[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Andrej]

Anyway, for realsies have to go now.

 

This afternoon is my long shift with the kiddos so I'll be plenty busy keeping them from destroying anything and everything around them. I may get lucky and get out a few minutes before the dead line falls but there's no guarantee.

 

GLGLGL

[hazelkrs1]

Des: Try reading "really, really town. Really." in a sarcastic tone of voice and see how that feels to you.

 

Didn't read as sarcasm to me when I read it. And I'll occasionally misread things, but I'm not a complete dolt when it comes to reading sarcastic tone.

 

Des, when I said "really, really town. Really" I was being sarcastic. Really sarcastic.

 

Firstly- if that's the case, why did it take you so long to say so?

 

And if you were being sarcasting in the first place, why when I asked your opinion on if the seer claim was real or not, you kept being evasive? You could've just said then "I was being sarcastic, I don't really buy it"

 

Thank you for finally responding however. Wasn't that hard was it?

 

I've never had to do this before and it's surreal to me that I have to now, but I'm going to have to ask that return your autographed DPR Fan Club poster and membership wings.

 

Okay, I need to be alone for a while.

 

Oh, and I can't believe you offered to self-vote.

 

OMG.

 

If you can show me where I did, I will GLADLY self vote.

 

Des: this is never a town play. Never. Like never ever.

 

I said it in confidence because I know it NEVER happened.

 

If anything it was more me trying to give him impetus to respond to anything I was pointing out about him.

 

---

 

Okay so DPR aside from this, what about your thing with Sili? I laid it out in a recent post, but yeah you kind of ended up tripping all over yourself and forgetting your initial fos, and ended up getting all mixed up. Can you try and explain that plz?

[WWWwombat]

 

At one point in time, we used to have a mutual respect for eachother's game Wombat.

 

Guess those days have passed.

 

/shrug

 

 

More than one way to skin a cat.  Cut the emo out.  It's annoying me.

[DPR]

Go away Des.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

At one point in time, we used to have a mutual respect for eachother's game Wombat.

 

Guess those days have passed.

 

/shrug

 

 

More than one way to skin a cat.  Cut the emo out.  It's annoying me.

 

 

And you disregarding my case on DPR is annoying me. Guess we both be having issues!

 

Go away Des.

 

Deflect much?

[Leelou]

Wes, can I curl up in your lap and take a nap? No one is getting me coffee. 

 

Also, I blocked off time on my calendar for tomorrow morning so I can hide in an office and read the game. 

[hazelkrs1]

Meant to say - also kinda funny how Kivam and DPR both used the "sarcasm" excuse, and BOTH also latched on to my "self-vote" thing

 

Anyways, I'm gonna take a break. Gotta take care of a bunch of stuff anyways and gotta pick up Niki soon anyhow.

 

Isn't deadline tomorrow? Thought I saw Tommy say lynches would always happen on thursdays or w/e.

[csarmi]

 

How about I ignore you and read them for myself?

 

 

Honestly thought this post was pretty rude and disrespectful honestly, and unnecessarily so.

 

What I said before is valid imo- just reading them for tone or w/e might not give you the best picture. I laid out very specific stuff (especially against DPR) that imo is extremely relevant, yet you just kind of snap at me instead.

 

Outside the game- honestly kind of hurt Leelou.

 

 

 

Salami - so what do you do when scum does townie stuff day 1 and you "lock clear" them? Because that's exactly what the gambit was about. You guys are all making the mistake of thinking scum need to act like scum to won, when the opposite is true.

 

 

People like to LOCK CLEAR on tone now because a monkey can get a 75% success rate doing it and they can just paint their failures as good "deep wolf" play by the clearee rather than the clearer playing like a doofus.

 

I think LOCK CLEAR to you seems to indicate you'll never readjust the read again, when I am ALWAYS willing to readjust my reads. LOCK CLEAR to me just means "strong townread"

I think you read too much into that Des. I agree with Leelou that she should form her own reads and her having a sort of bite in her words shodnt bother you much.

 

Wombat has a point there but i do believe there is more to it... As i explained earlier, positive reinforcement works.

[WWWwombat]

Meant to say - also kinda funny how Kivam and DPR both used the "sarcasm" excuse, and BOTH also latched on to my "self-vote" thing

 

This is the kind of crap that makes me not trust your case on DPR.

[Yates]

There is a 0% chance that Yates does not understand what Kivam is getting at.

There is a 0% chance that you didn't understand the point I was trying to make.

 

I *know* what Kivam is trying to say. I restated it for him - which you are conveniently leaving out. But I'm saying is hogwash. I have a history with a number of players in the game. If someone that knows how I play says "Yates does or says this as Town or this as scum" and it's accurate? Who cares? That's nothing more than introducing some meta knowledge. And in this case, he was introducing meta knowledge BECAUSE HE WAS ASKED FOR IT. How this becomes "Des and Yates are now linked" is complete garbage.

 

I'm actually feeling okay about Des and seeing a lot of his Town tells so maybe this is all moot. But I don't like being set up for associative tells that aren't associative tells.

 

Awwww guys, we appreciate you and all but it's really not necessary.

Okay. No slack offered then. The next time either of you are "confused" about something or make mountains out of mole hills, I will assign the appropriate amount of scum points to it.

 

Like - how you avoid direct questions, for example. Super scummy.

How you have illustrated cognitive dissonance throughout your WoT's. Super scummy.

How you have failed to recognize [new to DM] standard play as WIFOM. Super scummy.

How you have failed to adjust your reads based on information that disproves your own logic. Super scummy.

 

The only reason I haven't jumped on the DPR wagon is because I have been cutting you slack AND because I have meta info on Des that suggests that he can get tunnelly on Townies because he will find things to fit his narrative. While that is typically a scum tell, I have very recently come to realize that this is not alignment indicative *for Des*. [And when it goes wrong - it goes really wrong.]

 

So how about you start reading the thread for context? And try adjusting your reads when context you didn't understand is given?

 

Pop quiz, hotshot; what's the difference between your reaction to all of the context provided surrounding "SeerGate" and Cass's reaction after Des "defended" Kivam when Cass didn't understand the "pop quiz hotshot" reference? Here's a hint; one of them is incredibly scummy and one of them is naturally townie.

[WWWwombat]

Yates, ignoring Des' case on DPR but not DPR's play, is DPR scum?  I need halp.

[Yates]

I may get lucky and get out a few minutes before the dead line falls but there's no guarantee.

You and I have very different definitions for "getting lucky."

 

That said, I'm out for the rest of the night. Brew club stuff. I'll see if I can get back on after but it'll be pretty late.

[WWWwombat]

Kivs, who is the best info lynch today and why?

[csarmi]

Meant to say - also kinda funny how Kivam and DPR both used the "sarcasm" excuse, and BOTH also latched on to my "self-vote" thing

 

Anyways, I'm gonna take a break. Gotta take care of a bunch of stuff anyways and gotta pick up Niki soon anyhow.

 

Isn't deadline tomorrow? Thought I saw Tommy say lynches would always happen on thursdays or w/e.

I read that as sarcasm too. And Despo doesn't get to selfvote. I do think his reads are good tho.

[Yates]

Yates, ignoring Des' case on DPR but not DPR's play, is DPR scum?  I need halp.

Nah. I'm reading Des's case. I'm just taking it with a grain of salt.

 

What I was trying to say before is that some of the logic these guys are using as "scum tells" just doesn't hold up. His biggest thing on me was the 3 Amigos thing. Okay. Fine. He wasn't around and I think you were bothered by it but overall that's a pretty null thing to blow up about. His next big thing was the SeerGate stuff. I genuinely can't tell if he just doesn't know what's going on or if he's trying to paint a narrative to try to push me on.

 

I want him to directly address some of Des's more pertinent points - because he does have them - and I would also like for him to respond to my pop quiz because THAT is just one example of DPR sounding disingenuous. Like, he thinks Kivim has a point about saying that Des and I are now linked because Dice asked Des what he thought of my Seer claim? What? Just doesn't make any sense.

[hazelkrs1]

@Wombat, Thane

 

http://youtu.be/CSp_oqY9l20

 

 

(That did actually cheer me up big time. And Thane I mentioned you cause this was recorded in Belgium- the year I was born in fact! )

[WWWwombat]

It makes sense if DPR thinks you're scum, but idk why he would think that.  You appear to be your typical, affable, enigmatic self to me.  And DPR has played with you at least twice to my knowledge.

[WWWwombat]

It makes sense if DPR thinks you're scum, but idk why he would think that.  You appear to be your typical, affable, enigmatic self to me.  And DPR has played with you at least twice to my knowledge.

[Cass]

** Read up to end of page 54 / Quote #1080**

 

 

@DES - I am definitely hooked and I did have trouble falling asleep. My daughter woke up at 530am and I just typed the word 'trouble' as trubble. Ruh-roh.   I've done a quick read through whilst the daughter is having breakfast and (currently by the end of the post) doing whatever I can keep her distracted doing and have made some notes on what you've said. They're not pretty but hopefully you get my drift.
 

Post 1021

I had a slightly negative vibe. I can't even remember what it was now, but the note I wrote was, word for word "?Trying too hard".

 

Post 1023

I'm split on this. I have you colour coded both red and green. I liked that you splits posts to manageable chunks - that was kind. But. Tone in specific response to my question rubs me the wrong way… If you're playing a smart Wolf game here, the following concerns me (numbered according to your system and my thoughts on each numbered point). 1. This could be you taking opportunity of my spills to align me further with Kiv … Risky (for me) if you're both playing wolf. 2. This could be defense of Yates. I STILL DON’T LIKE YATES' SEER CLAIM - EXPLANATION TOO THIN. 3. Along the lines of Kivam's post 1027, except that I am perhaps getting slightly concerned that you're tunneling here. Or wolfing, now. I'd like you to clear up which one.  If you're Town, I feel you're sitting on the fence on that question, based on how you think Yates would play, which doesn't work for me. As KIV pointed out earlier, doing this is dangerous. I guess what I really want from you now is a WHY are you feeling Yates is Town, with other reasons? Because I'm considering that the only reason he did what he did was because he was scum. For me, I see more sense in that than him doing it as Town, and so far, nobody has been able to clear this up for me to my satisfaction. Not Yates with the comments he made, not even you. I'm not saying defending him is wrong, but... if it's plausible that he would do it as scum, then it's plausible. I'm either tunneling and wrong, or I'm onto something. I'd like to see where this goes. So yeah, now I'm concerned - you wolfing? Don't get defensive, just have a look at where you think Yates lies and why, and then let me know with specific reasons, if you can find any, other than 'I don't think he's scum'. I'm stuck on this because so far, the logic everyone who's defending Yates is feeding me just doesn't seem to add up. Can you take another look and get back to me on this?
 

I'm not to worried about Thane's tone myself, but I'm keeping him on my radar. Thanks for the input, whatever it's worth 

 

POST 1028

TBH I just skipped post 1028. Kid woke up 15 mins and I'm getting away with this quick reply, sort of, while I brush her off during breakfast. Mother of the year right here. I will try and come back and read it, but I'm skipping now because I still want DPR to answer. I think you've made a lot of points for him to answer to and if I were you I would probably just stop pushing for a while - to give him a bit of time and something specific to focus on and see what he replies. This could be why it feels like you're tunneling on this to some, and posting more on the subject in several different posts... I actually think it might make it easier for him to wriggle away if he's not Town. Which, again could have potential implications against you if he turns out to be Wolf. *Muses* I'd sit on DPR for a while, see what he has to say, and then move in with any more defense/new material. Sound fair?

 

POST 1049

RE Defense against Darthe suggesting I seemed overcoached - I appreciate the defense, but, TBH I actually didn't mind the angle Darthe was pushing against me at that point - I would have been questioning me too. Because I'm an unknown. But I think you'll find he was happy with my response, and I thought this was resolved   ... Darthe, I don't have time to link, if you feel like or feel like I'm misrepresenting your read please jump on in.
RE The comment about some of us making a bigger deal about seer cover than anyone else in the game and the potential for that to be scummy - Fair. But as above, it's plausible that Yate's claim was scummy. It jumped out at me, and hasn't yet been cleared in my mind. Personally, I'm happy to sit on this for a while and see how that plays out. I think I've said that several times. But, if we're going to continue it, then as above on questions relating to your post 1023. I'm not sure if you're wolfing. Help me out.

 

@KIV - I haven't forgotten you, but you're potentially too big for me to tackle right now. 

 

@CSARMI – Post 1051 – yes to the possibility of DPR and Kivam being scum with each running interference. Thrilling/scary thought. Not sure where I stand yet, need  to go back and check.

@ EVERYONE – as a side note to this ^, how are players generally ‘randed’ by the mods? Because if they get to choose… Just a thought, but having this combination (DPR and Kiv as scum) would be something I would like to run if I was playing mastermind…  
@AJ – Hi :) your post 1069 and the comment that I’m susceptible for buddying, see above *g* Do you have any favourites for scum at this point (and why – with whatever it is you’re using for proof?). I’m not sure where I stand on you. Also, for whatever it’s worth on Dice and his content being low – I agree, although I’m leaning towards not making an issue of it yet because for all my recent activity I’m finding the timezone thing pretty hard so far (everything picks up somewhere around our midnight), and he’s an hour ahead of me. I’m not pushing it because as long as I’ve known him, he religiously goes to bed at 10pm.

 

@DICE -  get active. Please? I'm interested to see where you lie *g*. And also I don't know whether I want to love you forever or lynch you straight out for getting me involved in this game.

 

 

@EVERYONE - I'm thinking the best approach for me from here is to go back and re-read, take notes, and be ready for action after the N1 Lynch and Kill. If I even manage to catch up with reads, I probably won't post much more from here unless you specifically ask me something, or something jumps out enough to make me want to vote. In case I'm the one who dies, my top pics for Scum at this point are:

 

A Yates and Sili combo.

 

Maybe with Wombat and Des.

 

But I'm not adverse to the idea of Kiv and DPR, and it may actually make a LOT of sense (I just haven't had time to re-read them enough yet). They're my big ones to catch up on, and I can in no way rule them out just now/potentially ever   

I've given my reasons for the Yates and Sili combo above, Wombat is a little in the same boat. There was potentially something about posts his posts 837, 904 and 909. #929 I had as 'Valid, but the motive could be distancing because Yates and Sili are being locked/targeted'.

 

This is all just supposition and 'watching' for me at this point, which is why I haven't voted. And, (?unfortunately) I'll have to admit here that I'm including Des mostly because DPR did too. This isn't smart when I haven't finished rereading DPR (especially in the context of Kiv) but there you go. My current strongest scum reads are out there now.

 

See y'all 'soon'.

[Cass]

Oh, and @ Krak

 

Oh, and ##Sili

 

Why???

[hazelkrs1]

I actually kind of think even if DPR WAS being sarcastic there it was kind of wolfy.

 

Like, if he was being sarcastic, then he didn't think Yates was really hard claiming at all, but was ... buddying Dice I guess?

 

Seems to be a very low tier type read to make off of that. What's the scum motivation in such a move? Did DPR think Yates was fishing for the real Seer? If so why didn't he vote Yates or kinda go harder at him for that?

 

I dunno, still looks off to me from that angle

[WWWwombat]

Cass, 837 was a Thane post.

[WWWwombat]

 

Despothera

 

105

 

Thane Vakarian

 

104

 

Nynaeve

 

101

 

Sili Quirrels

 

97

 

WWWwombat

 

92

 

Darthe

 

88

 

csarmi

 

85

 

Leelou

 

59

 

Verbal32

 

53

 

Kivam

 

50

 

Yates.

 

44

 

DreadPirateRoberts

 

41

 

Andrej

 

40

 

Barmacral

 

38

 

Krakalakachkn

 

36

 

Arsis

 

26

 

Tommyrod

 

23

 

Cass

 

23

 

TheRagnarok

 

13

 

dicetosser1

 

10

 

Songstress

 

8

 

Stelio Kontos

 

6

 

Hallia

 

3

 

Pralaya

 

2

 

[WWWwombat]

____ __ ____ _____, find wilves?

[hazelkrs1]

@Cass: Dont have time to respond to all of your stuff just now, but the Yates thing:

 

I think you still don't quite understand the concept of "Seer Cover". On the surface it can definitely be seen as a protown thing to do- if a bunch of people all claim Seer and give their "viewings" then it allows the real Seer to easily breadcrumb his or her viewings into the thread without worrying about the scum finding him or her.

 

Then, if the Seer dies at some point, town just has to look through their posts and see who the real viewings were

 

That's not why I have Yates as town tho, the main reason I have him as town now is associative- the people that have pushed him look scummy to me, and that I don't think he would have willingly attracted this much attention as scum