[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[Alanna]

Despo, I just don't see how Hallia has "cleared herself more" recently. Take another look at her reread posts - there is so little to them and a lot of what she says comes off forced. Are you seriously saying those posts put her in the clear for you? And she has said little to nothing of substance since then. I just don't get what you're seeing from her right now.

[hazelkrs1]

 

I'm pretty conflicted between Clov and Thane right now, but ultimately, I think on D1 I should be rewarding what I see as town play and punishing what I see as scummy play. Thane's play seems much scummier than Clov's to me. Wanna find that VT claim tom mentioned before voting though.

If you search him for "VT" it should come up

Can't search for less than 3 characters

[Clovdyx]

I'll put my money where my mouth is on you, Tom.

 

[unvote]

[V]Tommyrod[/v]

 

You've done nothing this game to discern my alignment.  I thought you pushing me early based on the Leelou think was towntelling, but it's looking more like I gave you something to work with so you went at me.  If you genuinely had interest in figuring out the correct way to read me, I don't see the grounds for your earlier claim that I've said nothing towntelling this game.  Your assessment of me as a player completely clashes with your approach of me this game.

 

 

Here's my problem Clov: you are an analytical player. You like logic. I am an emotional / behavioral player. I like intent. I think you might be technically and logically/i] correct that Salami really makes very little sense at times and the things you're arguing are scummy about him are scummy in a vacuum. But despite that I find you to be the scummier of the two during your spats because of how you can't see that his play is too uncalculated and too haphazard if he's scum. So you can be correct that he's scummy in a vacuum and still and be scum pushing a point that you believes in because you think the townie should be lynched for bad play and are mad it isn't happening. Do you understand how that's possible, even likely, from my POV?

 

 

Bold suggests that I'm not completely off basis in reading Csarmi as scum - at least SOME of the things he's done this game point in that direction.  If you thought I was completely making things up against him, you've had plenty of time this game to do so.  You haven't.  So I'm obviously not just misinterpreting everything and making a bad conclusion from it.  Doesn't mean I'm RIGHT about him, but I have plenty of incentive to like my chances.

 

 

 

How many people that know Salami pretty well have told you he's more likely to be town? 

One of his huge scum tells last game was that he didn 't get emotional. He's just a very emotional person and takes personal affronts to heart as town. There's several little things sprinkled on top like sandwiches and the fact that he's still here and fighting against your scurrilous slander and the fact that he's a strong counter wagon to one of the scummy players in this game and you've got a probable townie cake. Last game he and I could read Tress as town despite her never even commenting on the game, just being upset. Some play doesn't make sense as scum and like Sili I think making himself a lightning rod of negative attention qualifies.

So I should discount my read, based on his gameplay, due to the metaread of people whose alignment I don't know? Stop it. AJ and you are PROBABLY town (more convinced on AJ than you based on how you've been approaching me lately)...but you're both good enough to be convincing early. You're also both bad enough that you can be wrong if town - just like anybody else. I certainly could be wrong about him, but his play makes me confident enough to take that risk.


Also, LOL at "your scurrilous slander". Great job.

Yes. You should. And I think you are good enough to tell the difference between genuine and forged meta reads. Read more here if you've forgotten how to play: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=27781512&postcount=3

 

  

It's coming from Tom who thinks when multiple people are explaining to you how your top scum read is likely to flip town based on our collective meta understanding of him as a player, you should re-evaluate your read and find another wolf.

 

 

So here you tell me I should just completely abandon my read.  But you basically just said that Town!Clov doesn't consider that possibility he's wrong.  I'm always right about everything.  So how is it that you've decided to push me as scum after unwavering on my scum reads this game without being given reason to do so?  My logic isn't bad (your own admission), and my refusal to give into your pleas to abandon my reads is strongly towntelling.

[Sili Quirrels]

how do you iso?

[hazelkrs1]

Despo, I just don't see how Hallia has "cleared herself more" recently. Take another look at her reread posts - there is so little to them and a lot of what she says comes off forced. Are you seriously saying those posts put her in the clear for you? And she has said little to nothing of substance since then. I just don't get what you're seeing from her right now.

There's never going to be much to her posts. She doesn't support her reads well with words or logic, she's mainly an intuitive player

 

Point is she defended herself, started trying to contribute more, and has stayed posting, and well that makes her very unlikely to be a wolf here. She doesn't like being scum and after getting some heat off her would have likely slunked off and stopped participating as much beyond fluff here and there

[hazelkrs1]

Despo, I just don't see how Hallia has "cleared herself more" recently. Take another look at her reread posts - there is so little to them and a lot of what she says comes off forced. Are you seriously saying those posts put her in the clear for you? And she has said little to nothing of substance since then. I just don't get what you're seeing from her right now.

There's never going to be much to her posts. She doesn't support her reads well with words or logic, she's mainly an intuitive player

 

Point is she defended herself, started trying to contribute more, and has stayed posting, and well that makes her very unlikely to be a wolf here. She doesn't like being scum and after getting some heat off her would have likely slunked off and stopped participating as much beyond fluff here and there

[Tommyrod]

When is confidence real and heartfelt, and when is it faked bravado? When is it scum doubling down on a bad read? How can someone tell the difference?

 

I open the floor to debate.

[Clovdyx]

Not accurate. you've taken these quotes out of context.

 

I don't know what's wrong with you... maybe you're giving up.

 

 

 

What possible context could I be missing?  You give a scum list, and then two hours later, organize your reads in groups that don't make any sense based on the list you just provided.  Reads evolve.  But they can't evolve out of NOTHING.  

 

Please, show me what made you suddenly change your mind.

[Clovdyx]

how do you iso?

 

If you look near the upper right corner of the page, there's a magnifying glass.  Click that (don't type anything in the search box).  A form will come up, and if you type the person's name in the "author" or "poster" section it should bring back all their posts.

[Clovdyx]

When is confidence real and heartfelt, and when is it faked bravado? When is it scum doubling down on a bad read? How can someone tell the difference?

 

I open the floor to debate.

 

When do you address legitimate arguments against you?

[Sili Quirrels]

thanks

 

Not accurate. you've taken these quotes out of context.

 

I don't know what's wrong with you... maybe you're giving up.

 

 

 

What possible context could I be missing?  You give a scum list, and then two hours later, organize your reads in groups that don't make any sense based on the list you just provided.  Reads evolve.  But they can't evolve out of NOTHING.  

 

Please, show me what made you suddenly change your mind.

 

choose someone else please. i dont want to deal with this.

 

besides, im not a good target. finger point better at somebody else.

[Sili Quirrels]

even if you convince tom, you probably won't convince me.

[Alanna]

 

Despo, I just don't see how Hallia has "cleared herself more" recently. Take another look at her reread posts - there is so little to them and a lot of what she says comes off forced. Are you seriously saying those posts put her in the clear for you? And she has said little to nothing of substance since then. I just don't get what you're seeing from her right now.

There's never going to be much to her posts. She doesn't support her reads well with words or logic, she's mainly an intuitive player

 

Point is she defended herself, started trying to contribute more, and has stayed posting, and well that makes her very unlikely to be a wolf here. She doesn't like being scum and after getting some heat off her would have likely slunked off and stopped participating as much beyond fluff here and there

 

 

See, I just feel like she hasn't had much but fluff here and there. I get that there's not a lot to her posts, but she seems fluffier than usual to me.

 

And frankly? If she is town, I think she should try more. Lord knows I used to get a lot of flack for only going off gut feelings, so I started putting more effort into discerning the reasons behind those feelings and giving more off my reads. I'd like to see her do the same.

 

[Clovdyx]

thanks

 

Not accurate. you've taken these quotes out of context.

 

I don't know what's wrong with you... maybe you're giving up.

 

 

 

What possible context could I be missing?  You give a scum list, and then two hours later, organize your reads in groups that don't make any sense based on the list you just provided.  Reads evolve.  But they can't evolve out of NOTHING.  

 

Please, show me what made you suddenly change your mind.

 

choose someone else please. i dont want to deal with this.

 

besides, im not a good target. finger point better at somebody else.

 

No.  It's YOUR read list.  You can either explain how they're formed, or I can assume you're just making them up as you see fit.

[Alanna]

Sorry, I'm a little crabby this evening, not feeling too well. I might be back in a bit.

[Hallia]

I've been sick since Thurs; I'm going off of gut and the things I've mentioned

[Clovdyx]

even if you convince tom, you probably won't convince me.

 

Even if I convince Tom you're scum, I probably won't convince you?  

Even if I convince Tom he's scum, I probably won't convince you?

[WWWwombat]

Clov, read and respond to posts 2512-2514 plz.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

thanks

 

Not accurate. you've taken these quotes out of context.

 

I don't know what's wrong with you... maybe you're giving up.

 

 

 

What possible context could I be missing?  You give a scum list, and then two hours later, organize your reads in groups that don't make any sense based on the list you just provided.  Reads evolve.  But they can't evolve out of NOTHING.  

 

Please, show me what made you suddenly change your mind.

 

choose someone else please. i dont want to deal with this.

 

besides, im not a good target. finger point better at somebody else.

 

No.  It's YOUR read list.  You can either explain how they're formed, or I can assume you're just making them up as you see fit.

 

leelou was on my yellow list for a long long time.

 

i explained why.

 

if you want, you could look for that why (it's only a couple pages ago), and i could respond to your criticisms then. but until you put actual effort into your fishing i don't want to put any into my defense.

[Tommyrod]

You don't have any yet. The posts you quoted above look good for me, if anything.

 

You are arguing that because you've been unwilling to yield, that equates with confidence... but there's a missing component.

 

Sincerity. It can be felt when a villager posts. It just happens naturally, it doesn't need to be massaged into a post or over-explained. You're struggling to make me believe you. You're falling back on old habits of hyper-narrow focus and semantic arguments; you're basically calling me a hypocrite. If that's the best you've got then it's not enough. It's not convincing.

 

And that's my ultimate crux on you: I have had success reading villa Clov pretty well for the past few months. He's not here. I'm not convinced. You sound like a liar to me and you haven't been able to talk me out of that feeling.

 

I don't know what else to tell you. I offered to let you show me what the best course of action is for the village and you came after me instead. You can try again if you're serious about getting me to read you differently.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

even if you convince tom, you probably won't convince me.

 

Even if I convince Tom you're scum, I probably won't convince you?  

Even if I convince Tom he's scum, I probably won't convince you?

 

Yeah. I'm almost certain you're scum. If not, I wouldn't mind in the slightest that you're lynched because you're not helping town at all.

[Clovdyx]

Clov, read and respond to posts 2512-2514 plz.

 

I don't see how it doesn't answer your question.  "The last statement ISN'T about you being town.  It's about snarkiness. "

 

Think about this.

 

I associate Leelou being snarky with her scum game, since I saw a lot of it in ABBA.  I've seen a little bit of it here.Nyn told me she's that way regardless of alignment.  Probably true, but I have minimal experience with Town!Leelou.  

[WWWwombat]

 

Clov, read and respond to posts 2512-2514 plz.

 

I don't see how it doesn't answer your question.  "The last statement ISN'T about you being town.  It's about snarkiness. "

 

Think about this.

 

I associate Leelou being snarky with her scum game, since I saw a lot of it in ABBA.  I've seen a little bit of it here.Nyn told me she's that way regardless of alignment.  Probably true, but I have minimal experience with Town!Leelou.  

 

 

Yeah, but that's not the way you wrote the sentence.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

thanks

 

Not accurate. you've taken these quotes out of context.

 

I don't know what's wrong with you... maybe you're giving up.

 

 

 

What possible context could I be missing?  You give a scum list, and then two hours later, organize your reads in groups that don't make any sense based on the list you just provided.  Reads evolve.  But they can't evolve out of NOTHING.  

 

Please, show me what made you suddenly change your mind.

 

choose someone else please. i dont want to deal with this.

 

besides, im not a good target. finger point better at somebody else.

 

No.  It's YOUR read list.  You can either explain how they're formed, or I can assume you're just making them up as you see fit.

 

leelou was on my yellow list for a long long time.

 

i explained why.

 

if you want, you could look for that why (it's only a couple pages ago), and i could respond to your criticisms then. but until you put actual effort into your fishing i don't want to put any into my defense.

 

 

Okay.  Let's look at this progression.

 

 

New Scum List

 

Clovdyx, Thane, Lelou, AJ

 

Yellows are Wombat and Halli

 

 

Okay.  Where did the Leelou scum read come from?

 

 

[v]Leelou[/v]

 

My gut tells me she's a wolf.

 

Lynch her tom, or I'll consider you a wolf too.

 

 

Gut.  Okay.

 

 

First. Give me a carrot.

1. Hally

2. AJ

3.SickPuppets

4.Thane

5. Pral

6. Clov

7. Leelou

8. Verbal

9. Des

10. Alanna

11. Yates

12. Csarmi

13. Womby

14. Sili

15. Tommy

16. Nyn

-your beloved pack-mule that carries games.

 

 

So why is she suddenly NOT a scum read?  You didn't address her.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Clov, read and respond to posts 2512-2514 plz.

 

I don't see how it doesn't answer your question.  "The last statement ISN'T about you being town.  It's about snarkiness. "

 

Think about this.

 

I associate Leelou being snarky with her scum game, since I saw a lot of it in ABBA.  I've seen a little bit of it here.Nyn told me she's that way regardless of alignment.  Probably true, but I have minimal experience with Town!Leelou.  

 

 

Yeah, but that's not the way you wrote the sentence.

 

 

I agree.