Gotham - Batman prequel show

[Red2111]

@ Leelou - i think its because how how they went from non suspect to "omg her son did it, best detective ever"

 

@ Reyler - if i hadn't read the "we be trolling" comment from teh director i'd probably be more willing to believe its the joker.   really though, given how non-chalant the show has been about most of the main characters and their introductions ...  i'd expect them to bread crumb and lead us to a big reveal with the Joker, not a wham bam and done sorta thing liek last night.

 

 

 

btw ...  has anyone been able to spot the riddler trophy Arkham City shout out in the promo screen  >:)   next time they show a preview for next weeks episode look in the red square.  

 

 

 

i spotted it last week.  now i can't not see it lmao   i keep trying to find the Joker balloons xD  i'm posative there has to be a cluster of the red and white balloons somewhere in there

[reyler]

It's less that Heller said they'd be trolling on the mater of the Joker than that they were going to throw people out into the water every now and again who could potentially be the Joker, but never give any confirmation. The fact that Jerome has gotten any real traction thus owes to two things: one, that they haven't actually followed through on that intention, and B, that whoever is in charge of the advertising got one look at this week's episode and promptly crapped their pants over a Joker sighting.

 

You know, what with everyone everywhere talking about whether the kid was channeling Jack or Heath in his performance, it occurred to me just why it didn't stick for me as well as it did for everyone else: it felt like replicating someone else's performance was exactly what he was trying to do. I mean yeah, he did well, but it just seemed to me like he wasn't playing his character as much as he was playing someone else playing his character.

 

The neon green question mark has been spotted before, yes. It could be a reference to Batman Forever instead, you know!

 

Over on the tor.com recap, the guy talked about how nobody on this show seems to know how to write women, because of how terrible Barbara has been, and how inconsistent writing is slowly overpowering Morena Baccarin's charisma, and that maybe they should find some women to run those characters past. Someone else pointed out that there are like four women on the writing team already. And then I thought about the fact that Peter Jackson wrote the scripts for LotR and The Hobbit with two women (one of whom is his wife), and recalled which among those three was responsible for writing Arwen and Tauriel's godawful plotlines (hint: it wasn't the hairy one). Basically, having women write for women can help, but not if the women you have suck at writing.

 

As good as Fish's scenes were this week, I did find myself wondering why the Dollmaker (spoilers but not really, they already announced him) would have his people round up anyone who could pose a physical threat, if organ donation is what he's after. Fish seemed to have quite a few big muscley types backing her play.

 

Also, it's nice to see that Bruce finally remembered all that stuff that happened in the beginning of the season before he got distracted by Selina and her possibly-false promises.

 

You know, after my last post, I actually spent a bit of time seeing if there was a decent age progression software online that I could use to satisfy my curiosity. There wasn't.

[Red2111]

well i re-started Arkham City    GotY edition of course

 

i can definitely see a resemblance facial feature wise to the catwoman  they have in that game

[reyler]

Jeffrey Combs 

 

Also, damn, Fish is hardcore. I definitely was not expecting that.

 

Show still has a problem trying to balance out five plotlines per episode. Pick two, maybe three, and focus on them. Barbara/Selina/Ivy is a good example; there's some actual meat there if they got the skin off, but they gave it like two minutes in the entire episode. You start to get an idea for Barbara's issues with (co)dependency, and Selina's massive trust issues, but they've got so many plates in the air that none of them get the attention they really need. While they're off checking in on every lingering subplot, they forget about the Red Hood plot that is supposed to be the episode's focus. Hell, I think Alfred and his nigh-indecipherable Scottish buddy got more airtime than the main story (which is sort of okay, because there was some damn fine work there, especially in the sparring sequence).

 

Basically, I think the best thing this show can do to improve is to stop having any pretense of this case-of-the-week police procedural stuff. Allow Gordon and Bullock to take a powder every once in a while, move in and out of focus while letting some of the other ongoing plotlines drive the main narrative of an episode for a while. 

[Basel Gill]

I like Fish as a character. I've my eye obn her.

[Red2111]

*nods*  solid episode.  its interesting how they introduced Anarchy in that fashion, there at the end.    i'm glad that they are still sticking to the more realistic gotham villains ^_^

 

i actually still disagree with you reyler.  i think the way their handling the plot split is good.  i think their at their absolute max for plot splits, but i think its manageable and their doing a decent job for what appears to be the ultimate goal  (introduce villains and have them grow together until the Age of Batman comes).

 

they can't really focus on the Selina / Ivy / Barbra plot for more than 5 minutes at a time imo, because Barbra ruins it with her less than flat acting and 2D character.  if she's to be a mentor to Ivy and Catwoman on using their bodies as an asset, she needs to get better acting skills.  at this point, i'd prefer Fish to teach those two girls how to properly be a woman in charge in a city ran by men  #MadMen  xD   Barbra just isnt believable for that.

 

i'd actually love for them to drop the Ivy/Selina/Barbra side story and pick back up with Scarecrow ...  or delve a bit more into anarchy, or the kid Bruce beat up (who goes onto become a minor villain).

 

i think one thing that the show is suffering with right now is feeling like they have to rush stuff to get to the Age of Batman.  the side plot with Bruce vs Wayne Enterprises ...  i feel this was done too early.  not having Bruce in a few episodes at a time is fine, we KNOW his backstory.  its been done adnaseum (though the teen years are generally glossed over, so its still nice to get an update on him and see his development every 3 or so episodes).  what we dont know is how the iconic villains got to where they were.  what we dont know and have never seen is the backstory of the city itself, and how it got to a place where it needed a vig like batman.  perhaps its just because i love villains, but this is the aspect that sets Gotham apart from shows like Smallville and makes it unique and among my fav shows of all time  (yes, right up there with Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and X Files).

 

 

at this point, i feel like their trying to get to a point where they can say "10 years later" in the Season 2 opening ...  and that, to me, is sad.

[reyler]

... That wasn't Anarky...

 

Also, I don't know about Erin Richards' acting, because quite honestly we haven't seen her giving any acting to do. You mention her 2D character being a reason they can't devote more than a couple of minutes to her, which is looking at the problem from the wrong direction; her character is two-dimensional precisely because they haven't bothered taking the time to flesh her out. Maybe they give her more to do and she still stinks it up, or maybe she doesn't, but right now the writing is where the character is falling down. Wesley Crusher was a terrible character right up until the point where someone wrote him as screwing up really badly (and then they ruined it by immediately going back to him wunderkinding his way through the week's problem, but that's irrelevant).

 

As far as Bruce goes, we don't know his backstory. Not anything in between "watches parents get killed" and "dresses in bat costume". There have been occasional attempts at showing his physical training, but even that comes later in his life. So it's nice to take a look at the kind of kid it takes to decide the best thing for him to do in response to the city that killed his parents is to become Ninja Cthulhu.

 

The kid Bruce beat up becomes Hush, who I hope never comes back because he's a garbage character.

 

I agree that they are in too much of a hurry, and that they might be looking to timeskip, and that would be an outright shame, because that means losing the child actors, who are honestly one of my favorite parts of the show.

[SinisterDeath]

*nods*  solid episode.  its interesting how they introduced Anarchy in that fashion, there at the end.    i'm glad that they are still sticking to the more realistic gotham villains ^_^

 

i actually still disagree with you reyler.  i think the way their handling the plot split is good.  i think their at their absolute max for plot splits, but i think its manageable and their doing a decent job for what appears to be the ultimate goal  (introduce villains and have them grow together until the Age of Batman comes).

 

they can't really focus on the Selina / Ivy / Barbra plot for more than 5 minutes at a time imo, because Barbra ruins it with her less than flat acting and 2D character.  if she's to be a mentor to Ivy and Catwoman on using their bodies as an asset, she needs to get better acting skills.  at this point, i'd prefer Fish to teach those two girls how to properly be a woman in charge in a city ran by men  #MadMen  xD   Barbra just isnt believable for that.

 

i'd actually love for them to drop the Ivy/Selina/Barbra side story and pick back up with Scarecrow ...  or delve a bit more into anarchy, or the kid Bruce beat up (who goes onto become a minor villain).

 

i think one thing that the show is suffering with right now is feeling like they have to rush stuff to get to the Age of Batman.  the side plot with Bruce vs Wayne Enterprises ...  i feel this was done too early.  not having Bruce in a few episodes at a time is fine, we KNOW his backstory.  its been done adnaseum (though the teen years are generally glossed over, so its still nice to get an update on him and see his development every 3 or so episodes).  what we dont know is how the iconic villains got to where they were.  what we dont know and have never seen is the backstory of the city itself, and how it got to a place where it needed a vig like batman.  perhaps its just because i love villains, but this is the aspect that sets Gotham apart from shows like Smallville and makes it unique and among my fav shows of all time  (yes, right up there with Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and X Files).

 

 

at this point, i feel like their trying to get to a point where they can say "10 years later" in the Season 2 opening ...  and that, to me, is sad.

Eh, I don't think they are going to rush straight to batman yet. (Maybe proto-batman but not batman)

And they do need to either spend less time on all the plot lines in a given episode, so as to give each plot line similar amount of screen time. (say, 5 plot lines, 10 minutes each) cause if you can't even devote 10 minutes to it, then it really doesn't need to be in that episode. It comes off as nothing more then cheap-distracting filler.

[SinisterDeath]

 

I agree that they are in too much of a hurry, and that they might be looking to timeskip, and that would be an outright shame, because that means losing the child actors, who are honestly one of my favorite parts of the show.

 

The girl who plays Selena, was briefly in the horror movie Girl House. 

She did a pretty good job, even though her character was only in it for about 5 minutes before she was killed off.

[reyler]

Cutting time from your A plot so that you have enough room for your D and E plots isn't going to help matters at all, especially not when they're keeping each episode its own more or less self-contained story. That's just going to make the whole thing even less satisfying. Save all the stuff you have for your D and E plots for one episode and make them the A and B plots. Penguin's scenes in the last two episodes showed me that he's actually kind of crap at running a club, and for all his scheming, doesn't know as much as he thinks he does about how to operate in the rules of organized crime. What they didn't do is make me give a crap. Leave Gordon alone for an episode and focus on Penguin's troubles, Zsasz bringing in Butch, whatever is going on in Butch's head thanks to Zsasz that has made him turn on Fish.

 

Basically, I prefer entrees, not sampler platters.

[Red2111]

... That wasn't Anarky...

 

Also, I don't know about Erin Richards' acting, because quite honestly we haven't seen her giving any acting to do. You mention her 2D character being a reason they can't devote more than a couple of minutes to her, which is looking at the problem from the wrong direction; her character is two-dimensional precisely because they haven't bothered taking the time to flesh her out. Maybe they give her more to do and she still stinks it up, or maybe she doesn't, but right now the writing is where the character is falling down. Wesley Crusher was a terrible character right up until the point where someone wrote him as screwing up really badly (and then they ruined it by immediately going back to him wunderkinding his way through the week's problem, but that's irrelevant).

 

As far as Bruce goes, we don't know his backstory. Not anything in between "watches parents get killed" and "dresses in bat costume". There have been occasional attempts at showing his physical training, but even that comes later in his life. So it's nice to take a look at the kind of kid it takes to decide the best thing for him to do in response to the city that killed his parents is to become Ninja Cthulhu.

 

The kid Bruce beat up becomes Hush, who I hope never comes back because he's a garbage character.

 

I agree that they are in too much of a hurry, and that they might be looking to timeskip, and that would be an outright shame, because that means losing the child actors, who are honestly one of my favorite parts of the show.

 

 

the kid at the end that put on the red hood, i think that was Anarky.   coupled with the line from Harvey "when people idolize the villains over the cops, i believe thats Anarky", then the symbolism of the hood, and the action of "pretend shooting the cops while wearing the hood".  it speaks to Anarky imo

 

so unless the show producers have come out and said who that character is, then i'm going on the assumption that it is Anarky.   if you disagree, thats your opinion; just like its your opinion that Hush can't be a good enough villain to focus on for this show.

 

 

and i disagree about Barbra.  i personally think her character now is a lost cause.  1st she has to grow as a character, become dependent and strong.  the way they've written her, and the way her actress has performed as her; making her into anything than a junkee rich kid is going to be tough.  and given how she's been potrayed (as an annoying throw away that keeps turning back up) its going to be hard to make her believable and likable.  they way they wrote her is one thing, but i also think the actress that plays her is falling flat (ie isn't a strong actress).  theres been plenty of "side characters" hat were badly written but stole the show because they had competent actors playing them.

[SinisterDeath]

Cutting time from your A plot so that you have enough room for your D and E plots isn't going to help matters at all, especially not when they're keeping each episode its own more or less self-contained story. That's just going to make the whole thing even less satisfying. Save all the stuff you have for your D and E plots for one episode and make them the A and B plots. Penguin's scenes in the last two episodes showed me that he's actually kind of crap at running a club, and for all his scheming, doesn't know as much as he thinks he does about how to operate in the rules of organized crime. What they didn't do is make me give a crap. Leave Gordon alone for an episode and focus on Penguin's troubles, Zsasz bringing in Butch, whatever is going on in Butch's head thanks to Zsasz that has made him turn on Fish.

 

Basically, I prefer entrees, not sampler platters.

I understand that, but I think that 10 minute thing holds.

If there story isn't at least 10 minutes, they shouldn't air it.

If they have a story/plot that is 40 minutes, and the episode is 46 minutes long, don't show us a 6 minute story that has nothing to do with the episode. Extend the main plot by 6 minutes with better writing/substance.

If you 'must' show us that 6 minute story, make it related to the story at hand.

 

If you have to show us 6 plot lines, and they all have to be varied lengths. Make the plot lines come together at the end of the episode. Make them all related somehow.

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

the kid at the end that put on the red hood, i think that was Anarky.   coupled with the line from Harvey "when people idolize the villains over the cops, i believe thats Anarky", then the symbolism of the hood, and the action of "pretend shooting the cops while wearing the hood".  it speaks to Anarky imo

Or he's proto-joker as joker was the redhood for a time...

[Red2111]

 

 

 

the kid at the end that put on the red hood, i think that was Anarky.   coupled with the line from Harvey "when people idolize the villains over the cops, i believe thats Anarky", then the symbolism of the hood, and the action of "pretend shooting the cops while wearing the hood".  it speaks to Anarky imo

Or he's proto-joker as joker was the redhood for a time...

 

 

i'm refusing to enterain any thoughts of the Joker right now <_<   last week ruined me on that

[reyler]

Honestly I'm not sure they had anything solid in mind for their Red Hood stuff, considering the Joker origin that involves it specifically points it that it gets worn by whoever is meant to be the fall guy for the gang, like putting officer's bars on a private so that everyone shoots him instead of the actual captain. Later Jason Todd (the second Robin) takes the identity for himself after he gets brought back from the dead, but that's after I stopped paying attention, so I don't know what they've been doing with him.

 

Anarky's schtick has never been about attacking the cops or Robin Hooding it up like the gang in this episode pretended to do; if the kid at the end was supposed to represent him (rather than just showing the continuation of the urban mystique of the Red Hood persona), then the writers of the show don't understand the character at all. Which, honestly, wouldn't be a surprise.

 

Also, Anarky wears red in every part of his costume except his mask, so there's that.

[Red2111]

a bit related to this topic.

 

 

the Blue Ajah is having our BluCon this week.  its everythign Geek Sheek and i'm running a discussion on Super Heros and Super Powers. 

 

people interested in Gotham might find the discussion there interesting ^_^

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92688-bluecon-super-hero-discussion/

[reyler]

Okay, now, see, when I was talking a week ago about focus? This, this right here is what I was talking about. This episode had a very prominent A plot in Gordon, with Fish and Bruce on B and C plots. What's more, there was an even more prominent theme this week about the bad things each character is willing to do. They focused on a couple of points and the episode was so much stronger for it.

 

There was a repost over on TheMarySue concerning unrealistically negative portrayals of mental illness in the media that was prompted by the Asylum episode; I can't imagine the writer being especially thrilled with Loeb's daughter, no matter how plausible she might be. At a certain point of sensitivity, though, you can no longer do the majority of Batman villains.

 

I can't help but smile any time Bruce and Selina are sharing a scene together. They are too precious. I was amused by Selina's (and Ivy's) lack of sympathy for the "sickies".

 

Fish's new David Bowie look is neat and all that but I'm pretty sure that, having just gouged out her eye the previous day and having it replaced overnight, there might be at least a bit more bruising? If not a complete lack of immediate function (though apparently Dollmaker medicine is advanced enough to just outright sew Jeffrey Comb's head onto a lady body in his spare time).

 

Actually, this is past Dollmaker medicine and straight into Zoidberg medicine.

 

Wait, we have to wait a whole month for the rest of the season?

[Leelou]

I hate these mid season breaks.

[SinisterDeath]

Haven't they had like.. 3 mid-season breaks already?

[Leelou]

Pretty much. Supernatural is doing the same thing. 

[Yates]

This show is a little slow. It's like... I watch it? But I don't know why.

[Red2111]

two good thing about so many breaks is that

 

- if the show continues to come back with strong numbers after so many breaks it shows Fox that people like the show and therefor it wont get cancelled *crosses fingers*

 

- makes the wait until season 2 feel shorter

[Red2111]

bump for the new episode.

 

 

sooooooo   when Pengiun made a move for that bar i thought it was to use as a cover to get alcohol seeing as Maronie has nixed any sales directly to him ...   but i forgot that Penguin has a set of watermelon's for balls.

 

 

bruce is developing nicely.  i like that it showed him wanting to push the dude over but having the restraint not to.  i love the Cat was there to do what needed to be done ^_^

 

 

<3 Gordon ...  and i was actually a bit sad when it turned out to be a set up, but he's like a dog with a bone     glad to see Peter from Heroes on there, he's a good fit for a serial killer *nods*  has a very big "American Psycho" feel to him xD.   his "come at me bro" stuff with the comissioner and the holding up the finger to cop was outstanding!!

 

(and apparently their going to get rid of Barbara!!!  YAY!!!! )

 

 

 

Fish ... i think she'll pull through ...  at least i hope she will.

[Zander?]

agree with your jim view spot on!!

 

and i think Peguin is played awesome by the actor,  can really see his progression

 

not a fan of Fish's story arc..no real good reason just not that into it.

[Basel Gill]

Yeah, I'm in agreement about Fish. Jada Pinkett Smith has done a great job with her and her scenes are enjoyable. But they haven't done enough IMO to connect what's going on with her to the overall story.

 

And I can't wait to see why Penguin has to kill Maroni in that specific bar.