Freemasons vs. Illuminati - Day One

[hazelkrs1]

 

I wouldn't necessarily mind having two wagons that are tied and force a rand between them just to see what happens.

Hally vs Lenlo, imo.

 

 

I'm on board with this

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

 

 

vote addict.

 

pure gut. for some reason right from the get go i have wanted to do what Clov beat me to. She(?) never answered me when i asked her if she was scum either

Where are you going with bolded? It's an open setup AND she's (supposedly) a newer player, so it's obvious she's not worried about a LD

 

So what scum motivation would she have for not answering that?

 

Looks like fake scumhunting to me

 

[v]Dice[/v] Cause yolo I got short attention span

 

This is a weird line of questioning, imo. I get a joke from the bolded - which would be twice as weird because you were complaining about your humor not getting across earlier. Bringing up LD? As you mention in this post, it is open setup so dice would KNOW there is no LD.

 

That's the point tho- I think Dice was fake scumhunting. I don't think he had the setup in mind and was looking at things with a #solve mindset, I think he just threw that out there cause he thought it would make him look like he was doing stuff.

 

Your defense of Dice is noted tho

[keyholder21]

This is what I've been waiting for. When I was scum in Tron Mafia, I was trying to push a lynch on Drunk Tank, who was playing his first game here (and not exactly what I'd call a pro-town game). TG wasn't having any part of what a few of us were selling on DT, citing that doesn't believe in lynching a new player on D1. When I saw that the replacement player here was someone new to the site, I figured I'd see if TG would be willing to roll on her if she got some pressure. I'm not going to say he's lock!town because of it, but it helps his chances and I'd certainly be pushing him as scum had he hopped on the wagon.

 

As for Addi, I actually like her to be town here quite a bit. She certainly wouldn't be the first person to play up the "confused noob" role, but she has two plausible excuses this game for being more "aware" than your typical noob (two confirmed town mason groups, AND she knows Darthe). I also like her vote on me. The reasoning was really bad, but it's her first game...whatcha gonna do? The reason I like it is that I figure it's pretty unlikely that her teammates would be encouraging her to start a fight with one of the more vocal players in the game using something that could easily be spun as an OMGUS retaliation vote. Darthe may have townspewed her, too.

RE: TG. I don’t think you should use the Tron game to clear him. Giving new players the benefit of the doubt is LONG STANDING at DM. Just about anyone that is a normal player around here would say that. It is a null tell at best.

 

I think your points about Addi are spot on, though.

 

BTW, welcome Addi! Sorry I didn’t say hi before .

 

 

Wowzors. Unbelievably scummy looking post for such a new player.

 

Way too sure of other's orientation, particularly yours? So you're saying he's right about you?

THIS looks opportunistic to me. Like you said, she's a new player - I don't know what kind of reasoning you expect her to display, and I think most people would agree that what she said doesn't really suggest her alignment one way or another. Others can chime in if I'm wrong here, but I don't see it.

 

Agreed. IDK what des is smoking.

 

To sort of piggyback off what AJ said, I think you're reaching here man. I didn't get the impression that AJ is trying to push her from this, or somehow discredit or, or make her reads somehow less substantiated. I don't think there was a NEED for this post because I find last game mostly irrelevant at this point, but what he said isn't wrong in any way.

Bold – You’re using last game to lean scum on me this game. Please explain why it is okay in that instance, but not in this one.

 

I know it had just started, but you still hadn't said much of anything to that point. Was there a whole lot to address by that point? Nope. But yet you still managed to make two walls without too much going on between my comment and your posts. And it's not like you have ever needed an invitation to the thread.

Bold – This statement irks me because of the comment you made earlier about my catchup posts. Nothing on your alignment. Just is irritating.

 

 

@AJ - Any thoughts on the rest of Key's posts? They looked like a legit catch-up to me. I see your point on the Len comment and I didn't like the Des vote as a joke after what appeared to be a legit catchup. Other than that nothing pinged.

What about it looked legit?

 

I didn't see much of note beyond what I already pointed out.

 

You have her OP which basically excuses her for being absent.

 

Her +1 the QT thing that apparently Despot was joking about

 

Saying she doesn't sense Len as scum 'this time' (lol)

 

Saying Clov needs to explain more before we roll onto Addi

 

Then lastly her Despot vote

 

~5 posts.

 

To throw one of your own questions back at you, where is the scum motivation for catching up how I did?

 

Regarding my number of posts, that’s what I made my “excuse” OP. I knew I was going to have another ridiculously busy day today and wouldn’t have time to post until after the baby went to bed.

 

Just thinking about Despo.

Ok. Thinking what?

 

Hallia and GF both look kinda good already, which is awesome

What about them looks good?

 

Seemed kinda on point to me and you think as scum she'd go @ town!you and TG D1 like that?

Bold – strikes me a bit odd, especially considering the buddying comment earlier. Also, how do you know they are town?

[hazelkrs1]

Key I'm not scum btw

 

Feel free to engage me, instead of wolfily trying to +1 things other people say about me to try and make me look bad

[Darthe]

ANNOUNCEMENT:

I did something kind of dumb and want to stop it before it gets exploited.  Apologies about this but I numbered the masonic teams in my setup to distinguish them and forgot to remove that before assigning them to the players.  This both severely limits the mafia and helps the masons confirm themselves to one another.  

 

Thus, for the sake of the game, I am requesting that if you choose to reveal your role (once role revealing is allowed) please do not claim with a number.  It would be game breaking and I would have to modkill you, reroll the game or end it.  

 

Again, apologies about this oversight on my apart but I must stress, do not claim a number if you choose to claim mason!  

 

I'll also be posting this on the mafia QT and both mason QT's.  

[keyholder21]

Key I'm not scum btw

 

Feel free to engage me, instead of wolfily trying to +1 things other people say about me to try and make me look bad

Hey des, neither am I, btw so feel free to not try and make me look bad by attaching "wolfily" when you are talking to me. Engaging you is precisely what I did regarding dice and I'm +1ing what I think are good points. I'm not going to try and take credit for someone else's good point by restating it with different words.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Key I'm not scum btw

 

Feel free to engage me, instead of wolfily trying to +1 things other people say about me to try and make me look bad

Hey des, neither am I, btw so feel free to not try and make me look bad by attaching "wolfily" when you are talking to me. Engaging you is precisely what I did regarding dice and I'm +1ing what I think are good points. I'm not going to try and take credit for someone else's good point by restating it with different words.

 

 

What you did WAS wolfy tho. And I didn't ever call you scum btw. Townies can do wolfy things.

 

But your response here tells me this isn't the case, is it?

 

And you going "I KNOW, RITE???" when someone else says something about me IS legit wolfy. You're just trying to cheerlead a lynch on, not trying to discern the alignments of the people you're +1'ing

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Key[/v]

[keyholder21]

Re: Hallia, I feel the same way that Yates felt about Len last game. I think she is an easy target when she is town because she tends to be absent more often and make these snipe looking posts. She feels town to me because the only game I remember playing with her where she was scum (Harry Potter in the WT), she went out of her way to make longer catchup posts and show she was following along with the game. I feel like her post here was less self-conscious so right now, I have her as slight town. Definitely need more posts though.

[keyholder21]

 

 

Key I'm not scum btw

 

Feel free to engage me, instead of wolfily trying to +1 things other people say about me to try and make me look bad

Hey des, neither am I, btw so feel free to not try and make me look bad by attaching "wolfily" when you are talking to me. Engaging you is precisely what I did regarding dice and I'm +1ing what I think are good points. I'm not going to try and take credit for someone else's good point by restating it with different words.

 

 

What you did WAS wolfy tho. And I didn't ever call you scum btw. Townies can do wolfy things.

 

But your response here tells me this isn't the case, is it?

 

And you going "I KNOW, RITE???" when someone else says something about me IS legit wolfy. You're just trying to cheerlead a lynch on, not trying to discern the alignments of the people you're +1'ing

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Key[/v]

 

What? I didn't say that you said I was scum. I was using the same tone that I got from your post. I figured that was clear from me using the same abbrievations and verbage that you did.

 

The +1ing part is pure BS. If you feel the same way as someone you are not "cheerleading" a lynch on. That is a legit scummy way to say that.

 

Also, just because I agree with what someone says about you, does not mean that I am not trying to discern their alignments.

[keyholder21]

Happy where my vote is.

[Hallia]

I'm here and I can post more.

 

@Yates - it's the style of his posting.  Last game he was making these long winded coherent posts.  He's back to short and different.  It feels different to me.

[hazelkrs1]

 

This is what I've been waiting for. When I was scum in Tron Mafia, I was trying to push a lynch on Drunk Tank, who was playing his first game here (and not exactly what I'd call a pro-town game). TG wasn't having any part of what a few of us were selling on DT, citing that doesn't believe in lynching a new player on D1. When I saw that the replacement player here was someone new to the site, I figured I'd see if TG would be willing to roll on her if she got some pressure. I'm not going to say he's lock!town because of it, but it helps his chances and I'd certainly be pushing him as scum had he hopped on the wagon.

 

As for Addi, I actually like her to be town here quite a bit. She certainly wouldn't be the first person to play up the "confused noob" role, but she has two plausible excuses this game for being more "aware" than your typical noob (two confirmed town mason groups, AND she knows Darthe). I also like her vote on me. The reasoning was really bad, but it's her first game...whatcha gonna do? The reason I like it is that I figure it's pretty unlikely that her teammates would be encouraging her to start a fight with one of the more vocal players in the game using something that could easily be spun as an OMGUS retaliation vote. Darthe may have townspewed her, too.

RE: TG. I don’t think you should use the Tron game to clear him. Giving new players the benefit of the doubt is LONG STANDING at DM. Just about anyone that is a normal player around here would say that. It is a null tell at best.

 

I think your points about Addi are spot on, though.

 

BTW, welcome Addi! Sorry I didn’t say hi before .

 

 

Wowzors. Unbelievably scummy looking post for such a new player.

 

Way too sure of other's orientation, particularly yours? So you're saying he's right about you?

THIS looks opportunistic to me. Like you said, she's a new player - I don't know what kind of reasoning you expect her to display, and I think most people would agree that what she said doesn't really suggest her alignment one way or another. Others can chime in if I'm wrong here, but I don't see it.

 

Agreed. IDK what des is smoking.

 

To sort of piggyback off what AJ said, I think you're reaching here man. I didn't get the impression that AJ is trying to push her from this, or somehow discredit or, or make her reads somehow less substantiated. I don't think there was a NEED for this post because I find last game mostly irrelevant at this point, but what he said isn't wrong in any way.

Bold – You’re using last game to lean scum on me this game. Please explain why it is okay in that instance, but not in this one.

 

I know it had just started, but you still hadn't said much of anything to that point. Was there a whole lot to address by that point? Nope. But yet you still managed to make two walls without too much going on between my comment and your posts. And it's not like you have ever needed an invitation to the thread.

Bold – This statement irks me because of the comment you made earlier about my catchup posts. Nothing on your alignment. Just is irritating.

 

 

You agree with a bunch of stuff in Clov's post, but take exception to him scumreading you but in a polite way and SPECIFICALLY STATING that you weren't reading into his alignment

 

Basically you wanna buddy him by +1'ing his comments to me, but then want to deflect his comments against you.

 

Please Key, tell me how you are trying to discern Clov's alignment here. Cause I don't see it, not one bit.

 

 

Hallia and GF both look kinda good already, which is awesome

What about them looks good?

 

Seemed kinda on point to me and you think as scum she'd go @ town!you and TG D1 like that?

Bold – strikes me a bit odd, especially considering the buddying comment earlier. Also, how do you know they are town?

 

And both of these were dumb btw. If you were paying attention to threadflow you'd be able to see the reasoning for the early town leans, and holy misrep batman I was NOT saying I knew them to be town- I was talking to AJ in the hypothetical scenario that he and TG were town and Hallia was scum. That's at least twice now you've tried making me look bad for something that was just completely ludicrous.

 

You're scum Key.

 

[hazelkrs1]

GET OWNED KEYSCUMSTER21

[keyholder21]

Des, I question Clov in an earlier post, so I don't get where you are saying I'm not trying to read into him. The "nothing on your alignment" statement is obviously (I thought) referring to the statement irking me having nothing to do with his alignment.

 

It is a legit question asking you why you think they look good. Perhaps I missed it when I was reading, but even if that IS the case, how is that question at all a problem for you? You should be able to quote your post then, or answer me with a repeat of what you said.

 

As for the question re: AJ and TG as town, I think that is also valid. Perhaps you are using a hypothetical, but how does supposing Hallia is scum mean automean AJ and TG are both town? We all know that people can bus teammate/s in this game.

[keyholder21]

GET OWNED KEYSCUMSTER21

Lol. Seriously, you are barking up the wrong tree.

[Hallia]

*nodnod*

 

I'm liking the Key this game.

[Lenlo]

Alright so I had this nice long post worked out, where I reread the game and tried to step up but then DM ate it and now im just... im just tired. So id rather just answer whatever questions or comments people have than do this crap again this late at night.

[Andrej]

 

I'd like him to explain more but aggressiveness doesn't really indicate anything for the most part. I suppose it varies from player to player but I don't associate aggression with scumminess in a general sense.

 

What do you think his motive is? Try to consider his posts in this matter.

 

This post reads like you know Clov is town.

 

 

Okay. How?

 

This was me speaking to Addi in a general sense of how she should try to evaluate why people are pushing here after she voted Clov.

 

 

I'll wait then.

 

After clearing you appropriately last game I think I can do this game as well, but I understand the need for time. I look forward to your progression.

 

My idea hinges around some of the questions she's posed, although I didn't particularly give them the stink eye but I can see why you would.

As does this post. It strikes me as odd, you willing to give the benefit of the doubt here and “can see why you would” when you jump so easily onto something small that someone else said. Such as TG and the “justification” of Len’s vote last time. Not to mention the “need for time”. Since when do you back off people and let them have time to “prove” themselves?

 

I said that I would wait because Clov said he'd explain later. This is me developing my read on him. If he's town, he could be trying to gambit/test someone and by me pressing him for an answer I could interfere.

 

At the time I wasn't sure what he was doing so I went the simple route and considered his vote being legit as a scum read on Addi. Which is why I said that I could see why he was voting there, which I also explained later at how I could see him finding some of her posts scummy - if that's what he was going for. This is me analyzing, or attempting, his thought process.

 

"Need for time" is me saying that I need to see more from him before I feel comfortable putting him one way or the others.

 

Any other questions? I've also made more commentary on Addi recently when others have called her post scummy and how I view them - so I'm really not sure what angle you're trying to work here. I think I handled Clov exactly how I should.

[Andrej]

Len if you've read up then just give us a summary of your reads.

 

Town, if any.

 

Scum, if any.

 

And then vote. A list of your WTL would be cool too.

[hazelkrs1]

Des, I question Clov in an earlier post, so I don't get where you are saying I'm not trying to read into him. The "nothing on your alignment" statement is obviously (I thought) referring to the statement irking me having nothing to do with his alignment.

All the comments to that Clov post from that post I quoted- you legit don't look like you're concerned with finding out his alignment there. Either +1'ing his comments on me, or deflecting, but not directly engaging in a manner that looks like you're trying to read him

 

It is a legit question asking you why you think they look good. Perhaps I missed it when I was reading, but even if that IS the case, how is that question at all a problem for you? You should be able to quote your post then, or answer me with a repeat of what you said.

I never said it was a problem for me, I just think it illustrates you're trying to write a narrative to support your case, instead of actually looking at things with a #solve mindset.

 

GF KNOWS he can slank off and likely get away with it, yet offered a townread on Yates very quickly after being asked and didn't look uncomfortable with the way he wrote it, but also pointed out how it was premature since D1 (which is true). Tone looked good too.

 

Hallia seemed to mindmeld with me about TG and AJ, and also seemed to be participating more than she really had to

 

As for the question re: AJ and TG as town, I think that is also valid. Perhaps you are using a hypothetical, but how does supposing Hallia is scum mean automean AJ and TG are both town? We all know that people can bus teammate/s in this game.

You're still making NO sense in this matter Key

 

The hypothetical I was laying out for AJ was ASSUMING they were both town, to ask him if he thought Hallia would go at him and TG like that if she were scum and they were town

 

I wasn't supposing Hallia was scum there, quite the opposite in fact, I was illustrating how from his perspective (since he is townreading TG and was operating under the guise of being town himself) it actually might NOT be likely that Hallia was scum there

 

AJ instantly understood what I was saying, yet you are trying to twist it as saying something it's not, and now setting up strawman arguments to make it look like you're being legit in this push when you're not

 

OBVIOUSLY I know scum may bus. You and I were JUST bussing Lenlo in the first iteration of this game. I wasn't saying Hallia was bussing at all, or trying to inference AJ or TG's alignment from a supposed scum read on Hallia. ALL I WAS DOING was interacting with AJ and both introducing the possibility of Hallia being town (at the time he was scumreading her, I was townreading her) and also trying to judge AJ's reaction

 

THERE WAS NOTHING QUESTIONABLE ABOUT THAT YET YOU KEEP GOING ON ABOUT IT LIKE THERE WAS

[hazelkrs1]

I don't think Key is missing this kind of stuff on accident here, I think she is scum opportunistically pushing a mislynch

[hazelkrs1]

AJ please help me here. I'm already getting frustrated with this game

[Hallia]

Don't get frustrated.  Take a breath.  I can actually see where both you AND Key are coming from.  

[Andrej]

 

Still WTL Len tho

 

Still only responding about himself

WTL Len/Key atm

AJ, what changed between these two statements to make you add me? Specifically, no one talked anything about me.

Nothing between ~those posts. I was just kind of musing at the time because I wanted to get my opinions in the open.

 

Did you miss the previous commentary I made on you irt your stance on Len and how you don't get the sense he's scum 'this game'?

 

Like I said previously, I found the addition of 'this time' to be weird because you were voting him all of D1 last round as his scum buddy, so obviously you knew your opinion then wasn't genuine.

[hazelkrs1]

Don't get frustrated.  Take a breath.  I can actually see where both you AND Key are coming from.  

 

You really kind of shouldn't be able to.

 

If you see where I'm coming from then you should be able to see my point that she is misrepping me and trying to +1 others to help get me lynched

 

That's not townie behavior

[hazelkrs1]

I just think you always want to read spats between people as town on town Hallia. The peace love and happiness comes out and makes you wanna have everyone sing kumbayah