[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[Shad_]

Okay I went through the EOD1, up through page 26 where I stopped, I'll put it in a spoiler for you sensitive folks

 

 

 

#387 I have to agree with Shad here, he makes sense in how he reacted to something he knew was a test.

 

Catching up, I liked Laine's catch up posts and thoughts.  Aside from a couple of her nulls, and Dice being town, it's pretty in line with mine.

 

 

I'm going to Vote: Tina

I think I'm just gonna give up on reading Dice from this point forward. Nobody's ever going to be happy with me. LOL I think cautiously town would be my read on him at the time of my WoT. Also of note for anyone reading my reads list from my 2-parter WoT, they were not in order...

Town pile: Dice, BFG, Thane, Hally

Mix: Sooh, Seph

Leaning scum: Shad, Tina

 

Null: Darthe, Kiv, Talya, Leelou

I tend to say "list" when they're in order and "pile" for general slots to put people in. In reality, as of when I made that post, it would have been BFG, Thane, Hally, Dice in order.

 

gut call, i wouldn't object to a Darthe or dice vote.

Why Darthe, why Dice? (already answered, get back to this later)

 

 

gut call, i wouldn't object to a Darthe or dice vote.

Dice is troubling me. I don't like that his posts since I said I 'wanted to call him town' are on the validity of tone reading as a method as opposed to reading the players. But his banter felt better at the beginning of the game and he had a couple of early soft reads I liked. Not sure I'm ready to vote here yet, could be a Day 2 read for me

 

Why Darthe? Can you explain any more on Dice?

 

Why are you discounting tone reads? IIRC, Dice has mentored Seph before and he knows how he thinks. So, if anyone I would trust that he could at least make a good attempt at reading Seph based on how he's posting. Honestly I'm tempted to label Seph TWTBW for his actions, but I know that's not gonna fly, so I'll give it more time.

 

#413 BFG, I agree that Seph's disappearance after pressure was relieved is curious.

Kiv/Darthe MEH for me, I need a lot of time to get those two. Shad has been pinging on some posts and not on others, where I'm used to reading him clear town.

 

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

I only town lead when it's necessary. I'm okay with BFG taking the lead, she asks better questions and hunts down more details than I ever will LOL. Hopefully I wont annoy you too much this game with my posting since the other game I'm in has a lot of high volume posters to keep up with.

 

Dice, presence? Since when? I'm happy to get the posts from him we've gotten so far... He's generally a low poster compared to most, so I don't see what you're getting at entirely with his "town presence".

 

And Darthe... he's been more quiet lately all over, due to his job, so I'll really just take what I can get. Is the goal here to lynch inactives or mafia?

 

Decided to highlight points where Thane has faked or forced tone here to cast himself in a (townlike) light.  Color matching, yo.  

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

 

Ew. I actually see what you mean Darthe, and I have to hold myself back from doing this as scum because I want to SEEM unsure as town, but too much comes off as overselling it. I don't think an entire case can be made on him just off this though, so I'll keep it in mind. Will need to read other games with him to see how this holds true, as well.

 

#424 This solidly feels like a backtracking post from Shad. I understand intentionally going for reactions, but also slipping up and saying something OOC and then saying it was a reaction thing to see how Seph would respond sounds worse.

 

gut feeling on this, BFG. Those are quite hard to explain, but i have a feeling something's up with him.

 

it's true that i'm not so worried about the other players, but they haven't struck my spidey-senses like he did.

Wishy washy

 

In response to Sooh post #433, I mis-worded that, it should have been "I didn't like her NOT adding to what was going on earlier" in reference to this post where you dropped commentary but didn't add anything to what was going on either way.

 

 

BareBEAR with me here for a moment.  Ya'll know how as town you post what you think and maybe give a little bit of thought to how it sounds so that you don't step over your own feet when posting? 

 

Seph tends to not do that last part as town.  He isn't generally very self aware and it makes it a pain to work with him over time.  So I'm letting him ride on that atm.

 

However, when you're a wolf you tend to have to think about how to say what you want to say.  You know it isn't true and knowledge that you're trying to fabricate something generally causes people to struggle when creating a push at someone else.  A new player might stick to completely safe, secure statements.  A more experienced player might try to goad or pull out players to argue with them in a bubble, isolated from the people "outside" the discussion.  Really experienced players know what they find as town and just mimic that.  However, and this is something I use a lot, most people don't know at what point to stop talking.  What I see a lot from wolves is that they go a sentence or even a few sentences too far and it creates something like what I'll quote in a minute.

^This

 

LINK Interesting case on Thane, not sold. Probably gonna do some research on Thane for this one unless BFG already beat me to it? *hoping*

*is lazy*

 

*applauds*

 

you see right through me. Ofcourse i'm baiting you. I want to see how you react here. And i did get a reaction out of you, which is nice. I do crazy things at times, that much is true. I do still think you are wrong though.I know i'm town and i highly doubt Seph is a wolf this game. 

 

Now, answer me this: are you town this game?

Feels very reactive coming from Thane

 

Darthe where do you get layers from Soohs post?

 

I feel like we're reading different things this game, and that worries me after last game with Clov

We still won, despite all my efforts!

 

 

Bare with me here for a moment.  Ya'll know how as town you post what you think and maybe give a little bit of thought to how it sounds so that you don't step over your own feet when posting?  

 

Seph tends to not do that last part as town.  He isn't generally very self aware and it makes it a pain to work with him over time.  So I'm letting him ride on that atm.

 

However, when you're a wolf you tend to have to think about how to say what you want to say.  You know it isn't true and knowledge that you're trying to fabricate something generally causes people to struggle when creating a push at someone else.  A new player might stick to completely safe, secure statements.  A more experienced player might try to goad or pull out players to argue with them in a bubble, isolated from the people "outside" the discussion.  Really experienced players know what they find as town and just mimic that.  However, and this is something I use a lot, most people don't know at what point to stop talking.  What I see a lot from wolves is that they go a sentence or even a few sentences too far and it creates something like what I'll quote in a minute.

So what changed from earlier in the game when you thought Seph was wolfy for the strange logic?

 

*want an answer on this.

 

Again another odd post in response to Darthe. Thane what are you thinking here?

 

Talya reads, noted for later

 

So I guess I will Hammer - so wasn't waiting for it honest :D

 

[v]Tina[/v]

<3 lol Talya we can always count on you

 

 

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

 

sometimes true. also true is that you often doubt me when you are mafia.

 

Do you have support of this Dice?

 

Gonna move Thane to a mixed category pending more information, Sooh can be townish now, Dice still okay in town, Shad firmly in scummy... Darthe and Talya trending into townish for effort

 

 

 

Let's do specifics...

 

Dice what are your thoughts on Sooh and Hallia?

 

Laine what are your thoughts on Shad and Talya?

Ninja'd lol

 

Shad I'm very wary of. His reaction post to Seph asking for a vote was very OOC and then playing it off like a reaction test felt like backtracking. That coupled with him calling the trap from Kivam just feels so weird. He's coming off as very wary this game but still has those really townie moments interspersed. I've never really had to question my read of Shad before, and that has me thinking that he's mafia.

 

As for Talya, I need a lot more time for her. I like her reads list, I need to go back to it and look it over though because I mostly skimmed it. But I have a hard time reading Talya to being with.

 

Laine, explain to me the distinction between red in the spoiler and this. Also,

 

I'll go ahead and [v]Tina[/v] because that's where I'm heading anyways. Right now for me it's a toss up between her and Shad, but I like the points he made on her a page back so that's that especially since they echoed my own.

 

If she flips mafia, it'll make Shad town in all likelihood. And if she flips town, I'll just have to reevaluate

Which points did you like?

[dicetosser1]

i did try to get up for it but i turned the alarm off and fell back to sleep at 4 30am lol

 

I had a busy w/e BFG   house inspection next week so trying to get stuff together

[Shad_]

Going on 8am and I haven't slept yet, found out I'm officially moving for the 14th time today (yesterday?) and it's killing me.  I'll add that BFG seems to be hunting pretty hard and I want it to make her town.  She's someone I'm not going to trust a simple read of and I want to do a post-by-post analysis like last game before I give her the green light.  She was hesitant to vote EoD and that's in keeping with her town game.  She did go through with it over a no lynch this time but night mechanics are different in this game so that part is null.  Talya had a carefree hammer instead of sneaking her vote in the middle, and that's the sort of difference I'm looking for out of her, but it's also an easy adjustment to make.
 
Sooh, Seph, Leelou I'm ok with so far, BFG, Talya, Darthe looking good but more apt to fool me.  Thane and Dice null as usual with a question in mind for Thane when day starts, Hallia performing sub-par, Kivam in need of a full reevaluation and worrying me.  Laine looking pretty bad.

 

Going to try and sleep again.

[BFG]

ISO of Dice

 

 

 

 

Talya confirmed hot, Thane confirmed girly, (Darthe confirmed short?), Dice confirmed in world of his own ITT

 

 

BFG looking to get kicked out of the band....

 

 

should Darthe wield the axe... would be good, he'd be town then

Thane and seph have a wolf between them I think

 

 

why?

 

 

(Incidentally did you really not get the LOTR reference???)

 

I wont be voting seph today and im actually pretty close to leaning town on him. Based off what i learnt about him when mentoring. He was town then and i am seeing a lot of the same town and puppylike overeagerness that gets him hit with signs.

 

 

Am looking at Shad   was concerned he was fencesitting on seph but then he dropped the vote. reevaluating.

 

 

 

Bleh, I don't like that Thane is basing town reads off of spammy chatter at the beginning of game, it's free passes that are not warranted.

 

Thane already answwered this but i was gonna say it was tone based

 

Tone reading? Sould reading? Does it actually work for anyone?

 

yes it does. Tone at least. Ive caught AJ off one word, Laine off one response to me all based on tone.  Its not fool proof but it DOES work. Some people are good at it some arnt. I think the gut instinctual players are better at it then the critical thinkers ones

 

 

 

Dice, I kinda want to say you're town just from this page?

 

 

then do so BFG.

 

You will be right

 

 

 

 

ehh, I think you spilling the beans, had the dissuade factor. not sooh, nudging shad.

 

All due respect, Seph, this is silly.  Once Player A (Shad) has gotten pressure for voting Player X (You), Player X is no longer low hanging fruit and a cautious mafioso isn't going to come piling on to a bandwagon.

 

 

 

 

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I really dislike this post by kiv.

darthe posted them, so they are reads. apparently something you forgot while interpreting my post for me is MAFIA have to make reads as well!

I never once have called darthe town, and no it does NOT imply that.

[unvote]

[v] kiv[/v]

 

 

And this is also silly.  (Not the vote, but the thought process).  Mafia members don't make or post "reads".  Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum).  But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

 

I disagree. 1) townies dont know who the scum are. some people   and this relates to your confirmed townies call list thing   want people to give their reads so they can hold them to those and use it as a baseline to watch how they develop/change etc. therefore scum need to give reads to appear like everyone else. 2) Scum still have to make reads. how else do they pick out the cop/doc/whateva before a claim? 3) if you make no reads in thread  or you fencesit on reads all the time  you get lynched. therefore scum make reads to avoid getting lynched.

 

the difference is they make informed reads and those are often fairly consensus. Every single scum in the game is gonna town reqad BFG fro eg

 

re mafia knowing alignments   in this game you are correct but not in all games. the dont know roles however and thats what they are looking for

 

 

what concerns me is I think you know this. I shouldnt have to tell you this

 

 

And BFG is looking good, loving the questioning

 

I agree with this ... which makes me think BFG is likely dead tonight.

 

Interesting strategy question - in a game like this, with likely no doctor, is announcing our town reads a particularly good play?

 

 

as above  yes  gives a baseline to look at people on. If i list BFG as town then suddenly start voring her for no apparent reason i get questions to answer as to why. this allows people to get a bead on me.

 

Vote Count 1.6

 

Seph (2) - TinaHel, Shad

TinaHel (1) - Kivam

Kivam (1) - Seph

 

Not Voting (9): Hallia, Darthe, Thane Vakarian, AlannaLynn, dicetosser1, BFG, Talya, Sooh, Leelou

 

Deadline: Saturday, August 8, 12pm PST

 

 

 

 

Thanks KEY!!  i love these particular ones      even if it does have politicianville instead of sydney....

 

I thought that is what a soul read was? calling out the mafia team...

 

 

 

forgot the last quote there

 

seph  it seems to me that what you are talking about is a kinda blind gut read.  you look at the list, say the names maybe, and see if you feel something.  that or ure just guessing blindly to see how close you come.

 

 

Soul read to me seems like a more informed gut read. it takes meta into account. it takes posting style and what is actually posted into account.

 

 

 

i'm surprised you're not talking to Laine here, BFG. I usually see her doing what you are doing right now, 'leading town' as it were. I do hope Laine will get more active (i haven't gotten to the point yet were i just want her to stop posting, lol)

 

As for Dice... i don't know really. I miss his town presence in the game. Early D1, i thought he'd be in the town pile easily. But, more time passed, and i just can't put him there anymore. When i doubt dice, it's usually not a good sign.

 

As for Darthe, i miss him. Really, i do. I'dlike to team up with him and the other townies and just roll over those wolves like a steamroller. But, i'm not entirely convinced he's town here, i need more from him to be able to read him better.

 

sometimes true. also true is that you often doubt me when you are mafia.

 

 

Incidentally the most recent game you were in you were both mafia reading each other despite me saying you were both town  

 

as for activity    even I have a life occasionally. 

 

 

BFG you gotta have things to comment on to make comments. I havent understood a lot of what kivs been going at  i commented on seph cause he was a hot topic and other then that this games been fairly bland for me.

 

 

Let's do specifics...

 

Dice what are your thoughts on Sooh and Hallia?

 

Laine what are your thoughts on Shad and Talya?

 

Everything after this point is in response to someone so less alignment indicative. 

 

if id been here for DL the only way i vote tina is consolidation. There was no REASON to lynch her.  But saying that im not really feeling the flow of this game   am a bit unattached to it so not sure how good my reads are. Im really looking for D2 as a fresh start  start putting pieces together4 once we get info

 

i have peeps i think are town

 

Seph Laine BFG   nut no real good possibilities for mafia.  Um a little wary on leelou just cause she doesnt seem to have much content but i cANT really talk either

 

 

i thought sooh sounded light hearted at game start which is a good sign but i dont have a lot of memory of her. Whether thats my fault or not im not sure

 

 

Hally  i dunno. i noticed one post where she was kinda sus on me but i dont know why other then that i feel like its just been fluff pieces.  I sux at reading hally tho

 

 

shad   mafia but thats my head not my gut and that makes a difference

 

 

im saying my gut is right more often then my head is. i tend to overthink things

 

 

Stuff in green is what I liked early game. Since then a lot of your posts are neutral. You have a scummy read on Shad (early read given is good), but you never approach/address him again. You seem to dislike Kivam at one point, but again never go back to it. And those are major pings.

 

I don't particularly like you using Kivam as an excuse for not playing.

 

And the big thing right now is that you're here joking around (which is fine, it's a game ) and defending your activity which is a minor point. BUT you're NOT trying to solve based off your own bat. In my head I have 2 conflicting things, first is those early reads given off your own bat, and for whatever reason, I agree, this is a hard thread to dig into. Against that is that you're not obvious town yet, and the longer you stay in null the more concerning you get.

[dicetosser1]

I wasnt useing Kiv as an excuse at all. i simply stated a lack of understanding of him

[BFG]

Ok, then what are your opinions on the rest of the thread?

[BFG]

Going on 8am and I haven't slept yet, found out I'm officially moving for the 14th time today (yesterday?) and it's killing me.  I'll add that BFG seems to be hunting pretty hard and I want it to make her town.  She's someone I'm not going to trust a simple read of and I want to do a post-by-post analysis like last game before I give her the green light.  She was hesitant to vote EoD and that's in keeping with her town game.  She did go through with it over a no lynch this time but night mechanics are different in this game so that part is null.  Talya had a carefree hammer instead of sneaking her vote in the middle, and that's the sort of difference I'm looking for out of her, but it's also an easy adjustment to make.

 

Sooh, Seph, Leelou I'm ok with so far, BFG, Talya, Darthe looking good but more apt to fool me.  Thane and Dice null as usual with a question in mind for Thane when day starts, Hallia performing sub-par, Kivam in need of a full reevaluation and worrying me.  Laine looking pretty bad.

 

Going to try and sleep again.

Sorry to hear that

[Talya]

Hello there. Housework done...now back to my re read. But will be here.

[Talya]

@ Seph - who are your town reads now. Are Sooh and Dice still your top two, or has that change, if so why?

 

@ Thane - same question to you about top town reads

[BFG]

I just ISOd Thane. I'm pretty sure he's town. Poke with a stick every so often to check

[Kivam]

kiv we may just have to agree to disagree but i will say if you want to focus on semantics dont be surprised if people give you semantics back.

 

 

BFG  Thane set off an alarm bell for me. When he starts doubting me   with one exception that comes to mind  I start worrying

 

There's a difference between looking at players' word usage for clues about their alignment and psychology and picking a theory fight about a mechanics issue that you know with 100% certainty has no application to the game you are playing.

 

The former is scum hunting.  The latter is deflection and distraction.

[Kivam]

hiyas all

 

*hands coffee and other drinks*

 

*takes a highball glass of 64 Trinitas*

 

Damn that's good.  Didn't know you had that kind of money, Thane.  Thanks!

[Kivam]

I haven't really been a lurker for a while.  I made a point to change that meta here on DM and have, I think, done a great job of picking up my activity levels.

 

[Talya]

Going over the thread. This is the Shad vote. Funny how someone saying something, makes you think it happened

This Darthes post. Reading this makes me think Darthe is saying why He isn't voting Seph, someone said they thought he pointed it out (will hopefully get there soon)

 

 

 

Leelou, I was voting darthe to get a reaction out of him, plain and simple.

0% the soul read was simply for fun, ad i figured by placing a vote, referencing it people wouod realize it as a joke. Which most did mind you.

It's page 7...point me to somone who is actively scum hunting with only half the game checked in leelou.

The reactions I got towards the post however, will help towards hunting.

Red is reasonable. Green really isn't when you are someone who I know makes serious votes early in a game without much to back them. If you're town, try to keep in mind that it's ok to look derpy sometimes even if you really aren't. This reads to me like you're digging for an out rather than explaining your thought process.

I'm gonna try to not reinvent the wheel here or give seph an out. His actions were simply wolfy. the only reason to not vote there yet is that that read isn't locked.

 

 

This is beforeShad vote, reading over it makes a little more sense. I had it in my head Shad voted in first post after Seph. Seph doesn't actually say about Shad not voting, just the free pass. (Only about 45 mins since Shad was questioning him).

 

 

 

Getting the game going, and getting reactions is scummy?

Maybe you need to post a play by play again, on how I should play the game.Shad, why are you giving me a pass here?

Darthe you vote to get a reaction I believe. And did you just call me scummy, but not scummy?? Why are you not voting me?

You think this is going to get me killed?? Trust me I'm not letting anyone mislynch me this game, unless I take down. Wolf or two in the process.

To you I say, glgl.

Keeping my vote on darthe for fence sitting.

 

 

About half of the posts I've made in this game so far have been directed at you.  How does this question make any sense whatsoever?

Posts above first then posts the vote below. Rereading puts in perspective.

 

  

I'm guessing you don't like that I didn't vote you yet.  I suspect that, had I voted you, you wouldn't like that either.  Stupid games like this get what they ask for.  [v]Seph[/v]

[Kivam]

Tina was too easy as a lynch. D1 always is the hardest day to find a wolf, but i had doubts she was a wolf. Did say she was worth investigating, didn't mean she was worth lynching.

 

When D2 starts i'll vote Darthe. His handling of Tina and me is odd. Didn't vote him because i knew it wouldn't get enough traction end d1, not enough people around (hybrid hammer, perhaps, but not here)  

 

I read that activity after seeing she'd been lynched, and even knowing it would happen I had no idea how it actually came about.  Need to reread you for a bit, though ... I don't remember you actively arguing against her lynch, which would make this post-flip posturing rather than honest thoughts.  But my thread recall is spotty these days, so ... we'll see

[Kivam]

i hope i get a better feeling for you this game, Hallia. 

 

 

 

 

this shot is not meant for you

 

 

 

 

So ... either there's no vig in the game or you're dead?  Is that what we're to take from this?

 

[Kivam]

 

 Grrr. The nesting quotes combined with Laine responding to me in blue makes it pretty impossible to quote to respond.

 

Re Laine saying she didn't see Dice's post as attempting to throw suspicion on me: that is literally the only possible function of this line from Dice:

 

 

what concerns me is I think you know this. I shouldnt have to tell you this

 

Combine that with the smoke-and-mirrors of the equivocation between alignment reads and role reads, and the manufactured aspect of the "ok you're right in this game but not in all games" line of argument (again, if you're trying to solve, you agree with me about the thing we agree on and argue about the things you don't; if you're trying to make a player seem scummy, you don't give them any daylight at all in a post you're planning on ending with "what concerns me is I think you know this"), and what do you get?

 

A scummy push on a player who had drawn a lot of heat, without (at the time) a strong other lynch candidate drawing votes, and who could not respond.

 

Hence Dice is firmly in my scum pile

[Talya]

I'm going to [v]unvote[/v].  Seph's reaction to pressure seemed believable to me.  I'm still concerned by the potential TMI slip more than anything, so I'm not exactly tossing Seph into the townpile, but it's not enough to justify a bandwagon this early.

 

That said, I'm pretty annoyed by the pressure Shad is getting for his vote ... was hoping to see another few people hop onto the Seph lynch when it seemed like low hanging fruit before unvoting.  That won't be happening now.

 

What did you think I'd Shad's vote at this point Kiv?

 

This feels like jumping off something that could turn into a lynch and not wanting it to be one.

[Kivam]

I don't see the point here. I use town reads from those I'm reading as town to narrow down my POE for scum. It feels to me like you're trying to scare us into having no clear townies and muddling reads by spreading suspicion which I'm not sure I agree with. It's one thing in Avatar where you're protecting a specific player, but another where we are scum hunting for a team to determine who they are connected with.

 

At the same time I am intrigued by the concept and would like to know how this would work in action but not totally comfortable with it.

 

Not so hard to understand.  We post our scum lists, and keep our townies to ourselves.  You can still use reads from people you are townreading to inform your own analysis - if someone you trust doesn't share your scum read on player X, take a second look - but you don't hand scum a prioritized kill list. 

[Kivam]

 

 

 

I'm just wondering if y'all were to guess town or mafia on Shad right now, which would you pick, based on on what you've read so far on the game and without spending an hour in his ISO. lol

I think he's scummy.

Why? In your list you had him as null, then moved him to your bottom 2, before voting, without really addressing him in the interim

Yeah, been busy and haven't been at a computer most of the day yesterday. After I posted my reads, I noticed his posts were starting to have a general slimy feel from them. I almost forgot about deadline and voted quickly while driving into Boston. If you notice from my reads I also said that I didn't see anything wrong with Tina. There was no way I was going to vote her. That lynch yesterday was crap.

 

 

This. Very much this

[Kivam]

Aroundish, 5am, irritated by the flip and irl things.  Quick skim I would lynch Laine in a heartbeat and it's going to look omgus as hell, I have to completely reevaluate Kivam but I have a bad feeling about him, I was initially bothered that Leelou quit explaining her reads after a few of us commented on them positively but why would scum stop doing the main thing they're being town read for?  Sudden lack of interest in building town cred is not inherently scummy but it's not exactly helpful.  Will comment on Laine at least and maybe some other things if I haven't fallen asleep yet.

 

What's going on IRL?

[Talya]

 

Yes :) anything else would have worried me

Can you explain your reads on Kivam and Seph up to this point?

 

Seph's attitude is very different here than in Star Wars. He's playing with confidence and swagger where I remember him as defensive and insecure. His more recent games should tell me if this is his new norm. Supposing for now that it is since no one has called him out for it, the big thing that bugs me is the explanation behind his Darthe vote. He contradicted himself explaining his thought process, as I see it, and I don't get how that happens if he was being honest. But he's putting on a show of trying to solve. Three votes and a lot of accusations didn't frazzle him much. It's not the Seph I towned with two months ago but that's not scummy in and of itself.

 

Kivam is interesting.  I feel like he's all over the place.  I want to interpret it as trying to shake things up and keep the game moving.  He's having a go at people who haven't been sussed at all (Sooh, Tina, Hallia, me before I got into it with Seph).  That's productive at this stage, if it creates some inconsistency.   He got on Sooh for sussing me over the Seph vote.  That felt weird, but I'm not seeing Sooh's scum game at all here and he might not know what to look for.  I don't have a clue what is normal for him so meh.  I want to like him.

Does the bold sound like he thought Sooh had Sus him out? I keep reading it and it feels like it could be a slip.

[Thane Vakarian]

Going on 8am and I haven't slept yet, found out I'm officially moving for the 14th time today (yesterday?) and it's killing me.  I'll add that BFG seems to be hunting pretty hard and I want it to make her town.  She's someone I'm not going to trust a simple read of and I want to do a post-by-post analysis like last game before I give her the green light.  She was hesitant to vote EoD and that's in keeping with her town game.  She did go through with it over a no lynch this time but night mechanics are different in this game so that part is null.  Talya had a carefree hammer instead of sneaking her vote in the middle, and that's the sort of difference I'm looking for out of her, but it's also an easy adjustment to make.

 

Sooh, Seph, Leelou I'm ok with so far, BFG, Talya, Darthe looking good but more apt to fool me.  Thane and Dice null as usual with a question in mind for Thane when day starts, Hallia performing sub-par, Kivam in need of a full reevaluation and worrying me.  Laine looking pretty bad.

 

Going to try and sleep again.

you my or may not have an answer, depending on the events and actions that have occured, for the sake of gameplay. I'm sure you understand that.

 

@ Seph - who are your town reads now. Are Sooh and Dice still your top two, or has that change, if so why?

 

@ Thane - same question to you about top town reads

Top town is definately BFG this game. Second and further i'd put Seph, Shad and Sooh. Nothing stands out yet and they've been doing well imo. You're not doing too bad either  

 

I just ISOd Thane. I'm pretty sure he's town. Poke with a stick every so often to check

don't poke too hard, i might spring a leak I'm glad that we're (more than likely) on the same side this game.

 

 

hiyas all

 

*hands coffee and other drinks*

 

*takes a highball glass of 64 Trinitas*

 

Damn that's good.  Didn't know you had that kind of money, Thane.  Thanks!

 

I have many talents *nods and bows* i can also make killer cocktails.

 

 

Tina was too easy as a lynch. D1 always is the hardest day to find a wolf, but i had doubts she was a wolf. Did say she was worth investigating, didn't mean she was worth lynching.

 

When D2 starts i'll vote Darthe. His handling of Tina and me is odd. Didn't vote him because i knew it wouldn't get enough traction end d1, not enough people around (hybrid hammer, perhaps, but not here)  

 

I read that activity after seeing she'd been lynched, and even knowing it would happen I had no idea how it actually came about.  Need to reread you for a bit, though ... I don't remember you actively arguing against her lynch, which would make this post-flip posturing rather than honest thoughts.  But my thread recall is spotty these days, so ... we'll see

 

i put Tina in my 'need to investigate' pile D1. I couldn't actively argue against her lynch, because i wasn't fully convinced she was town. She wasn't an obvious wolf either. I had her null more than anything else. And null people D1, i don't like to lynch that much. I still need to check the EOD on Tina, i think i can find a wolf, perhaps two, on her train.  

 

 

i hope i get a better feeling for you this game, Hallia. 

 

 

 

 

this shot is not meant for you

 

 

 

 

So ... either there's no vig in the game or you're dead?  Is that what we're to take from this?

 

 

you can take from this what you like *nods* It's a bit too early in the game to fully clarify

[Thane Vakarian]

i'll be somewhat busy writing on some things somewhere else (takes a lot of time) and this is my last evening off before going back to work. 3 weeks off was nice, but always too short;

 

i'll keep checking in though

[BFG]

Final Count 1

 

Kivam (1) - Seph

TinaHel (7) - Darthe, Shad, AlannaLynn, Hallia, Sooh, BFG, Talya

Shad (3) - Kivam, TinaHel, Leelou

 

Not Voting (2) - Thane Vakarian, dicetosser1

 

7 to lynch.

So the votes never get that close, Tina is always more than a vote ahead.

 

Darthe's vote is weird and he doesn't explain it until after the flip and doesn't really explain it then. It's frustrating but not necessarily meaningful.

 

Laine's vote stands out because she has Shad and Tina in her bottom 2, but doesn't quote Tina in her catch up posts here or here and just says that her vote on Sept was opportunistic. In general this reads a little oddly because her bottom 2 are both there due to votes on Seph, yet she has Seph in mixed.

 

Hallia cases Tina so the vote isn't surprising, but here she doesn't like Tina or Shad, and she hasn't mentioned Shad since.

 

Sooh's vote stands out a fair bit. She's suspicious of Shad here and here. Here she has a wtl of Tina, Shad, Darthe, Kivam but Tina is more null than anything else.

 

It could be voting the largest train with 30 minutes to go, but in HP she voted Dice to put him at 2 votes with less than an hour before deadline. There is a difference in that HP was hybrid hammer instead of hammer.

 

I still feel pretty comfortable with Talya, but can't trust this read for a few more game days.

 

If Shad flips mafia Laine, Sooh and Hallia might be a good place to look for team mates. Voting Shad instead of Tina would have equalled the trains. It could also be that with 30 minutes to go she was voting the largest train.

 

I'm not sure what to make of Shad being in the bottom 2 of so many people yet not getting many votes.

 

Probably worth looking back at this after more flips

 

 

 

 

[v] TinaHel [/v] my reason is an if then statement that I'm betting on floating a certain way

1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, pretty much signing off for Shabbos - I may have another chance to show up before candle lighting, but I doubt it - so I'm going to [v]Shad[/v].  I really did not like the hemming and hawing before voting for Seph, and then voting Seph after he posted what I thought was a very convincing explanation.  This vote is likely locked in, given the deadline, so let's see what shakes free from it.

 

1:1

 

Ok, so in British Monarchy Seph pretty much guns for mislynches the whole way through and maintains his pushes long past the point of reason.  JS push begins with a JS/Pral scum mate theory but manages to persist long after he backs off of Pral.  D2 he still wants to lynch JS for pushing "derptown" Eldrick, but yet also wants to lynch Eldrick for no obvious reason beyond Eldrick having a train.  It seems like a very pre-planned "I'm going to buddy these people, lynch these people, make a last minute excuse to vote any other town that develops a train."

 

The only similarity I'm seeing in this game is that he makes strong town reads of a few players really early on.  Since then he seems like he's trying to figure out who is town rather than figure out who he can lynch today.  Early pressure could have thrown him off in this game I suppose, and he's handling pressure differently in this game than what I saw in SW.  But I can't help but think based on BM (where Seph was killed by rng, not actually lynched) that scum!Seph hops on the opportunity to press a case on me after a few people sussed my vote.  I had a prediction for how town!Seph would react to the vote, and I didn't see that, but I am definitely not seeing how I think scum!Seph would have reacted based on BM.  My vote served its purpose and I don't want to lynch him today.  [unvote]

 

 

Tina:

 

 

 

#157 agrees that Seph's "0-2" post regarding his and Thane's alignment could be TMI.

 

~~Reasonable and still a point worth revisiting depending on how things progress.

 

#160 votes Seph

 

#183 in response to Sooh not liking Tina's or my vote, says "I did notice that Shad didn´t vote Seph until there were already two votes (and basically being told so by Seph)."

 

~~I would have been happier if she explained what bothered her personally about it instead of just stating the sequence, especially considering she's responding to a post where Sooh susses her.

 

#256 in response to Kivam voting her, "agrees with Sooh" about Kiv "poking everywhere", points out that she's always a low count poster, defends that she has contributed by noting that she's one of the few people who have voted so far, questions how Kiv can "always" target her D1 when she only remembers playing one game with him.

 

~~It kind of pings me that she's bringing up Sooh again in pretty much the same manner--pointing out that she noticed the same thing without commenting on how she feels about the observation. Characterizing her vote on Seph as a significant contribution seems a bit exaggerated.

 

#257 likes BFG for asking a lot of questions, wants her to comment more on the replies

 

#258

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just want to understand what Kivam is talking about when saying I (and Sooh? Don´t remember who it was.) was stopping a potential Seph wagon. Did you want it to be a Seph wagon? You unvoted Seph after that, which I take that you don´t think he is mafia. So you wanted a wagon to see who would vote him to catch mafia? Would people voting him be more likely mafia? I didn´t see many people wanting to vote Seph before that either. Actually, there were a lot of people defending him.

~~Asking Kivam about his wagon issue is reasonable enough. I absolutely don't get how she suddenly forgets Sooh in this context. It feels fake to me. Maybe a bad attempt to make some earlier buddying feel more natural? I don't know. Sooh is pretty strong town to me in this game and I'm not interested in humoring w/w here.

 

#287 defends that she gave a reason before voting Seph, defends her low post count, comments on how many games she's played with Kivam.

 

~~The reiterations here are because Kivam asks again, so that's fair enough. Then:

 

 

 

 

I just want to understand what Kivam is talking about when saying I (and Sooh? Don´t remember who it was.) was stopping a potential Seph wagon. Did you want it to be a Seph wagon? You unvoted Seph after that, which I take that you don´t think he is mafia. So you wanted a wagon to see who would vote him to catch mafia? Would people voting him be more likely mafia? I didn´t see many people wanting to vote Seph before that either. Actually, there were a lot of people defending him.

Yes, I wanted a Seph wagon, both before and after I thought he was scummy. The vote on him was real, based on inconsistencies in his posts ... at least, given how I and others were reading them. But his explanation for the discrepancies was a good one, and I believed it - at least enough to make me unvote. But precisely because I thought his explanations were good, I waited to actually unvote to see whether any other players would pile onto him despite his answers - since that, to me, would be a sign of potential scum. That's why I'd say people voting him once he had some momentum would have been more likely to be mafia; he already had a 3 vote train that had built before his explanations, so adding fuel to the fire would have been an easy scum play (and less easily understood as town play given his explanation).

 

Could you link me to the "a lot of people defending him"?

 

I don´t get the first sentence. You wanted a Seph wagon before you thought he was scummy? Did you mean town? Because you think he is town now, right?

 

I will have to go back and see who defended him. I know there were people saying that this is normal Seph play etc.

 

~~I can see not liking Kivam's play here or thinking his explanation is a lie. But I don't really see where it's confusing. Is she honestly failing to understand what he's trying to say or is she not interested in understanding it?

 

#289 Says Sooh and Talya were the only people defending Seph.

 

~~I remember Dice defending him pretty hard.

 

#293

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ehh, I think you spilling the beans, had the dissuade factor. not sooh, nudging shad.

All due respect, Seph, this is silly. Once Player A (Shad) has gotten pressure for voting Player X (You), Player X is no longer low hanging fruit and a cautious mafioso isn't going to come piling on to a bandwagon.

 

 

 

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I really dislike this post by kiv.

darthe posted them, so they are reads. apparently something you forgot while interpreting my post for me is MAFIA have to make reads as well!

I never once have called darthe town, and no it does NOT imply that.

[unvote]

[v] kiv[/v]

 

And this is also silly. (Not the vote, but the thought process). Mafia members don't make or post "reads". Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum). But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

TO the first part, the reason he was getting pressure, wasn't because he voted me. its because he didn't vote me until I asked him why he did not.

 

 

2nd part. your right they do know alignments, but I do not. I have no way of currently knowing if darthe is mafia or town.

So to me they are reads, and I will agree, or disagree if I want to. ITS NOT SILLY, it is me playing the game. I have no way of knowing if they are fake until a flip, or end game.

 

I really disagree with about everything you are saying lately.

 

 

 

I like this post. It´s correct that Shad was getting preassure because he didn´t vote you until after my vote, and after you asked him why he hadn´t voted.

 

The rest seems... sincere.

 

 

[unvote]

 

~~And here's the catch. This isn't why I was getting pressure. Hell, I think Dice liked the fact that I eventually voted Seph. Sooh and Darthe were bothered by the vote because the manner in which I delivered it was completely out of character for me. I kind of feel like Tina just went along for the ride. She doesn't know what's normal for me. She was bothered by the sequence? If she was humoring the possibility that my vote was sincere, it's no secret that Seph asked me why I didn't vote him first. This was my stated reason for voting him.

 

#310 Darthe votes Tina and makes it clear that he doesn't want to say why yet. Tina responds that she doesn't understand his vote.

 

#314 ISOs everyone, no analysis but doesn't want to lynch BFG, Thane, Seph, Leelou. Quotes BFG's uncertainty over whether Kivam's interpretations are sincere or intentionally twisted. Says she's wondering the same thing.

 

~~Kivam does have some questions to answer here. I don't think he's going to be addressing them before EoD.

 

 

 

 

[v]TinaHel[/v]

 

I'm comfortable with this one as the D1 lynch.

 

2:1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll go ahead and [v]Tina[/v] because that's where I'm heading anyways. Right now for me it's a toss up between her and Shad, but I like the points he made on her a page back so that's that especially since they echoed my own.

 

If she flips mafia, it'll make Shad town in all likelihood. And if she flips town, I'll just have to reevaluate

 

3:1

 

Answers to Shad:

 

1. I definitely thought it was worth pointing out that you choose to vote Seph first when he had already two votes (although you went after him a lot before) and was asked to do so by Seph. Me pointing this out means that it´s worth pointing out and even though you think I didn´t give my own comments on it, it was something negative that you did. I think you understand that without me saying it´s bad. Why would I point it out otherwise? 

 

2. The preassure on you was definitely because you waited with your vote until you saw someone else had voted before (my reason) + someone else posted that it was strange of you to vote after Seph told you to. That is kind of a meta reason and I don´t know your meta.

 

3. I have a really bad memory so if I say that there is something that I didn´t remember, it´s true.

 

4. Why was I not allowed to question Kivam about what he meant? I didn´t understand it, so I wanted to know. 

 

 

I hope this is not an omgus vote from me but:

 

[v] Shad [/v]

 

 

As said before, I didn´t like your vote of Seph. Your list was kind of good but I don´t like your "case" on me. 

 

 

About Laine:

 

I like that you are questioning Kivam but the rest of the catch up posts are not what I´m used to from you. A lot of it feels like filler.

 

3:2

 

Catching up, I liked Laine's catch up posts and thoughts.  Aside from a couple of her nulls, and Dice being town, it's pretty in line with mine.

 

 

I'm going to Vote: Tina

case here

 

 

4:2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[v]shad[/v]

 

4:3

 

I'll be here for EOD. 

 

Going to say [v]Tina[/v]

 

Subject to change closer to EOD. I have too many possible scums

 

5:3

 

[v]Tina[/v]

 

No lynch is a bad way to start the game and I can't clear her.

6:3

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I guess I will Hammer - so wasn't waiting for it honest :D

 

[v]Tina[/v]

7:3