Is Lan a blademaster?

[Gympok]

Now, ive read the series a couple times and im rereading it and i noticed that Lan's sword doesnt have the heron mark on it. Mind you he has killed 6 guys at once and has the skill to be a blademaster. I mean he trained Rand who killed a blademaster. However, theres no mention of him killing a blademaster or of him being raised to blademaster status by other blademasters. So is there any proof out there that Lan is a blademaster, or does he just have the skill to become one?

[Gentled Ben]

He killed that blademaster in Far Madding, just before Rand was captured, in WH.

[Gympok]

Where in WH is it because i cant seem to find it.

[Gentled Ben]

I think it's WH. It's when Rand and Lan are in Far Madding, and just after Rand sees the ghosts of Rochaid and the other guy (I'm terrible with names). Rand has a confrontation with Padan Fain in a room where Lan duels the same nobleman who was dueling Rand in the previous book just before the killing fog came along. Fain's little lackey, that nobleman (again I suck with names), is a blademaster (that much is given us during Rand's sparring match with him in the previous book), and Lan kills him. :)

 

Edit: I checked in the encyclopedia, and the chapter is "A House on Blue Carp Street." The blademaster's name was Toram Riatin, and it was Torval and Gedwyn that Rand saw apparitions of.

[isk]

the nobleman blademaster is Toram Riatin, and yes it's in Winter's Heart. something like the third to the last chapter. it's the same one where Rand is holding Lan from falling from a rooftop. Lan looks at him and says, "let go." Rand replies, "when the sun turns green." great scene.

 

sorry, tangent. anyway, I haven't found any canonical proof of Lan's status either. he's been called a blademaster in many webpages but I've read no official reference to back it up.

 

Lan's sword is the one handed down through the Malkieri royalty. putting a heron on it would not be proper since a Malkieri king might have to take the sword before he became a blademaster, as was the case with Lan.

[aes_sedaiwrong]

who cares about officials saying he is or not? by his deeds and skill he can kick any BM ass....so who cares if some papers in a false kings files says he is?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Two things go through my mind here:

 

1) Title or not, Lan is as skilled as any blademaster living.

 

2) I doubt Lan cares enough to worry about whether or not he has the title to go with his skills.

[Myyrth]

In a word?

 

"yes"

 

I actually believe he's an officialy confirmed Blademaster, like with the whole council thing. No book evidence but it's what I think.

[Arath Faringal]

Official? It's possible that he isn't. But judging by what we've seen of Lan, its a formality. When it came down to it, would anyone deny him the title?

[Naudran Grimnir]

Lan is a blademaster, although no where is it stated how exactly he got the title.

 

Just speculation but the 5 soldiers that trained him was the last 5 left of the 20 best swordsmen in Malkier... so they were probably all blademasters. Five blademasters are the amount needed (if I'm not mistaken) to give someone blademaster status.

 

As for Lan's sword not having a heron on it. In the beginning of The Great Hunt, Lan explains about Power wrought blades. About how in the War of Power, generals got the swords with herons on them. He then goes on to explain the irony that the sword of the king of Malkier was a Power wrought sword of a common soldier (from the War of Power).

 

So, the sword that Lan carries, is the sword of the Malkieri king. The sword is Power wrought, so probably because of that no heron can be etched onto the blade.

[Thor]

Two things go through my mind here:

 

1) Title or not' date=' Lan is as skilled as any blademaster living.

 

2) I doubt Lan cares enough to worry about whether or not he has the title to go with his skills.[/quote']

 

Exactly. Who cares about a title? Look at all the "blademasters" that got beaten in the books. Heck, even Rand is apparently a "blademaster" and he got kicked all over the place.

 

Names mean little when you don't have what it takes to back it up.

[Myyrth]

We forget that defeating another Blademaster does in fact make you an "official" if we are at all concerned about technicalities here.

[Guest Fire Lord]

Two things go through my mind here:

 

1) Title or not' date=' Lan is as skilled as any blademaster living.

 

2) I doubt Lan cares enough to worry about whether or not he has the title to go with his skills.[/quote']

 

Exactly. Who cares about a title? Look at all the "blademasters" that got beaten in the books. Heck, even Rand is apparently a "blademaster" and he got kicked all over the place.

 

Names mean little when you don't have what it takes to back it up.

 

 

Lan is IMO a blademaster. I mean, Warders are reputed to be deadly with a sword, and I believe one Aes Sedai whose name escapes me for the moment comments that Lan is the best Warder alive or something along those lines.

 

I'd say Rand is a blademaster, though there is also no official comfirmation, but my question is, when was he ?kicked all over the place??

[Myyrth]

I think he's just remarking on the fact that Rand tends to get hit hard in any conflict. You notice how whenever he gets in a major plot conflict he loses a limb or gets another debilitating wound.

[trakand01]

I agree, I think most warders, and Lan in particular have transcended the blademaster status already!

[courtneysfoster]

I'd say Rand is a blade master, though there is also no official confirmation

 

Rand is a confirmed blade master. If for no other reason than RJ himself said so in an interview. The evidence RJ sites is that Rand killed the blade master at Falme in TGH.

 

I would use this as evidence that Lan is as well since he trained Rand. Honestly I think Lan would still win any sword contest between himself and Rand.

 

~Courtney

[Guest cwestervelt]

We forget that defeating another Blademaster does in fact make you an "official" if we are at all concerned about technicalities here.

 

Lan' date=' and Rand before losing his hand, certainly possess the skills necessary to be a Blademaster. As stated earlier, they probably wouldn't care if the title was never officially confered on them. However, by the end of [u']Knife of Dreams[/u] there was nothing to indicate either of them met the requirements.

 

To be confered the title, the candidate must do one of the following.

 

1) Demonstrate proficiency before a panel of Blademasters and receive a unanimous decision.

2) Defeat a Blademaster in a properly witnessed single combat.

 

While both Rand and Lan have defeated Blademaster's in single combat, those victories were not properly witnessed and are insufficient to confer the title.

 

-----

 

Note: The BWB, states Lan was already a Blademaster when he met Moiraine. I don't consider the passage to be reliable as it doesn't fit with the the events in New Spring: The Novel. I suspect it was assumption that Theresa Patterson made without first consulting Jordan.

 

Called Aan'allein or "Man Who Is an Entire People' date='" wielding his Power-wrought blade, Lan became a Blademaster.[/quote']

[RobertAlexWillis]

I don't consider the passage to be reliable as it doesn't fit with the the events in New Spring: The Novel.

 

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just wondering ... what in New Spring specifically prevents Lan from being a blademaster?

[Guest cwestervelt]

I don't consider the passage to be reliable as it doesn't fit with the the events in New Spring: The Novel.

 

I'm not disagreeing' date=' I'm just wondering ... what in New Spring specifically prevents Lan from being a blademaster?[/quote']

 

Nothing specifically prevents him. I just never got the impression that the other characters regarded him as such. They considered Lan to be good, but not that good. He was widely recognized, but it wasn't for his skills so much as for his heritage.

 

I find New Spring to be a little confusing that way. When Lan fights and wins against six Ryne almost doesn't believe it. And Ryne is acknowledged to be the better swordsman. At the end of the book Lan basically admits that Ryne had him beat.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I'm guessing there are a number of swordsmen out there who are skilled enough to be blademasters, but don't bother with the ranking. "Ye Olde Guild o' Blademasters" certainly isn't a very organized group, and for a man like Lan, I don't think the "public recognition" factor would cause him to go out of his way.

 

So, if I had to venture an opinion, I would say that he's probably not bothered getting the title, but by the time of the main series books, he's certainly skilled enough to have it. He's had more important things to do than show off for 5 other men or seek out duels to prove his worth.

 

As far as people's attitudes toward Lan in New Spring, maybe people underestimated him because he didn't bother to show off. Ryne certainly did, and in the end, there is only one measure of who is better in a swordfight. Who lives, and who dies. Ryne was better at swordplay by a small margin, but Lan is a better fighter.

[courtneysfoster]

To be confered the title, the candidate must do one of the following.

 

1) Demonstrate proficiency before a panel of Blademasters and receive a unanimous decision.

2) Defeat a Blademaster in a properly witnessed single combat.

 

Where did this bit of legalese come from? I've never seen anything so explicit for a definition of a blade master anywhere in the series.

 

When asked if Rand was a blade master by a fan, RJ himself said yes. Good enough for me. Argue all you want. :)

 

~Courtney

[Gentled Ben]

I recall "witnessing" Rand's defeat of the blademaster. I had such a good view of it, in fact, that it was almost like I was seeing it through Rand's eyes. I'll glady confer the title on him. Does that count? :?

[RobertAlexWillis]

I recall "witnessing" Rand's defeat of the blademaster. I had such a good view of it, in fact, that it was almost like I was seeing it through Rand's eyes. I'll glady confer the title on him. Does that count?

 

LOL ... are you a resident of Randland?

 

Look ... both Rand (with his hands) and Lan have the skills to be a blademaster. Neither seems to have the official title, and getting it is WAAAAAAAAY down on the list of their priorities.

[Guest Fire Lord]

I'd say Rand is a blade master' date=' though there is also no official confirmation[/quote']

 

Rand is a confirmed blade master. If for no other reason than RJ himself said so in an interview. The evidence RJ sites is that Rand killed the blade master at Falme in TGH.

 

I would use this as evidence that Lan is as well since he trained Rand. Honestly I think Lan would still win any sword contest between himself and Rand.

 

~Courtney

 

Hmm, in a contest between Rand and Lan, would it matter that Rand is younger? :D And Rand did kill two Warders, if not exactly with a sword

 

, but that's no small feat (it's like killing two Aiel to me).

 

But then Lan has years of experiences... Honestly I think there'd not be any clear winner, or whoever won would be badly wounded.

 

But then again, he'd be a winner.

:D

[Gentled Ben]

If RJ actually said that, and he based it on Rand's defeat of Turak, then Lan is also a blademaster by virtue of having defeated Riatin.