[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Thane Vakarian]

  On 11/20/2014 at 5:29 PM, csarmi said:

Thane are you home?

nope, at work

[csarmi]

Well im sending her a hug. Also tell her i had mine yesterday.

[Songstress]

  On 11/20/2014 at 5:29 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

 

  On 11/20/2014 at 5:13 PM, csarmi said:

Tress.

 

Why did Krak not place a meaningful vote

 

I've been asking myself the same question. I don't understand EOD2. Kivam could have kept his vote on Verbram and Krak could have fueled it and maybe saved his hide while mislynching Verbram. He could have voted AJ. Or alternatively he could have piled on Kivam to look good once he flipped. Instead Kivam unvotes Verbram, moves his vote to AJ (who had 1 vote on him at the time), thereby putting himself as the leading train. Him not taking the easy way out and trying to push Verbram is odd.  Doesn't add up. And Krak's yolo vote on Pral makes even less sense in the situation.

 

 

And again, my best guess is the tinfoil one.

 

Kivam intended to die, Cass was being mentored in the gambit.

 

I'm probably off base, but this is what my gut is starting to say.  

[Songstress]

  On 11/20/2014 at 5:27 PM, csarmi said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 5:09 PM, Songstress said:

Can't remember anything else off the top of my head that I wanted to respond to that is still relevant - yesterday at work I was wanting to quote Wombat's previous reads list and ask why I was as high up as I was, but then I saw the Rags had already done it, and I wanted to see if there was anything further before I responded myself (which there was by the time I got there).

 

Have about 10 minutes before I need to run get ready for work, this afternoon is my inaugural training session and I need to do some prep work before my shift starts.

 

Reads list with a few random notes:

 

Fairly comfortable town reads:

 

DesLami - Firmly telling myself not to tinfoil right now.  Des is reading like Town!Des to me, and the tunnel on DPR is reminiscent of many other Town!Des tunnels. And since most of his points make a lot of sense (I did catch the sarcasm in DPR's "really really town" post, FWIW), I'm giving this one credit.  I disagree with some of the other reads, but overall I think we're seeing things pretty similarly.

 

Kivam - I'll admit I haven't read the catchup posts carefully or gone back to check context as recommended, but since the conclusions he's reached have made sense to me and many of them resonated with what I've been thinking, I'm putting him in my town pile for the moment.

 

Wombat - More gut feeling than anything.  May be subject to tinfoil later.

 

Nyn - I don't remember what the discussion was that gave me this impression, but it gave me a pretty strong "yeah, this looks like town!Nyn" vibe that's stuck with me.

 

 

Townish vibe:

 

Yates - I will always tinfoil on Yates, but unless we have a Yates/Des scum team I think I'm more comfortable calling him town. 

 

Rags - Gave him town points for mindmeld when he asked Wombat about why he was so high in the greens on his reads list yesterday.

 

Thane - no specifics, just warm fuzzies.

 

Null/mixed/no clue:

 

Dice

AJ

Leelou

VerBarm - These 4 I don't really remember much that stuck with me one way or another.  Will have to reread to develop a more concrete opinion.

 

 

Cass - Mixed so far.  I don't like DPR's suggestion that her posts are being written by someone else.  She's putting a lot of effort into this, and that I like.  I know I've missed some of what she's posted and will have to go back and re-read her later.

 

Stelio - Really no idea what to do with him yet.

 

Hallia - oh where oh where is my Hally?

 

Mildly uncomfortable:

 

Arsis/Pral

Krak

Darthe

 

No specifics for these guys, just a gut level discomfort that I can probably go back and make less nebulous this weekend.

 

Top scum leans:

 

SIli - More gut feeling than anything specific, although I remember reading several posts that made me say "whoa there" and I could probably go back and pick them out if needed.  Willing to lynch.

 

DPR - I hate the thought of lynching Wes D1 when he's been gone for a while, but I'm seriously uncomfortable with his play so far, specifically how he's been interacting with Des and Cass.

  

  On 11/15/2014 at 3:44 AM, Songstress said:

A few quick takes based on the day/night results and discussion so far...

 

Des is still firmly on my town list.

 

Womby bumps down a notch.

 

Pral jumps up to tentative town - based on Despo's Yates Spew Analysis in part, but also because I don't see Scum!Pral dropping his push on me after realizing Yates never mentioned me in his reads list.  

 

DPR still looks sketchy to me.

 

Rags still looks pretty townie.

 

Little less sure of Thane.

 

I need to re-read and recalibrate, and tomorrow will be a fine, fine day for that.  Tonight is for unwinding from a long, stressful week.  Expect more activity from me for the next two days.

Thane, does this read progression feel natural for you? Does it match what Tress said just now?

 

Tress - what does "a little less sure" mean?

 

 

Why am I not getting ready for work?

 

It means that I was feeling more null on Thane at the moment.

[Darthe]

Clap, clap, clap, clap your hands

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:27 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:25 PM, Despothera said:

Don't see how you could have Cass as null. You really think she could fake her rambling SoC posts as scum her first time?

 

1. As far as I know there's also a SK in the mix

 

2. It's a possible. 

 

This post does nothing.  It hedges on there being an SK in the game and on her Cass read and it's oddly indefinite considering how sure she was earlier about what DPR was saying.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:32 PM, Nynaeve said:

I think this is hilarious, Des. Cause you're basically underestimating her and saying there's no way she could fake this as scum considering it's her first game. But the word on the street is that she's a prodigy that's gonna be upstaging us all soon, according to Kivam.... so I think I'm gonna size her up the same way I size up everyone else. ktanks.

Why would you base your perspective on Kivam's thoughts?  Implicit here is that you trusted him entirely.  

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:50 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:48 PM, Kivam said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:22 PM, Darthe said:

Was holding off on the Kiv thing to see if he was going to bite at people voting him for his catchup posts but he never really did.  Kind of odd to see him not even address votes so I've been content to leave it for now but before I go (an hour and a half left) I'll probably change it since there isn't much there.  

 

It's Day 1, and I'm playing with a bunch of people who never played with me before but seem to have heard my name.  Why would I be riled up by getting voted?

 

 

Yeah, he's popular. Don't be jelly Derf.

 

Soft defense to me even talking about Kiv.  Very out of place.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:52 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:48 PM, Despothera said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:32 PM, Nynaeve said:

I think this is hilarious, Des. Cause you're basically underestimating her and saying there's no way she could fake this as scum considering it's her first game. But the word on the street is that she's a prodigy that's gonna be upstaging us all soon, according to Kivam.... so I think I'm gonna size her up the same way I size up everyone else. ktanks.

I didn't say there was NO WAY she could fake this as scum, I just find it highly unlikely.

It's one thing to pick up the elements of scumhunting very quickly, quite another to be able to fake tone as scum that well imo, and do that rambling sort of thing that would be MUCH more likely to accidentally let something slip when rambling like that

 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm trying not to factor that in. If she's town it will grow apparent as we get some flips and start connecting the dots.

 

I'm curious to see how this panned out.  Has nyn ever posted a read on Cass that shows some sign of definity?

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 7:07 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Vote Count D1.21:

 

Pral (5): Nyn [#691], Yates [#698], Sili [#700], Leelou [#1302], Thane [#1299]
Sili (5): Kivam [#362], Krak [#1026], Wombat [#1213], Verbarm [#1239] Dice [#1660]
DPR (3): Deslami [#1457], Cass [#1566], Stelio [#1598]
Kivam (2): AJ [#1192], Darthe [#1311]


Unvote (1): Pral [#1323]

Not Voting (7): Cass, DPR, Hallia, Rags, Tress

At the gallows: Pral

Quoting a VC.  Yates on laya, Kiv and Krak on Sili

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:59 PM, dicetosser1 said:

i need to head to work so

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:58 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

They aren't mutually exclusive. I know when I'm being deceitful I'm the sort who considers the lay of the land, so my paranoia would be less obvious.

 

 

 

this. it ties into thoughts from marlfox  so i cant explain.

 

 

##vote sili

WUT

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 8:55 PM, WWWwombat said:

Also, Nyn's defense of Wes is utterly terrible.

Didn't bother much quoting this stuff but yeah, it was.  Womby here is referring to the way she talked definitively about DPR and Cass when someone would attack DPR but then hedged on Cass when people shifted focus that way.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:03 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:21 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:18 PM, Cass said:

Flattered, but Nyn - have you even entertained the idea that I am writing all my own posts? <- That's not snide, it's genuine. If you think at everything I've written from this angle, would it change your read of me/help convince you that I'm Town?

 

Just sayin.

 

I'm starting to hate the fact that people know I am a noob.

 

You're missing my point. I wasn't actually talking about you. I was saying that I think people are overreacting to a valid option and calling it rude as if DPR kicked a puppy or something. It's stupid.

 

So this has nothing to do with my read on you. You're still neatly in the null pile.

 

 

Why is it that I feel like every post you make is some sort of argument against someone else's stance on some issue that YOU HAVE NO ACTUAL STANCE ON?

 

I thought this was a good point but I don't really have anything to analyze in it.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:06 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:27 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:25 PM, Despothera said:

Don't see how you could have Cass as null. You really think she could fake her rambling SoC posts as scum her first time?

 

1. As far as I know there's also a SK in the mix

 

2. It's a possible. 

 

 

Open setup, Nyn.  There is an SK in the mix.

 

Womby was on point.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:11 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:11 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/10/2014 at 4:28 AM, Tommyrod said:

Vanilla+ Setup

1 Wolf (Godfather OR 1x Bulletproof)

1 Wolf Roleblocker

1 Wolf N1 Vig

1 Wolf N2 Vig

1 Serial Killer (Godfather OR 1x Bulletproof)
1 Village Seer

1 Village Jailkeeper
1 Village Odd-Night Vig
1 Village Even-Night Vig
11 Vanilla Villagers

 

 

That's what I said, dingus

 

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:13 PM, Kivam said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:06 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:27 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:25 PM, Despothera said:

Don't see how you could have Cass as null. You really think she could fake her rambling SoC posts as scum her first time?

 

1. As far as I know there's also a SK in the mix

 

2. It's a possible. 

 

 

Open setup, Nyn.  There is an SK in the mix.

 

 

LOL.  Wombat took the crazy pills too, it seems. (Unless I'm completely misreading, Nyn's saying it's possible that Cass could fake stream of consciousness posts as scum, which should be obvious).

 

This double defense stuck out to me.  He made two points, that there was an SK and that Nyn was treating different players differently and they showed up on thread at the same time to refute them.  More to come.

 

 

 

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/20/2014 at 5:21 PM, Songstress said:

I haven't gone back to read all of Thane's posts, so this is off the cuff.

 

As I recall, when I posted my first read list I had him as green due to gut feeling - I was trying to minimize the nulls on my list and he seemed pretty typical Thane to me.  One of the things I noted IRT Nyn was how I'd given her a town lean early because of how she handled Thane, and primarily that was because it mirrored a lot of what I was thinking - that I normally find him pretty outrageously scummy, and I have to try to adjust for that knowing that's pretty much how he plays (based on past history).  There have been quite a few times over the course of the game I remember reading one of his posts and thinking "why would you even say that?", and then thinking "Oh, right, it's Thane."  

 

I think that we often mindmeld because a lot of times we see things the same way. We have a similar thought process. The above is exactly how I think a player like Thane should be read, 

[Nynaeve]

I have to go pick up my sister. Should be back shortly. 

[Songstress]

  On 11/18/2014 at 1:59 AM, Kivam said:

Fyi, since I'm dead anyway, we targeted des and stelio for kills. And wombat, you're watching the gambit work this game. Happy hunting, townies

 

 

Here it is.

 

WIFOM? Maybe.  Maybe not.

[Nynaeve]

I'll respond to your points when I get back, Darthe.

[Darthe]

To the left now ya'll

 

  Reveal hidden contents

  On 11/13/2014 at 9:30 PM, dicetosser1 said:

my reads  tho im not totally caught up

 

Strong Town

 

me obviously

Cass

Thane

 

medium strong lean

yates

nyn

 

im gonna have a three person null pile  i will try to explain the reasons

 

Des/csarmi  I am purposely keeping des null. I have agreed with points he has made in his tunnel. I think he needs to get out of the tunnel before his yelling brings the walls down. BUT I can see both town and mafia reasons for his actions. Town  he believes what he is saying. Mafia  the fact that des caught DPR as scum has been bought up in 2 recent games. Marlfox and this one. I can see scum, particularly a experienced team, using this as a way to try and get DPR gone or possible clear one of the 2 if they are both scum.

 

Csarmi is actually holding des back for me a little. He isnt as active as he usually is as town and so i cant read him the way i usually do.

 

 

Kivam   a lot of his posts  esp early seemed to be written so that they were ambigious on purpose. Am watching him

 

DPR   like i said i think des has some valid points. but i feel like he is just trying to get reactions.  also watching

 

the low end for me is sili.  as i think i said its based on reads based in ongoing game so am not elaborating at this time.

I'm quoting this for the next post.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 10:13 PM, Stelio Kontos said:

OK, um, Dice, I have to ask this:

 

You left at 1:00 (my time, anyway) with a "I have to go to work so Im'a gonna drop this vote and leave"

 

and now you're posting 2.5 hours later with a reads list that apparently didn't really exist before or I'm assuming you would have posted it

 

so, uh, what gives?

Stelio was grand here.  This is a question that Dice never even tried to answer btw.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 10:39 PM, WWWwombat said:

Sili Quirrels is a Werewolf.  All loyal villagers will vote Sili Quirrels now.

Great excuse for people to move from Laya to Sili.  Mafia probably wouldn't want to make that move since they knew Sili town but I've taken a bit of time to quote out shifts in vote patterns around this time and see what could be taken from it.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 10:47 PM, Tommyrod said:

Vote Count D1.22:

Pral (5): Nyn [#691], Yates [#698], Sili [#700], Leelou [#1302], Thane [#1299]
Sili (4): Kivam [#362], Krak [#1026], Wombat [#1213], Verbarm [#1239]
DPR (3): Deslami [#1457], Cass [#1566], Stelio [#1598]
Kivam (1): AJ [#1192]
Dice (1): Darthe [#1685]

Unvote (2): Pral [#1323], Dice [#1714]

Not Voting (7): Cass, DPR, Hallia, Rags, Tress

At the gallows: Pral

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 11:57 PM, Tommyrod said:

Vote Count D1.24:

Sili (7): Kivam [#362], Krak [#1026], Wombat [#1213], Verbarm [#1239], AJ [#1779], Leelou [#1781], Diceman [#1799]
Pral (4): Nyn [#691], Yates [#698], Sili [#700], Thane [#1299]
DPR (3): Deslami [#1457], Cass [#1566], Stelio [#1598]
Dice (1): Darthe [#1685]

Unvote (1): Pral [#1323]

Not Voting (4): DPR, Hallia, Rags, Tress

At the gallows: Sili

So when I did this I moved forward to find the VC shift and then realized that Dice had an awful switch which he got called out for by a lot of people.

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:00 AM, Stelio Kontos said:

Dice,

 

Can you please explain how you arrived at your read on Thane?

Can you please explain how you arrived at your read on Nyn?

Can you please explain how you arrived at your read on Sili*?

 

 

 

*: "No, I can't, because it has to do with another game that's ongoing" will not be an acceptable answer to this question.

This is answered two down.

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:04 AM, Stelio Kontos said:

And, for that matter, does it bother you that NONE of the people you have cleared as villagers is voting the person you are voting in this spot?

Stelio was NK'd N1 for those of you who don't remember.  I doubt highly that he was a vig shot since nobody on thread that I could find ever expressed a negative read of him.

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:18 AM, dicetosser1 said:

Thane and nyn are meta based. they are behaving in ways i associate with the town version of them. this is not set in concrete.

 

as for the answer you dont want?  Too bad. the game is currently ongoing, both sili and i are lynch candidates. it is not right to bring it in here now.

 

If you dont like it take it up with tommy. A number of us asked in signups for this game to not start til AFTER Marlfox finished. It started before and there are approx a half dozen of us in this game that are still alive in that 300+ page one.

K, so to summarize meta and not telling.  Also town-reads are still alive and mafia read flipped as a dead townie.  

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:27 AM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:23 AM, Despothera said:

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:21 AM, dicetosser1 said:

your being stupid des

 

You have a pretty bad voting record thus far, are not justifying your reads very well, and yeah pretty sure Sili is town so I'd rather lynch you than a likely town in Sili since YOU didn't help me get DPR lynched

 

So cry to a mirror yo

 

 

Des im not even caught up! im currently on page 74.  and im posting inbetween calls. 

 

and all the red says is that poor widdle Dessiepoo didnt get his way  so hes gonna have a tanty and lynch someone for stupid reasons

 

This is probably null but I don't think I've ever seen dice this antagonistic or off balance.  It's simply odd behavior.

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:33 AM, Songstress said:

I'm completely fine with a Sili lynch, as previously indicated he's in my bottom two.

[V]##Sili [/v]

.....

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:46 AM, Songstress said:

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:37 AM, Despothera said:

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:33 AM, Songstress said:

I'm completely fine with a Sili lynch, as previously indicated he's in my bottom two.

[V]##Sili [/v]

Ugh @ this vote too

Wilves popping out the woodwork to lazily pile on the lynch that Wombat pushed through like a coward instead of following thru with a vote on DPR like he said he would

Ugh right back at you.

DPR is still very much on my radar, dear, and night actions may still sort him out.

So you don't get what you wanted D1. Let's see what D2 brings.

 

Des fairly hit the nail on the head with that and Tress saying "Night actions may sort him out" is really strange.  

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 1:51 AM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/14/2014 at 12:35 AM, Stelio Kontos said:

The funny thing is I can't even really articulate a single reason why Sili is an objectively bad lynch; it just feels wrong in this moment.

Lack of traction.

We can just lynch Pral. Arsis was not playing his normal Town game and Pral can't even bother to play his slot. At least Sili is engaging the thread and looking like normal Sili to me.

 

Yates prob townspews Laya here.  I don't normally like spew arguments but between the shifts in votes (btw final VC was the second one I posted except for that Tress switch) and this statement I think that's a reasonable assumption.

 

 

 

 

In summary through D1 I garnered a list of suspects that are still living.  I've got Cass and Des as clearer townies or at almost definitely not mafia and Thane has fallen back down my list as has Nyn and Dice.  Those three are my current bottom three based on EoD D1 alone.  Tress didn't do much better but I don't have enough to go on with her from D1 and Rags wasn't around so he, somewhat unfairly, gets an exemption from this though I expect that to clear up soon.

[Darthe]

  On 11/20/2014 at 1:15 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

the way i feel for the moment, i'd probably go for Rags>Cass>Tress>Dice

Why do you so badly want a rags lynch?  I've not seen much reasoning for that beyond him not being active.    Also, thoughts on the other three since my analysis of EoD1?

 

  On 11/20/2014 at 5:11 PM, Songstress said:

Maybe it's just the tinfoily part of my brain speaking, but Darthe's analysis notwithstanding...

 

Does anyone else have the nagging feeling that we've witnessed a Kivam-style gambit being mentored by Kivam himself?  

Yes but buying into that right now seems dumb so I refuse to do it.  Later maybe but this isn't the time.  

 

  On 11/20/2014 at 5:45 PM, Nynaeve said:

I'll respond to your points when I get back, Darthe.

TBH you're going to need some great responses.  I don't get your play this game and it doesn't remind me of any time I've played with you before.

[Cass]

Damnit Darthe I was about to go to bed. I'm in blue. Some things I'd like to hear opinions on too.

 

*Some emoticons deleted due to 'too many in post' Also just had to delete part of the Des and Thane stuff - 'too many quoted blocks of text'.

 

 

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  On 11/20/2014 at 4:32 PM, Darthe said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:15 PM, Cass said:

 

*Caught up to page 65, Post #1290**

 

RECAP OF THOUGHTS / CURRENT LEAN ON KIV (as potential SCUM).

 

Basically after a review, I can't help but feel that Kiv really could be scum. Like DPR, his posts in general are well placed in the context of the game, but they also have a great mix of what I'm interpreting as truth and then a twist of scum. Kiv has been doing a great job of 'buddying' me in early threads and providing distraction (especially from the heat on Yates and DPR) as well as adding in general fluff along the way. I still like his recap posts and am definitely learning useful things through them , but... they’re not really ADVANCING the game, in a sense. And it makes me wonder if this is then mostly for distraction? (Don't stop them though, Kiv, they're pretty handy for catch-ups).

 

But I've been considering that posting these recap posts would make a handy tactic from a scum view too, since it has the advantage of winning emotional thanks points from Town struggling to keep up with the flow (worked on me) and it has the advantage of being able to carefully push a bias, all with that emotional thanks on board. This strikes me as important.  

 

Also, for some reason (similar to DPR) - although I feel I've been fairly active and contributing some thoughtful stuff (perhaps this is just because my brain has been going a million miles an hour on no sleep for the last however many days?),  there’s very little mentioned in Kiv's recaps about my contributions. He comments about me showing up and disappearing, and comments on things other players have said about me (and what he says in relation to these things IS true), but, after the initial buddying tone, REAL thoughts on me and what I've been putting down are missing although they're there for other players. Seems like basic misdirection.

 

Why is this commentary missing? Is it because I’m close to being on the money, and therefore safer to avoid?

 

I'm not asking this just because I’m personally curious -I am curious, but it's more than that, it’s mostly because I’m a noob and therefore naturally a ‘wild card’ to the game. In my mind, it would make sense that an experienced player, whose game play relies a lot on recapping and offering opinions on things would have had more to say about the way a newbie played and where they had them in their reads – at least as often as they did for other members of the game, but quite possibly more.

 

Example of most recent recap, including questions to me at the top/in the buddying stage, and then (where evaluation of my input is concerned) nothing of value thereafter, is here.

 

On top of this, like DPR, Kiv seems to be avoiding interacting with people that are calling his allegiance into question. Example of post from AJ here. 

 

It smells like scum 

 

@KIV / EVERYONE -  Thoughts?/Rebuttals?

 

 

Some of the random things that made me suspicious. (Thoughts and questions to be answered included). Kiv, please weigh in? I think your answers to some of these are also important to the Town... 

 

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 9:05 PM, Kivam said:

FYI, there are a few of us basically soaking up all the oxygen right now, and I am getting very, very leery of our coasters

Coming directly after a post where you make light of random nothings and potentially go for an emotional appeal to Town by posting a pic of tissues (link)… This looked odd and has a huge possibility of Wolf to me. Because, while on the surface it is valid (I agree people, POST!), PRACTICALLY speaking, I feel like it was ultimately an attempt to change the subject. I agree with the stuff you said to Des at the end of 1101 (same link as above), but you would have said that playing either way, and that is very consistent with what I've seen of your play so far so it doesn't really worry me. The tissues were not. They sparked my curiosity. And then a convenient change of subject? It's too early for me to tackle you but ... I think I'm pinging you now too...

 

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 10:36 PM, Kivam said:

This is going to sound absurd but I need to reread my recaps before giving a solid answer.  My gut (which isn't so much my gut as my memory of who was defended/defending/shifted/shifting) says Sili, but it could also be Darthe or Arsis (Praya now, but since he hasn't bothered playing, it's all Arsis [in fact, if it's a close call after re-read, I may be amenable to a policy-lynch of Praya given: (a) suspicions generated by Arsis; (b) the half-remembered connections; and © the odds that if he's a townie, we wouldn't be losing anything valuable anyway]).  Other info targets would be Yates and Des, but they are lower on my list, Yates because he's probably been dealt with by too many players to provide much of a focus and Des because of the same thought process in the opposite direction; he's so all over the place that there are likely links/breadcrumbs to half the game in his posts.

Why is lynching inactive people (Praya) a better idea than going with your gut against Sili?

 

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 10:39 PM, Kivam said:

Crap - the problem with responding from memory and forgetting the player list.  Thane.  Thane probably slots in very high on the "info lynch" scale given the focus on him earlier and the responses to it.  Might even be the number 1 info play.  Really have to review those recaps once I get home.

The post seemed meh. Could be that I'm wondering if you and DPR are actually the number 1 play..? Don't answer that, I know it could. How did you go with your recaps - any further thoughts here?

 

 

Lot of good questions @Kiv here from Cass.  

 

:) Thanks  

 

 

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  On 11/13/2014 at 1:29 PM, Cass said:

Yey! for my posts almost catching up with my brain! Just a post to do with my current reads, and then I'll get back to ISOs and questioning/responding to specific posts (Yates, don't cry, I'm making eyes at you  <3 )

 

 

OK.

 

 

Current Reads

 

Mostly Green

Des/Csarmi

Krak

AJ

 

Mostly Red

DPR

Kiv

Yates

 

Orange 

Wombat

Sili

 

 

Wanting/Waiting to hear more from:

Nyn

Praya

Dice

Darthe

Hallia

Leelou

Stelio

Thane

Tress

Verb

Yates

 

- - - - - - 

 

 

Have I missed anyone?

 

I'd like to hear some solid defense from/for the people I have in red and orange. Without it I'm leaning towards a vote anywhere in there.

 

If I have you in Green or Null, where exactly are you at? What else have you got for Town?

 

 

She put Kiv and Yates in her Red and said she wanted to hear more from Yates here.  Krak was in her green.  Paranoid Darthe says that Cass making it to F3 would make things harder for the town but my logical (and better) half says she is just good.  I think that the time Kivam said something about her beating us all in a few games sits with me wrong.  

 

Even last night, Krak blindsided me with his flip. I'll admit I hadn't looked too closely at him though   I don't know if you've seen it, but my thoughts on that particular comment Kiv made was that I thought the intention behind it was to cause exactly the sort of confusion you're expressing, at the same time as apparently buddying me. 

 

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  On 11/13/2014 at 1:38 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 12:17 PM, csarmi said:

If we're lucky, Nyn is gone by then and we can have a tête-à-tête.

I wore my dancing shoes!

Who are the three most interesting slots to you not named DPR?


 

  On 11/13/2014 at 11:52 AM, Cass said:

@ DPR - Even if you have no regard for how Des plays, it's not fair on the rest of Town to refuse to answer what he asks because you don't consider him to be an 'authority'. It's not about not getting into a flame war. For me it's about you providing us with more to read. You refusing to do that is Wolfy, IMO.

Ehh hemmm....
 

  On 11/13/2014 at 11:06 AM, Yates. said:

Cass - you're here. I'm here. Let's have a real time conversation? If you are thinking about voting me, and you are claiming it's because of the Seer Cover, and you are claiming to have read everyone's explanations, then I'd like to know if there's something else that's bothering you because THAT shouldn't be it.

Cheers.

  On 11/13/2014 at 12:05 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 11:52 AM, Cass said:

@EVERYONE
This ^, coupled with the fact that the idea of Kiv and DPR heading up a team of scum would probably be fantastic (gameplay wise obviously, not for Town), truly has me worried... I know second guessing the mod's devious ways is technically null, but it's (the mod's decision) also part of the human component of the game (as far as I can deduct, + when I asked, nobody told me otherwise), and therefore, I can't help but consider it in my train of thought 

Don't go there. This undercuts the credibility of your post a bit. There's like a 99.99% chance that Tommy just put all the names on a list and copy/pasted into random.org. That's how roles are typically "rolled."

So it's fine if you think they are scummy. Just don't think they are scummy because of mod shenanigans.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 12:15 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 12:13 PM, csarmi said:

Cause I'm so frustrated with this work I'm doing I might wanna do some chatting.

Sorry - I have to hop in the shower and get to work.  We can chat in like an hour?
 
I'm just super bummed that Cass is calling me scum but refusing to talk to me.  Makes me a sad panda.

 

???

...

???

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:15 PM, Cass said:

*Caught up to page 65, Post #1290**

???

...

???

 

 

I also find it difficult to believe that Yates would interact this much with a new scumbuddy but odd that he never actually does anything in his interactions.  Am I WIFOMing this whole thing?  Yes, yes I am.  Just to clarify though, I think that with the paranoid "I can think of scummy motivation for this" side of me included she is still at like 88% town here.  That's a lot of interaction and pressure to put on someone green as grass unless you expect them to carry you through the game and Yates/Kivam/Krak wouldn't have known that they would all be dead so quickly.

TELL ME ABOUT IT

 

 

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  On 11/12/2014 at 10:07 PM, Cass said:

** Read up to end of page 54 / Quote #1080**

 

 

@DES - I am definitely hooked and I did have trouble falling asleep. My daughter woke up at 530am and I just typed the word 'trouble' as trubble. Ruh-roh.   I've done a quick read through whilst the daughter is having breakfast and (currently by the end of the post) doing whatever I can keep her distracted doing and have made some notes on what you've said. They're not pretty but hopefully you get my drift.
 

Post 1021

I had a slightly negative vibe. I can't even remember what it was now, but the note I wrote was, word for word "?Trying too hard".

 

Post 1023

I'm split on this. I have you colour coded both red and green. I liked that you splits posts to manageable chunks - that was kind. But. Tone in specific response to my question rubs me the wrong way… If you're playing a smart Wolf game here, the following concerns me (numbered according to your system and my thoughts on each numbered point). 1. This could be you taking opportunity of my spills to align me further with Kiv … Risky (for me) if you're both playing wolf. 2. This could be defense of Yates. I STILL DON’T LIKE YATES' SEER CLAIM - EXPLANATION TOO THIN. 3. Along the lines of Kivam's post 1027, except that I am perhaps getting slightly concerned that you're tunneling here. Or wolfing, now. I'd like you to clear up which one.  If you're Town, I feel you're sitting on the fence on that question, based on how you think Yates would play, which doesn't work for me. As KIV pointed out earlier, doing this is dangerous. I guess what I really want from you now is a WHY are you feeling Yates is Town, with other reasons? Because I'm considering that the only reason he did what he did was because he was scum. For me, I see more sense in that than him doing it as Town, and so far, nobody has been able to clear this up for me to my satisfaction. Not Yates with the comments he made, not even you. I'm not saying defending him is wrong, but... if it's plausible that he would do it as scum, then it's plausible. I'm either tunneling and wrong, or I'm onto something. I'd like to see where this goes. So yeah, now I'm concerned - you wolfing? Don't get defensive, just have a look at where you think Yates lies and why, and then let me know with specific reasons, if you can find any, other than 'I don't think he's scum'. I'm stuck on this because so far, the logic everyone who's defending Yates is feeding me just doesn't seem to add up. Can you take another look and get back to me on this?
 

I'm not to worried about Thane's tone myself, but I'm keeping him on my radar. Thanks for the input, whatever it's worth  ;)

 

POST 1028

TBH I just skipped post 1028. Kid woke up 15 mins and I'm getting away with this quick reply, sort of, while I brush her off during breakfast. Mother of the year right here. I will try and come back and read it, but I'm skipping now because I still want DPR to answer. I think you've made a lot of points for him to answer to and if I were you I would probably just stop pushing for a while - to give him a bit of time and something specific to focus on and see what he replies. This could be why it feels like you're tunneling on this to some, and posting more on the subject in several different posts... I actually think it might make it easier for him to wriggle away if he's not Town. Which, again could have potential implications against you if he turns out to be Wolf. *Muses* I'd sit on DPR for a while, see what he has to say, and then move in with any more defense/new material. Sound fair?

 

POST 1049

RE Defense against Darthe suggesting I seemed overcoached - I appreciate the defense, but, TBH I actually didn't mind the angle Darthe was pushing against me at that point - I would have been questioning me too. Because I'm an unknown. But I think you'll find he was happy with my response, and I thought this was resolved :) ... Darthe, I don't have time to link, if you feel like or feel like I'm misrepresenting your read please jump on in.
RE The comment about some of us making a bigger deal about seer cover than anyone else in the game and the potential for that to be scummy - Fair. But as above, it's plausible that Yate's claim was scummy. It jumped out at me, and hasn't yet been cleared in my mind. Personally, I'm happy to sit on this for a while and see how that plays out. I think I've said that several times. But, if we're going to continue it, then as above on questions relating to your post 1023. I'm not sure if you're wolfing. Help me out.

 

@KIV - I haven't forgotten you, but you're potentially too big for me to tackle right now.  :P

 

@CSARMI – Post 1051 – yes to the possibility of DPR and Kivam being scum with each running interference. Thrilling/scary thought. Not sure where I stand yet, need  to go back and check.

@ EVERYONE – as a side note to this ^, how are players generally ‘randed’ by the mods? Because if they get to choose… Just a thought, but having this combination (DPR and Kiv as scum) would be something I would like to run if I was playing mastermind…  
@AJ – Hi :) your post 1069 and the comment that I’m susceptible for buddying, see above *g* Do you have any favourites for scum at this point (and why – with whatever it is you’re using for proof?). I’m not sure where I stand on you. Also, for whatever it’s worth on Dice and his content being low – I agree, although I’m leaning towards not making an issue of it yet because for all my recent activity I’m finding the timezone thing pretty hard so far (everything picks up somewhere around our midnight), and he’s an hour ahead of me. I’m not pushing it because as long as I’ve known him, he religiously goes to bed at 10pm.

 

@DICE -  get active. Please? I'm interested to see where you lie *g*. And also I don't know whether I want to love you forever or lynch you straight out for getting me involved in this game.

 

 

@EVERYONE - I'm thinking the best approach for me from here is to go back and re-read, take notes, and be ready for action after the N1 Lynch and Kill. If I even manage to catch up with reads, I probably won't post much more from here unless you specifically ask me something, or something jumps out enough to make me want to vote. In case I'm the one who dies, my top pics for Scum at this point are:

 

A Yates and Sili combo.

 

Maybe with Wombat and Des.

 

But I'm not adverse to the idea of Kiv and DPR, and it may actually make a LOT of sense (I just haven't had time to re-read them enough yet). They're my big ones to catch up on, and I can in no way rule them out just now/potentially ever   

I've given my reasons for the Yates and Sili combo above, Wombat is a little in the same boat. There was potentially something about posts his posts 837, 904 and 909. #929 I had as 'Valid, but the motive could be distancing because Yates and Sili are being locked/targeted'.

 

This is all just supposition and 'watching' for me at this point, which is why I haven't voted. And, (?unfortunately) I'll have to admit here that I'm including Des mostly because DPR did too. This isn't smart when I haven't finished rereading DPR (especially in the context of Kiv) but there you go. My current strongest scum reads are out there now.

 

See y'all 'soon'.

 

Make that 84%.  This post has good points but she linked people on D1 and there are a few things I have put in large bold that sit wrong.  I went through to bold the parts where she talks about a DPR/Kivam scum team for a reason.  Even with a little preface on how this game works and who's popular on DM etc how would she really know about their popularity in the context she is using it in?  We know they were different alignments in hindsight but this whole thing is weird.  As far as I know I can't quote it directly because of game rules (let me know if I can and I will - but if DICE is honest he should back me up here anyway) - Dice specifically told me on skype after they signed up that they are 'kinda considered gods'. That, coupled with the cleverness and ...arrogant?... tone of their posts was enough for me to go on there.  And maybe I shouldn't say it, but yes, I still think they would make a formidable pair on the same scum team - what? I'm not allowed to be devious at all??

 

 

 

Now that most of my digging into Cass thus far is wrapped up I want to pull a few things together.

 

@Cass, can you explain your tying these players together D1? 

I think I've done this in other longer posts (that are probably worded better) - check out this and the stuff I said to Kiv at EoD (since my concern about them potentially working together was still pretty alive at that point... even though I'd begun to think DPR may have been a Vig but anyway.. that's another story), but in short, yes. Both of them 'approached' me the same way - flattering my ego and 'subtly' scaring the Town at the same time. To me it seemed like they were working as a cohesive good-cop/bad-cop team. Kiv coming at me like a teacher, DPR coming at me with scorn.

 

What do you think of Des now that five of the six you mentioned have flipped?  

I still have him high on my list for SK atm, for same reasons I mentioned here 

 

Krak was inactive near the time of your reads list and you had him in the green.  Yates and Kivam were active and you had them in the red.  All three were wolves and Krak was essentially a sleeper.  How do you explain how well your reads list has matched up with the mafia teams' play this game? 

I'm not sure of what you mean by 'matched up with the team's play'? Makes sense to me that I had Yates and Kiv red, especially when they were active 'cos I'd witnessed them do stuff I thought/felt was dodgy. I had nothing on Krak 'cos I hadn't been following him/he hadn't done anything I'd read as off. Like I said, quite blindsided by that one (but I'm not sure what you're getting at? As Town, how would I judge him scum anyway, if he hadn't been active enough for me to read??)

 

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 1:54 PM, Despothera said:

I also found it kind of interesting that in Kivam's post about Sili being an info lynch, the vast majority of it talked about if Sili flipped scum. Basically his only observations if Sili flipped town was that he'd feel better about AJ

 

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However I feel a town flip on Sili would make DPR look REALLY bad imo for the way he soft pushed Sili, misrepped him, then later forgot the context in which he originally fos'd him, then continuously evaded direct questions from him

 

Again, yall prob just think this is crazy ol Despot jumping at shadows, but I find Kivam leaving out this piece of evidence to be supportive of those two being scum together

 

I don't think the bold could ever come from a scum!Des about his teammate.  Left this out of spoilers 'cos the blue here is actually something that concerns me about AJ at this point. Why would Kiv feel 'better' about AJ if Sili flipped town, and then vote him at the last EoD?

 

 

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  On 11/13/2014 at 3:08 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:04 PM, WWWwombat said:

Leelou, what don't you like about Darthe?  He seems pretty Darthe to me but I'm wavering.

I'm so confused with you this game.  Your opinions seem everywhere and you're taking crowd census a lot.  

 

Leelou usually is sus of me in early game and generally decides on me for sure by mid game.  

 

Looking back on it    Womby makes a lot of sense

 

 

 

 

 

  On 11/20/2014 at 4:47 PM, Darthe said:

 

Casper Slide Pt. 2

 

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  On 11/13/2014 at 3:14 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:13 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

don't like the wifom. day 4, you're still alive and i'm still alive i'll be more inclined to vote you now.

 

Only way I'm alive D4 is if Hally is scum.

 

Again womby, putting his peek in like this.

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:25 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 3:00 PM, Kivam said:

 DESlami says Krak is "jumping at straws" - agreed, though I'd say more "grasping" than "jumping" (why would one jump at a straw?).

 

lmfao!

 

I'm quoting almost anything I see involving Nyn with mafia.  There isn't much interaction between them at all and what does exist so far is insubstantial.  I agree.

 

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  On 11/13/2014 at 3:39 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

Wombat did post a good list, but i'd make some changes to it, like this: 

 

Likely Town

Thane Vakarian

WWWwombat

Andrej

Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx)

Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra

Yates

Cass (Mentored by manbat)

Leelou

Despot / csarmi Hydra

 

Hesitating

DreadPirateRoberts

Kivam

Stelio Kontos

dicetosser1

TheRagnarok

Darthe

 

Likely Wolf

Krakalakachkn
Sili Quirrels

Arsis Pralaya

Hallia

Null
Tress

 

This is about as good a list as i'm able to do right now. Still at work, and it's quite busy. Am reading thread though.

 

 

One scummer in each category.  @Thane I think I still hate this post.

TBH I still feel fairly uneasy about Thane. Maybe it's just that I have no meta on him, but he buddied everyone really quickly early on - felt like he was trying too hard (same thing beginning of D2)- and then seemed to get defensive quite quickly (especially weird over this and the following discussion with Des and verbal before and after here - ). I still haven't been able to find a good reason why only him and Krak voted Pral last EoD... But I don't know that I'm willing to move on him for the moment, in case I've missed something important/it's just how he usually plays.

 

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  On 11/13/2014 at 3:40 PM, Cass said:

Yates!

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 11:06 AM, Yates. said:

Cass - you're here. I'm here. Let's have a real time conversation? If you are thinking about voting me, and you are claiming it's because of the Seer Cover, and you are claiming to have read everyone's explanations, then I'd like to know if there's something else that's bothering you because THAT shouldn't be it.

Cheers.

*So, you're saying you're not actually the Seer??? Well, phew! Now if I vote you out, even if you end up being Town, knowing that is kinda a relief  

 

 

Also. Yey! I found you! (It was harder than it should be - I STILL can't actually figure out ISOs).

 

Ok, let's do this - and even if I've missed you and you're already off at work, I look forward to your reply. I'm going to try to get to bed in the next hour tonight - Don't hate me, it will be the first time before 3 or 4 am since I signed up for this thread    .

 

First - Dude, I haven't been actively ignoring you on purpose or as a ploy. I've been working my little butt off getting all of those other posts up so that what I'd offered to the Town had actually caught up with my brain.This catchup thing is killing me, I have no idea how anybody does it thoroughly and still manages to talk in real time too. My 'up to' notes at the top of my posts meant that I had scanned through and made mental notes about what to check out or comment on next. That's all, no need to get your knickers in a knot, posting sad pandas and crying gifs, even though they were slightly entertaining   . 

 

In answer to the questions in your post.

 

i) I am not claiming to have read everyone's explanations. I'm not that stupid, and I'm gonna be the first one to put my hand up and say I'm definitely missing stuff in this thread! That's why I keep asking for everyone's input, repeatedly.

 

ii) I agree that my concern over you claiming Seer/Providing Seer Cover so early in the game is not enough to confirm that you are scum. I never said it was. I said it concerned me a little, because it didn't make sense to me. I thought I'd explained clearly why I thought so along the line, but maybe I didn't. Either way, here's a direct copy of the notes page I was using at the time. That should clear up any confusion. NB to anyone planning on reading that - My 'Scummiest Reads' have changed since there. See post here for current thoughts.

 

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I asked two questions:

 

a) Is it usual for Yates to provide such OPEN Seer 'cover'?

b) How plausible is it (especially for those who have caught up and may have examples either way) that Yates may have been a Wolf posting ‘cover’ in the hopes of initiating other ‘peaks’/trying to find the Seer?

 

 

Csarmi answered the questions. Short and to the point. Yes and plausible.

 

Sili on the other hand, explained to me his take on Seer theory/made excuses for Yate’s claim. On two separate, separated posts. He seemed to be thinking about it too much. The theory on seer cover seemed fine. His excuses for Yates providing seer cover at a time I found awkward and wolfish were not.

Summary of his (Sili's) defence when questioned: (#823/834): Initiating seer cover is effective enough to gain Town cred (by covering the Seer, encouraging further ‘seer’ posts and making it ‘safer’ for the real Seer to post) but not effective enough at doing exactly that to “bear fruit” for the Wolves?

 

Followed by (post #840)

 

“A lot of players here have played in at least one game with a seer, so most should know better”, almost immediately contradicted by “If I were wolfpack I’d gamble that the real seer would be confused since he isn’t familiar with the strategy.”

 

Not cricket. Supposition

 

DPR jumps in and picks up what I’m putting down. 924, 927, 933 and 939  Points out stuff I didn’t read that further fuel my suspicions of Sili/Yates.

 

Yates appears, posts concisely, quoting my questions, but then mis-answers, centers everything on explaining the basics of Seer theory instead of responding to my questions on his motives.

 

Wwwwwombat #837 – same thing. BUT THEN BACKTRACKS LAST LINE, POST # 904???? 909 keeps goin… 929 Valid, but ? motive ? distancing because Yates and Sili getting heat?

DPR says DES did too.

 

?Scum team Sili, Yates, Wombat, Des.

 

 

 

What bothers me is not just that you hard-claimed Seer early. What bothers me is I find the idea of Town hard-claiming Seer at the point you did possibly less likely than the idea of Scum hard-claiming Seer at the point you did. You follow?

In addition to this:
 

- When questioned about why you did something that I thought may make you more likely to be scum, you didn't give me an explanation for your motives. You just rehashed some general theory that I thought it was obvious I already knew. Another possible point in the direction of Team Scum, under the banner of quoting half-truths and using them for misdirection.

 

In addition to:

- The fact that Sili looked/s rather scummy to me, and he seemed to be defending you, using tactics that were much the same.

 

In addition to:

- The fact that DPR mentioned a heap of stuff that made a lot of sense to me at the time, before I suspected gave a lot of value to the thought he could be wolf.

 

 

 

*Mindsplodes* 

[v] ##Sili [/v]

 

 

 

Yates - Thank you for posting this request to chat. Rereading to answer your questions has raised possibilities I had not considered   . Sili now ranks a good bit higher on my red scale than you. Enough so that I'm actually casting a vote, when I didn't think I would.

 

I would still appreciate answers to my concerns in case of future votes, though, because obviously you could still be part of scum team, working with Sili, and this doesn't make you clear of my suspicions relating directly to you. 

 

 

*Collapses*

Bare with me here.  We know Cass is at least half wrong but that's not the point I'm making.  

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 4:20 PM, Cass said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 4:13 PM, WWWwombat said:

What if, and bear with me here, Cass wrote Cass' posts?

 

 

 

*shock horror*

You mean I'm Town???

 

Though this is a point she shouldn't have made.  TBH, I knew I shouldn't have been so sarcastic at the time, but I was getting a little annoyed that people were questioning whether I'd written my own posts/saying they were 'too clever' in case it came from Scum.. I was trying to be jovial, but in truth that was me toning my frustration down, too   

 

*** Link here cos DM told me too many blocks of quoted text 

Here we go!  Much like I think there is such thing as mafia not wanting to interact with teammates too much I also hold the opinion that when mafia overdoes interaction with someone it makes that person more likely to be town.  I don't think, in this particular scenario, that Yates would ever have interacted with a new teammate this much on D1.  Is that circumstantial?  Yes.  Are there flaws that allow Cass to be mafia?  Yes, especially if her amazing powers of deduction dropped off when the scum team died, Not sure I get this logic - if I'm good at finding inconsistencies in people's posts and tone that make them feel like scum to me, then it kind of makes sense (at least to me) that I'm struggling now...  but this entire series of interactions links her to that team FAR too much to be likely given everything that we know.  

 

Cass looks clear to me.  Not as clear as Des from these interactions but certainly more so than most would be.

 

 Yey!

 

RE the big and bold ^ - What are your thoughts on this maybe being what's happening with AJ??

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post Darthe, agree with most points thanks.

[Cass]

  On 11/20/2014 at 5:09 PM, Songstress said:

 

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  On 11/20/2014 at 3:46 PM, Cass said:

AJ I disagree with the vote thing.

 

Hallia and DPR voted Kiv and AJ respectively at exactly the same time: 1149 by AEST , tying them at 4 votes each.

 

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  On 11/18/2014 at 1:49 AM, Hallia said:

I don't think AJ is mafia.

 

I'm not the most informed on Kivam, but between the two

 

##Vote: Kivam

 

 

  On 11/18/2014 at 1:49 AM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/18/2014 at 1:40 AM, Tommyrod said:

Vote Count D2.19:

 

Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

AJ (2): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785]

Pral (1): Thane [#1931]

Cass (1): Wombat [#2631]

Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]

Darthe (1): Wombat [#2816]

 

Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]

 

Not Voting (4): Hallia, Krak, Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

##Unvote Wombat

 

##Vote AJ

 

Call for mod specification on votes Deslami (#2623) vs. Saladtosser (#2202) whom I believe to be the same voter.

 

 

 

I then voted Kiv at 11:53, which meant Kiv took the lead..

 

 

  On 11/18/2014 at 1:53 AM, Tommyrod said:

Vote Count D2.21:

 

Kivam (5): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728], Hallia [#2835], Cass [#2837]

AJ (4): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785], Wombat [#2823], DPR [#2836]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Dicetosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

Pral (2): Thane [#1931], Krak [#2826]

 

Not Voting (2): Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

 

Bold purple: Actually, that's not quite accurate.  Let me quote all the relevant posts...

 

  On 11/18/2014 at 1:45 AM, Tommyrod said:

Vote Count D2.20:

 

Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

AJ (3): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785], Wombat [#2823]

Pral (2): Thane [#1931], Krak [#2826]

Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]

 

Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]

 

Not Voting (3): Hallia, Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

Kivam, Verbarm and AJ had 3 votes each at this point, and Kivam had taken the lead first, so he was still in the lead...

 

Then, with the SAME timestamp, so within a minute of one another, 11 minutes before deadline...

 

 

  On 11/18/2014 at 1:49 AM, Hallia said:

I don't think AJ is mafia.

 

I'm not the most informed on Kivam, but between the two

 

##Vote: Kivam

 

 

  On 11/18/2014 at 1:49 AM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/18/2014 at 1:40 AM, Tommyrod said:

Vote Count D2.19:

 

Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

AJ (2): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785]

Pral (1): Thane [#1931]

Cass (1): Wombat [#2631]

Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]

Darthe (1): Wombat [#2816]

 

Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]

 

Not Voting (4): Hallia, Krak, Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

##Unvote Wombat

 

##Vote AJ

 

Call for mod specification on votes Deslami (#2623) vs. Saladtosser (#2202) whom I believe to be the same voter.

 

 

 

  On 11/18/2014 at 1:49 AM, Cass said:

Lol Wom you and Kiv are screwing with my head so bad! *g*

 

I see both of you voted Sili last round...

 

 

[v]##Kiv[/v]

 

The next vote count, 7 minutes before deadline...

 

 

  On 11/18/2014 at 1:53 AM, Tommyrod said:

Vote Count D2.21:

 

Kivam (5): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728], Hallia [#2835], Cass [#2837]

AJ (4): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785], Wombat [#2823], DPR [#2836]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Dicetosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

Pral (2): Thane [#1931], Krak [#2826]

 

Not Voting (2): Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

 

Kivam never lost the lead, and with the plurality vote rules even if it had ended on a tie, he would have been the lynch unless AJ had pulled ahead of him at some point. 

 

The thing that has me concerned here is that with the bother of going back and quoting posts and checking timestamps on the other votes to defend herself against AJ's suggestion, she doesn't quote her own post and specifically gives the wrong time for her own vote.

 

This seems really damn fishy.

 

 

 

My bad, on two accounts.

 

I was just looking at the numbers on the trains tbh, and the time I quoted when I went back looking for the post was the time at the top of the vote count. 

[Cass]

At EoD I was kinda flustered. And tonight it's already 4am. Not the best excuses/reasons, but they're all I've got. 

[Thane Vakarian]

For the moment, Rags has done little to nothing to help town..... do you remember anything from him this game? i don't. My opinionis that he is a big questionmark, that shows up more or less around EOD, and then disappears again. 

 

i can't really go through large WoT's at work, which i'd need to do to understand your thoughts. 

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm only around for like, 1.5 now, then i will not be back untill tomorrow (unless i get killed this night).... and rush hour at work starts.. 

[Pralaya]

  Quote

Pralaya, on 13 Nov 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

Ok, so far, in the initial part of the game, my strongest scum read is Tress

 

Other than her initial random posts, her first few posts are agreeing with Des (a lot) and going after an easy target Sili. Both of them stood out because in her recaps these were the only two people she responded to, which felt very weird. Looks like she is hardcore white knighting Des, which makes me think she is scum.

 

Other than that, town read on Wombat, Csarmi, Nyn.

 

Sili is kind of weird, which surprisingly is a town tell for him. But will have to keep an eye on him. Thane does seem town but not as instinctive as he usually is.

Most of the players I have not played with Cass, Kiva, DPR are kind of null so far.

Hey laya looking back on it what do you think of this post? Can you explain the rationale?

Her D1 posts looked quite scummy to me. At that point, I think she had 7 posts in total - out of which 2 posts were directed at Sili, who was the leading wagon at the time and I found it a bit convenient to go at him. The rest 2-3 posts were kind of buddying or agreeing with Des. This I found quite scummy at the time.

[csarmi]

Umm. I gotta reread Dice. But i is lazy.

 

Damn you Darthe you make good points.

[csarmi]

Darthe how do you feel about Tress reads progression?

[Cass]

  On 11/20/2014 at 5:38 PM, Darthe said:

 

Clap, clap, clap, clap your hands

 

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:32 PM, Nynaeve said:

I think this is hilarious, Des. Cause you're basically underestimating her and saying there's no way she could fake this as scum considering it's her first game. But the word on the street is that she's a prodigy that's gonna be upstaging us all soon, according to Kivam.... so I think I'm gonna size her up the same way I size up everyone else. ktanks.

Why would you base your perspective on Kivam's thoughts?  Implicit here is that you trusted him entirely.  

 

 

 

 

I initially took this as Nyn just being upfront.

 

But now that I look at it again, buried in the middle is the same tone/potential strategy that put me off about Kiv: "She's a prodigy: Be afraid."

 

(Please don't be afraid, I'm not that scary!)

[Darthe]

I've not really looked into it enough Salami, unless you're specifically talking about what I quoted compared to now?  I'd need to see them side by side tbh.

[Darthe]

  On 11/20/2014 at 6:11 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  Quote

Pralaya, on 13 Nov 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

Ok, so far, in the initial part of the game, my strongest scum read is Tress

 

Other than her initial random posts, her first few posts are agreeing with Des (a lot) and going after an easy target Sili. Both of them stood out because in her recaps these were the only two people she responded to, which felt very weird. Looks like she is hardcore white knighting Des, which makes me think she is scum.

 

Other than that, town read on Wombat, Csarmi, Nyn.

 

Sili is kind of weird, which surprisingly is a town tell for him. But will have to keep an eye on him. Thane does seem town but not as instinctive as he usually is.

Most of the players I have not played with Cass, Kiva, DPR are kind of null so far.

Hey laya looking back on it what do you think of this post? Can you explain the rationale?

Her D1 posts looked quite scummy to me. At that point, I think she had 7 posts in total - out of which 2 posts were directed at Sili, who was the leading wagon at the time and I found it a bit convenient to go at him. The rest 2-3 posts were kind of buddying or agreeing with Des. This I found quite scummy at the time.

 

K what do you think about it now and how'd your thoughts change (if they have)

[Darthe]

@Cass that thing you quoted with the big blue letters is sorta messed up.  I can't really make heads or tails of it so sorry if I miss something here.  There's a theory in mafia, one known by most because it is the siggy of a fairly famous player (BLFG or Rayne for those of you who know him), that says that scum sub or unconsciously try to avoid one another.  I happen to agree.  If mafia want to interact they have to go out of their way to do so and it should be harder for new players to accomplish that well.  Based on what I've seen in this game the wolves interacted with you a ton.  Some might take that negatively and say they were going out of their way to, implicit being that you are scum.  I say differently.

 

For me to believe you mafia you'd have had to have had a D1 plan of interacting with your teammates heavily that assumed your teammates were going to die so you could be tied to them WIFOMing you and creating disparity in a slot where Yates and Kivam left their fate in the hands of someone on their first mafia game with nothing going for them save a first impression that was really good.  I just don't buy it.  There are too many logical holes that one has to jump through in that scenario.  You could be mafia and this all be coincidental but atm I don't think so, occasional bad posts not withstanding.

[Cass]

  On 11/10/2014 at 6:01 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

Stelio, i'm looking forward to getting to know you as a player. I believe it's also our first game together. 

 

I do see some people mentioning Darthe... interesting. 

 

Thane, this is from way back towards beginning of D1. What'd you find... interesting?

 

How d'you feel about Darthe now?

[csarmi]

Am I voting Dice yet?