[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Yates]

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:47 PM, Pralaya said:

Caught up to 30 pages, that's all. That is about as much I could manage.

In 2 days, Pral? Come on. Perhaps you should find a different hobby/internet addiction that is less time consuming.

[hazelkrs1]

Caught up

 

Was just gonna say I supported a Pray lynch over a Sili one, but after his VT claim I actually think we should move in a different direction. Already got a claim out of Pray, so if something comes up that proves him a LLL, then we got a rock solid lynch later

 

As for Sili, his immediate reaction to some votes on him wasn't great a few pages back, but A) for him that's not really that alignment indicative and B) when he collected his thoughts calmly and explained his frustration it looked very townie to me.

 

So aside from the associative tells I have on him, I wouldn't really prefer we lynch him today

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 7:12 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 7:04 AM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 4:55 AM, Kivam said:

After reading through those recaps, Sili is the best information lynch, IMO.  The Sili-Darthe-Andrej interaction in the teen pages is rich in data to mine, especially when Sili votes Wombat (triggers an attack by VerBarm and a defense by Leelou).  So is the Sili-Arsis-Darthe-DesLami dustup (re coaching) in the late teens to the mid-twenties.  Also connections to Yates, Thane, and myself.  He's at the center of a lot of tangles, and that "Andrej is suspicious so vote Wombat" interaction, plus his immediate flight from that when he's called on it, has me thinking his play is more likely scum badly faking town than town badly playing town, which means the info could be very useful (if Sili is scum, he doesn't seem like the type of player who would have left a bunch of false trails).

 

The interesting thing, to me, is that I started pushing Sili on a deliberately BS case to see if anyone opportunistically followed along, but the reaction, and the reread, has actually convinced me that he's the best lynch for the day (at least through page 34).

 

Just got through p. 21.  I see what you're saying about the coaching dust-up.  Also, a lot of Sili's pushes up to 21 feel like him trying to lay false trails.  On reread, Darthe actually looks pretty good up to 21.

 

It could be, if I was an idiot, but they probably aren't. this isn't my first rodeo around these parts, and i wouldn't play scum like i was going to lose.

 

 

Well, seeing as you were acting like your death was imminent on early D1 in a deadline game, I'd say you were making pretty illogical plays regardless of alignment, so this doesn't hold water for me.

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:58 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

Two games ago, on tmf, i fake claimed a bodyguard role because tom targeted me with a claimed day shot. I was a gladiator, had no idea why his supposed shot didn't work, but if people thought i was a bodyguard then having been shot they would think i was vanilla, more or less.

 

It made sense.

 

Tinfoiling ensued though, and when i tried to simplify the situation by revealing my real role, people pointed fingers and accused me of being scum for lying. There was no deeper substance to the argument, so I gave up and used gladiator.

 

A couple days later Despot tunneled me for a cycle because of confirmation bias and inane logic. Whenever I made a point that was village-like people discounted it, which left me essentially powerless and forced to endure constant ridicule for bad play. I wasn't given a second chance, and the stress built up until I vented a couple times and floated through the rest of the day.

 

Point is I'm still learning how to deal with being a lead wagon, and having been bigoted to death, lynched by a ventriloquist, and tunneled by despot and dm, I've learned little except paranoia and knee jerk reactions.

 

So which is it?  Are your actions too crazy to be scum or are they just products of your environment?  You can't have it both ways.

[Pralaya]

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:50 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:47 PM, Pralaya said:

Caught up to 30 pages, that's all. That is about as much I could manage.

In 2 days, Pral? Come on. Perhaps you should find a different hobby/internet addiction that is less time consuming.

 

 

1.5 days. Saw that i am replacing yesterday morning. 20 pages per day is my usual recap rate. I catch up around 10-15 by tonight. 

[Darthe]

Me, cause morning.  Nicole works first shift and I work second so I get up to see her in the morning.

 

I'm utterly unsurprised to see Des following his beliefs over any semblance of logic.  However, I do have to give some merit to the arguments made against DPR.  I don't know if it's rust or him beating the grass but DPR has made a few off statements.  To be more precise, I see that whole thing degenerating from DPR sniping Des and Des not knowing how to handle that so he went #FULLDES.   It's a fairly ridiculous D1 argument and not one I think is going to come to fruition today.

[WWWwombat]

For Cass:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 10:07 PM, Cass said:

I've given my reasons for the Yates and Sili combo above, Wombat is a little in the same boat. There was potentially something about posts his posts 837, 904 and 909. #929 I had as 'Valid, but the motive could be distancing because Yates and Sili are being locked/targeted'.

 

This is all just supposition and 'watching' for me at this point, which is why I haven't voted. And, (?unfortunately) I'll have to admit here that I'm including Des mostly because DPR did too. This isn't smart when I haven't finished rereading DPR (especially in the context of Kiv) but there you go. My current strongest scum reads are out there now.

 

See y'all 'soon'.

[hazelkrs1]

I also found it kind of interesting that in Kivam's post about Sili being an info lynch, the vast majority of it talked about if Sili flipped scum. Basically his only observations if Sili flipped town was that he'd feel better about AJ

 

However I feel a town flip on Sili would make DPR look REALLY bad imo for the way he soft pushed Sili, misrepped him, then later forgot the context in which he originally fos'd him, then continuously evaded direct questions from him

 

Again, yall prob just think this is crazy ol Despot jumping at shadows, but I find Kivam leaving out this piece of evidence to be supportive of those two being scum together

[hazelkrs1]

I also think that honestly if we WERE going to go down the "info lynch only" route on D1, Darthe would be a better choice. He's been mentioned by a bunch of players, and he's had some direct interaction with some of the "louder" players or other people in the limelight

[Yates]

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:54 PM, Despothera said:

Again, yall prob just think this is crazy ol Despot jumping at shadows, but I find Kivam leaving out this piece of evidence to be supportive of those two being scum together

Nope. I'm picking up what you're laying down.

 

I'm just less inclined to demotivate Pral to do his catch up post BEFORE deadline. He's promising more stuff "by tonight." But I don't know if that means India "tonight" or us "tonight." And either way, I think it would be after deadline. Screw that noise.

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:52 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 7:12 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 7:04 AM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 4:55 AM, Kivam said:

After reading through those recaps, Sili is the best information lynch, IMO.  The Sili-Darthe-Andrej interaction in the teen pages is rich in data to mine, especially when Sili votes Wombat (triggers an attack by VerBarm and a defense by Leelou).  So is the Sili-Arsis-Darthe-DesLami dustup (re coaching) in the late teens to the mid-twenties.  Also connections to Yates, Thane, and myself.  He's at the center of a lot of tangles, and that "Andrej is suspicious so vote Wombat" interaction, plus his immediate flight from that when he's called on it, has me thinking his play is more likely scum badly faking town than town badly playing town, which means the info could be very useful (if Sili is scum, he doesn't seem like the type of player who would have left a bunch of false trails).

 

The interesting thing, to me, is that I started pushing Sili on a deliberately BS case to see if anyone opportunistically followed along, but the reaction, and the reread, has actually convinced me that he's the best lynch for the day (at least through page 34).

 

Just got through p. 21.  I see what you're saying about the coaching dust-up.  Also, a lot of Sili's pushes up to 21 feel like him trying to lay false trails.  On reread, Darthe actually looks pretty good up to 21.

 

It could be, if I was an idiot, but they probably aren't. this isn't my first rodeo around these parts, and i wouldn't play scum like i was going to lose.

 

 

Well, seeing as you were acting like your death was imminent on early D1 in a deadline game, I'd say you were making pretty illogical plays regardless of alignment, so this doesn't hold water for me.

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:58 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

Two games ago, on tmf, i fake claimed a bodyguard role because tom targeted me with a claimed day shot. I was a gladiator, had no idea why his supposed shot didn't work, but if people thought i was a bodyguard then having been shot they would think i was vanilla, more or less.

 

It made sense.

 

Tinfoiling ensued though, and when i tried to simplify the situation by revealing my real role, people pointed fingers and accused me of being scum for lying. There was no deeper substance to the argument, so I gave up and used gladiator.

 

A couple days later Despot tunneled me for a cycle because of confirmation bias and inane logic. Whenever I made a point that was village-like people discounted it, which left me essentially powerless and forced to endure constant ridicule for bad play. I wasn't given a second chance, and the stress built up until I vented a couple times and floated through the rest of the day.

 

Point is I'm still learning how to deal with being a lead wagon, and having been bigoted to death, lynched by a ventriloquist, and tunneled by despot and dm, I've learned little except paranoia and knee jerk reactions.

 

So which is it?  Are your actions too crazy to be scum or are they just products of your environment?  You can't have it both ways.

 

They aren't mutually exclusive. I know when I'm being deceitful I'm the sort who considers the lay of the land, so my paranoia would be less obvious.

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 10:56 AM, Cass said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 2:28 AM, WWWwombat said:

I'm bored.  Let's see what this does.

 

[v]##DPR[/v]

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:16 AM, Andrej said:

##Unvote

 

[v]##Kivam[/v]

 

Let's rustle some jimmies then. I'll read up later.

 

@EVERYBODY

I am torn here. Both of these players are now in my sights as scum (explanations coming). 

 

I want to start voting scum.

 

I'm scared to start with either of these, and I was leaning towards pushing a vote for Yates instead. 

 

 

@WOMBT and @AJ 

Instant reaction to these posts was "Yey!! They're on the same page as me! - +1 !"  But, I have to be wary about the fact that this happened... are you two working in cahoots as scum, throwing out these conflicting votes that probably won't gain traction due to people being scared, or are you really that convinced at this point, and that brave? I'm about to post up my thoughts on both DPR and Kiv - would you guys be able to do the same?

 

 

I ain't scum.  Don't know about AJ, but he looks in his town range to me so far.  As for Kivam, I have the read that I usually have on Kivam.  I think he's probably town, but I have the creeping suspicion that he could easily be scum pulling the wool over my eyes.  Thing is, that's pretty much what I always think of Kivam, so I have no idea what he is right now.  Flips might help a bit.  As for DPR, I think he's been pushing some illogical and scummy agendas even for himself and I don't like it.  I'm by no means sure about him as, in my experience, DPR is a very scummy player regardless of alignment, but I really don't like a lot of his play so far.

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:58 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

They aren't mutually exclusive. I know when I'm being deceitful I'm the sort who considers the lay of the land, so my paranoia would be less obvious.

 

 

So your argument is that you're naturally much better at scum than town?  I find that hard to countenance.

[Darthe]

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:57 PM, Despothera said:

I also think that honestly if we WERE going to go down the "info lynch only" route on D1, Darthe would be a better choice. He's been mentioned by a bunch of players, and he's had some direct interaction with some of the "louder" players or other people in the limelight

By that logic hydra's should be better D1 lynches because the different members allow for subsets of interactions.  Also BS that you try to find different reasons to push votes onto me every so often.

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 11/13/2014 at 2:00 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:58 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

They aren't mutually exclusive. I know when I'm being deceitful I'm the sort who considers the lay of the land, so my paranoia would be less obvious.

 

 

So your argument is that you're naturally much better at scum than town?  I find that hard to countenance.

 

I'm more careful. Which has its merits and downsides. One of the merits is that I don't knee jerk as much.

[Yates]

Darthe - I found you easier to read when you were distracted by Best Man duties. Why are you all over the map, bro?

 

If you had three bullets, where would they go?

[Thane Vakarian]

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:47 PM, Pralaya said:

First ##unvote. I have no idea why Arsis was voting Nyn.

 

Caught up to 30 pages, that's all. That is about as much I could manage. 

 

If you guys are going to lynch me just based on how Arsis played, I cannot do much about it. I can see why some people are finding Arsis scummy based on my read so far, but it is his standard play in any game.

 

Anyway, I am VT. Not much loss other than a town down. 

if that ^ will stop people from voting him, i'll bite some heads off.

[Darthe]

Sili why do you think people are voting you?  Plz be specific.

[DPR]

  On 11/13/2014 at 11:52 AM, Cass said:

**Caught up to page 63, Post #1256**

 

Aside from the whole Des/DPR thing (leaving that well alone for now), it was probably post 1092 that really set me pinging off on DPR. Link provided for context. I'll give a general view on the things that ticked me off about it at the top. The spoiler is the post with 'wolfy' things highlighted in red, and my reactions to those are in a bigger font, red and bold (y'know, assuming the colour thing works this time).

 

So, when a player jumps into their first game, the other players (for the most part) welcome them and provide info so that they can catch onto things more quickly. Some sites have a no-lynch policy for first timers on D1 to keep things in perspective and fair. The idea here is that the game can be complex and we'd all rather see someone fall in love with it than get frustrated. You have noticed folks doing that in this game. 

 

However, your post below gives the impression that you know much more about this game than a first timer normally would. 

 

if you are a mafia prodigy and acting of your own accord, I can't wait to see more from you. 

 

But, and what seems more likely to me at this point, If you are being used as a puppet, I'm sorry. It's not fair for another player to use you like this.

 

To your points, I find your first sentence above biased as you claim that you intend to leave the "Des/DPR thing" alone and then you do no such thing. This speaks of an agenda to distance yourself from the argument, and then working your way around to addressing it directly. That's pretty advanced stuff for a first timer.

 

RECAP OF THOUGHTS / CURRENT LEAN ON DPR

Krak asks DPR a legitimate question about his stance on Des. And DPR ignores the specifics and goes on with generalised fluff.

 

Not true. Not try at all. I clearly state that I did not understand Krak's question. Krak has yet to reply. 

 

 I feel like this response to Krak is BS (Disclaimer: I have Krak down as a generally Townie player for now). I feel like Krak deserved a decent answer, in the best interests of the Town.

 

Sounds personal to me. And teh mock outrage in bold is indicative of someone becoming overly emotional about the topic. 

 

 That DPR didn't answer this - and that he did the same thing with Des (regardless of how tired we all were of Des' rampage, if he's Town he obviously feels he's onto something, and probably also deserves a response).

 

Wow. I clearly did answer the question, so that is again false.  But, more importantly, nice cheerleading for Des! Des is obviously onto something? Des deserves a response? Go team Des?!

 

Even though you stated you were going to leave this alone, here you are starting an argument that has more to do with supporting Des than it does bringing suspicion and points against me. 

 

I would have thought that anyone Town would have answered these questions as best as they were able, in the interests of clearing the air and moving on... but that didn't happen.

 

I missed the part where you know lots and lots about what is good for the town? Interestingly, because others cannot teach you nuance, you have missed the majority of what I've said in multiple posts. It's not your fault - far from it. But I have to point it out for obvious reasons.

 

Basically, I feel like his response to Krak is BS. Although the rest of the post comes across as a clever mix of truth and scum. It's not fair on the rest of Town to avoid answering questions about why he's avoiding answering questions about Des. Des became a loud player there for a while and, looking at Krak's post he's potentially gaining some traction.

 

Not fair on the rest of the town? Not fair to avoid answering questions about why I avoid Des? Des became a loud player and is gaining traction? This looks like either Des wrote this for you, or someone who wants to paint that impression did. 

 

@ DPR - Even if you have no regard for how Des plays, it's not fair on the rest of Town to refuse to answer what he asks because you don't consider him to be an 'authority'. It's not about not getting into a flame war. (1.) For me it's about you providing us with more to read. You refusing to do that is Wolfy, IMO. And, TBH, I find that much of the rest of your post to be exactly what you highlight in your last 3 points as what you claim you would do as scum if somebody was pinging in on you: ie: 1. (2.) Over posting intending to bury posts and poison player's reps (Your response to Ragnarok). 2. Steer any conversation away from points that could be damaging (Your response to Krak). 3. Poop on the thread so that people avoid it and don't talk. (Most of this post, potentially - which is extra scary with your 'weight')....

 

Okay, so we get that you are in love with Des, but why am I supposed to have regard for him? And again with the "not fair for the town" bit. Miraculously, you have zeroed in on me (much like the tunneling of another player...) and speak nothing about what's fair to the town in any of your other cases about other players? Not a peep about any of the inactives or the seagulls. No criticism whatsoever of Des tunneling me. I find these things suspicious given that you are such an expert on what's good for the town...

 

To your critique of my points in my post, it makes little sense for you cry about (1.) wanting to read more from me and then accusing me of (2.) over posting. Then you slag my post in general and call me scary because of my 'weight'? How do you know anything about my "weight"? No one even cares about my weight, haven't commented on it other than jabs. Yet here you are, spicing the dish with meta-rep that you have no idea about. Wow.  

 

Coincidently, you said this after I felt I was increasingly clear about that fact that I may have been pinging in on you, and alongside Csarmi AND Des

 

You feel that because you say you are pinging on me, I'm supposed to answer differently? Sounds like an over-inflated ego to me...

 

Csarmi AND Des are great guys, yeah?

 

(?and maybe others - NB TheRagnarok's post 1116 too) pinging in on you too). If you're telling the truth about that being what you would do as Scum then I really don't like where this is going.... (and yes, Csarmi, Des and Ragnarok and whoever else and I could be scum too, granted/goes without saying, but you're gaining some serious Scum ping here and if you're Town it makes sense that you answer the questions and help us all out, am I right?)

 

 

At the end of this, I think it's time for another direct question - you haven't been responding to my posts either - Why? Where do you stand on me (and why)?

 

It's your first game. I feel the same way about you that I feel for every first time player: Welcome to the game. Ask when you have a question. Make points as you see them and enjoy.

 

That's it.

 

Except now I feel really terrible for you because I think someone is taking unfair advantage of your situation.

 

@EVERYONE

This ^, coupled with the fact that the idea of Kiv and DPR heading up a team of scum would probably be fantastic (gameplay wise obviously, not for Town), truly has me worried... I know second guessing the mod's devious ways is technically null, but it's (the mod's decision) also part of the human component of the game (as far as I can deduct, + when I asked, nobody told me otherwise), and therefore, I can't help but consider it in my train of thought 

 

This is the worst kind of WIFOM you can shovel. The worst. Just so you know.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 8:52 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 6:21 PM, TheRagnarok said:

DPR is giving me some bad juju recently.  Everything looks good on the surface, but it feels wrong. 

 

To me this reads "My friend doesn't like you and neither do I". By all means, post opinions and quotes and cases but knee-jerking to an obvious "Oldster vs. New Gen" cage match setup isn't going to help the town. 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 6:30 PM, Krakalakachkn said:

 

Questions:

 

@DPR - In your post here I don't see you coming down on a side of the authority issue wrt Despo.  Do you have an opinion on Despo taking the authoritative high ground and what is your follow-up opinion on Verb's use of the same play while interacting with Thane in the first few pages?

 

Krak, I don't undersstand what you are asking here. If you asking if I consider Des to be an authority on mafia, the answer is no (I've already noted what I think of his game).

 

Nor do I believe or support any "high-ground" plays. On D1, every player is equal. Wolves are gonna lie. We all know this. Until the dying starts, there is no high or low ground, there is only collecting posts to use as evidence of connections. **OBVIOUS generalisations, SPECIFICALLY avoiding the question = Padding and fluff???**

 

I don't have a strong opinion on Verb or Thane yet.

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 7:12 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 6:38 PM, Kivam said:

Des: no better way to clear a teammate than by explaining his behavior in a post that also scumreads, because it has the full explanatory effect whole allowing the "I wasn't defending" play you are currently making. I have you mostly town, so I'm not putting to much weight on it, but it's a fact worth noting in case later play changes that read or you or Yates flip scum

Wow. Wifom up the wazoo. Is everyone taking crazy pills right now?

 

Kivam - this post is complete nonsense. You are creating a false connection here. I'm pointing out that I'm chastising you so that if you flip scum I can be cleared as Town. How do you like that "logic?"

 

Insane.

 

 

There is a 0% chance that Yates does not understand what Kivam is getting at. < This statement I agree with. But was the motive behind it distancing from a scummy pal?

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 7:31 PM, Kivam said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 7:12 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 6:38 PM, Kivam said:

Des: no better way to clear a teammate than by explaining his behavior in a post that also scumreads, because it has the full explanatory effect whole allowing the "I wasn't defending" play you are currently making. I have you mostly town, so I'm not putting to much weight on it, but it's a fact worth noting in case later play changes that read or you or Yates flip scum

Wow. Wifom up the wazoo. Is everyone taking crazy pills right now?

 

Kivam - this post is complete nonsense. You are creating a false connection here. I'm pointing out that I'm chastising you so that if you flip scum I can be cleared as Town. How do you like that "logic?"

 

Insane.

 

 

Of course.  Scum who aren't setting up WIFOMs from Day 1 are asleep at the switch and asking to take their teammates down with them if they get caught.  You don't do that as scum?  I sure as hell do, which means I always keep my eyes open for it.  I also find it interesting that you are trying to imply that there is no possible connection between you and DesLami.

 

 

Yates is a very skilled player. He's fun to watch, adept at big plays and absolutely not afraid to kick off D1 with strong moves.  

 

^^^ ***Whole thing smells of scum team interaction/distancing to me?***

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 7:43 PM, csarmi said:

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

 

You're not the only one.

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 7:45 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 7:43 PM, csarmi said:

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

Oh God I hope not.  I'm trying to cut them both some slack because I got burned scum reading Rags in his first game back.  But damn.  The stuff they are honing in on is so frivolous and nonsensical I just can't understand the logic...

 

 

Awwww guys, we appreciate you and all but it's really not necessary.  ***Cute.  Csarmi makes a point, potential scum jumps on the band wagon with a post that smells like buddying and scum distancing, and the accused just leaves it to reputation to take care of the heat??** (People, correct me if I'm wrong!)

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 7:47 PM, Despothera said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 7:43 PM, csarmi said:

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

 

I agree. And he's kind of trying - and very awkwardly I must say - to defend DPR without looking like he's defending DPR

 

Anyways, Imma go ahead and get out a fresh POE, then I need to start doing some errands cause ho lee krap I have been on here all friggin day

 

See my reaction above - Same. CSARMI and DES - thoughts?

 

 

I've asked some questions and made some statements about players and moves I thought they might be making. 

 

I've been very specific about what I consider to be fact and what I consider to be speculation.                                                                           All of this REEKS OF SCUM TO ME. (see explanation at the top)

 

I expect and encourage everybody else to do the same. 

 

On D1, it's all conjecture, and the more GRC players add, the more we'll find out who's radar is on, etc.

 

I find Yates 3A speech to be total bullshit. I find Yates Seer claim to be WIFOM, which in and of itself is not big deal. But, I find Des explaining Yates claim to be a possible connection between the two. I've made this clear. I find Des backtracking on his initial enthusiasm over the effectiveness of Seer Cover to be a reaction to my calling it a possible connection. I find Sili picking up the Seer Cover Support Points conversation this morning to be suspicious and another possible connection.

 

I'm not going to get into a flame war with Des because Des is an emotional train wreck. Des is obsessed with me and it's unfortunate, but there it is. 

 

All of this is documented and clear. No muss, no fuss.

 

For this afternoon, I see a concentrated effort to paint that "Oldster vs. New Gen" argument. To me, this is a pure scum technique - what a waste of everybody's time to fold up a buch of meta-paper-airplanes and send them all across the room.

 

If I was scum and somebody was pinging in on me on D1 with 30 hours to go until lynch, I would try to derail the thread with:

 

1. Emotional over posting intended to bury posts and poison players reps.

2. Steer any conversation away from points that could be damaging.

3. Poop on the thread so that people avoid it and don't talk. 

 

I'm watching at all of these things taking place right now. 

 

 

 

 

 

DPR - can you please reply? If you're Town I'd reeeaaallly like to know!

 

 

Other people - Help??

 

So, my overall thought, of course, is that your burnt.

 

I'm in blue throughout the post.

 

I didn't address the spoiler points because I felt them to be an overly emotional rehashing of the above points.

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 11/13/2014 at 2:05 PM, Darthe said:

Sili why do you think people are voting you?  Plz be specific.

Because I swapped votes a lot, with convenient timing, and overreacted to my wagon early on.

 

There's also been some mention of how I contradict myself from time to time, how I tried to explain seer cover to cass, and how i claimed seer after yates had.

[Darthe]

  On 11/13/2014 at 2:05 PM, Yates. said:

Darthe - I found you easier to read when you were distracted by Best Man duties. Why are you all over the map, bro?

 

If you had three bullets, where would they go?

I don't think I'm "all over the map", I simply have time to keep up with everything for once and so am trying to approach a lot of different angles.

 

If I had three bullets right now I'd shoot Laya, Verb and...  That last shot would be a YOLO so I'd probably go Dice/Tress/Hally.  

[Yates]

  On 11/13/2014 at 2:11 PM, Darthe said:

If I had three bullets right now I'd shoot Laya, Verb and...  That last shot would be a YOLO so I'd probably go Dice/Tress/Hally.

But you are voting for Kivam? And weren't you voting me for most of the day? When did that change? I saw nothing in thread about it.

[hazelkrs1]

  On 11/12/2014 at 10:07 PM, Cass said:

  Reveal hidden contents

** Read up to end of page 54 / Quote #1080**

 

 

@DES - I am definitely hooked and I did have trouble falling asleep. My daughter woke up at 530am and I just typed the word 'trouble' as trubble. Ruh-roh.   I've done a quick read through whilst the daughter is having breakfast and (currently by the end of the post) doing whatever I can keep her distracted doing and have made some notes on what you've said. They're not pretty but hopefully you get my drift.

 

Post 1021

I had a slightly negative vibe. I can't even remember what it was now, but the note I wrote was, word for word "?Trying too hard".

 

Post 1023

I'm split on this. I have you colour coded both red and green. I liked that you splits posts to manageable chunks - that was kind. But. Tone in specific response to my question rubs me the wrong way… If you're playing a smart Wolf game here, the following concerns me (numbered according to your system and my thoughts on each numbered point). 1. This could be you taking opportunity of my spills to align me further with Kiv … Risky (for me) if you're both playing wolf. 2. This could be defense of Yates. I STILL DON’T LIKE YATES' SEER CLAIM - EXPLANATION TOO THIN. 3. Along the lines of Kivam's post 1027, except that I am perhaps getting slightly concerned that you're tunneling here. Or wolfing, now. I'd like you to clear up which one.  If you're Town, I feel you're sitting on the fence on that question, based on how you think Yates would play, which doesn't work for me. As KIV pointed out earlier, doing this is dangerous. I guess what I really want from you now is a WHY are you feeling Yates is Town, with other reasons? Because I'm considering that the only reason he did what he did was because he was scum. For me, I see more sense in that than him doing it as Town, and so far, nobody has been able to clear this up for me to my satisfaction. Not Yates with the comments he made, not even you. I'm not saying defending him is wrong, but... if it's plausible that he would do it as scum, then it's plausible. I'm either tunneling and wrong, or I'm onto something. I'd like to see where this goes. So yeah, now I'm concerned - you wolfing? Don't get defensive, just have a look at where you think Yates lies and why, and then let me know with specific reasons, if you can find any, other than 'I don't think he's scum'. I'm stuck on this because so far, the logic everyone who's defending Yates is feeding me just doesn't seem to add up. Can you take another look and get back to me on this?

 

I'm not to worried about Thane's tone myself, but I'm keeping him on my radar. Thanks for the input, whatever it's worth 

 

POST 1028

TBH I just skipped post 1028. Kid woke up 15 mins and I'm getting away with this quick reply, sort of, while I brush her off during breakfast. Mother of the year right here. I will try and come back and read it, but I'm skipping now because I still want DPR to answer. I think you've made a lot of points for him to answer to and if I were you I would probably just stop pushing for a while - to give him a bit of time and something specific to focus on and see what he replies. This could be why it feels like you're tunneling on this to some, and posting more on the subject in several different posts... I actually think it might make it easier for him to wriggle away if he's not Town. Which, again could have potential implications against you if he turns out to be Wolf. *Muses* I'd sit on DPR for a while, see what he has to say, and then move in with any more defense/new material. Sound fair?

 

POST 1049

RE Defense against Darthe suggesting I seemed overcoached - I appreciate the defense, but, TBH I actually didn't mind the angle Darthe was pushing against me at that point - I would have been questioning me too. Because I'm an unknown. But I think you'll find he was happy with my response, and I thought this was resolved   ... Darthe, I don't have time to link, if you feel like or feel like I'm misrepresenting your read please jump on in.

RE The comment about some of us making a bigger deal about seer cover than anyone else in the game and the potential for that to be scummy - Fair. But as above, it's plausible that Yate's claim was scummy. It jumped out at me, and hasn't yet been cleared in my mind. Personally, I'm happy to sit on this for a while and see how that plays out. I think I've said that several times. But, if we're going to continue it, then as above on questions relating to your post 1023. I'm not sure if you're wolfing. Help me out.

 

@KIV - I haven't forgotten you, but you're potentially too big for me to tackle right now. 

 

@CSARMI – Post 1051 – yes to the possibility of DPR and Kivam being scum with each running interference. Thrilling/scary thought. Not sure where I stand yet, need  to go back and check.

 

@ EVERYONE – as a side note to this ^, how are players generally ‘randed’ by the mods? Because if they get to choose… Just a thought, but having this combination (DPR and Kiv as scum) would be something I would like to run if I was playing mastermind…  

@AJ – Hi :) your post 1069 and the comment that I’m susceptible for buddying, see above *g* Do you have any favourites for scum at this point (and why – with whatever it is you’re using for proof?). I’m not sure where I stand on you. Also, for whatever it’s worth on Dice and his content being low – I agree, although I’m leaning towards not making an issue of it yet because for all my recent activity I’m finding the timezone thing pretty hard so far (everything picks up somewhere around our midnight), and he’s an hour ahead of me. I’m not pushing it because as long as I’ve known him, he religiously goes to bed at 10pm.

 

@DICE -  get active. Please? I'm interested to see where you lie *g*. And also I don't know whether I want to love you forever or lynch you straight out for getting me involved in this game.

 

 

@EVERYONE - I'm thinking the best approach for me from here is to go back and re-read, take notes, and be ready for action after the N1 Lynch and Kill. If I even manage to catch up with reads, I probably won't post much more from here unless you specifically ask me something, or something jumps out enough to make me want to vote. In case I'm the one who dies, my top pics for Scum at this point are:

 

A Yates and Sili combo.

 

Maybe with Wombat and Des.

 

But I'm not adverse to the idea of Kiv and DPR, and it may actually make a LOT of sense (I just haven't had time to re-read them enough yet). They're my big ones to catch up on, and I can in no way rule them out just now/potentially ever   

 

I've given my reasons for the Yates and Sili combo above, Wombat is a little in the same boat. There was potentially something about posts his posts 837, 904 and 909. #929 I had as 'Valid, but the motive could be distancing because Yates and Sili are being locked/targeted'.

 

This is all just supposition and 'watching' for me at this point, which is why I haven't voted. And, (?unfortunately) I'll have to admit here that I'm including Des mostly because DPR did too. This isn't smart when I haven't finished rereading DPR (especially in the context of Kiv) but there you go. My current strongest scum reads are out there now.

 

See y'all 'soon'.

 

 

Re: 1021 - that was me trying to be as level headed as possible and get DPR to understand I was truly trying to resolve his slot and wanted him to help me do so if he WAS town

 

Re: you and Kivam - not sure where you get that I was linking you two, that wasn't my intent with the part I think you're referring to. I was trying to help you with your suspicions on Kivam- I think the tone stuff you found wasn't that conclusive for him.

 

Re: me defending Yates - I actually DO think Yates is town now, can you explain why you think his "explanation" is too thin? If you understand the seer cover thing, how is that a thin explanation? And what about what I have mentioned a couple times now, that him claiming in that manner wouldn't make as much sense as scum since it would draw so much attention his way? As for why I'm reading him town here, besides him not wanting to attract too much attention as scum, I feel he is following up on things in a townie manner. Scum!Yates can easily "scumhunt" ITT, but won't care as much about following up on the things he mentions. Town!Yates will.

 

I also feel I've been fairly specific in talking about things lately that make me think he's town, but I'm not sure why you think his claim was more likely to be done as scum than town. Could you clear that up for me? And fyi, not wolfing it up here. I'm towny and loving it

 

Re: Darthe and "over-coaching" - You might think that was innocuous, but I actually think that move from Darthe was anything but. The "coaching" angle has been used in the past when newer players seem to play "too" well for a beginner, and people think it's because they're being coached by teammates on the mafia QT. The logic is sound tbh, but the actual effectiveness of that line of reasoning has actually been pretty poor. More often it's gotten newer players defensive that other people think they couldn't be playing that well on their own, and usually lynches good beginners who are town and likely would have been a lot of help throughout the game. What's even crazier is that it was well established that you would have a mentor this game, so Darthe's point went from "not very effective" to "whoa what are you crazy????" since there was an OBVIOUS explanation for you playing well- that you are very astute and are receiving good mentorship from Manbat. Darthe's thing was basically as fake and lazy of a scumhunting attempt as he could have tried.

 

Re: how mods rand players - it is EXTREMELY rare for a mod to choose how roles are randed. They plug the names into random.org. I know some mods will sometimes reroll the rand, if for instance maybe they see some known inactive players end up with PR's or something, which would kind of be a disadvantage for that team, but even that is somewhat controversial. Irt the mod this game, I don't think Tommy would EVER selectively choose who teamed up with who. That point of yours is very very very unlikely to be of any use this game. Doesn't mean that Kivam and DPR can't be scum together, just that concept doesn't support it at all really

[Sili Quirrels]

It might do some good to mention the way cass is reading people reminds me of what I did in my first game. They're all very associative, and his inquiries are centered around utility scum tells.

[Leelou]

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:48 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:40 PM, Leelou said:

Hi Yates, I'll have some conversation with you. I'm here for a few minutes.

I'm happy with you here. I don't even know what to talk with you about. I'll make you some tea.

 

These types of posts give me the feel goods:

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:44 PM, Leelou said:

Darthe, you claimed to have viewed DPR. How do you feel about Des' push on him?

Maybe this; who are three people you have your eye on? Also, when is Verb back? Have any read on him or too soon?

 

 

I drink coffee, not tea. 

 

Three peeps: Darthe, Pral and Tress (mostly because I don't really remember much about her)

 

I have a town lean on Nyn. I still need to go back and detail read the thread. I've been skimming a bit to try to keep up the past couple days. Work has been hectic. Verb is back this weekend, so won't really have a read until he come back on him, but feeling a bit more comfy with Barm. 

[Kivam]

RECAP

 

Page 35: Leelou opens the page by saying she'll "pull quotes" for why she's not liking Darthe "in a minute".  I don't remember her following up on that. Did she?  Also, Leelou "doesn't get seer cover" because any of the claims could be "buddying".  FWIW, I've never seen this play before but its implications are obvious, and it's hard to imagine Leelou doesn't see them even if it's new to her as well.  Moderate ping.  Krak and Leelou go back and forth for a bit about relative contributions to the game, hypocrisy of Krak calling out Nyn ... which is a good point.  Des and Wes go back to Emo-land.  Des agrees with Leelou that seer claimants could be buddying (no kidding?).  Yates explains seer cover to Leelou, but doesn't buy that Des was serious in adopting Leelou's confusion. Nyn cases Arsis ... and does it well.  Sees some of the same things I've seen, throws out a vote.  Krak prods at Nyn some ... looks forced.  Yates agrees with Nyn's case on Arsis, adds some more, votes for him.  Could be opportunistic, but reads true to me (of course, I'm biased since I do think Arsis looks bad and a vote there is sensible).  Sili votes Arsis without explanation.

 

Page 36: Answer: Yes, she did.  Top of page 36 - a Darthe quote compilation, says he seems "self conscious". VerBARM agrees with Leelou, calls Darthe his "number 1 suspect" for the same reasons.  This is mostly a meta case and I don't know Darthe well enough to have thoughts on it, so I don't really know what to make of all this, except for the part about the push on me looking hella dirty, which it did. Krak, Nyn, Lee and Wes banter for a bit.  Arsis replaced by Praya, Mod invites speculation as to reasons by instructing us not to speculate as to reasons .  Krak, Nyn, and Leelou get into some content ... not feeling Krak at all here.  His points are weak. Weak, I say!  DESlami replies to yates.  Krak votes Nyn. Do not like this whole interaction.  DESlami says Krak is "jumping at straws" - agreed, though I'd say more "grasping" than "jumping" (why would one jump at a straw?).

 

Krak moving into my suspicious list.

 

Page 37: Nyn snipes more at Krak.  DESlami thinks Nyn-Krak is town on town violence.  Could be, but no idea why he's leaning that way with any strength (yes, I know you put an explanation in that post ... it's as weak a thoughtprocess as Krak's initial vote).    VerBARM says he dislikes the Nyn push, thinks she's town.  DESlami calls her "LOCK CLEAR" (*headdesk*).  DESlami has a "town core" of Wombat, Nyn, Me, VerBarm, & Leelou, could throw others in there but they "come to mind easily".  Interesting mix, primarily because Leelou hasn't yet posted enough content for me to understand any sort of solid pro-town judgment on her.  Note to self: I'm an idiot. Doing this gets much easier when I think through the fact that my office computer has two screens and realize I don't need to flip back and forth between tabs.  Thane says he will come back and "make sense of recent developments", asks why votes are sticking on Pral after he subbed in (what the what?).  VerBARM says "hell yes, they are" (correctly), goes to bed.  Wombat appreciates the love, but wonders where it's coming from.  Likes his vote on Arsis, willing to leave it there. Calls out DESlami for posturing, moves him down ... solid post, here.  Wombat continues to play a very townsided game.  I note that Thane's call for votes to leave Arsis is scummy as hell, may decide where I put my vote between him and Andrej; turns out I keep it on Sili.  But I'd forgotten this bit.  Thane sliding back up the rankings ... but in my next recap I move him down.  This is the problem with doing recaps; I tend to tunnel in on the moment, even with stuff that happened only an hour before the recap was posted.  In light of everything through page 37, I now have Thane in the suspicious tier.  VERBarm denies defending Sili, says he's only attacking my reason (which is both legitimate and still a defense). 

 

(And DM is back up.)