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 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

Andrej

By Andrej
in DM Mafia Games

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Leelou Spam Master

Leelou

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Sooh was on last night when I was and she left no vote .... Yes I stalk people >.>

Lol! People need to leave you cookies.

Please do :biggrin:

 

 

:laugh:

Hallia Spam Master

Hallia

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Posted

I disagree with Darthe.  Due to the high volume of animosity spewing off of Kivam, I think he is legit upset.  I would look at anyone not on his wagon.  If it makes you feel better to lynch me first to test that or whatever, it's fine by me, but I don't see it being allowed to go as far as it has if it was false anger.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

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Sooh was on last night when I was and she left no vote .... Yes I stalk people >.>

I tried stalking people last game and it backfired miserably. :\

alannalynn Spam Master

alannalynn

Posted
Posted

 

 

Laine - I see possibly scummy motives behind what she's doing, but not scummy tone. She can fake her tone well to a point, but our exchange N1 felt just a little too Laine. She has me second guessing. I like that she challenged Kivam's 'no town reads' idea. I'm not sure what to make of Kivam responding to it with explanations when he responded to Dice with accusations.

Explain Shad? What do you mean by my tone?

 

Not sure I agree with Leelou as your top town read. I think Hally has/had her there too. I'm not seeing it yet.

 

I'll go back to those other things from earlier and respond when I feel like it.

 

Surprised Shad hasn't questioned me about the difference in my playstyle / activity. Yet he's talking about my tone being townie and me being unable to fake it? Weird

Red is just the sort of thing I've called attention to. I noted that you were too inactive to reveal much D1. That you liked some of my case on Tina and voted her with reservations about me, then quickly voted me after she flipped town. I didn't like the whole process. I've pointed out where things you have accepted out of me when we we've towned together and when you were buddying me as mafia you find scummy in this game. I still have questions at you that are floating unanswered (#626) unless search is hiding something. You took another look at me and your reactions were more reasonable--you said you don't always get everything the first time around--but you can understand why I am not thrilled that you got to wanting to lynch me before getting to reevaluate me. If I look at the whole thing from the perspective of "do these actions help accomplish a scum agenda", the answer's yes. I'm seeing selective memory aimed towards my mislynch. Now you're stating that I haven't questioned the difference in your playstyle / activity, and once again it feels opportunistic.

 

Unless you mean something like a straight up "Laine, why are you different this game?" I don't think that's a useful question though. I'm pointing out where I think you're treating me differently than usual and why I think it's opportunistic.

 

Blue Your tone is different from when you tried to push a lynch in Belichick and reminded me of how I've seen you push players as town. I explained the difference and you said it was "all crap". You actually took offense to some of it. Can Laine fake emo? Absolutely. It bought Zander a lot of yardage. Can you fake the eagerness in wanting to lynch someone you honestly think is scum? That I've not seen before, and I'm less willing to accept it.

 

I'm waffling between a course of action that feels incredibly scummy and tone that doesn't to a degree that makes me hesitant. I said I wanted to look at Kivam. I did. There is no way that no scum have voted me in this game. Tina's dead town. I like Leelou. That leaves you, Hallia, and Kivam. Would be pretty bold if all three of you are scum, and I want to lynch the best option. I have really conflicting feelings about you. It helps your case that you were the only person to draw attention to one of the scummiest things Kivam is doing here imo rather than just answering his question and letting the subject slide. I'm wondering if Hallia really puts forth this little effort as scum when she's guaranteed to get lynched for it sooner or later. Kivam's only excuse is that I've never seen him play before, and I've made my thoughts on him pretty explicit. Considering how exhausting it was to ISO him, I'm worried that a lot of people who have seen him in action before aren't going to commit the time to figuring him out.

 

Red: I'm going to get to that post (below). I pretty much skipped over it and I don't know why? As for the bold: I'm playing a lazy game, therefore I'm not doing the same detailed reads that I normally do (as either alignment). That is making me inconsistent and I'm relying on overall impressions rather than the actual evidence that I should be reading. Because of that, some general impressions that I got at first with posts stuck with me and once I went back and read them, they changed. Unfortunately my memory isn't perfect so crap happens. I in no way mean to spin anything by or play opportunistically, but it's just the result of my not being as thorough as usual. Things should be back on track soon, now that I'm feeling better.

 

Blue: The part I said was all crap (iirc) was your throwing dirt all over my attempts at scum hunting. I just came from a really bad town game and it kinda knocked the WiM out of me even more when you called out how I mislynch when town. I wasn't even trying to be emo, I was legit pissed at you.

 

Underlined: I'm leaning Hallia, I haven't liked her content this game. I joked saying that her joke:content ratio was off, but it IS feeling off to me for some reason, I need to read up and check what bothered me when I ran through her ISO before. I'm also not getting a good feeling from Leelou, but I never do so I may leave that up to others to read her. Additionally, I have a mixed/townish lean on Dice, let it bite me if he flips red, idc.

 

Purple: what is this in reference to again?

Orange: Hally is feeling like Hally from Harry Potter, imo.

 

 

Okay I went through the EOD1, up through page 26 where I stopped, I'll put it in a spoiler for you sensitive folks

 

 

 

#387 I have to agree with Shad here, he makes sense in how he reacted to something he knew was a test.

 

Catching up, I liked Laine's catch up posts and thoughts. Aside from a couple of her nulls, and Dice being town, it's pretty in line with mine.

 

 

I'm going to Vote: Tina

I think I'm just gonna give up on reading Dice from this point forward. Nobody's ever going to be happy with me. LOL I think cautiously town would be my read on him at the time of my WoT. Also of note for anyone reading my reads list from my 2-parter WoT, they were not in order...

Town pile: Dice, BFG, Thane, Hally

Mix: Sooh, Seph

Leaning scum: Shad, Tina

 

Null: Darthe, Kiv, Talya, Leelou

I tend to say "list" when they're in order and "pile" for general slots to put people in. In reality, as of when I made that post, it would have been BFG, Thane, Hally, Dice in order.

 

gut call, i wouldn't object to a Darthe or dice vote.

Why Darthe, why Dice? (already answered, get back to this later)

 

 

gut call, i wouldn't object to a Darthe or dice vote.

Dice is troubling me. I don't like that his posts since I said I 'wanted to call him town' are on the validity of tone reading as a method as opposed to reading the players. But his banter felt better at the beginning of the game and he had a couple of early soft reads I liked. Not sure I'm ready to vote here yet, could be a Day 2 read for me :dry:

 

Why Darthe? Can you explain any more on Dice?

 

Why are you discounting tone reads? IIRC, Dice has mentored Seph before and he knows how he thinks. So, if anyone I would trust that he could at least make a good attempt at reading Seph based on how he's posting. Honestly I'm tempted to label Seph TWTBW for his actions, but I know that's not gonna fly, so I'll give it more time.

 

#413 BFG, I agree that Seph's disappearance after pressure was relieved is curious.

Kiv/Darthe MEH for me, I need a lot of time to get those two. Shad has been pinging on some posts and not on others, where I'm used to reading him clear town.

 

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

I only town lead when it's necessary. I'm okay with BFG taking the lead, she asks better questions and hunts down more details than I ever will LOL. Hopefully I wont annoy you too much this game with my posting since the other game I'm in has a lot of high volume posters to keep up with.

 

Dice, presence? Since when? I'm happy to get the posts from him we've gotten so far... :tongue: He's generally a low poster compared to most, so I don't see what you're getting at entirely with his "town presence".

 

And Darthe... he's been more quiet lately all over, due to his job, so I'll really just take what I can get. Is the goal here to lynch inactives or mafia?

 

Decided to highlight points where Thane has faked or forced tone here to cast himself in a (townlike) light. Color matching, yo.

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

 

Ew. I actually see what you mean Darthe, and I have to hold myself back from doing this as scum because I want to SEEM unsure as town, but too much comes off as overselling it. I don't think an entire case can be made on him just off this though, so I'll keep it in mind. Will need to read other games with him to see how this holds true, as well.

 

#424 This solidly feels like a backtracking post from Shad. I understand intentionally going for reactions, but also slipping up and saying something OOC and then saying it was a reaction thing to see how Seph would respond sounds worse.

 

gut feeling on this, BFG. Those are quite hard to explain, but i have a feeling something's up with him.

 

it's true that i'm not so worried about the other players, but they haven't struck my spidey-senses like he did.

Wishy washy

 

In response to Sooh post #433, I mis-worded that, it should have been "I didn't like her NOT adding to what was going on earlier" in reference to this post where you dropped commentary but didn't add anything to what was going on either way.

 

 

BareBEAR with me here for a moment. Ya'll know how as town you post what you think and maybe give a little bit of thought to how it sounds so that you don't step over your own feet when posting?

 

Seph tends to not do that last part as town. He isn't generally very self aware and it makes it a pain to work with him over time. So I'm letting him ride on that atm.

 

However, when you're a wolf you tend to have to think about how to say what you want to say. You know it isn't true and knowledge that you're trying to fabricate something generally causes people to struggle when creating a push at someone else. A new player might stick to completely safe, secure statements. A more experienced player might try to goad or pull out players to argue with them in a bubble, isolated from the people "outside" the discussion. Really experienced players know what they find as town and just mimic that. However, and this is something I use a lot, most people don't know at what point to stop talking. What I see a lot from wolves is that they go a sentence or even a few sentences too far and it creates something like what I'll quote in a minute.

^This

 

LINK Interesting case on Thane, not sold. Probably gonna do some research on Thane for this one unless BFG already beat me to it? *hoping* :wub:

*is lazy*

 

*applauds*

 

you see right through me. Ofcourse i'm baiting you. I want to see how you react here. And i did get a reaction out of you, which is nice. I do crazy things at times, that much is true. I do still think you are wrong though.I know i'm town and i highly doubt Seph is a wolf this game.

 

Now, answer me this: are you town this game?

Feels very reactive coming from Thane

 

Darthe where do you get layers from Soohs post?

 

I feel like we're reading different things this game, and that worries me after last game with Clov :dry:

We still won, despite all my efforts! :wink:

 

 

Bare with me here for a moment. Ya'll know how as town you post what you think and maybe give a little bit of thought to how it sounds so that you don't step over your own feet when posting?

 

Seph tends to not do that last part as town. He isn't generally very self aware and it makes it a pain to work with him over time. So I'm letting him ride on that atm.

 

However, when you're a wolf you tend to have to think about how to say what you want to say. You know it isn't true and knowledge that you're trying to fabricate something generally causes people to struggle when creating a push at someone else. A new player might stick to completely safe, secure statements. A more experienced player might try to goad or pull out players to argue with them in a bubble, isolated from the people "outside" the discussion. Really experienced players know what they find as town and just mimic that. However, and this is something I use a lot, most people don't know at what point to stop talking. What I see a lot from wolves is that they go a sentence or even a few sentences too far and it creates something like what I'll quote in a minute.

So what changed from earlier in the game when you thought Seph was wolfy for the strange logic?

 

*want an answer on this.

 

Again another odd post in response to Darthe. Thane what are you thinking here?

 

Talya reads, noted for later

 

So I guess I will Hammer - so wasn't waiting for it honest :D

 

[v]Tina[/v]

<3 lol Talya we can always count on you

 

 

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

sometimes true. also true is that you often doubt me when you are mafia.

 

Do you have support of this Dice?

 

Gonna move Thane to a mixed category pending more information, Sooh can be townish now, Dice still okay in town, Shad firmly in scummy... Darthe and Talya trending into townish for effort

 

 

 

Let's do specifics...

 

Dice what are your thoughts on Sooh and Hallia?

 

Laine what are your thoughts on Shad and Talya?

Ninja'd lol

 

Shad I'm very wary of. His reaction post to Seph asking for a vote was very OOC and then playing it off like a reaction test felt like backtracking. That coupled with him calling the trap from Kivam just feels so weird. He's coming off as very wary this game but still has those really townie moments interspersed. I've never really had to question my read of Shad before, and that has me thinking that he's mafia.

 

As for Talya, I need a lot more time for her. I like her reads list, I need to go back to it and look it over though because I mostly skimmed it. But I have a hard time reading Talya to being with.

Laine, explain to me the distinction between red in the spoiler and this. Also,

 

I'll go ahead and [v]Tina[/v] because that's where I'm heading anyways. Right now for me it's a toss up between her and Shad, but I like the points he made on her a page back so that's that especially since they echoed my own.

 

If she flips mafia, it'll make Shad town in all likelihood. And if she flips town, I'll just have to reevaluate

Which points did you like?

 As for the first part (ie the difference btw the one in the spoiler and the other, two hours later): I think your reaction to springing the trap was okay but that you were expecting it to be a trap felt like you were wary of how you're being read, which I think is wolfy. It's easy enough for townies to fall into a trap and LOL!townie but naming it Trap and deciding to react to it a certain way felt like you were wary/hesitant.

 

Second point: Tina's case, I was voting her for jumping on Kivam's TMI case which I thought was faulty, but I also liked your case on her in this post here Not calling out any specific points (that's then and done), but I liked some of the inconsistencies you brought up and also thought she would be a good lynch for d1, so that's where my vote went.   

 

I apologize that I didn't respond to this post before now, I wasn't avoiding it lol

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

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I disagree with Darthe.  Due to the high volume of animosity spewing off of Kivam, I think he is legit upset.  I would look at anyone not on his wagon.  If it makes you feel better to lynch me first to test that or whatever, it's fine by me, but I don't see it being allowed to go as far as it has if it was false anger.

 

I was thinking this too.

Hallia Spam Master

Hallia

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*nodnod* It makes sense to me.

 

Did I do an opposite gut read then?  I had Kiv, Leelou and Thane as town, are they in fact the scum? If so I am going to cry. XD

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

Ok, so Darthe and Talya both opted for Kiv when Dice's train was leading/tied. They could have gone Dice without any major contradictions. I saw NotBob do it once, but it didn't help him any in the end.  In Belichick Talya hesitated to vote a team mate who she'd been scum reading all game when there wasn't a competing train.  Does she go for Kivam over Dice here?  Doubtful.  Neither player was under much suspicion to begin with and I don't see where the move makes sense coming from scum.  Seph looks nearly as good for turning it into a train.  He'd been scum reading Kivam and town reading Dice so I wouldn't have put as much stock into the vote if it came at the end, but it didn't.  There's my strongest town pile.  It holds so long as Dice is actually town.
 
If it's two scum trains, I don't know.  Seph voted when it was 1 on Dice and 2 on Kiv.  He'd been a bit inactive.  He could have easily avoided voting and seen if things stacked up against a non-team mate.  I think he's town here regardless of Dice.  Darthe and Talya I'd have to look at again if Dice flips scum.
 
Am I interested in testing Dice right away?  Not really.  Kivam took the same approach to slinging mud on Dice as he did on me.  I want to think if they were team mates it would have looked different.  Kiv would have had something more substantial to grasp at.
 
Kiv responded to Laine and Dice very differently for making pretty much the same points, and I don't know if that indicates one is a team mate or if it's just a consequence of Dice being Kiv's mislynch target and Kiv grasping at straws for dirt.  I kind of think the latter? because one of the positive things I had on Laine was her willingness to question Kiv.  Laine would have looked better for hammering and says she planned to.  It's kind of null after the self-vote.  Meh, I need to figure her out better and I'm not used to that at this stage in the game.

 

Thane's 2x vig claim was a really illogical move for scum to make.  So was his pretty blatantly asking people to unvote Kiv and join him on Dice.  Thane didn't act anything like that in SW and while I think he's done some goofy things here I don't see them as scummy things.  Sooh and Leelou I liked for their tone when I didn't have much else to base reads on.  Sooh was town reading Kivam--her vote would have made sense on Dice.  Scum Sooh likes to avoid being a part of town flips.  Meh need to reconsider her in general.  Leelou was on the wrong wagon if Dice isn't scum too.  I don't have much else against her.  Hallia sort of stands alone in the worst position out of this.  Looking at Laine/Sooh/Leelou/Hallia for D3.

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