction. I dunno how to feel about Laine.

 

Dislike Dice so far. Null on Zander.

 

 

I don't have any real issue with the comment about Dice.  I haven't noticed him enough to make an opinion of him, myself, so that's whatever to me.  The null on Zander and Laine are kind of strange to me.  There are half a dozen players she didn't mention, why did she mention those two, specifically?  

 

But what I hate about this post is her stance on Calder/Shad/me.  "I like it" means literally nothing towards game solving.  The most obvious answer would be that she thinks we all sound like likely town in it, but I don't see HOW a townie reaches that conclusion.  Don't get me wrong - both Shad and Calder COULD both be town, but I have a hard time thinking anybody without TMI looks at that objectively and concludes them being on the same side is the likeliest scenario.

 

interesting interpretation.  im not the best Hallia reader so ill reserve judgement atp.

[Zander?]

I'm Ared Mosinel, VT. Go ahead and lynch.

 

Noted;

 

 

 

 

I FEEL THAT I'VE BEEN SCUMHUNTING. THIS CAN BE SAID BY A TOWNIE BECAUSE I'M A TOWNIE AND I'M SAYING IT. YOUR THICK RULES OF WHAT A TOWNIE WOULD OR WOULDN'T SAY ARE PURE BS.

 

Go ahead and vote me. You're full of it.

Angrily doubling down rather than explaining is not a townie play.  Also fits in your scum view of your own meta as expressed in usual suspects ("can't back off or they'll call it out of character") so I'm not marking it down as TWTBAW, either

 

 

I don't care what you think. Get enough people to vote me, and I'll hammer myself.

 

 

i feel like Nyn is more then likely frustrated town-y atp but i HATE this post....Sorry Nyn

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello.

 

Im Zander and I am once again in the favor of the Town Gods,

 

I am Town!!!

 

Time to hunt some wolves.

 

Hi Zander!  Laine's going to be kind of inactive.  Who will you be wrecking towns with?

 

 

im not fully caught up but this is just gross Shad.  I know you may say its a joke from Belicheat or a reaction gauge or something but it seems to be like your just trying  to throw dirt and see where it sticks..

 

FWIW- you picked the wrong target this game Shad, Im finally Town again and Im not getting mislynched.

 

GLGL

 

 

I'mma go ahead and call BS on this one.  Your catch-up on me overall has been very.... Zander--I find it disorganized/don't really understand why the particular posts you quote bother you from your perspective, but that can be null.  This post is a problem.  The main thing that kept me from laying into you hard in Belichick before you NK'd me was the sort of rabid defensiveness you displayed any time I hinted that I might be sussing you, and I was kicking myself for it before DT ever got spoiled.

 

This post takes overreaction to its limit.  It's hyper-defensive in response to a post that town!Zander lolololols at like 90% of the time and it just happens to conveniently portray me as unfairly targeting you in the process.  I don't believe that you would interpret it as anything but a joke unless you had something to hide.

 

And no, it was not a reaction gauge, but I am gauging your reaction now and it smells like .

 

 

so im over reacting and hyper defensive but you're not for suss'ing me for suss'ing you like you started suss'ing Nyn and Calder for suss'ing you.

 

 

i see you miss the so ill throw some in for ya..

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

 

 

Nyn is arguably my top town right now.  You just ISO'd me like ten minutes ago so you should know that.  And I'm not sure what about calling you a wolf suggests that I am not suspicious of you.  >_>

 

 

im currently reading the thread at page 17 and trying to interact with players. glgl me. i look for the where you posted Nyn as your top town read post.

 

 

and please re read.  i said the exact opposite of that...

 

 

 

 

Oh, you're saying I am sussing you for sussing me and I did it with Calder and Nyn too, and that's overreacting/defensive.  Well that makes more sense at least, though it's still wrong.  Talking to a player to hash out why they voted you is not sussing them; it's figuring them out with a solid baseline.  Whether you take it as defensiveness or a way of making reads is a matter of how you think and how well you know me.  For you to take it as defensiveness isn't such a bad thing in my mind.  If you want to see legit scum!Shad defending the hell out of himself, go read my D2 assault on Laine in Pulp Fiction.

 

But my problem isn't really with your tunnel on me in catch-up.  It's with the post I quoted above.  Explain to me what goes through town!Zander's head to produce that big of a reaction to a really obvious joke, because I'm not seeing it.

[Calder]

 

 

 

#143 Shad, do you think Calder being sure you are mafia and not allowing for a town alternative is motivated by town or mafia thinking?

 

Mafia thinking.  At least, it's the opposite of how I town and one of the big things I look for in general.  Town beat someone down to improve their read.  Scum do it to convince the village that their target is worth lynching.  When I feel that a push does not lend itself to null/town conclusions no matter what the target responds with, that's a huge red flag for me.

If you are town then this game has shown that your top suspect is without fail the person currently questioning you. If i going about the game the opposite of you is mafia like, then watch out everyone there are 12 scum and Shad is the only townie in this game.

 

I generally like to throw myself out there D1 and see who bites.  I do it as town.  I do it as scum.  When you know your own alignment it's a lot easier to gauge the authenticity/accuracy of your critics.

 

Who have I really taken issue with irt their posts at me besides you and Zander?  You're doing a great job of continuing to push the line that everyone is scum reading me though, despite being called out for it.  It's a consistency with you--continue to rewrite what people say and do long enough and they slowly begin to believe you rather than look back and see for themselves.

Haha. I have had better discussions with brick walls. Pretty confident you were suspicious of nyn while she was questioning you, but her vote isn't on you any longer so it is unsurprising you now love her.

 

[V]unvote[/]. You have zero self awareness.

[Calder]

[v]unvote[/v]

[Nynaeve]

i feel like Nyn is more then likely frustrated town-y atp but i HATE this post....Sorry Nyn

 

It's fine. I was having a bad day, so not one of my finest moments *shrugs*

[Shad_]

 

 

 

 

#143 Shad, do you think Calder being sure you are mafia and not allowing for a town alternative is motivated by town or mafia thinking?

Mafia thinking.  At least, it's the opposite of how I town and one of the big things I look for in general.  Town beat someone down to improve their read.  Scum do it to convince the village that their target is worth lynching.  When I feel that a push does not lend itself to null/town conclusions no matter what the target responds with, that's a huge red flag for me.

If you are town then this game has shown that your top suspect is without fail the person currently questioning you. If i going about the game the opposite of you is mafia like, then watch out everyone there are 12 scum and Shad is the only townie in this game.

 

I generally like to throw myself out there D1 and see who bites.  I do it as town.  I do it as scum.  When you know your own alignment it's a lot easier to gauge the authenticity/accuracy of your critics.

 

Who have I really taken issue with irt their posts at me besides you and Zander?  You're doing a great job of continuing to push the line that everyone is scum reading me though, despite being called out for it.  It's a consistency with you--continue to rewrite what people say and do long enough and they slowly begin to believe you rather than look back and see for themselves.

Haha. I have had better discussions with brick walls. Pretty confident you were suspicious of nyn while she was questioning you, but her vote isn't on you any longer so it is unsurprising you now love her.

 

[V]unvote[/]. You have zero self awareness.

 

 

I'll admit I was frustrated enough to get for real defensive a bit.  I never reached a scum lean on her out of it.  Not sure I understand your unvote.

[alannalynn]

Shad who do you think is scum?

 

I'm not caught up, obviously, but have you been pushing anyone in particular or just defending?

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello.

 

Im Zander and I am once again in the favor of the Town Gods,

 

I am Town!!!

 

Time to hunt some wolves.

 

Hi Zander!  Laine's going to be kind of inactive.  Who will you be wrecking towns with?

 

 

im not fully caught up but this is just gross Shad.  I know you may say its a joke from Belicheat or a reaction gauge or something but it seems to be like your just trying  to throw dirt and see where it sticks..

 

FWIW- you picked the wrong target this game Shad, Im finally Town again and Im not getting mislynched.

 

GLGL

 

 

I'mma go ahead and call BS on this one.  Your catch-up on me overall has been very.... Zander--I find it disorganized/don't really understand why the particular posts you quote bother you from your perspective, but that can be null.  This post is a problem.  The main thing that kept me from laying into you hard in Belichick before you NK'd me was the sort of rabid defensiveness you displayed any time I hinted that I might be sussing you, and I was kicking myself for it before DT ever got spoiled.

 

This post takes overreaction to its limit.  It's hyper-defensive in response to a post that town!Zander lolololols at like 90% of the time and it just happens to conveniently portray me as unfairly targeting you in the process.  I don't believe that you would interpret it as anything but a joke unless you had something to hide.

 

And no, it was not a reaction gauge, but I am gauging your reaction now and it smells like .

 

 

so im over reacting and hyper defensive but you're not for suss'ing me for suss'ing you like you started suss'ing Nyn and Calder for suss'ing you.

 

 

i see you miss the so ill throw some in for ya..

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

 

 

Nyn is arguably my top town right now.  You just ISO'd me like ten minutes ago so you should know that.  And I'm not sure what about calling you a wolf suggests that I am not suspicious of you.  >_>

 

 

im currently reading the thread at page 17 and trying to interact with players. glgl me. i look for the where you posted Nyn as your top town read post.

 

 

and please re read.  i said the exact opposite of that...

 

 

 

 

Oh, you're saying I am sussing you for sussing me and I did it with Calder and Nyn too, and that's overreacting/defensive.  Well that makes more sense at least, though it's still wrong.  Talking to a player to hash out why they voted you is not sussing them; it's figuring them out with a solid baseline.  Whether you take it as defensiveness or a way of making reads is a matter of how you think and how well you know me.  For you to take it as defensiveness isn't such a bad thing in my mind.  If you want to see legit scum!Shad defending the hell out of himself, go read my D2 assault on Laine in Pulp Fiction.

 

But my problem isn't really with your tunnel on me in catch-up.  It's with the post I quoted above.  Explain to me what goes through town!Zander's head to produce that big of a reaction to a really obvious joke, because I'm not seeing it.

 

Nothing every goes through my head its a lot of vast empty real estate.

 

it seems you're choosing to "not see" a lot or what im saying. 

 

It was just something that pinged my gut.  it felt out of place for you imo.

[Calder]

Shad my unvote is bc i have real doubts that you may be a genuinely confusing person.

[Shad_]

Shad who do you think is scum?

 

I'm not caught up, obviously, but have you been pushing anyone in particular or just defending?

 

I've been pushing Calder all game and the only tiny shreds of positive I've seen out of him consist of this post:

 

 

 

 

 

Lol. Damn phone. Response went into the quote section. So repeated below (shortened):

My issue is that it has the feel of a post that doesnt need to be made. It is game related, but says nothing and means little. So why post it if ur town?

Its the scum "hey guys im active post."

Interesting. Would you expect scum to post read-related fluff right off the bat?

 

Little early to break out the wine isnt it?

 

 

 

 

~~Makes me think it was an honest thought because he jumped to it first and only explained later.

 

And the fact that he started to appear as legitimately frustrated as I was by the end of our conversation yesterday.

 

Currently leery of Zander. AJ has pinged me in ways that I haven't really wrapped my head around yet.

[Zander?]

 

Shad goes quiet in the meanwhile.... because why not? Best best? Scum is between Shad/ Alanna/ Kivam/ Crusher

Oh I'm sorry, do you have a problem with me not F5ing my computer 24/7 to see what your next dumbshit accusation is? The amount of times you two have called me out for inactivity in this game is retarded. But you ignored my last question to you, so who went quiet?

 

 

I think this should prolly count as an over reaction eh Shad.

 

lololololol

 

 

 

 

Nyn basically covered this, but I wanted to point out, I really, really hated this list when I first saw it.  I'm caught up so I've seen your reasoning post, and it makes MORE sense to me, but I'm still not sure I agree with it.

 

You were meant to. It had no reasons given and had some pretty strange calls (with thought process behind them, including some that were primarily reaction fishing, but not obvious thought process). Yet I basically had to push to be pushed on it. Why is that, do you think? 

 

 

I can see Calder being town, so I don't have any issues with that.  Hallia and Dice...I don't have a problem with.  I already said my piece on Hallia, but I can see why others would have her as null.  Shad's position isn't bad.

 

But I'm not sure I've seen enough from AJ to feel anything about him, besides he's an experienced player who doesn't make awful posts.  What do you think he's contributed to the game that's been "calling out the right things"?  The only thing I remember him calling out is his approach to peeks and making a comment about Laine.

 

I don't have much experience with Nolder, so I can't back or refute your claim that mafia!Nolder is self-conscious.  I just remember him being pretty quiet in TUS, and the fact he hasn't said much so far this game makes me not feel good about him.

 

Crusher I would expect to be lower for you, given the meta you provided, and I really don't like that you're essentially giving him a base when you seemingly have reason to push him.

 

 

Having Thane and Nyn as your top two scumreads is awful though.  I was a little worried about Nyn earlier when I saw she was just doing a bunch of one-liner multiquotes, but her sinking her claws in is EXACTLY how she plays, and I don't think she's been wrong to push Shad with anything she has.  None of her points were completely wrong or blatantly made up, and she obviously has a high level of conviction.  

 

Thane...eh, I'll be honest.  He always sound scummy to me.  I have a hard time reading his posts and not automatically concluding he's scum, so I wouldn't mind suspicion of him at this point, but the strongest suspect?  Really?

 

re the bold - yes, those.  That's enough on D1 for me to moderately greenread him.  Doesn't mean I trust him, and his silence since then is not helpful, but for D1 he's not in my WTL

 

Re Crush ... as I said, D1 for him it's not unusual for him to be jokey and not provide much red meat (he likes to keep the red meat for himself).  I do agree with you that the latch onto my post on Nyn was opportunistic.  Nyn isn't a player who's as careful with her words as some others might be, and frankly I was expecting her to respond with something along the lines of "I meant that I felt that I was making good observations", which was the back end of that quote ("I feel that I've been legitimately scumhunting and making good observations").  In fact, I had originally bolded the full clause in her original post, read the back end and went "oh, so that's what she meant", and decided to unbold the remainder and throw the point out there anyway to see what fishies might bite.

 

Was hoping to let that play out a bit longer before unvoting, but I think it's potentially landed a whale, particularly combined with the misdescription of Nyn's meta and the fact that he suddenly had content to provide once I identified "sliding Crush" as a sign of "scum crush".

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Crusher[/v]

 

As for Thane.  Yes.  He honestly feels completely different than any game I've ever played with him, and I've played a few.  Usually he gets scumread for content, but he's being much less controversial this game.  Usually he's bouncy and gregarious, and he's much more contained this game.  He remains firmly in my WTL.

 

You are so full of shit dude.  You tell people my scum meta is joking in the beginning of games?  Please show me a game Im scum or town I didn;t joke around in the beginning.   Just one.  Then you vote me because you are telling me my meta is wrong for Nyn? So Im scum for being wrong about Nyn's meta while you lied about mine?

 

Wow.  You would get slaughtered at JN for trying this crap.  But hey if these guys want to get duped by you, then fine.

 

unvote vote Doggin.

 

 

GROSS REACTION VOTE

[Shad_]

 

 

Shad goes quiet in the meanwhile.... because why not? Best best? Scum is between Shad/ Alanna/ Kivam/ Crusher

Oh I'm sorry, do you have a problem with me not F5ing my computer 24/7 to see what your next dumbshit accusation is? The amount of times you two have called me out for inactivity in this game is retarded. But you ignored my last question to you, so who went quiet?

 

 

I think this should prolly count as an over reaction eh Shad.

 

lololololol

 

THAT I can whole-heartedly grant you.  (It was also like the fourth or fifth time I'd been called out for avoiding discussions when I've been pretty diligent about tossing myself in the middle of most of them.)

[Calder]

Once again "attacking your attackers" is not pushing.

[Shad_]

Once again "attacking your attackers" is not pushing.

 

Why?

[Zander?]

dice, still waiting to hear why you think Zander is town.....

 

Cause i am

 

 

dice, still waiting to hear why you think Zander is town.....

 

Probably a safe assumption that was his peek.

 

 

This is what i got from it.

 

Hi Calder.

 

Personally I think Clov is probably just some supercomputer behind the screen and no one has figured it out yet.

 

 

Prolly

 

Alright, done working.  I'll reread more attentively probably in the morning, maybe tonight depending on how things go.  Two thoughts that stuck with me from trying to keep up on my phone earlier:

 

Clov has me a little nervous with his wtl on Hallia. I understand the pressure. I also know he watched her eat a lynch with zero effort as town last game and it's unfortunately something she occasionally does as either alignment.  She definitely needs to step up--I don't know that I'd be gearing up to lynch her already.  I'm also not sure where his early town lean on Calder came from given all the praise for his scum game later.

 

I'm feeling pretty good about Nyn.  I didn't take her vote on me as opportunistic at all; the vote came out of our direct interactions, and she's been entirely willing to continue to engage me since.  I kind of think the Nyn from US would have dug into the back and forth between me and Calder more.  It didn't feel like a "this is going to be my mislynch target" vote.  More like she says what she's thinking in the moment and doesn't really care if it doesn't all jive together perfectly.  I'll ISO her before I commit much to that read.

 

@ Shad ok i found this post on page 21,  still think my assessment of you and Nyn was fiarly accurate atp in my read through though. so....

[Nynaeve]

 

dice, still waiting to hear why you think Zander is town.....

 

Cause i am

 

That's swell... but up to that point that was dice's only contribution and I wanted him to talk more.

[alannalynn]

 

Once again "attacking your attackers" is not pushing.

 

Why?

You attacking Calder comes off more as defending than anything else and the view is biased.

 

I would like some cases on the others that are less clouded by Calder in general?

 

okay gtg for now, schoolwork