[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[Yates]

I've said more than once that Tommy and Leelou are my town leans.

I guess I'm just asking you how strong that lean is.

 

You've referred to people that were leaning on Clov. I know there are a couple more people voting him, but at the end of the day it was Tommy and me that pushed him the most.

Okay? So? I haven't actually followed up on this yet. I didn't even know you were one of the main people pushing his wagon. If you have Town motivation for pushing it, what do you care? You'll be able to provide a Town explanation for anything you did and we can move on to figuring the rest of the game out. This is an over reaction.

[Tommyrod]

Nyn - Did you see this?

 

Were I to vote Thane and find he flips scum, it would be paramount to admitting defeat. I cannot allow myself to suffer such moral injustice.

I get toying with Des a bit given their relationship. But I don't recall Tommy ever ranking Hally as a bigger scum suspect than Thane. A Thane scum flip would look bad for him. It's a fact.

It goes back to my "Thane not even trying to get heat off him anymore is somewhat unlikely to be a scum play" theory mixed with remembering what Hallia has done so far. I wouldn't cry if Thane was lynched though.

[Tommyrod]

I mean there's also a tinge of not wanting Des to be right but I'm not actually basing my actions on that.

[Nynaeve]

Nyn - Did you see this?

Were I to vote Thane and find he flips scum, it would be paramount to admitting defeat. I cannot allow myself to suffer such moral injustice.

I get toying with Des a bit given their relationship. But I don't recall Tommy ever ranking Hally as a bigger scum suspect than Thane. A Thane scum flip would look bad for him. It's a fact.

 

 

I don't understand. You were talking about Clov's flip... how are we suddenly talking about Thane?

 

So if Clov flips doc in the morning... that looks bad for people who were on Clov's wagon?  This is FALSE. Clov was not acting like TownieClov. Not to say that there couldn't be a wolf on his train but considering Clov's play, his train could very easily be only townies as well. Generally speaking, a doc turning up dead after claiming is a bottomless pit of WIFOM. Scum's first priority is to get rid of the doc. And I don't think it's necessarily connected to who was or wasn't on his train. And it's slimy to suggest otherwise.

 

Then you're saying that if Thane flips scum, it would make Tommy look bad. You're basically planting reasons to mislynch Tommy later on.

 

If I remember right Tommy had a townish read on Thane and obviously a scum read on Clov. Clov just claimed doc and didn't get CCed. So I could see how this would be frustrating to Tom, because I'm feeling the frustration myself considering Clov is by far the scummiest player in the game, imo. So it would stand to reason that he would be even more frustrated if he mistakenly read Thane as town and ends up possibly being wrong for the second time... he hates being wrong. We all do. Being wrong sucks.

 

 

I'm getting a feeling that you're doing a lot 'if this person flips X, then that would make Y look bad. And you're gonna come back to this on D2 to throw dirt on someone. Prolly Tommy. And it's coming across as wolfy.

[Yates]

It goes back to my "Thane not even trying to get heat off him anymore is somewhat unlikely to be a scum play" theory mixed with remembering what Hallia has done so far. I wouldn't cry if Thane was lynched though.

So you DO have Hally as a stronger scum read than Thane? I remember you saying something similar to the last sentence in the past earlier when we were discussing the merits of a Thane vs Clov lynch. That's why I thought you'd just jump on Thane after Clov claimed Doc.

[Nynaeve]

Suffice to say I'm interested to see what you do after we get some flips. I'll be watching! 

[Yates]

I don't understand. You were talking about Clov's flip... how are we suddenly talking about Thane?

I have the two as different sides of the same coin. Earlier we were debating between lynching Thane and Clov. Des took a hard stance on Thane and Tommy took a hard stance on Clov. When I voted Thane I said it was because I'd rather be wrong on Thane than Clov. This is something Tommy has done in the past with AJ, if you recall. I brought that up when discussing the two wagons because really that was the deciding factor for me. Tommy joked about me being the serpent and Thane being the forbidden fruit. So I thought the only reason he wasn't on Thane was because he felt more strongly about Clov. When Clov claimed Doc? I would have expected Tommy to be like "my bad" and vote Thane, who seemed to be his second choice for scum. Do you see why I would be confused and also why I would be concerned about Tommy if Thane does in fact flip scum?

[Yates]

Suffice to say I'm interested to see what you do after we get some flips. I'll be watching! 

And I've been an exhibitionist this whole game. I've pulled down the curtains so EVERYONE can see what's going on behind the scenes at the Yates Show. In other words; enjoy.

[Nynaeve]

Not really. You're the one who said that between Thane and Clov you'd rather risk mislynching Thane over Clov, cause Clov is more of a valuable player as town. Tommy said that out of the two, he's more sure of Clov. That doesn't automatically mean that Thane would be his second scum lean choice. 

[Tommyrod]

 

It goes back to my "Thane not even trying to get heat off him anymore is somewhat unlikely to be a scum play" theory mixed with remembering what Hallia has done so far. I wouldn't cry if Thane was lynched though.

So you DO have Hally as a stronger scum read than Thane? I remember you saying something similar to the last sentence in the past earlier when we were discussing the merits of a Thane vs Clov lynch. That's why I thought you'd just jump on Thane after Clov claimed Doc.

I've discussed this in some length already. If you want to think of it this way: I think Thane has a lower chance of flipping scum than Hallia, but either could be scum.

[Hallia]

I hear these same arguments, and mostly of the time in town, like I am now. I go with my gut, and if it leads me all around, then so be it.

[Kaylee]

Mod announcement: Kronos has to back off of modding due to RL issues. He will still be around when he can be though. As a result I've asked Tress to step in and help me mod. Welcome Tress! I've added her to the role PMs.

 

 

Another side note, please keep an eye out for replies from the Mods in your role PMs. That's the easiest way for us to get ahold of you.

[Yates]

So if Clov flips doc in the morning... that looks bad for people who were on Clov's wagon?  This is FALSE.

No. It really isn't false. You are feeling defensive because you think I'm targeting you or something. Take a step back and look at this from an external perspective. The fact of the matter is that it's no different from if he had been mislynched. Sure, there are valid reasons for Town being on his wagon. Doesn't matter. You'd still want to look at the wagon because it wasn't on scum. Then you'd want to know who is on the wagon for the right reasons and who is on the wagon for little to no reason. Am I wrong? I don't think so. Sure, me saying "this wouldn't look good for the people pushing this wagon" was a bit simplistic but this is basically what I was getting at in far fewer words.

 

Clov was not acting like TownieClov. Not to say that there couldn't be a wolf on his train but considering Clov's play, his train could very easily be only townies as well. Generally speaking, a doc turning up dead after claiming is a bottomless pit of WIFOM. Scum's first priority is to get rid of the doc. And I don't think it's necessarily connected to who was or wasn't on his train. And it's slimy to suggest otherwise.

I don't even know what you are trying to accuse me of here. I'm not saying it's any better or worse for the people on the wagon if Clov flips Doc - I'm saying it looks bad because he's Town. I fully expect him to be NKed if he's telling the truth [barring a self protect saving himself and the Town from a kill]. THAT is the only reason I mentioned anything about his flip come day break. At that point, he'd be confirmed Town.

 

Then you're saying that if Thane flips scum, it would make Tommy look bad. You're basically planting reasons to mislynch Tommy later on.

Again, you are assuming Tommy would e a mislynch. Why? I get that you have him as a Town lean but would this be the first time in the history of mafia you've been wrong about a Town lean before? Given the scenario I just posted above about how the Thane and Clov wagons went down while I was involved, are you saying that a Thane scum flip and a Clov Doc flip would have absolutely no influence on your Tommy read? I don't believe that for a second.

 

If I remember right Tommy had a townish read on Thane and obviously a scum read on Clov.

Nope. Look at Tommy's posts even from this page.

 

Clov just claimed doc and didn't get CCed. So I could see how this would be frustrating to Tom, because I'm feeling the frustration myself considering Clov is by far the scummiest player in the game, imo. So it would stand to reason that he would be even more frustrated if he mistakenly read Thane as town and ends up possibly being wrong for the second time... he hates being wrong. We all do. Being wrong sucks.

I agree. Being wrong sucks. As long as you are wrong for the right reasons? You should be able to explain yourself and move on.

 

I'm getting a feeling that you're doing a lot 'if this person flips X, then that would make Y look bad. And you're gonna come back to this on D2 to throw dirt on someone. Prolly Tommy. And it's coming across as wolfy.

You're getting that feeling because that's what I'm doing. I'm straight up saying that if Thane flips scum, then that would make Tommy look bad. That's not wolfy. That's how I'd interpret that information. That's a fact.

[Yates]

I've discussed this in some length already. If you want to think of it this way: I think Thane has a lower chance of flipping scum than Hallia, but either could be scum.

Okay. Am I wrong to think that you said something like this with regards to Clov and Thane back during the serpent and the apple discussion?

[Yates]

This is disheartening. I thought there were more good towns, but as it turns out I can't trust 2 people's opinions because I know they're so biased or messed up that they might as well be lying.

Well, you can trust me. Talk to me. Make me feel better about your slot.

 

Here's something we can talk about, for example:

and to be frank, even if they don't, clov is still sketchy. what if there is no doc?

How do you guys treat uncced Doc claims on Day 1 where you typically play?

[Yates]

@Tommy - I just got to this post.

I do have to go to sleep.

 

Hallia please tell me why I should lynch Thane over you.

 

And feel better.

So okay. I'll see if I see anything else after this indicating your interest in pursuing a Hally!scum angle

[Tommyrod]

 

I've discussed this in some length already. If you want to think of it this way: I think Thane has a lower chance of flipping scum than Hallia, but either could be scum.

Okay. Am I wrong to think that you said something like this with regards to Clov and Thane back during the serpent and the apple discussion?

You are not wrong. At one point I said we should let Clov be resolved by NAs but then he just kept getting dirtier and dirtier. He's a filthy boy.

[Tommyrod]

@Tommy - I just got to this post.

 

I do have to go to sleep.

 

Hallia please tell me why I should lynch Thane over you.

 

And feel better.

So okay. I'll see if I see anything else after this indicating your interest in pursuing a Hally!scum angle

Thanks for letting us know that you're being extra thorough.

 

[/sarcasm]

[Kaylee]

Mod announcement: Rule 14 has been changed. Now it's only half the number of the most active Mod's posts. This won't take effect until THE END OF DAY 2.

[Yates]

You're welcome [not sarcasm]. At least you know where I'm at wrt last night's posts. I saw something that supports your vote - contrary to what I was thinking - so I'm acknowledging the post.

[Tommyrod]

You're welcome [not sarcasm]. At least you know where I'm at wrt last night's posts. I saw something that supports your vote - contrary to what I was thinking - so I'm acknowledging the post.

But you're telling me what I already know and you're not doing it in a manner I find... organic. It comes off as "hey look at all the #work I'm doing!"

[csarmi]

Umm.

 

I prefer not to lynch Hally or Thane.

Clov sounds genuine. Not pursuing.

 

I'm having a bad day and I won't be around. I'm not 100% on the rodent anymore but I still like my vote.

[csarmi]

Tommy is down to 80.

[Nynaeve]

I think Yates already knows Thane is gonna flip scum. And this means Clov might be telling the truth too. His premature comments come across as if he's trying to be one step ahead in the events of Thane getting lynched. If this is really what he would conclude upon Thane's flip... then why not wait for the day to be concluded... see who actually gets lynched... SEE the flip... and then make an educated conclusions. The fact that he's mentioning it at this point is a reference point he'll come back to later if and when Thane gets lynched.

 

Oh well. At least this means Thane prolly is scum. So there is that.

[csarmi]

Kaylee is the votecount correct? I have only Clov on me and two votes.

 

Why is Clov on me BTW when he said Tommy was sure scum?!