[Standard] Cory vs. Bad Dietary Habits & Laziness Mafia, Mafia Sweep

[dicetosser1]

darthe im with you on the losing weight thing except i cant get motivated enuff to go to the gym. mostly cause i have no one to go with i think. im like 107 kgs and should be like 80??  i also need to get in shape for that 90 km bike ride in nov.  

 

 

so far not doing well  

[Tommyrod]

Dice whatcha thinking

[dicetosser1]

im thinking that yates is making good points. i read his stuff and can see where he is coming from cause im kinda there too or agree with it.

 

i still think Krak is mafia but right now my vote is liable to be on manbat. he popped in again, said nothing of consequence again and popped out.

[Tommyrod]

im thinking that yates is making good points. i read his stuff and can see where he is coming from cause im kinda there too or agree with it.

 

i still think Krak is mafia but right now my vote is liable to be on manbat. he popped in again, said nothing of consequence again and popped out.

Which points of Yates did you like?

[dicetosser1]

 

Obv might be stuck in a tunnel but this post looked like posturing to me- like Yates trying to give himself an out for his soft pushing against Tommy (which is reminiscent of Yates' early game and his weak "traps")

Take it at face value. I can't find it but I think it was also you who said you would have expected to see me push harder on Tommy if I was convinced he was scum citing my vote on Tommy as evidence that I think he's scum?

 

The thing is, I'm not convinced Tommy is scum. I'm just not convinced Tommy is Town no matter how many times he says I'm dumb for not seeing his purported obv Towniness and throwing tantrums any time even a spec of suspicion is shined his way. THAT does not feel like a Tommy!Town reaction to me, fwiw.

 

So again I find myself wondering about this handful of people hard clearing Tommy for no reason. This is like my 100th post on the subject [warning: may be an exaggeration] but not one person is explaining themselves.

 

I would also like to point out that the overall lack of conviction Tommy has been displaying also reads as off to me. For example, I think if anyone else posted this post lynch but pre flip you would jump down their throats for "hedging," Des:

I'm just more confused than anything if TurIthi is town.

I also feel, Des, like if anyone else was trying to point out how obviously Town they were and how frustrated they were that everyone else in the world wasn't reading them as obvious Town without actually catching scum [eg. the way you treat Csarmi in every game] you would be on them like white on rice. The way you are treating Tommy right now illustrates to me that you aren't overly concerned with actually reading his slot and are just assuming things that are going to make us lose the game. What has he done in this game that you feel like he wouldn't/couldn't do as 3rd party for example? The way he tried removing 3rd party poisoner as even an OPTION is what got me started down this potential train of thought.

 

 

As an aside I really like Darthe's new avatar. Totes adorbs

Yates original designs [by which I mean I stole an image off deviantart and added the #fulldarthe text]. Glad you are enjoying it. I thought it was pretty Darthe.

 

 

 

 

You literally just said poisoner was likely scum based off the mechanic of EOD v. EON.  Now you're saying poisoner is likely Town?  Which is it, or are you just making up whatever you want to fit narrative?

A little from column A and a little from column B?

 

I still think poisoner is 3rd party. However, I acknowledge that if there is no Town ability to heal it is MORE likely that poison is scum kill flavor than I had previously been considering.

 

I'm definitely creating a narrative on Tommy. There's no doubt about that. Regardless of my reasons, it's my intention to illustrate that Tommy is not lock Town and that I am suspicious of anyone that claims otherwise. I am demonstrating examples of how Tommy's actions could absolutely be coming from a scum or 3rd party mindset and I'm waiting for anyone - other than Tommy - to dispute this.

 

 

 

ok so i agree with the Blues. Im not seeing you as either obv town or obv scum and i like to flatter myself that i can spot you when you are scum. this makes me LEAN town on you but im not totally sold. the hard clearing bit i already bought up with hally and its her i think of in regards to this.

 

the red    during the end of the last day i started to get this feeling that des is trying to play all sides. now the fact he got into it with turin causes me some problems. whenever they do this   and they do it all the time, i usually end up distrusting des    even if i was leaning town on him to start with. so that hasnjt helped  but id love  someone better then me to look at des and see if they see what i think im seeing.

[dicetosser1]

there have been various other things yates has said thru the game that have me nodding as well and no im not going hunting for them,

[Tommyrod]

Who are your top 3 scum picks

[dicetosser1]

i still dont like krak. im not liking manbats pop ins but am not sure that constitutes scum tells. and des has me tinfoiling. theyd be my three with maybe swapping arsis for des.  des im not at all sure on and think i maybe reading too much into. Arsis i found scummy early but honestly need to relook at.

 

as you can tell my reads are a bit blah atm but thats cause things are kinda goin round and round in my head.

[Pralaya]

Yates case:

 

 

 

 

Yates, at the start of the game, looked to be playing both sides without taking a stance. At some points, he was putting forth some points against Turin regarding his going after TG and other times directing Des while he was arguing with Turin. The tone he was using was overly careful not to antagonize and being an eagerly,  helpful townie. 
 

 

I don't know how a Town Miller would behave.

Not to be overly nitpicky here but I'm going to be overly nitpicky. What did you mean by Town Miller? Why add the Town part? Have you been in games with a Scum Miller? I think they are just called Godfathers. *shrug*

 

 
 

 

I have never once said you said the cop should view TG. SHOW ME where I said that Ithi, cause you and Turin are starting to misrep hardcore.

I think they are talking about this:

 

Everyone walks away. Cop doesn't view. It's just perfect.
 
I may just be contrary - but if no Mafia has ever done this, why the hell not?

Underlined: You seriously trying to say the Cop should view TG after he claimed Miller? Are you seriously saying that?]/b] Regardless of whether TG is faking Miller or not, Cop viewing him would be an absolutely terrible idea

 

 

 
Along with occasional nudging
 

 

Turin was NOT interested in pressuring TG for his claim, yet he is trying to act like he was. Ithi DID come in instantly with the vote, but Turin is now trying to take credit for skepticism of the claim that he did not truly express.

This is the problem with hydras. You raise an excellent point, overall. HOWEVER, I was just put in a position where I had to back up the other head of my hydra on a couple of things we maybe weren't 100% in agreement on. And it looked a lot like this.
 
Maybe +0.5 scum points? Slightly more scum than null? With the TOWN Miller thing being another +0.5 I guess they can have 1 scum point.

 

 
After that, he suddenly started going against Krak, maybe for being inactive. But, tries to spin it as "something being wrong"
 

[unvote]
[v]Krak[/v]
 
Something is not right.

 

The sum total of Krak's contribution to this game so far:

 

 

Best protein bar ever made. Amazing flavor, best macros and doesn't kill your stomach like other cheaper bars do.

 
Quest bar is tasty, agreed.  I'm a big fan of the chocolate mint cliff protein bar.

 

 
White chocolate macadamia myself.  The coconut chocolate ain't bad neither.

 

 

 
I felt this would have been fine if he was just saying that he is being inactive, like others said. But, the tone here looked opportunistic. And, he completely drops this after some time. 
 
Then, this is where he starts his nudging of Tom. Again with the "something off" argument, this time for a different reason
 

SOMETHING is off about Tommy this game. That's for sure. I just can't tell if it's because Tommy!scum or new players being involved that have other meta info on him.

 

That's not a great response by Tommy. Feeling a stronger lean towards Tommy!scum.

 
 
Then, this point caught me as I reading through the second time.Yates randomly mentions that Dice has changed his "town play". The interesting thing here is that Dice starts using that excuse later in the game on why he is playing different. This could be co-incidence or even Dice realizing that he can use this to defend himself, but it was really odd, especially as Dice gameplay till this point was just an off-topic conversation with Yates ! 
 

 

Generally if someone's playstyle is different from what you usually see, they're > rand scum.

Or they are trying something new. Dice totally changed his Town play 3[?] games ago. I was only able to recognize it the second time because we had a conversation about it post game and I held him to it on the second.
 
Later, this post was interesting where he was saying that he is somewhat interested in lynching me. Also, he brings up Krak agter a long time and it is sort of conflicting. But, what makes it interesting is his 360 degree turn when Tommy suggests a CFD on me later during the day. Don't think I had a lot of posts in between to change his mind suddenly. 
 

I would be down for a Pral lynch if it hadn't ended badly last time I was convinced he was scum lurking.
 
As I probably alluded to when I said I wasn't down with a D1 Tommy lynch before, I think I'd be okay with lynching a non-contributor even if only to change the lurker meta on this site.
 
I'm stiull happy with my Krak vote. Krack is whack.

 
 
 
That is, however, rare. So I agree that it is more likely to come from scum than Town. I'm just trying to illustrate a contrarian pov b/c that "tell" isn't as strong as we sometimes think it is.

 

 
 
Surprised here that he claims he wouldn't lynch Tommy. Especially when he was nudging TOmmy before this period and after this period.
 

I think my list of people I won't lynch today is probably shorter than the other.
 
AJ, Des, Slendy, TG, Tommy
 
Yup. That's it.

 
THAT nudge again 
 

 

His play so far makes me think he's town but Tom's a good player so I don't want to clear him.

SO. MUCH. THIS.
 
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
 
Glad I unvoted you.

 

 
Wasn't he down for a Pral lynch sometime back? Hmmm
 

I feel like Pral is easy lynch bait. Not going there today.

 

 

What is concerning??

When did you come up with this Pral tell? That looks like a lot of work.

 

 
As i had mentioned earlier, this looks like Yates trying to get some town cred if in case I get lynched and flip town. Especially if he gets to trap Tommy in the process. He mentioned and talked a lot earlier about how he found the lurkers scummy and suddenly shifting the stance to defending me rang quite some bells. 
 
Same thing he does with Dice. He goes from defending dice to suspectin him to defending him to suspecting him. Unnecessary connections which is what makes me feel they are teammates
 

I'm still on SP. I'm not convinced that Vos is scum but I've liked Slendy's thread presence so I could sheep. Even if only to prevent Arsis from being lynched because I'm much more convinced that Arsis is Town than Vos.
 
I would still rather lynch Hally or SP, though. If I have time I'll try to build a Hally case but look at Dice's last post for some pretty solid posting.
 
I need to go put beer in a barrel so I'm out. Try to be back before deadline.
 
Meh.
 
[unvote]
 
[v]Hally[/v]
 
Next time answer some questions when they are directed at you.

 

 

honest question. Can hydras be of both alignments?  ie 1 town 1 mafia?

Do you know what a hydra is? It's two people that got the same role PM from the mod playing in the same slot.
 

Debbie Gibson?? ELECTRIC YOUTH!!   fistbumps the brother from the other side of the world   or would if he didnt have abba in that list.  Im disappointed yates. Disappointed.

In my defense that was a list of Christian Rock Bands - and Debbie Gibson - and Abba [for Darthe].
 
Plus, you know I was always partial to Kylie.
 
Are you Town this game, Dice? I want you to be Town but I don't see you Town telling. And that makes me sad.

 

 
Then on D2, he starts the setup talk which distracted the scum hinting quite a bit
 

Town poisoner?
 
No. That smells like 3rd party killer trying to find scum.

 
He does defend himself about his read on Tom in this post but that was a bit unconvincing as he essentially used an excuse of testing others reads here.

 

Overall, i see him all around the place without a strong stance on anyone. His nudging at various places and flip-flops were definitely bad. Also didn't like the unnecessary connections with Dice. 

 

 

 

[Pralaya]

Yates case: (Ignore the earlier one as it had some formatting errors)

 

 

 

Yates, at the start of the game, looked to be playing both sides without taking a stance. At some points, he was putting forth some points against Turin regarding his going after TG and other times directing Des while he was arguing with Turin. The tone he was using was overly careful not to antagonize and being an eagerly,  helpful townie. 

 

 

I don't know how a Town Miller would behave.

Not to be overly nitpicky here but I'm going to be overly nitpicky. What did you mean by Town Miller? Why add the Town part? Have you been in games with a Scum Miller? I think they are just called Godfathers. *shrug*

 

 

 

I have never once said you said the cop should view TG. SHOW ME where I said that Ithi, cause you and Turin are starting to misrep hardcore.

I think they are talking about this:

 

Everyone walks away. Cop doesn't view. It's just perfect.

 

I may just be contrary - but if no Mafia has ever done this, why the hell not?

Underlined: You seriously trying to say the Cop should view TG after he claimed Miller? Are you seriously saying that?]/b] Regardless of whether TG is faking Miller or not, Cop viewing him would be an absolutely terrible idea

 

 

 

Along with occasional nudging

 

 

Turin was NOT interested in pressuring TG for his claim, yet he is trying to act like he was. Ithi DID come in instantly with the vote, but Turin is now trying to take credit for skepticism of the claim that he did not truly express.

This is the problem with hydras. You raise an excellent point, overall. HOWEVER, I was just put in a position where I had to back up the other head of my hydra on a couple of things we maybe weren't 100% in agreement on. And it looked a lot like this.

 

Maybe +0.5 scum points? Slightly more scum than null? With the TOWN Miller thing being another +0.5 I guess they can have 1 scum point.

 

 

After that, he suddenly started going against Krak, maybe for being inactive. But, tries to spin it as "something being wrong"

 

[unvote]

[v]Krak[/v]

 

Something is not right.

 

The sum total of Krak's contribution to this game so far:

 

 

Best protein bar ever made. Amazing flavor, best macros and doesn't kill your stomach like other cheaper bars do.

 

Quest bar is tasty, agreed.  I'm a big fan of the chocolate mint cliff protein bar.

 

 

White chocolate macadamia myself.  The coconut chocolate ain't bad neither.

 

 

 

I felt this would have been fine if he was just saying that he is being inactive, like others said. But, the tone here looked opportunistic. And, he completely drops this after some time. 

 

Then, this is where he starts his nudging of Tom. Again with the "something off" argument, this time for a different reason

 

SOMETHING is off about Tommy this game. That's for sure. I just can't tell if it's because Tommy!scum or new players being involved that have other meta info on him.

 

That's not a great response by Tommy. Feeling a stronger lean towards Tommy!scum.

 

 Then, this point caught me as I reading through the second time.Yates randomly mentions that Dice has changed his "town play". The interesting thing here is that Dice starts using that excuse later in the game on why he is playing different. This could be co-incidence or even Dice realizing that he can use this to defend himself, but it was really odd, especially as Dice gameplay till this point was just an off-topic conversation with Yates ! 

 

 

Generally if someone's playstyle is different from what you usually see, they're > rand scum.

Or they are trying something new. Dice totally changed his Town play 3[?] games ago. I was only able to recognize it the second time because we had a conversation about it post game and I held him to it on the second.

 

 

Later, this post was interesting where he was saying that he is somewhat interested in lynching me. Also, he brings up Krak agter a long time and it is sort of conflicting. But, what makes it interesting is his 360 degree turn when Tommy suggests a CFD on me later during the day. Don't think I had a lot of posts in between to change his mind suddenly. 

 

I would be down for a Pral lynch if it hadn't ended badly last time I was convinced he was scum lurking.

 

As I probably alluded to when I said I wasn't down with a D1 Tommy lynch before, I think I'd be okay with lynching a non-contributor even if only to change the lurker meta on this site.

 

I'm stiull happy with my Krak vote. Krack is whack.

 

 Surprised here that he claims he wouldn't lynch Tommy. Especially when he was nudging TOmmy before this period and after this period.

 

I think my list of people I won't lynch today is probably shorter than the other.

 

AJ, Des, Slendy, TG, Tommy

 

Yup. That's it.

 

THAT nudge again 

 

 

His play so far makes me think he's town but Tom's a good player so I don't want to clear him.

SO. MUCH. THIS.

 

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

 

Glad I unvoted you.

 

 

Wasn't he down for a Pral lynch sometime back? Hmmm

 

I feel like Pral is easy lynch bait. Not going there today.

 

 

What is concerning??

When did you come up with this Pral tell? That looks like a lot of work.

 

 

As i had mentioned earlier, this looks like Yates trying to get some town cred if in case I get lynched and flip town. Especially if he gets to trap Tommy in the process. He mentioned and talked a lot earlier about how he found the lurkers scummy and suddenly shifting the stance to defending me rang quite some bells. 

 

Same thing he does with Dice. He goes from defending dice to suspectin him to defending him to suspecting him. Unnecessary connections which is what makes me feel they are teammates

 

I'm still on SP. I'm not convinced that Vos is scum but I've liked Slendy's thread presence so I could sheep. Even if only to prevent Arsis from being lynched because I'm much more convinced that Arsis is Town than Vos.

 

I would still rather lynch Hally or SP, though. If I have time I'll try to build a Hally case but look at Dice's last post for some pretty solid posting.

 

I need to go put beer in a barrel so I'm out. Try to be back before deadline.

 

Meh.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Hally[/v]

 

Next time answer some questions when they are directed at you.

 

 

honest question. Can hydras be of both alignments?  ie 1 town 1 mafia?

Do you know what a hydra is? It's two people that got the same role PM from the mod playing in the same slot.

 

Debbie Gibson?? ELECTRIC YOUTH!!   fistbumps the brother from the other side of the world   or would if he didnt have abba in that list.  Im disappointed yates. Disappointed.

In my defense that was a list of Christian Rock Bands - and Debbie Gibson - and Abba [for Darthe].

 

Plus, you know I was always partial to Kylie.

 

Are you Town this game, Dice? I want you to be Town but I don't see you Town telling. And that makes me sad.

 

 

Then on D2, he starts the setup talk which distracted the scum hinting quite a bit

 

Town poisoner?

 

No. That smells like 3rd party killer trying to find scum.

 

He does defend himself about his read on Tom in this post but that was a bit unconvincing as he essentially used an excuse of testing others reads here.

 

 

 

[Yates]

Thanks, Pral. Did a quick skim of your first version.  Let me take a look and respond.  Some of your early concerns are valid, but for the wrong reasons - as you will see. 

[Yates]

Hope this helps:

 

Yates, at the start of the game, looked to be playing both sides without taking a stance.

I do not disagree with you. This, however, is not indicative of a scum game. This is indicative, at least in my case, of someone trying to figure out the game and seeing where people are going with different lines of questioning.

 

The tone he was using was overly careful not to antagonize and being an eagerly, helpful townie.

I do not disagree with you here, either. Without expanding on this too much, it's part of why I asked Darthe how he got a read on me given that he noticed this as well. Not only did he notice it, in fact, but he recognized it as my scum meta.

 

Since I'm going to run into a quote limit - let me respond to points from here on out.

 

1. Town Miller. I thought I saw something there, as I said in thread, but it wasn't major. That's not the same as claiming someone is scum.

 

2. Des quote - Des claimed he never accused Ithi of directing the cop. I showed Des the post where he accused Ithi of directing the cop. Regardless of my read on Ithi, that's a provable contradiction. What you bring up here is more evidence of Yates trying to figure out alignments and agendas.

 

3. Nudging. Not quite sure how you get nudging out of the quoted post. would again argue that you are illustrating a person trying to resolve alignments.

 

4. Krak - As illustrated in your posts, I "went after Krak" because he only had one [non game related] post. That didn't sit right with me and I felt like he needed a prod.

 

5. Tommy feeling off - If you've been reading along at home, you'd see I continue to push that narrative. And it is clear, not only to me, that Tommy is playing differently. He later conceded that this point may be true and suggested it might have something to do with his mood or his role.

 

6. Dice meta - not sure what you are saying here?

 

I think the more interesting part of this quote is where manbat could be perceived as cheerleading me to vote for Tommy - who I was [and continue to be] still trying to figure out.

 

7. Pral lynch - I think you are misreading that quote. I was saying I would not support a Pral lynch. I was saying the reason I wasn't supporting a Pral lynch is because you looked just like you did in [Woodstock?] when we mislynched you as Town. So a Pral wagon didn't give me good feelings.

 

8. Tommy lynch - I can recognize that someone's game is different and question why others aren't seeing that while also not being willing to lynch them. That is the case here. That actually is supported by the SP/Yates quote you are calling a "nudge." That's not a "nudge," that's me showing gratitude for someone that is at least claiming to see what I've been trying to point out about how lock Towning someone for suspect/no reason doesn't make sense from a Town perspective.

 

9. Lynch bait - Given point 8, I think you see where I've been consistent in not wanting to lynch you up to this point.

 

10. The Trap - Caught red handed. That was a trap. I talked about it in the game, though. Feel free to take a look.

 

11. Brother Dice - I agreed with his points on Hally. That doesn't mean I think Dice is lock Town. How many times have you seen me agree with Tommy in this game? You know what I think of him. Even scum can make good points in an attempt to look Town, from time to time.

 

12. Setup spec - I disagree. Setup spec is pretty much the opposite of a distraction. Well, maybe if you are a purely "intuitive" scum hunter you might have a point. But for those of us that are more logical/methodical, knowing possible roles helps to eliminate suspects and focus our search while avoiding misleading gambits. Just look at the way I treated Csarmi's gambit, as an example. I sniffed out the gambit immediately BECAUSE of that speculation. Plus, we kind of need to know if that's a vig kill versus 3rd party vs 2nd scum team as that will give us a better idea of how close we are to LYLO. If anything, I think you once again actually do more to illustrate a Town mindset than a scum mindset.

[Tommyrod]

By the by Yates do you still think I'm "different?" Because you would now be wrong.

[Yates]

By the by Yates do you still think I'm "different?" Because you would now be wrong.

I'll tell you what... I had an idea come to me while in my thinky place [yes - on the toilet].

 

You've been the Town "leader" for two days now and we have zero caught scum to show for it. Burden of leadership - but that's not a great result for you. At the very least, you must acknowledge that you don't have the kind of solid big picture understanding of this Town as you would probably want as Town. What if we let someone else drive for a bit? You look sleepy.

 

I propose we let Slendy [consensus Town read] take over for a bit. Town needs a new direction and I feel like this could be a nice shot in the arm. Plus, I think it will generate some new activity and possibly help expose new angles of approach to this game.

 

Sound reasonable?

[Darthe]

I feel like a citizen watching parliment make choices.

 

How about I lead town and after all of the townies are dead the scum will become apparent?

[Darthe]

How many scum does everyone think are in the following group?

 

Arsis 

Yates

Halligedon

Tomstress

Sickpuppets

[Hallia]

Mayyybe 1

[dicetosser1]

maybe 2 darthe.

 

 

 

By the by Yates do you still think I'm "different?" Because you would now be wrong.

 

 

thats not neccesarily a good thing. You were playing differently. People called you on it. You change to be more "normal" Could be seen as trying to allay our fears. Pointing it out makes it feel worse.

[Tommyrod]

Come on Dice. Everything makes you "feel bad." When are you going to learn that mafia don't blatantly point out things? They subtly hint at things.

[Tommyrod]

Yates I would love if Slender posted up a storm and cheered some leads. The thread feels emptier without him. It's like the same 5 people talking to themselves.

[Darthe]

Dice says you stink.

 

Dice has a valid reason for saying you stink.

 

I say you're supposed to be stinky as town.

 

Reason is you smell like peaches and cream as scum.

 

Same goes for Yates.

 

Know who looks to clean?  Des.

 

Is that counter-intuitive logic?  Yes.  What do we call counter-intuitive logic based on the things we know about people?  We call it meta.  

 

Come argue it.

[Tommyrod]

Darthe is that a fair and balanced stance though?

[Darthe]

Nope.  Is it supposed to be?  I really hate censoring myself as town.  It makes for cleaner games but I don't want to lose gracefully.  

[Yates]

Know who looks to clean?  Des.

 

Is that counter-intuitive logic?  Yes.  What do we call counter-intuitive logic based on the things we know about people?  We call it meta.  

 

Come argue it.

What makes Des "too clean?" Recent meta suggests otherwise. VERY recent meta from a Darthe game, in fact. Disagree?

[Darthe]

Yes.  To be fair he has gotten difficult for me to read since he upped his scum game so I don't have a dedicated tell for him anymore but I expect town Des to be blowing this thread apart by now.  He should be clearly upset about the state of a thread that isn't producing results and yet he is still pack hunting in this case.