Gotham - Batman prequel show

[Basel Gill]

Has anyone had a chance to watch this one? It's centered on a young James Gordon, and Bruce Wayne is just a kid. I'm seeing younger prequel versions of all assorted Batman villains, from Penguin to Riddler to Poison Ivy. Alfred Pennyworth is played by Sean Pertwee (the Third Doctor's son), who I know mainly as Lestrade in Elementary. His accent is all wrong. He sounds too Cockney and not upper crust English enough for Alfred. His acting is good here, but it doesn't hold a candle to the film versions played by Michael Gough or Michael Caine.

 

Ben McKenzie does a good job as an impassioned, principled Gordon here. He seems to take his cues from the Gary Oldman version on film by playing an honest cop in a department full of corruption, who sincerely believes in doing the right thing. It's interesting seeing a Batman series that isn't actually focused on Batman, and I hope this show makes it.

[reyler]

I'd say we haven't seen enough of Alfred to judge him versus his predecessors, but I understand they're looking to incorporate more of his military/intelligence background than past incarnations. And you can't ding Pertwee for not having an RP accent (not that I think it's a requirement) without throwing the same criticism at Michael Caine a thousand times over.

 

I actually thought McKenzie was rather bland as Gordon. It's not a good sign when your lead is the least interesting character on the show. Bullock, Mooney, Montoya, Falcone, Penguin, all of them were more interesting to watch than Gordon. Also, what world are we living in where the most interesting character on the show is the freaking Penguin?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

cat woman is adorable

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

but ya the cockney strikes the wrong chord every time I hear it.

[Rufae]

I thought it was a good start. I wonder how true to the Batman history is it going to be? 

[reyler]

Depends on which "history" you mean. In most versions of Batman continuity, there's very little concrete information between "sees his parents get killed" and "becomes Batman". As long as they don't pull a Smallville and bring in variants of every major villain (actively villainous, not pre-villain), plus form the Justice League, all before the central superhero ever puts on his costume, I'd say there isn't too much for them to screw up in terms of continuity. I've heard some complaints over the ages of Montoya and Allen (should be in the same range as Bruce himself rather than full adults at this point), but that's about it.

 

Looking forward to tonight where Selina gets to do more than just perch on top of buildings (no matter how good at it she is).

[reyler]

You know if they hadn't named the episode "Selina Kyle", I might not have been so disappointed about the percentage of it that featured her. It took like halfway through the episode before they got back to the plot that they started with. Maybe space out the Penguin stuff over another episode or two instead?

 

Also, I found out afterwards that the two kidnappers were named Doug and Patti. It makes me laugh thinking that twenty years ago those kidnappers looked like this

 

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I am heartily annoyed that this episode wasn't available on TWCs on demand last night. hopefully we'll be able to catch up tonight.

[reyler]

You could also use Hulu; they have it up the next day. Unless you are averse to tv-on-computer.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

thanks! not at all averse. I was gonna check Amazon prime tonite if cable failed but Basel

will be happy to know we can find it somewhere. pretty sure hulu is preloaded on the tv.

 

he's been avoiding the thread for spoilers so hell or high water we'll find the epi tonite.

[Basel Gill]

I liked the episode. The woman child snatcher was creepy! Not being a comic book reader, I'm not very familiar with some of the characters. Never even heard of several of the cops, although it's hard to not know Gordon.

[SinisterDeath]

I liked the episode. The woman child snatcher was creepy! Not being a comic book reader, I'm not very familiar with some of the characters. Never even heard of several of the cops, although it's hard to not know Gordon.

His partner was created for the show.. at least that's what the writers claim..

[reyler]

... Where did they say that? Maybe this interpretation was, but Harvey Bullock has been around since the mid-80's, and came to prominence on the Animated Series of the early 90's. That show, incidentally, is what Renee Montoya was created for (although because of differing production schedules, she showed up in the comics first).

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure that every named character on the squad in this show is someone from established canon. So far of the entire regular and recurring cast, I think Fish Mooney and Butch Gilzean are the only characters unique to this show. Makes me wonder if, provided the show (and the character) does well enough, Mooney will eventually find her way to the comics the way Montoya and Harley Quinn did.

[Basel Gill]

I'm liking Mooney as a character so far. It could happen.

[SinisterDeath]

... Where did they say that? Maybe this interpretation was, but Harvey Bullock has been around since the mid-80's, and came to prominence on the Animated Series of the early 90's. That show, incidentally, is what Renee Montoya was created for (although because of differing production schedules, she showed up in the comics first).

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure that every named character on the squad in this show is someone from established canon. So far of the entire regular and recurring cast, I think Fish Mooney and Butch Gilzean are the only characters unique to this show. Makes me wonder if, provided the show (and the character) does well enough, Mooney will eventually find her way to the comics the way Montoya and Harley Quinn did.

I heard mention of that on the show about gotham before it aired. (Made by the people who made gotham as well)

Well, just goes to show not to listen to the producers of the show, talking about the writers.

 

Doh, and I think i just realized.. It wasn't his partner.. It was the 'villian' lady that Penguin wants revenge on.. That's moony and unique to the show, correct?

[reyler]

Yeah, Fish Mooney is an original creation. Not least because in terms of female Batman villains, you've got Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, and Talia al Ghul (who there would be no conceivable justification for having on this show), and that's pretty much it.

 

You know, while people are complaining about how established (and older) most of Batman's heavyweight villains will be in this chronology by the time Bruce Wayne is ready to fight them, one character that I think could fit very well on this show (once it has it's feet under it) is the Ventriloquist. He's weird and gimmicky, which this show has room for at the moment, but has no powers or costume, just a puppet with a gun.

[SinisterDeath]

Yeah, Fish Mooney is an original creation. Not least because in terms of female Batman villains, you've got Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, and Talia al Ghul (who there would be no conceivable justification for having on this show), and that's pretty much it.

 

You know, while people are complaining about how established (and older) most of Batman's heavyweight villains will be in this chronology by the time Bruce Wayne is ready to fight them, one character that I think could fit very well on this show (once it has it's feet under it) is the Ventriloquist. He's weird and gimmicky, which this show has room for at the moment, but has no powers or costume, just a puppet with a gun.

Well most of these people are what.. 10 years older then bruce? Penguin is between 20 and 30? Meaning when bruce is 25, Penguin is somewhere between 35 and 45? That seems about right to me.. not sure about some of the other characters..

(Gordon looks to be in his mid 30s, which would put him in his mid-40s/early 50s when batman comes out of the cave.)

[reyler]

That's how I look at it. I'd expect Riddler to be closer in age, but since this Bruce is 12 and we don't have a firm grasp on how old Edward is meant to be (although his actor is annoyingly a year younger than me - reyler is getting the olds), it's not too bad. Harvey Dent is apparently already an ADA judging by the press release on his casting, and is being played by a guy in his 30s. I'm trying to think if he and Bruce were canonically friends since their mutual youth, or if that's just something that B:TAS did that stuck with people.

[SinisterDeath]

That's how I look at it. I'd expect Riddler to be closer in age, but since this Bruce is 12 and we don't have a firm grasp on how old Edward is meant to be (although his actor is annoyingly a year younger than me - reyler is getting the olds), it's not too bad. Harvey Dent is apparently already an ADA judging by the press release on his casting, and is being played by a guy in his 30s. I'm trying to think if he and Bruce were canonically friends since their mutual youth, or if that's just something that B:TAS did that stuck with people.

Could be. But the early seasons of the animate series also looked like it still took place in the 50s or something. :P (or at least, one of the animated series did!)

[reyler]

The closest that show ever came to giving a date when it happened was showing the yearbook of a character who'd graduated in 1908 (I think), stated to be some 40-odd years prior. They were emulating the old Fleischer Superman cartoons in more ways than one.

[Leelou]

I'm liking the show so far. I'll post more after tonight's episode, but I'm not finding the age differences that bad.

[Lilbaz]

Last nights was the best so far. Enjoyed it and a few laughs chucked in.

[reyler]

You know, given the way the episodes are being structured, it almost makes me feel like the pacing of the show would improve dramatically when watched in sequence, rather than one a week. While Selina's five minutes or so at the start of the episode turned around to provide the clue to the ending, they also felt more connected to the previous episode than they did to this one.

 

It's still interesting watching Penguin's ambition progress through varying stages of humility and ruthlessness, and I got a legit surprise at the end when, just like in the first episode, he jumps the gun and makes a move that could seriously bite him in the ass. Although, potential Gordon/Penguin alliance? Color me intrigued.

[SinisterDeath]

You know, given the way the episodes are being structured, it almost makes me feel like the pacing of the show would improve dramatically when watched in sequence, rather than one a week. While Selina's five minutes or so at the start of the episode turned around to provide the clue to the ending, they also felt more connected to the previous episode than they did to this one.

 

It's still interesting watching Penguin's ambition progress through varying stages of humility and ruthlessness, and I got a legit surprise at the end when, just like in the first episode, he jumps the gun and makes a move that could seriously bite him in the ass. Although, potential Gordon/Penguin alliance? Color me intrigued.

Well.. this is a Gotham under Falcone... And in DC comics, Penguin & Dent team up to take down Falcone... right?

[Yates]

I want to like this series.  I'm not feeling engaged enough yet.  I wanted to like Sleepy Hollow back when that first came out, too.  Couldn't make it through the first season.