[Standard] Cory vs. Bad Dietary Habits & Laziness Mafia, Mafia Sweep

[Tyler Glembo]

So why aren't we lynching Darthe then?

 

Because when I voted there I got almost zero traction.  I'd like Darthe to be a competing train but without a serious CFD TI is today's lynch.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I think Darthe is using made up Meta reads on me to paint me as Mafia. He had to back track and twist around after the initial info he gave was duff.

 

 

Tommy then rallied round and posted a hell of a lot of stuff about Turin again. It's like he didn't want to address my posts as I'm a lot more open and less controlled than Turin. He always talks like he's still in the Navy. He's also been quite concerned about me and things that are happening.

 

I would say you need to ensure people give really clear reasons for voting us. A lot of them seem wishy washy.

 

Perhaps we would be better off just being absent like a lot of the participants seem to be. But we do try and join in - even though that means we become a target.

 

I would watch them carefully as the game progresses.

[Darthe]

So why aren't we lynching Darthe then?

Cause I'm townie and I know it.  

 

More imporantly the only people who don't think so are you (butthurt over me calling you scum tbf), Ithi (lol do I even?) and TG (doesn't agree with my reads, a bit of blinders but still doesn't look bad for it).

 

Oh and your other hydra heads for the two of you that have them but thats 1 slot so.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I know I'm Town. It doesn't seem to count for toffee as a reason not to Lynch

 

[unvote]

[V]Darthe[/v]

[csarmi]

 

 

Why not Darthe? Tell me why Tommy is town here.

Do u read mah words? I pointed out another reason tommy was town like two pages back.

Couldn't find. Went back four pages.

[Darthe]

Darthe I need a 'how to read Tommy' course.

If he is alive at endgame and most scum aren't dead we kill him.  If he is making less sense than normal he is town.  Tommy is a creature of control.  As mafia he already knows everything he needs so he uses the leg up to appear like he is amazingly good at finding scum and figuring out who is town.   Here he looks earnest about finding them, a bit lost and willing to field less popular views or risky ones and he is frustrated that people don't take that as town play because it frankly isn't on par with his scum play.

 

I'm at a loss as to how that is mafia of him.  It could be faked but someone being able to play you well enough to trick you as either alignment doesn't warrant their lynch.  It warrants us improving until we can tell the difference, otherwise Tommy would be the first lynch in either game since you're essentially saying he is too good to take the risk of him living.  

[Darthe]

 

So why aren't we lynching Darthe then?

 

Because when I voted there I got almost zero traction.  I'd like Darthe to be a competing train but without a serious CFD TI is today's lynch.

 

Why would you get any real traction?  The only three people who think I'm scum are you (still not sure what you're seeing, you've said you didn't like my reads but thats null reasoning) and two people who most people think/have thought were scum for the majority of the game.  

 

It isn't inspiring.  Nor is it logically based from what I've seen.

[Tyler Glembo]

Cause I'm townie and I know it.  

 

More imporantly the only people who don't think so are you (butthurt over me calling you scum tbf), Ithi (lol do I even?) and TG (doesn't agree with my reads, a bit of blinders but still doesn't look bad for it).

 

No no and no.  You have a bunch of reads in a 150 PAGE GAME that have crap reasons like "Gut" and "Soulread" and even when you do make a statement it ends with a qualifier.  Some of your other real time talk has been a bit better but that doesn't excuse the scumtell reads post.

[csarmi]

Darthe where do you count me? I didn't just vote you for no reason ye know.

[Tyler Glembo]

 

Darthe I need a 'how to read Tommy' course.

If he is alive at endgame and most scum aren't dead we kill him.  If he is making less sense than normal he is town.  Tommy is a creature of control.  As mafia he already knows everything he needs so he uses the leg up to appear like he is amazingly good at finding scum and figuring out who is town.   Here he looks earnest about finding them, a bit lost and willing to field less popular views or risky ones and he is frustrated that people don't take that as town play because it frankly isn't on par with his scum play.

 

I'm at a loss as to how that is mafia of him.  It could be faked but someone being able to play you well enough to trick you as either alignment doesn't warrant their lynch.  It warrants us improving until we can tell the difference, otherwise Tommy would be the first lynch in either game since you're essentially saying he is too good to take the risk of him living.  

 

 

Tommy scum also is more prone to emotional manipulation than Tommy town.  I told him that before though, so he has likely incorporated that into his meta.

[Darthe]

Hell Salami I can't find it but I remember typing it last night.  I said "This is good" and went on to explain that you can see Tommy's though process through the entire game in one minor thing based on a post he made.  

 

He posted that based on my read of Turins' meta he would be willing to sus Turin and began to examine him in various ways.  What made that valuable is that whether or not I am town or not I am unlikely to fake someone elses meta read on here and Tommy trusts that (and me which strengthens it) so he has been following through with reading Turin in regards to it.  That sort of thing is very small, not something I would see mafia doing unless they were trying to both scapegoat (me in this case) and set up a mislynch (TI if he was mafia).  But keeping it logical with "I trust Darthe, I trust his meta, this is what he says, this is your behavior, here it is compared to previous games, here are the conclusions I draw from that" over this much time is a minor POV I don't think Tommy could reliably keep up for this long, not without slipping up somewhere.

[Darthe]

 

Cause I'm townie and I know it.  

 

More imporantly the only people who don't think so are you (butthurt over me calling you scum tbf), Ithi (lol do I even?) and TG (doesn't agree with my reads, a bit of blinders but still doesn't look bad for it).

 

No no and no.  You have a bunch of reads in a 150 PAGE GAME that have crap reasons like "Gut" and "Soulread" and even when you do make a statement it ends with a qualifier.  Some of your other real time talk has been a bit better but that doesn't excuse the scumtell reads post.

 

Lol do you not know me?  I don't keep notes, I don't read back if I have too much to do (which I do) and I don't bother with things that don't interest me.  You got a reads list because Tommy requested one and it is based on my memory of what of the game I read.  

[Darthe]

 

 

Darthe I need a 'how to read Tommy' course.

If he is alive at endgame and most scum aren't dead we kill him.  If he is making less sense than normal he is town.  Tommy is a creature of control.  As mafia he already knows everything he needs so he uses the leg up to appear like he is amazingly good at finding scum and figuring out who is town.   Here he looks earnest about finding them, a bit lost and willing to field less popular views or risky ones and he is frustrated that people don't take that as town play because it frankly isn't on par with his scum play.

 

I'm at a loss as to how that is mafia of him.  It could be faked but someone being able to play you well enough to trick you as either alignment doesn't warrant their lynch.  It warrants us improving until we can tell the difference, otherwise Tommy would be the first lynch in either game since you're essentially saying he is too good to take the risk of him living.  

 

 

Tommy scum also is more prone to emotional manipulation than Tommy town.  I told him that before though, so he has likely incorporated that into his meta.

 

Maybe, but he isn't a wizard.  

 

I've picked him out as scum before, even in the champs game we played (I still am saddened that town didn't show up for DL on that one), and while he could be evolving quick enough to always fool some of us he can't trick all of us each game.  Too many variables for control.  If TI are town it would point to Tommy being scum more than anything else has so far.

[Darthe]

Darthe where do you count me? I didn't just vote you for no reason ye know.

Count you?  You were second to last on my list but your claim protects you.  I still think you/Hally could be a scum healer (not that uncommon, especially if the poisoner is 3p) so you're tentatively in my light green for now.  I want to see TG protected before moving further with that but either way you're off the table for today.

[Tyler Glembo]

Lol do you not know me?  I don't keep notes, I don't read back if I have too much to do (which I do) and I don't bother with things that don't interest me.  You got a reads list because Tommy requested one and it is based on my memory of what of the game I read. 

 

I know you well enough to expect more.  Either that or your memory is failing in your old age. 

 

Maybe, but he isn't a wizard.  

 

I've picked him out as scum before, even in the champs game we played (I still am saddened that town didn't show up for DL on that one), and while he could be evolving quick enough to always fool some of us he can't trick all of us each game.  Too many variables for control.  If TI are town it would point to Tommy being scum more than anything else has so far.

 

 

I've picked him out as as scum also in the Tron game.  And I somewhat agree on the TI flip, but I'm not ready to go full lockstock on that since I have TI as heavy scum...speaking of which, votes needed people.

[Tommyrod]

TG you're mistaken about two things.

 

1. That I've made up meta reads. That's incorrect. I had a strong meta interpretation of Swag's play from memory that didn't end up being exactly correct when I looked at past games, so I adjusted it.

 

2. That I'm emotionally manipulative. That's incorrect. You guys are frustrating ME; I am not purposefully frustrating YOU. Can you see the difference here? You're claiming that "Tommy being emotional" is a scum tell. It's not. Me demotivating other people... that probably is. My getting fed up with people like Yates pestering me with dumb reasons when I'm obvious town isn't me demotivating him, it's me telling him flat out that he's wrong.

 

 

And Salami feel free to read my posts in depth and ask me about my play, but don't sit around going "why is Tom clear again?" like you have Alzheimer's.

[Tyler Glembo]

TG you're mistaken about two things.

 

1. That I've made up meta reads. That's incorrect. I had a strong meta interpretation of Swag's play from memory that didn't end up being exactly correct when I looked at past games, so I adjusted it.

 

2. That I'm emotionally manipulative. That's incorrect. You guys are frustrating ME; I am not purposefully frustrating YOU. Can you see the difference here? You're claiming that "Tommy being emotional" is a scum tell. It's not. Me demotivating other people... that probably is. My getting fed up with people like Yates pestering me with dumb reasons when I'm obvious town isn't me demotivating him, it's me telling him flat out that he's wrong.

 

Actually Tommy, you need to re-read for clarity. 

 

2) I didn't say you were being emotionally manipulative here, though are you getting close with calling questioning "dorky", etc.  I did say that it is a scum tell of yours and that you have done it in the past.  Specifically, you did it to me in the Tron game.  Go back and look at my D1 case on you if you can't remember.  Clov even commented in your scum QT how good of a case it was.

 

1) As for making up meta reads, I stated "logic fails at meta."  You cited swAg's meta extensively in your early defense when I was voting TSB, then linked to it in 4 seperate games with his first 5 posts, and then I pointed out that it was wrong as swAg made gameplay posts ~2/5 early game posts where he didn't here.  You only changed tune after I pointed it out and claimed that it was a ploy to see if others (Arsis I believe) would be able to pick that up.  Either you made it up, you misremembered, swAg's meta is changing, or whatever.  Nomatter the reason it is a logic fail on your part. 

[Ithillian Turambar]

I don't believe Tommy is being emotionally manipulative. I'm quite sesitive to such things and people know they can use that against me. When I asked Tommy to not say a certain thing he just stopped. He didn't question or drag it out for 3 pages as a means of making me lose the plot. He just moved on.

 

So - no emotional manipulation from Tommy.

[Tyler Glembo]

Also, emotionally manipulative means a lot more than just purposely frustrating.  It ranges from buddying to using authority to engender positive feelings to controlling thread flow to debase another's arguments based on crap like whether they are a good player or not.  So don't limit what I'm saying to "frustrating." 

[Tommyrod]

Logic fail is not always equal to scummy behavior so why do you keep mentioning it as if it is? If I just apologize for not being clearer to begin with will you drop it? I do not want to be lynched in this game and I ESPECIALLY do not want to be lynched for abstract reasons like this.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Are there only 6 or 7 people left in this game?

[Tyler Glembo]

Logic fail is not always equal to scummy behavior so why do you keep mentioning it as if it is? If I just apologize for not being clearer to begin with will you drop it? I do not want to be lynched in this game and I ESPECIALLY do not want to be lynched for abstract reasons like this.

 

I'm going to drop it regardless of you asking and move on.  Unless you slip again, then I'll bring it up coupled with the new slip and look at patterns of behavior.  And yeah, if you want proof that logic fail isn't a scum tell look at half the cases made by players who ascribe to the firing the brush style of scumhunting.

[Tyler Glembo]

EBWOP: Logic fail isn't necessarily scummy.  Logic fail by you *might* be. 

 

Anyways, dropped, let's lynch T/I and move on.

[Turin Turambar]

Lol tommy lynch?

 

Nope.

 

[v] TI [/v]

 

I'm still like 60% on them (since NOBODY gave a damn about my analysis or commented on what they saw there) maybe a bit higher now, but IMO this lynch is warranted. Also how is Arsis still off the table?

Warranted= preemptive defense because he knows we flip town. Setting the table for they played.bad.

 

Break over.

[Tyler Glembo]