[Basic]: Be Nice Mafia

[Thane Vakarian]

buddying? I don't know. Would i stand up for you and prevent a lynch on you? More than likely i would try, seeing i think you're town. 

[Cass]

buddying? I don't know. Would i stand up for you and prevent a lynch on you? More than likely i would try, seeing i think you're town. 

 

Um, why don't you know?

 

This (the bold) is a strange and wilfy way to answer this question, IMO.

 

*backs away*

 

 

 

 

*g*

 

 

[Thane Vakarian]

i do remind you that, i am, in fact, strange... and so are my answers

 

 

 (you should know after my rulebreaking rampage last year)

 

[Thane Vakarian]

i will be back later, my day of work has nearly finished

[Cass]

i do remind you that, i am, in fact, strange... and so are my answers

 

 

 (you should know after my rulebreaking rampage last year)

 

 

Yes, lawbreaker, you are ... lol

 

Have a good night :)

[Cass]

Getting back to these... sorry for the delay.

 

 

 

The specifics I worked on on Sili, also just in case.
 

 

NB I've tried to make this whole exchange as neat and as easy to follow as possible. Questions/Answers have been numbered and placed in sequential quotes, my old stuff is now all black, new stuff is up in blue, directly under the part it relates to. Nothing content-wise has been changed.

 

 

1 Why should we be reading you as Town?
2 What's the difference in your mind between a Town 'read' and a Town 'lean'?
3 What was your reason for suggesting Clov was a likely Wolf? Do you have a reason for not elaborating at the time?
4 You said chopping and changing is normal for you, and that you like to 'give your reads breathing room', but you 'pushed' Clov at least twice before suddenly dropping him and saying he actually seemed fine. Why?
5 Why is jmm's question about the number of wolves scummy?
6 How can you say you have Clov as Town because your interactions were 'likely v/v violence', but then claim you're 'spewed' clear if he is Scum? I can't follow that logic/don't see anything that points to either of these btw.

 

 

 

1 My engagement in the thread is good. I play this game to problem solve and my wolf game usually lags behind in this regard.

2 A read is a stated opinion while a lean is a stance. The former is less permanent, sometimes.

3 I was anxious to find scum so the first person to post something snarky caught my eye. I felt his soft nudge was unwarranted and premature given it was page 1. I didn't elaborate since sometimes wolves ask why a person is reading them this or that, but clov is experienced and knew I was in an awkward position and didn't have a strong case so it meant very little. I would approach it differently given another opportunity.

4 'at least twice'. How is it at least, and since when did I push him twice? I reminded him when it was apparent he wouldn't respond readily. To build a case twice on the same person I would have needed to adjust my reads three times. e.g. null -> scum -> town/null -> scum.

 

My process was null -> scum -> town. I changed my mind when his responses demonstrated a good level of engagement and insight; I read his nitpicking as genuine for clov (but I don't know him very well), and the conversation was remniscent of ones I've had with past villagers like csarmi or cory, and quite possibly clov in our one game together.

 

5The question was too detailed for me; for jmm it felt well thought out and premature. e.g. he says 'one or two scum probably'. He never responded to Clov's remark and he hasn't offered any useful input to gauge where he stands.

 

His latest post:

 

Truth.  I am very much taking that mindset, especially with Sili, since I tunneled him for a while last game  

like, he knows i'm town, otherwise the matter of tunneling me when I'm scum wouldn't be significant to him. Why not tunnel me again, right?

 

6 I rarely if ever engage/interact with my wolfpack. I don't have the knack for it. Clov also nudged me repeatadly and took me to task quite readily.

 

 

Quote 
(Originally Cass, - Pulled from top of Silli's next Quote - Time Stamp Lost)

1. Like I said in the generalised post, I'm glad you answered (and reading since that point, glad you have continued to interact) but I still feel like it took a lot to get you to 'explain' and that seems wilfy. I'll happily agree that you've been active in the thread since the beginning, but that alone doesn't automatically make you Town, and it's not quite the same as having a 'good' engagement - at least not to me...

 

2. Ok, cheers for explaining.

 

3. You felt his 'soft nudge was unwarranted given that it was page 1' and yet you voted BFG on Page 1 because of an emoticon. I mentioned before that I would have been ok to take that vote as a joke vote except you gave a 'proper' explanation when you unvoted and that seemed strange. The rest of your answer here feels like WIFOM. Except for the part where you say you'd approach it differently, what are you getting at there?

 

4. My explanation of 'twice' is that IMO you said you thought he was a wolf/pushed him for potentially being so here and here. I said you pushed him twice, not that you pushed him for two different things. The 'at least' is a disclaimer in case I missed something. WIFOM again for the 'I would have needed to adjust my reads three times... null-> scum -> town/null -> scum' thing. I never said anything like that and your null->scum->town thing could equally have been you backing off as a wolf because you didn't think your argument was going well/that you were going to get anywhere. 

 

5. I was wondering the same question (how many wolves), and asking whether it was one or two makes perfect sense to me, as it's highly unlikely to be anything else. I don't see this as wolfish, and I don't think that the 'probably' sounds overly out of place. I don't personally like jmm's tone or lack of as it makes him hard for me to read (and I find that suspicious in itself), but I don't think he's actually done anything suspicious yet. Because I don't see it as overly suspicious, I do find you jumping on this question somewhat opportunistic and therefore potentially wolfy. The point about the tunneling you when you're scum shouldn't be significant to him is a good one though - I'm waiting with interest to see his response.

 

6. I still don't understand your initial logic here (your interactions were 'likely v/v violence', but you're 'spewed' clear if he is Scum), and I can't confirm that you rarely engage/interact with your wolfpack / don't have a knack for it. I feel like you gave me fluff in answer for this question and then pointed your finger at Clov. The logic gap is/was a weak-to-null point for me, but not actually answering the question pings a little stronger.

 

 

 

1. It didn't take a lot ya know? I answered after you pointed them out to me, and all at once, not in bits and drabs. Yes, answering your questions was not my first priority, but I didn't dedicate space to not answering them either. There's nothing fishy here. 

 

I felt like it took a lot when I said that, probably because I felt like I had to highlight how scummy it seemed for you to avoid collaboration and plead for you to answer/explain in the post where I asked you not to give up if you were Town. You have to admit there was an attitude change between your 'I'm out' (etc) posts and the one where you actually started to answer the questions, and I felt like that wouldn't have occurred if I hadn't voiced concerns that your behaviour was likely to be scum. Reading on mobiles sucks, yes, but I can't tell for sure that you actually missed those questions at the bottom of the WoT the first time round. You did answer them, and now you're answering the questions that your original 'answers' raised, so that actually does look good. I find it a little fishy that you left out the original questions in the block of quotes you included in this answer, but for I'm trying to clear my head instead of tinfoil here so... Light help me if I'm wrong. 

 

2. Yep.

 

3. Bfg wasn't on my mind when I unvoted. Just clov. I never offered an explanation for my first vote. 

I think this one is definitely my bad. I interpreted the 'I may have been too abrupt' thing as relating to the vote on BFG, not Clov. On the re-read, you're right and you don't even mention BFG. 

FWIW in case you think it's suss, I think the tinfoil here occurred because I thought your vote on BFG for the emoticon was 'too abrupt', and so the words of this post associated with that event in my mind...   I obviously feel a lot better about this whole 'why wasn't it a joke-vote?' thing now.  

 

 

 

wifom? you think there needs to be a good reason page 1 for any sort of read?

No, my reference to 'WIFOM' was in relation to the answer you gave me when I asked why you didn't elaborate. I highlighted in red the part I found confusing/sketchy.  "I didn't elaborate since sometimes wolves ask why a person is reading them this or that, but clov is experienced and knew I was in an awkward position and didn't have a strong case so it meant very little." The first part makes sense enough by itself, but not in the context of the second part, which seems contradictory. It's like the first part you're saying 'I didn't elaborate because it's a strategy I use to catch wilves' and the second part you're saying 'but I didn't elaborate because Clov is experienced and would have caught me in an awkward position if I'd tried to make stuff up'. I'm  still don't entirely understand. Why would it be an 'awkward' position? Why would you want a 'strong case' if you were deliberately 'not elaborating'?

 

i would add a pound of logic since it was kind of flaccid in retrospect. reaction tests require traction.

Where would this 'pound of logic' come from if you 'didn't have a strong case' (your own words)? Why 'add' it instead of 'finding' it, if it was something you didn't already have?

 

 

4. =/ when you say i pushed him twice it implies a certain amount of sustained conviction or paranoia on my part.
The 'sustained' I agree with and was what I was implying was strange at that point of the game. 

'Conviction' and 'paranoia' would only be appropriate in the context that I thought what you were 'sustaining' was Townish. I didn't/don't, and I thought I'd made that pretty clear...

 

your null->scum->town thing could equally have been you backing off as a wolf because you didn't think your argument was going well/that you were going to get anywhere.

No it isn't. I don't build a case on clov to persuade anyone, and I don't wait on anyone to refute nonexistent arguments before i change my mind either. 

On re-read this is essentially true. 

Let's call it tone and gut and agree to disagree on this. (The red is in relation to Question/Answer 5).

 

(turns out i was too lazy to doublecheck this factoid but it's probably true considering my alignment). 

What? 

 

5. i almost always catch a wolf through their opening content: fnord, killer, cormag, heathcliff, lycan. i think there's a method to my madness, and i don't think it's wolfy for me to find the scummiest op and build a case for it.

I tend to try and gut-read like this too, but (the red) didn't you just say "I don't build a case on clov..." ? (see above)   

 

6. you have a strange opinion on what constitutes a fos. acknowledging a possibility isn't the same as voicing an opinion, right? you could be scum, but it doesn't mean you're likely to have randed it.

all you need to do to confirm is look at my history.

Ok. i) you still didn't explain what you meant by the 'logic' I originally questioned/didn't understand - the part where you said your interactions were 'likely v/v violence', but that you'd be 'spewed' clear if he is Scum. 

And ii) I thought the part  "Clov also nudged me repeatadly[sic] and took me to task quite readily. "  was you voicing your opinion/potentially suggesting Clov could be to blame for the off vibe I was getting from the interaction. Tbh the rest of it makes no sense to me.

 

 

 

 

 

Where would this 'pound of logic' come from if you 'didn't have a strong case' (your own words)? Why 'add' it instead of 'finding' it, if it was something you didn't already have?

 

uh, an ounce of flesh to a bone-thin argument doesn't make it strong. A case needs something more than one post to build from.

 

 

What? Just what? The blue was a probe/question about:

i) why you would choose to say the thing you would 'do differently' is 'add' a pound of logic; and

ii) how you would have possibly been able to do that/where you were suggesting this 'pound of logic' could have been coming from (if it wasn't TMI) since in the response above you 'explained' something else by saying you 'didn't have a strong case'.

 

Basically, the first part to me is suggestive that you're wilfy because I would expect Town in that context to say 'find' or 'have' a pound of logic rather than suggest that it is something you can just 'add' specifically if you have the choice - especially if you're claiming that you didn't already have 'a strong case'/much to go on - which is what you'd previously said.

 

I essentially agree with what you have said in the red, but I have no idea how your response is supposed to relate at all to the question/probe I put forward. I am trying to understand you here Sili, but my suspicion is only getting stronger now. Are you drawing this all out on purpose?? And how, if that's what you're doing, is that ever going to be beneficial to Town?

[Cass]

*Growls at crappy formatting*

[Cass]

 

Let's call it tone and gut and agree to disagree on this.

 

I get no villa points for knowing my content better than a third-party despite the hilarious volume of it?

 

So much tunnel.

 

 

 

Let's call it tone and gut and agree to disagree on this.

 

I get no villa points for knowing my content better than a third-party despite the hilarious volume of it?

 

So much tunnel.

 

 

What? The part you missed out by chopping the content in half is me agreeing that what you said was essentially true. 

 

If I'm not harping on at you about it, it means that I can see/understand what you say from the perspective that you might be Town, and the tone that I'm reading with it isn't raising a significant amount of suspicion.

[Cass]

 

I tend to try and gut-read like this too, but (the red) didn't you just say "I don't build a case on clov..." ? (see above)

 

I don't get what you're implying?

 

 

 

 

My bad... on a re-read I'm confusing something you said about jmm and Clov, thinking that they were both about the same player (Clov) and then calling you out on it being 'contradictory'. Sorry 

 

[Cass]

 

Ok. i) you still didn't explain what you meant by the 'logic' I originally questioned/didn't understand - the part where you said your interactions were 'likely v/v violence', but that you'd be 'spewed' clear if he is Scum. 

And ii) I thought the part  "Clov also nudged me repeatadly[sic] and took me to task quite readily. "  was you voicing your opinion/potentially suggesting Clov could be to blame for the off vibe I was getting from the interaction. Tbh the rest of it makes no sense to me.

 

 

i) guess i don't see the contradiction. 'clov is likely a v' and i'm a 'v', so v/v violence. then, clov and me went at each other hard, so if he is 's' then i'm probably spewed clear.

 

ii) I'm not going to over-think it. the quoted excerpt is more relevant to i.

 

 

i) Ok, we're getting there... the bold is the part I have a problem with. I disagree that you would be clear if he was scum, just because the two of you had had an early debate each voiced opposing sides. I'd take it into consideration, but it could logically still be either v-v or w-w interaction.

 

ii) Ok.

[Yates]

Yates, since you've been reminded and shouldn't have 'forgotten' him [JMM] again, what 'read' do you have on him now?

You know what? He reads to me as a vanilla Townie. I'd bet my entire mafia career on it.  

[Yates]

There's actually a big difference between being clumsy enough to draw attention to a PR hint publicly *before* a night kill, and clumsily trying to "distance from it" afterwards.  

 

I actually saw the hint myself, but didn't believe it, much like Sili seems to have done.  I was actually on the point of asking Thane why he answered BFG's "vig/doc/cop" query with a doc on jmm, until I remembered that Thane actually seemed to buy it.  

 

My questioning Sili on his statement that he didn't know why scum would have thought jmm was a PR was sufficient for that point.  Everyone saw what he wrote, and can draw their own conclusions from it - were you expecting me to continue to flog a dead horse?

Actually, I sort of agree with you in principal about there being a difference between the two clumsy statements but I also actually think they come from the same sort of logic. So what I was actually trying to do was figure out if you were actually trying to determine Sili's alignment or if you were just trying to make it look that way. Like I said, I actually have some meta knowledge on how Town Tress might actually go about pursuing a real lead. I can actually see, though, where Sili may have addressed your concerns through an argument that was actually different from the first but related. Actually.

[Yates]

here's another question then: if you look too townie, doesn't that make you a suspect?

Yes. But it also means you aren't a mislynch target and forces scum's hand. ALSO, you aren't a night investigation target so any potential cop doesn't waste their investigation on you. In a game this size? We need as many good investigation results as possible.

 

I used to try to play on the edge of Town and Scum. It's just too precarious and leads to too many mislynches. Plus, it has certainly bitten me before towards end game. Just play it straight.

[Yates]

If you're feeling that it's unnatural for you to be buddying everyone, then maybe that's because it is.

LOL - the joke is that it's "unnatural" for me TO BE NICE! In reality I really am nice, but I also know that I can take these mafia games seriously. And *sometimes* I can get a little too into character and take things a little too personally and can come across as being a big meanie. So I'm acutely aware [self-conscious even] of my posting style this game and trying to be over the top nice - even with people I disagree with or might consider a scum suspect.

[Songstress]

 

There's actually a big difference between being clumsy enough to draw attention to a PR hint publicly *before* a night kill, and clumsily trying to "distance from it" afterwards.  

 

I actually saw the hint myself, but didn't believe it, much like Sili seems to have done.  I was actually on the point of asking Thane why he answered BFG's "vig/doc/cop" query with a doc on jmm, until I remembered that Thane actually seemed to buy it.  

 

My questioning Sili on his statement that he didn't know why scum would have thought jmm was a PR was sufficient for that point.  Everyone saw what he wrote, and can draw their own conclusions from it - were you expecting me to continue to flog a dead horse?

Actually, I sort of agree with you in principal about there being a difference between the two clumsy statements but I also actually think they come from the same sort of logic. So what I was actually trying to do was figure out if you were actually trying to determine Sili's alignment or if you were just trying to make it look that way. Like I said, I actually have some meta knowledge on how Town Tress might actually go about pursuing a real lead. I can actually see, though, where Sili may have addressed your concerns through an argument that was actually different from the first but related. Actually.

 

 

I like how you snipped my post and ducked my question to you.  Here's the rest:

 

  He said what he said, after which I continued to try to clarify several of his statements, and pointed out that he was ducking responsibility for his reads, making suggestions that he later claimed not to believe himself, and refusing to explain why he thought people were scum - even to the point of stating that they weren't actually his scum reads.

 

Are you suggesting that I'm not following up on Sili as a potential scum suspect?  Do you think I should be doing more here?

 

I've been waiting to see your response here.  

 

So what do you think of Sili as a potential scum suspect?  Do you think he's a naughty pony?

[Yates]

Honest question: if someone manages to seem Town from early D1, and they keep it going, does that mean they can't be wolf?

 

I think, they still can be. But you'd have to be good.

Um. I've been nice and reasonable and not NKed before - like in Black Tower.  It happens.  But usually it happens when your reads are wrong or because the PR's out themselves and become obvious NK targets.

[Yates]

I like how you snipped my post and ducked my question to you.

 

So what do you think of Sili as a potential scum suspect?  Do you think he's a naughty pony?

Let me get caught up first. Then I have to reread his back and forth with JMM as promised last night. I'm on the split rail fence with maybe a hair more of a lean towards the greener side of the pasture. But this is a tentative lean that is absolutely subject to change upon further review.

 

So... stay tuned?

[Yates]

Maybe there are no wolves and the nk was random.

Are you serious?

 

This had been addressed already.

 

I quoted the OP that says we are looking for naughty ponIES - plural.

 

I feel like I'm reliving that "maybe there are no scum" argument with Kivam that drove me nuts.

[Niniel]

 

 

VC

 

Thane (1) - Clov

 

Sili (1) - Thane

 

Not voting: BFG, Cass, Tress, Yates, Sili

 

 

With 7 ponies alive it takes 4 to lynch. 

 

 

Deadline is Wednesday 9 PM CET. http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20150114T21&p0=292&msg=Deadline+D2

 

 

 

[Yates]

Are you suggesting that I'm not following up on Sili as a potential scum suspect?  Do you think I should be doing more here?

No. I never said that. I didn't even imply that.

 

Let me be as specific as possible.

 

- JMM is revealed as the NK and vanilla town

- Sili says he has no idea why scum would have thought JMM was a PR

- You ask him what I think the rest of us were thinking; "wasn't it obvious why?"

- You even quoted Thane expressing his belief that JMM was a Town PR

*This is the important part*

- Sili never answered your question AND YOU LET IT GO

 

Sure, you went on to challenge him on his opinion on game mechanics ["Maybe there's only one scum!" "Maybe Town has no PR's!"] but you never followed up with him about this particular topic in a way that I think would have satisfied you. Like, I asked him straight up in post 487. And followed up with posts 493, 495, 498, 503, 507... That's the sort of thing I was expecting to see from you. So I was wondering why I didn't. Make sense?

[Songstress]

 

Are you suggesting that I'm not following up on Sili as a potential scum suspect?  Do you think I should be doing more here?

No. I never said that. I didn't even imply that.

 

Let me be as specific as possible.

 

- JMM is revealed as the NK and vanilla town

- Sili says he has no idea why scum would have thought JMM was a PR

- You ask him what I think the rest of us were thinking; "wasn't it obvious why?"

- You even quoted Thane expressing his belief that JMM was a Town PR

*This is the important part*

- Sili never answered your question AND YOU LET IT GO

 

Sure, you went on to challenge him on his opinion on game mechanics ["Maybe there's only one scum!" "Maybe Town has no PR's!"] but you never followed up with him about this particular topic in a way that I think would have satisfied you. Like, I asked him straight up in post 487. And followed up with posts 493, 495, 498, 503, 507... That's the sort of thing I was expecting to see from you. So I was wondering why I didn't. Make sense?

 

 

Have I explained to your satisfaction?

[BFG]

Good evening :)

 

during lunch I wrote my thoughts on Day 1, I haven't read Day 2 yet... no internet at all at work so I've marked places where the notes I had didn't cover the detail I wanted and I need to ISO, but i'd rather catch up on the last 10 pages or so first.

[BFG]

quotes will be incoming once I've caught up. and formatting may be a mess since copy/pasted from notepad

[Yates]

Alright, Sili, I included some contextual stuff leading up to the conversation as well. Let me know if I'm missing anything...

 

 

i think jmm hasn't read the thread.

 

 

Yates who do u have down as scum? Ill know if ur lying probably.

By POE all of the scum are in you, Tress, BFG, and Thane.Cass is Town 100% of the time, here. I don't recall seeing Clov scum but this is a pretty solid Clov Town approach to the game. Thane hasn't contributed enough and Tress has a medical excuse to not be contributing. Lack of content players are hard to judge. I'd feel good lynching in that pool and investigating there as well.

 

Uh, bfg, thane, and I are putting out a lot of content. i would be lying if i said i haven't considered a bfg and thane team, but i wouldn't case them for their wim either.

 

Tress also has good content, or more than jmm anyway, so... not sure where you're going with this.

 

[FTR - I was right to keep JMM out of my POE. ]

I also find it ironic that you tried to wedge me in to "scum reads" when you SPECIFICALLY ASKED ME FOR POE and have recently come under fire for doing the exact same thing. Specifically, "not all suspects are leans."

 

But I digress...

 

I think Cass is definitely town, and I still like Yates to be town.  Between them and myself, RNGesus has about a 40% chance of hitting someone I'm not cool lynching.  Not great odds.

Like yates to be town?

 

Jmm is a good bet

let's' lynch jmm unless anyone has someone better

tress :/

 

jmm isn't even paying attention to the thread... he doesn't 'care'. last game he 'cared' even when mechanically clear. Why would he be paying less attention this time?

 

You're really sketching me out here.

i suggested jmm thought there were 3 scum to emphasize a point and catch him in a lie. i thought that was clear.

it might also get me modkilled >.>

 

i feel like i didn't word this as well as i could have so (ebwp):

 

@tress, i'll retract it. i hadn't read your list yet and reading in context might have changed my reaction. i'm too tired to tell to be frank, and i don't even know if it would have mattered in the end if i'm overreacting to every other post.

 

the reason i felt it was sketchy is i don't like people defending jmm. my gut finds it irksome, probably because i don't see a reason to keep him around and nothing here is reminiscent for me of his content in your game (no snark or stubbornness in this game). i keep thinking just one or two posts more, to get the right response and it never comes,  there's no point in trying.

-it's a better explanation now. it comes down to my thinking 'why would anyone want to lynch me instead of this other far scummier player who isn't contributing anything'. but you know i kind of read things out of sequence since i was on mobile and in the cold... so ya. probably nothing. maybe something.

 

don't know how someone could not want to lynch jmm over me but i'm really biased. haha. at least you made a readslist. *shrugs to self*.

 

i'm going for a hunch:

 

[v] jmm [/v]

 

Sili is feeling somewhat better for me, trying to explain and i see a hint of frustration which i saw him do as town before. Cass is putting out a lot of work, which indicates good Town Cass to me. Not feeling overly disturbed by either BFG, Yates or Tress...town to null with a paranoi edge to possible wolf among them. Dunno what to make of Clov.... null to scum. That's what i get.

The more I read back through this thread, the more I don't want to lynch Sili.  My impression each time I read through is more and more not-scum.  If he flips scum, I will tip my hat to him, but I doubt he will.  However, those of you with suspicions on him are justified; I can see where you're coming from, but I can't say I agree.

I'm going to say this once:

 

You will not be happy with the result if you lynch me.

you're so confusing jmm. should i be townreading you? i dunno.

should i yolo this away from jmm because of tone.

 

maybe.

 

you're so confusing jmm. should i be townreading you? i dunno.

By my play style?  Probably not.

 

T_T

i feel like a dingus

kay, im gonna yolo.

 

thane cfd.

 

[v]thane[/v]

 

running with it.

 

jmm, then tell us this: Who should we lynch? Deadline is soon, and i'm willing to listen

I'm leaning towards the no-lynch crowd for logical reasons.  

 

However, force me to make a lynch, and I'm going back to my list of current mafia suspects:

• Cass
• Tress
• Yates

Cass initially topped my list as far as suspicion went, but something does not feel right any more.  It probably has to do with a significant amount of more experienced people putting a good word in for her current play.  I would feel more comfortable lynching one of the other two.  I am pretty confident I've got one in those two, for overall tonal reasons and most of their post content has been rather neutral so far.

 

out of mild curiosity, why have you been largely absent until now?

Work and some evening activities gets me during the week, but trust me when I've said I've read every post multiple times.  I lurk a lot, and tend not to make too many posts unless someone directly asks a question or if I feel I've got something rather important to share.  I do throw out my thoughts at some point to show I'm actually reading, because I understand this is a hands-on game, so I try to put some out there instead of just lurking all the time.

good. i'll take your word for it then.

[v]No lynch[/v]

sounds good [v]no lynch[/v]

 

I left out commentary for now. Like I said; let me know if I'm missing anything.

[BFG]

Townish

 

 

Sili - ironically this has become one of the easiest reads - town. I still don't believe that Sili could maintain the level of involvement and engagement that he has this game if he was mafia. I appreciate that not everybody sees volume as a tell, but Sili has twice the posts of the next highest poster, and almost all have been game related (probably all if you include the ones I don't understand). Beyond that, he was the first to offer reads and has kept them updated constantly and the fact that as more data came in he was suspicious of the same people as me helps that read a lot. there are still a few things I want to check from his town game before I really 'lock' this in though.

 

 

 

 

 

Cass - On reread the paranoia sometimes comes across as sometimes overdone, But more importantly at this stage is the work done (probably the most out of everyone). I don't agree with all of her cases, in particular having read the early case on Clov, I'm left very confused as to why he was an early suspect, given that most of the WoT seems to be her agreeing with him. There are sections of the Sili case that I interpreted differently, but given Sili not reading it to respond, I don't know my interpretation of events is any better :/ I do find her reply to Sili after he said he'd reply to questions and not WoT a little disengenuous since the questions he was 'avoiding' were at the bottom of the WoT, but I can sympathise with the frustration of putting so much work into a case, to have it ignored. Still a strong town read for work done, and also does a good job of looking at everyone and is generally clear as to her opinions on each. Also like Tress said, If Cass is mafia I'm mostly happy to concede the game

 

 

 

 

 

Clov - Early Town read due to attention to detail and early game involvement. In particular I liked the early question of Cass as it showed that he was looking at everyone as suspects. There have only been a couple of things that concern me since. The tone in which he questioned me about tinfoil and Yates about pocketing (I have ONLY ever seen this referred to as mafia pocketing townies) seems different, and Yates response that you 'could' replace it with white knighting (again a term I generally associate with mafia white knighting townies for townie cred) looks bad. I don't want to get into a semantics discussion instead I'm curious about the change in, tone between asking me and Yates (given that his explanation of a town read of Yates is from after this). However the fact that he talked about it first instead of jumping to assumptions looks good. I'm also concerned by his arguments for No Lynch, but it's done and consistent with things he's said out of game so I guess it's null at best, and picking at this to much would be hypocritical :(

 

Something that might be of note is that he never really talks to Thane or Tress Day 1, and I still have some lingering confusion over our back and forth about the tinfoil - once the definition was cleared up, he seemed to be asking ahy I was asking Sili about town stances on people that he hadn't mentioned enough to assume they were out of null - given that this is extremely similar to what he was trying to do early on wrt Sili, Jmm and myself this seems like an odd train of thought. Still town read, but I want to clear up the 'tinfoil' discussion.

 

 

 

Then it gets harder :/