[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[WWWwombat]

I'm bored.  I think we should CFD someone.

[Sili Quirrels]

cfd cass?

[Darthe]

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:20 PM, WWWwombat said:

    Darthe

    Kivam

    DreadPirateRoberts

    Yates.

    Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra

    Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx)

    Andrej

    Krakalakachkn

    Thane Vakarian

    Tress

    TheRagnarok

    Stelio Kontos

    dicetosser1

    Sili Quirrels

    WWWwombat

    Arsis Pralaya

    Hallia

    Cass (Mentored by manbat)

    Leelou

    Despot / csarmi Hydra

This.  This is a good list.

 

I believe you.

[Sili Quirrels]

but that's cruel.

 

let's not.

[hazelkrs1]

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:20 PM, WWWwombat said:

    Darthe

    Kivam

    DreadPirateRoberts

    Yates.

    Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra

    Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx)

    Andrej

    Krakalakachkn

    Thane Vakarian

    Tress

    TheRagnarok

    Stelio Kontos

    dicetosser1

    Sili Quirrels

    WWWwombat

    Arsis Pralaya

    Hallia

    Cass (Mentored by manbat)

    Leelou

    Despot / csarmi Hydra

 

Were you legit flip flopping the colors for this reads list Wombat? Like blue = scum, red = town?

 

Cause if not, these reads are legit just prob the worst I've ever seen from you at this point of the game

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:25 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:00 PM, Kivam said:

 DESlami says Krak is "jumping at straws" - agreed, though I'd say more "grasping" than "jumping" (why would one jump at a straw?).

 

lmfao!

 

 

[Tommyrod]

[hazelkrs1]

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:27 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:20 PM, WWWwombat said:

    Darthe

    Kivam

    DreadPirateRoberts

    Yates.

    Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra

    Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx)

    Andrej

    Krakalakachkn

    Thane Vakarian

    Tress

    TheRagnarok

    Stelio Kontos

    dicetosser1

    Sili Quirrels

    WWWwombat

    Arsis Pralaya

    Hallia

    Cass (Mentored by manbat)

    Leelou

    Despot / csarmi Hydra

This.  This is a good list.

 

I believe you.

 

 

When Darthe is saying this is a good reads list, you KNOW it's all kinds of jacked up. Holy God.

[Darthe]

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:24 PM, Despothera said:

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 2:02 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:57 PM, Despothera said:

I also think that honestly if we WERE going to go down the "info lynch only" route on D1, Darthe would be a better choice. He's been mentioned by a bunch of players, and he's had some direct interaction with some of the "louder" players or other people in the limelight

By that logic hydra's should be better D1 lynches because the different members allow for subsets of interactions.  Also BS that you try to find different reasons to push votes onto me every so often.

 

 

Okay Mynd

 

And how is it BS? You've been one of my top scum reads ALL GAME. How is it weird for me to try and push votes onto one of my top scum reads???

 

 

 

It's not BS to push a scum read.  It's BS to push a read, drop it, then come back to it with a different angle every so often. 

[WWWwombat]

DPR is town imo.

 

*checks reads*

 

Yeah, he's lock clear.

[hazelkrs1]

I'll be honest- crap tons of people continuously ignoring the LEGIT big time scumtells DPR keeps dropping all over the place, and ignoring me pointing them out, is making me just not want to put that much effort into this game anymore.

 

Sili not a great lynch anymore imo. I think he's likely a townie here in fact.

 

Pray not a great lynch anymore imo. He claimed VT already, in his position making his lynch MUCH more likely on D1 (not a good strat for scum).

 

Why not, you know, go after someone who actually looks scummy here?

 

[v]##DPR for Scum President 2016[/v]

[Darthe]

Des took that as serious.  Oh gawd.

[Yates]

  On 11/13/2014 at 2:16 PM, Leelou said:

Three peeps: Darthe, Pral and Tress (mostly because I don't really remember much about her)

Well, I trust you with a gun more than AJ.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:00 PM, Kivam said:

FWIW, I've never seen this play before but its implications are obvious, and it's hard to imagine Leelou doesn't see them even if it's new to her as well.  Moderate ping.

I think she gets it - but doesn't support it. My point in the post where I quoted Des and Leelou is that Des is a gambiter. So him acting like that would be negative utility didn't feel genuine. Leelou doesn't like gambits. At all. So I'm inclined to believe her when she says she doesn't like it. I don't think that's the same as saying she doesn't understand it.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 2:16 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

It might do some good to mention the way cass is reading people reminds me of what I did in my first game.

It does help. Cass is hurting my feelings by not responding to me - especially after she said that not responding to people is a scum tell - so it gives me perspective, at least.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:05 PM, Darthe said:

I've known you for a long time and still occasionally have trouble reading you but IMO you're at like 61% town atm.

What would I have to do to achieve the 82% Town range you assigned me after I flipped Town last game?   

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:11 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Take your time. You're probably waiting to see how a few things turn out.

Nope. I was trying to engage Cass earlier for the short time I had before getting ready for work. Got caught up in other fruitfull conversations. Then DM went down. Guess you'll just have to wait...

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:11 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Out of that entire post, this is what you pick out. Noted.

I have noted that you noted me. I have also noted that you noted my note in one of your Cass notes. So noted.

 

God damnit, Des!

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:24 PM, Despothera said:

Anyone else find it ironic that DPR twice called me out for "shaming" other players, yet here he is, in an extremely condascending way, implying that Cass is being used as a puppet and isn't even writing her own posts or something?

*I* wanted to be the one to bring this up! He is both shaming AND discrediting here. PLUS - and you missed this part - he is also using the "coached" tell, a la Darthe. I had noted that you would probably flip your lid when you saw that response.

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:32 PM, Despothera said:

I'll be honest- crap tons of people continuously ignoring the LEGIT big time scumtells DPR keeps dropping all over the place, and ignoring me pointing them out, is making me just not want to put that much effort into this game anymore.

 

Sili not a great lynch anymore imo. I think he's likely a townie here in fact.

 

Pray not a great lynch anymore imo. He claimed VT already, in his position making his lynch MUCH more likely on D1 (not a good strat for scum).

 

Why not, you know, go after someone who actually looks scummy here?

 

[v]##DPR for Scum President 2016[/v]

 

AHA!  Knew there was a reason I had you in my LOCK WILVES!

[hazelkrs1]

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:31 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:24 PM, Despothera said:

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 2:02 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:57 PM, Despothera said:

I also think that honestly if we WERE going to go down the "info lynch only" route on D1, Darthe would be a better choice. He's been mentioned by a bunch of players, and he's had some direct interaction with some of the "louder" players or other people in the limelight

By that logic hydra's should be better D1 lynches because the different members allow for subsets of interactions.  Also BS that you try to find different reasons to push votes onto me every so often.

 

 

Okay Mynd

 

And how is it BS? You've been one of my top scum reads ALL GAME. How is it weird for me to try and push votes onto one of my top scum reads???

 

 

 

It's not BS to push a scum read.  It's BS to push a read, drop it, then come back to it with a different angle every so often. 

 

 

I never dropped you as a scumread tho...

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:31 PM, WWWwombat said:

DPR is town imo.

 

*checks reads*

 

Yeah, he's lock clear.

 

Play better then, cause he's far from lock clear.

 

Pithy comments aside Wombat, TELL ME why you actually think he looks townie here. I'd like specifics too, whether it's quotes or specific stuff DPR has done that makes him more likely to be town.

[Kivam]

Was mid recap when DM went down.  Likely don't have time to finish them before deadline, so I'm just going to reply to a few direct questions from Cass and Andrej, then actually work for a bit; will post more if I can.

 

  Quote

 

Basically after a review, I can't help but feel that Kiv really could be scum. Like DPR, his posts in general are well placed in the context of the game, but they also have a great mix of what I'm interpreting as truth and then a twist of scum. Kiv has been doing a great job of 'buddying' me in early threads and providing distraction (especially from the heat on Yates and DPR) as well as adding in general fluff along the way. I still like his recap posts and am definitely learning useful things through them , but... they’re not really ADVANCING the game, in a sense. And it makes me wonder if this is then mostly for distraction? (Don't stop them though, Kiv, they're pretty handy for catch-ups).

 

But I've been considering that posting these recap posts would make a handy tactic from a scum view too, since it has the advantage of winning emotional thanks points from Town struggling to keep up with the flow (worked on me) and it has the advantage of being able to carefully push a bias, all with that emotional thanks on board. This strikes me as important.

 

 

Of course I could be scum, and of course the recaps are very advantageous for me as scum - like I said earlier, I play my scum and town games exactly the same way; I do recaps in each, push in each, info-lynch Day 1 in each (though I'd really rather not do that as scum, it would be way too obvious a tell to avoid it).  So you're on the right track here, thought process wise (though the conclusion happens to be off in this particular game): DO NOT TRUST ME. EVER. (yes, even when I tell you not to trust me).  Or anyone else.  Play your best game, make your best choices, but make sure that it's because they're your choices, and not just agreeing with someone you trust.

 

Back to a bit of general mafia teaching: You need to take your insight on scum play to the next level.  Do you know what a WIFOM is?  Comes from the best scene in movie history, and stands for "Wine In Front of Me":

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9TRMQwMNnY

 

Now think through what a talented scum player would do with recaps if they expect to be caught as scum and have the recaps re-read in that light.

 

Like I said, posting recaps is a null tell for me, because I do it regardless of alignment given their utility to me in either alignment.  Use them but don't trust them, and if you are ever playing a game as town when I've flipped scum, ignore them completely rather than trying to mine them for clues - because when I'm scum, I poison both the glasses

 

  Quote

 

Also, for some reason (similar to DPR) - although I feel I've been fairly active and contributing some thoughtful stuff (perhaps this is just because my brain has been going a million miles an hour on no sleep for the last however many days?),  there’s very little mentioned in Kiv's recaps about my contributions. He comments about me showing up and disappearing, and comments on things other players have said about me (and what he says in relation to these things IS true), but, after the initial buddying tone, REAL thoughts on me and what I've been putting down are missing although they're there for other players. Seems like basic misdirection.

 

Why is this commentary missing? Is it because I’m close to being on the money, and therefore safer to avoid?

 

LOL - no.  It's because I'm only up to page 37 in the recaps, and you hadn't posted any content yet.  Right now, you're playing like either a very good new mafia player as town or well coached/naturally talented scum; you are coming off as town trying hard to piece the puzzle together, which means I'll treat your thoughts the same way I'm suggesting you treat mine: I ain't gonna trust them, but I'll sure as hell use them.

 

  Quote

 

The tissues were not. They sparked my curiosity.

 

Heh.  I strongly dislike emo play for many of the same reasons I hate arguing politics with people who turn everything into a personal slap fight; it kills the debate, does nothing to advance the ball, and if left unchecked, takes all the fun out of the exercise.  (Side note - come join the convos on the D&D board ... you seem like you'd both enjoy it and be a valuable contributor).  So I tend to come down hard on it when it happens.

 

  Quote

 

Why is lynching inactive people (Praya) a better idea than going with your gut against Sili?

 

1) It's not (hence my vote on Sili after re-reviewing the recaps);

 

2) It's not about lynching an inactive, it's about lynching Arsis (who Praya replaced and who is at the heart of nearly as many interaction-webs as Sili, including some with Sili).  That Praya is relatively inactive means that if he's town, he's probably not going to be much of a contributor anyway, which mitigates the loss if he flips town.

 

  Quote

 

How did you go with your recaps - any further thoughts here?

 

Basically, pulled them together in one post, then ran "highlight all" searches in Firefox on poster names to start to map out connections.  That's what confirmed Sili for me as the top info lynch, followed by Arsis/Thane/Darthe in roughly equal proportion through pg 34.

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:15 PM, Cass said:

 

*Caught up to page 65, Post #1290**

 

RECAP OF THOUGHTS / CURRENT LEAN ON KIV (as potential SCUM).

 

Basically after a review, I can't help but feel that Kiv really could be scum. Like DPR, his posts in general are well placed in the context of the game, but they also have a great mix of what I'm interpreting as truth and then a twist of scum. Kiv has been doing a great job of 'buddying' me in early threads and providing distraction (especially from the heat on Yates and DPR) as well as adding in general fluff along the way. I still like his recap posts and am definitely learning useful things through them , but... they’re not really ADVANCING the game, in a sense. And it makes me wonder if this is then mostly for distraction? (Don't stop them though, Kiv, they're pretty handy for catch-ups).

 

But I've been considering that posting these recap posts would make a handy tactic from a scum view too, since it has the advantage of winning emotional thanks points from Town struggling to keep up with the flow (worked on me) and it has the advantage of being able to carefully push a bias, all with that emotional thanks on board. This strikes me as important.  

 

Also, for some reason (similar to DPR) - although I feel I've been fairly active and contributing some thoughtful stuff (perhaps this is just because my brain has been going a million miles an hour on no sleep for the last however many days?),  there’s very little mentioned in Kiv's recaps about my contributions. He comments about me showing up and disappearing, and comments on things other players have said about me (and what he says in relation to these things IS true), but, after the initial buddying tone, REAL thoughts on me and what I've been putting down are missing although they're there for other players. Seems like basic misdirection.

 

Why is this commentary missing? Is it because I’m close to being on the money, and therefore safer to avoid?

 

I'm not asking this just because I’m personally curious -I am curious, but it's more than that, it’s mostly because I’m a noob and therefore naturally a ‘wild card’ to the game. In my mind, it would make sense that an experienced player, whose game play relies a lot on recapping and offering opinions on things would have had more to say about the way a newbie played and where they had them in their reads – at least as often as they did for other members of the game, but quite possibly more.

 

Example of most recent recap, including questions to me at the top/in the buddying stage, and then (where evaluation of my input is concerned) nothing of value thereafter, is here.

 

On top of this, like DPR, Kiv seems to be avoiding interacting with people that are calling his allegiance into question. Example of post from AJ here. 

 

It smells like scum 

 

@KIV / EVERYONE -  Thoughts?/Rebuttals?

 

 

Some of the random things that made me suspicious. (Thoughts and questions to be answered included). Kiv, please weigh in? I think your answers to some of these are also important to the Town... 

 

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 9:05 PM, Kivam said:

FYI, there are a few of us basically soaking up all the oxygen right now, and I am getting very, very leery of our coasters

Coming directly after a post where you make light of random nothings and potentially go for an emotional appeal to Town by posting a pic of tissues (link)… This looked odd and has a huge possibility of Wolf to me. Because, while on the surface it is valid (I agree people, POST!), PRACTICALLY speaking, I feel like it was ultimately an attempt to change the subject. I agree with the stuff you said to Des at the end of 1101 (same link as above), but you would have said that playing either way, and that is very consistent with what I've seen of your play so far so it doesn't really worry me. The tissues were not. They sparked my curiosity. And then a convenient change of subject? It's too early for me to tackle you but ... I think I'm pinging you now too...

 

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 10:36 PM, Kivam said:

This is going to sound absurd but I need to reread my recaps before giving a solid answer.  My gut (which isn't so much my gut as my memory of who was defended/defending/shifted/shifting) says Sili, but it could also be Darthe or Arsis (Praya now, but since he hasn't bothered playing, it's all Arsis [in fact, if it's a close call after re-read, I may be amenable to a policy-lynch of Praya given: (a) suspicions generated by Arsis; (b) the half-remembered connections; and © the odds that if he's a townie, we wouldn't be losing anything valuable anyway]).  Other info targets would be Yates and Des, but they are lower on my list, Yates because he's probably been dealt with by too many players to provide much of a focus and Des because of the same thought process in the opposite direction; he's so all over the place that there are likely links/breadcrumbs to half the game in his posts.

Why is lynching inactive people (Praya) a better idea than going with your gut against Sili?

 

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 10:39 PM, Kivam said:

Crap - the problem with responding from memory and forgetting the player list.  Thane.  Thane probably slots in very high on the "info lynch" scale given the focus on him earlier and the responses to it.  Might even be the number 1 info play.  Really have to review those recaps once I get home.

The post seemed meh. Could be that I'm wondering if you and DPR are actually the number 1 play..? Don't answer that, I know it could. How did you go with your recaps - any further thoughts here?

 

 

[Sili Quirrels]

when wombat says he's double-checking his list it's a joke, because it's what scum do.

 

...

 

which is a load of wifom that i don't like. day 3, i'm voting him if he's still alive.

[Darthe]

Clearly you need to flip town to get that high Yates.

 

).) Not one of my finer moments.

 

 

@Des, you've dropped talking about me for _______(insert reason I'm scum here)_______ several times and then later I'll pop back into a WoT with a new reason and you start pushing me again.  Why would I see that as anything other than contrived?  Would you in my position?  I doubt it.

[hazelkrs1]

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:32 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:24 PM, Despothera said:

Anyone else find it ironic that DPR twice called me out for "shaming" other players, yet here he is, in an extremely condascending way, implying that Cass is being used as a puppet and isn't even writing her own posts or something?

*I* wanted to be the one to bring this up! He is both shaming AND discrediting here. PLUS - and you missed this part - he is also using the "coached" tell, a la Darthe. I had noted that you would probably flip your lid when you saw that response.

 

 

Well I forgot to point that out so I'm glad you did hehe

 

Of course now DPR is going to say there's an even more obvious connection between us

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:33 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:32 PM, Despothera said:

I'll be honest- crap tons of people continuously ignoring the LEGIT big time scumtells DPR keeps dropping all over the place, and ignoring me pointing them out, is making me just not want to put that much effort into this game anymore.

 

Sili not a great lynch anymore imo. I think he's likely a townie here in fact.

 

Pray not a great lynch anymore imo. He claimed VT already, in his position making his lynch MUCH more likely on D1 (not a good strat for scum).

 

Why not, you know, go after someone who actually looks scummy here?

 

[v]##DPR for Scum President 2016[/v]

 

AHA!  Knew there was a reason I had you in my LOCK WILVES!

 

 

Okay just gonna ignore you for a while, since you seem to think it's funny to be purposefully unhelpful to the scumhunt, when EOD is today. Nice job Wombat.

[Yates]

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:29 PM, Despothera said:

When Darthe is saying this is a good reads list, you KNOW it's all kinds of jacked up. Holy God.

Wombat's post? Clearly sarcasm. In response to Darthe. I got that immediately.

 

DPR's post about "really really Town?" Not so much. I would have given him a little more benefit of the doubt if Kivam hadn't handed him that shovel to help dig himself out.

[WWWwombat]

1.  Put roster into random.org

2.  Click "Again!" until Wombat is in red range

3.  ????

4.  Profit!

[Thane Vakarian]

Wombat did post a good list, but i'd make some changes to it, like this: 

 

Likely Town

Thane Vakarian

WWWwombat

Andrej

Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx)

Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra

Yates

Cass (Mentored by manbat)

Leelou

Despot / csarmi Hydra

 

Hesitating

DreadPirateRoberts

Kivam

Stelio Kontos

dicetosser1

TheRagnarok

Darthe

 

Likely Wolf

Krakalakachkn
Sili Quirrels

Arsis Pralaya

Hallia

Null
Tress

 

This is about as good a list as i'm able to do right now. Still at work, and it's quite busy. Am reading thread though.

[WWWwombat]

Darthe, is there a psychological phenomonon that involves perseveration, splitting, and loss of humor?

[Cass]

Yates!

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 11:06 AM, Yates. said:

Cass - you're here. I'm here. Let's have a real time conversation? If you are thinking about voting me, and you are claiming it's because of the Seer Cover, and you are claiming to have read everyone's explanations, then I'd like to know if there's something else that's bothering you because THAT shouldn't be it.

Cheers.

*So, you're saying you're not actually the Seer??? Well, phew! Now if I vote you out, even if you end up being Town, knowing that is kinda a relief 

 

 

Also. Yey! I found you! (It was harder than it should be - I STILL can't actually figure out ISOs).

 

Ok, let's do this - and even if I've missed you and you're already off at work, I look forward to your reply. I'm going to try to get to bed in the next hour tonight - Don't hate me, it will be the first time before 3 or 4 am since I signed up for this thread  .

 

First - Dude, I haven't been actively ignoring you on purpose or as a ploy. I've been working my little butt off getting all of those other posts up so that what I'd offered to the Town had actually caught up with my brain.This catchup thing is killing me, I have no idea how anybody does it thoroughly and still manages to talk in real time too. My 'up to' notes at the top of my posts meant that I had scanned through and made mental notes about what to check out or comment on next. That's all, no need to get your knickers in a knot, posting sad pandas and crying gifs, even though they were slightly entertaining  . 

 

In answer to the questions in your post.

 

i) I am not claiming to have read everyone's explanations. I'm not that stupid, and I'm gonna be the first one to put my hand up and say I'm definitely missing stuff in this thread! That's why I keep asking for everyone's input, repeatedly.

 

ii) I agree that my concern over you claiming Seer/Providing Seer Cover so early in the game is not enough to confirm that you are scum. I never said it was. I said it concerned me a little, because it didn't make sense to me. I thought I'd explained clearly why I thought so along the line, but maybe I didn't. Either way, here's a direct copy of the notes page I was using at the time. That should clear up any confusion. NB to anyone planning on reading that - My 'Scummiest Reads' have changed since there. See post here for current thoughts.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I asked two questions:

 

a) Is it usual for Yates to provide such OPEN Seer 'cover'?

b) How plausible is it (especially for those who have caught up and may have examples either way) that Yates may have been a Wolf posting ‘cover’ in the hopes of initiating other ‘peaks’/trying to find the Seer?

 

 

Csarmi answered the questions. Short and to the point. Yes and plausible.

 

Sili on the other hand, explained to me his take on Seer theory/made excuses for Yate’s claim. On two separate, separated posts. He seemed to be thinking about it too much. The theory on seer cover seemed fine. His excuses for Yates providing seer cover at a time I found awkward and wolfish were not.

Summary of his (Sili's) defence when questioned: (#823/834): Initiating seer cover is effective enough to gain Town cred (by covering the Seer, encouraging further ‘seer’ posts and making it ‘safer’ for the real Seer to post) but not effective enough at doing exactly that to “bear fruit” for the Wolves?

 

Followed by (post #840)

 

“A lot of players here have played in at least one game with a seer, so most should know better”, almost immediately contradicted by “If I were wolfpack I’d gamble that the real seer would be confused since he isn’t familiar with the strategy.”

 

Not cricket. Supposition

 

DPR jumps in and picks up what I’m putting down. 924, 927, 933 and 939  Points out stuff I didn’t read that further fuel my suspicions of Sili/Yates.

 

Yates appears, posts concisely, quoting my questions, but then mis-answers, centers everything on explaining the basics of Seer theory instead of responding to my questions on his motives.

 

Wwwwwombat #837 – same thing. BUT THEN BACKTRACKS LAST LINE, POST # 904???? 909 keeps goin… 929 Valid, but ? motive ? distancing because Yates and Sili getting heat?

DPR says DES did too.

 

?Scum team Sili, Yates, Wombat, Des.

 

 

 

What bothers me is not just that you hard-claimed Seer early. What bothers me is I find the idea of Town hard-claiming Seer at the point you did possibly less likely than the idea of Scum hard-claiming Seer at the point you did. You follow?

In addition to this:
 

- When questioned about why you did something that I thought may make you more likely to be scum, you didn't give me an explanation for your motives. You just rehashed some general theory that I thought it was obvious I already knew. Another possible point in the direction of Team Scum, under the banner of quoting half-truths and using them for misdirection.

 

In addition to:

- The fact that Sili looked/s rather scummy to me, and he seemed to be defending you, using tactics that were much the same.

 

In addition to:

- The fact that DPR mentioned a heap of stuff that made a lot of sense to me at the time, before I suspected gave a lot of value to the thought he could be wolf.

 

 

 

*Mindsplodes* 

[v] ##Sili [/v]

 

 

 

Yates - Thank you for posting this request to chat. Rereading to answer your questions has raised possibilities I had not considered  . Sili now ranks a good bit higher on my red scale than you. Enough so that I'm actually casting a vote, when I didn't think I would.

 

I would still appreciate answers to my concerns in case of future votes, though, because obviously you could still be part of scum team, working with Sili, and this doesn't make you clear of my suspicions relating directly to you. 

 

 

*Collapses*

[hazelkrs1]

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:35 PM, Kivam said:

Like I said, posting recaps is a null tell for me, because I do it regardless of alignment given their utility to me in either alignment.  Use them but don't trust them, and if you are ever playing a game as town when I've flipped scum, ignore them completely rather than trying to mine them for clues - because when I'm scum, I poison both the glasses

 

Anyone else think this is Kivam kinda freudian slipping here? And discouraging people from rereading him afterwards if he does flip scum as well?

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:36 PM, Darthe said:

@Des, you've dropped talking about me for _______(insert reason I'm scum here)_______ several times and then later I'll pop back into a WoT with a new reason and you start pushing me again.  Why would I see that as anything other than contrived?  Would you in my position?  I doubt it.

 

I stopped talking about you as much because you weren't posting as much anyways, and I found a new chewtoy in scum!DPR.

 

You never dropped from my scum reads list, and no, I don't think there's ANYTHING you can find "contrived" about my handling of you as a scumread.

[DPR]

General reads so far, in mod provided order:

 

Andrej - Seems somewhat defensive for no real reason. Null 

 

Cass (Mentored by man bat) - Feels like she's being manipulated by a more experienced player. Suspect

 

Darthe - Still seems tired. Odd plays and comments. Suspect

 

Despot / csarmi Hydra - Straight up, a lot of mods would yellow card his behavior. He's made blatant errors in representing facts, sunk to pulling on personal strings for support and offered to self-vote, even though he's a Hydra. He's has dominated D1 with his obsession and painting of me. Out of control and outside the boundaries of the spirit of the game. 

 

dicetosser1 - Very little contribution. Null

 

DreadPirateRoberts

 

Hallia - Unacceptable low post count.

 

Kivam - Employing proven logic and documenting his opinions in a list. I'm much more comfortable with this play style than sucking a finger and holding it up to the breeze. Null

 

Krakalakachkn - No strong read yet. Null

 

Leelou - Could be more active. Null

 

Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx) - I'm comfortable with her logic and points. If she holds to them, they'll benefit the town. Null

 

Arsis Pralaya - Unacceptable low post count.

 

Sili Quirrels - Did not see the point of the irrational exchange we shared unless it was to further a teammates desire to drag me down. Suspect.

 

Stelio Kontos - Very little contribution. Null

 

Thane Vakarian - Has posted quite a bit and left no particular impression on me. Null

 

TheRagnarok - Third post in the game (and the first game related) he uses to attack me with no point or evidence. Suspect

 

Tress - unacceptable low post count

 

Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra - Playing carefully and not ruffling feathers. Not sticking any necks out to make points. Suspect

 

WWWwombat - smugbat is often scumbag. The flip-flopping and logic shifts are not comforting either. Suspect

 

Yates - Has an agenda. The question is, for which side? Suspect