Question about the characters? *Currently on The Great Hunt*

[MasterAblar]

Isn't the AntiChrist the bad guy, Wouldn't Rand be morel ike Jesus, destined to die for everyone else to save them?

 

People tend to focus more on the Destruction and Chaos part than the Saving Your Asses one. LTT left a rather mediocre legacy (to be fair people only remember the worst of him), so people aren't very optimistic when it comes to the Dragon.

[Lyanna Tears]

I could have written this post. Rand and Perrin are constantly thinking or saying they didn't ask for any of it. It's whining and not a attractive feature for main protagonists. What bothers me the most is how they all seem to be against Moraine even though she saved their lives repeatedly. No appreciation at all. I love the story and adventures but the characters leave a lot to be desired. Except for Moraine and Lan. They're awesome.

 

 

 

 

If I look back, I'm lost...

[Sabio]

You are forgetting, everyone is taught don't trsut Aes Sedai, they do things for their own reasons, and never say what you think they say.  Thom even tells the boys to becareful.  So this lady shows up out of nowhere just when trollocs attack and tells you that you have to go now, and poof you are running away with her.  Are they really suppose to suddenly go, ohhh ok Aes Sedai are cool.  Rand knows Moraine and siuan are up to something.  Moraine in the great hunt packs his clothes, packs the banner, and makes sure he is second in command.  How could Rand not be suspicious.  I would of been angry had they all just suddenly decided to trust her and not question what she was doing.  Then Verin shows up out of nowhere.  Now yes I found it odd in the first book how they seemed to believe more of what Balzamon said then Moriane.  But After Tam, and Thom both warn Rand to be wary around Moraine why would they just trust her?   These are boys from a secluded location with very limited contact with strangers, they have good reason to be suspicious of her motives. 

[Diana Petrescu]

What bothers me the most is how they all seem to be against Moraine even though she saved their lives repeatedly. 

I think what is apparent pretty early on is that Moiraine doesn't really care about Perrin, Rand and Mat specifically. In the sense that she doesn't care about their well being as much as she does about making sure that Rand does what he's supposed to do. Perrin and Mat are taveren and monkeys in the wrench so to speak because Moiraine knew about the Dragon Reborn, but I doubt anybody knew that he's gonna have two buddies that are instrumental in the fight against the Dark One. Moiraine sees the forest and doesn't give two shits about the trees... in the beginning at least. You see her come head to head with Lan over this, when Moiraine is acting all drill sergeant with the boys and Lan looks on disapprovingly, maybe even tells her, in his own Lan-ish way, to cut them some slack.

 

Now I see the boys, despite their "aw, shucks I'm just a [insert title here]" mentality, picking on Moiraine's clarity of purpose. Maybe in the first two books they don't know exactly what is going on but they know that Moiraine knows more then they do and she ain't telling them. It's not just about Aes Sedai poor public relations strategy, it's about them being aware that they are just cogs in the great machine and what they know or care about is not important.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Exactly. 

 

Just because she has saved their lives, doesn't mean she won't put them through a living hell if need be.

 

She's doing what's good for the world; not them. 

 

 

Rand's life as the Dragon Reborn is basically this: "Yes, I save the world. But also, I have to die to do so. Oh, and I'll go mad due to the taint and possibly kill everyone around me. Also, I'm the reincarnation of one of the most feared men in history, who killed his whole family then himself because of the taint induced insanity. Pretty much anyone who finds out I can channel or I'm the Dragon Reborn is going to want to kill me." 

 

Not only that, but Moiraine doesn't even sit him down and explain things to him. She literally tells him he's the Dragon Reborn then stops talking to him for weeks. Then, a bunch of Aes Sedai turn up. She manipulates him (designing clothes with Dragons on them, hiding the Dragon Banner in his pack. Giving him command of their little hunting party if Ingtar dies) forcing him into doing things without so much as an explanation. 

 

Remembering he has just seen Logain - a false Dragon - carted off in chains to the White Tower to be gentled. While of course we the reader know that Rand is the Dragon Reborn, beyond the fact that he can channel, there is no proof that he is any different from Logain at this point. 

 

Why on earth would he trust her? It is unfair to expect Rand to say "you know what, you guys are right. I gotta save the world. I'll do what you say and proclaim myself the reincarnation of the most feared man beyond the Forsaken. I'm cool with going mad then dying for everyone. Just tell me where to sign..." 

 

Mat and Perrin have it worse. They both have special qualities that are unexplained and strange, but to Moiraine at the time, they aren't important. All she wants is the Dragon Reborn. 

 

Perrin isn't stupid enough to believe that everyone will be cool with his abilities if he just says " I don't really know what is happening with my power but don't worry guys, the wolves told me they hate the Shadow as much as you guys, it's all good." The Shadow is full of lies, how is Perrin supposed to believe wolves that suddenly talk in his head? 

 

She has already said to them once that she would not hesitate to kill them before the Shadow got them. Why should they trust her? If it benefited the world, she would kill them in a heartbeat. Should they then just accept that and say "Fair enough, she's got a point. Let's just go along and see what happens." 

 

They have no idea what she might force them to do, or what she might do if they do something she deems is 'wrong'. They know they are just pawns in game, and their opinions or interests mean nothing. 

 

This is the reason Nynaeve hates her. She knows this fact, and wants to protect the boys and Egwene as much as she can. 

 

In fact, I'd say Egwene was the foolish one for jumping the gun and running blindly after Moiraine and the Aes Sedai, all because Moiraine said she had potential and she would be trained. She didn't think of the possibility that she was allowed along simply to give Rand a reason not to run away, so he would stay and 'protect' her. Nor the fact that they might want to keep her close to be used as a link to the Dragon Reborn. She never thought that maybe they could control him if they had the woman he cares so much about in their hands as, effectively, a hostage. To force him to do what they wished if it came down to it. 

 

Now, that doesn't negate the fact that it might get annoying to hear it repeatedly. However, they don't trust her or the Aes Sedai for good reason. They are not privy to Moiraine's thoughts like the reader is. 

[Lyanna Tears]

I'm only at the end of book 2 so my judgement is limited. Moraine is about the big picture. I understand her willingness to sacrifice the boys. Her quest is noble. It's for the greater good. Rand & Co for now are about self-perseveration. Very human though.

 

 

 

 

If I look back, I'm lost...

[Lyanna Tears]

Moraine still gave them a choice. She could've forced them. She has the power. To me she is trying to guide them. Think about how Elaida would've treated Rand and how Linandrian (Sorry if spelling is incorrect) treated him at Fal Dara. They should be wary of Moraine but at what point do they realize she is not as bad as they make her out to be? To me Moraine has helped them and unless she plans to kill them it's for the greater good. It's all about the bigger picture.

 

 

 

 

If I look back, I'm lost...

[Barid Bel Medar]

This discussion is limited to the end of Book 2, so we aren't talking about the rest of the series, just what has happened so far. So your fine :) 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Moiraine, she is one of my favourite characters. I understand her motives and goals perfectly well. I even agree with what she did. 

 

However, I can see why the boys are so distrustful. Particularly Rand. She doesn't tell him anything beyond basically, he's the saviour of the world. Then manipulates him into proclaiming himself the Dragon Reborn. 

 

While they complain about Moiraine, and certainly don't trust her fully. They DO trust her more than any other Aes Sedai. They realise that she isn't bad and she is only doing things for the greater good. They just want to understand what is happening, and are frustrated that Moiraine won't tell them much.

 

Mat and Nynaeve are different.

 

Nyanaeve has her own issues with Moiraine, and Mat just plain dislikes Aes Sedai and wants nothing to do with the Power. He's a rebellious soul who dislikes any form of authority basically. However, they don't stay that way forever. It just takes a little more time because they are particularly stubborn. 

[Diana Petrescu]

I believe the OP's question was "do these boys (and girls) ever get character development?". Clearly the answer is yes. I would caution readers though that character development is not about characters starting to act more like how YOU, as a reader, want them to act. There are lots of things Rand and the others do or don't do, say or don't say, think or don't think that I don't agree with (i'm on the 4th book at this point). But if the writer is good enough to make me understand their reasoning/thought process, than it is not bothersome for me. Ultimately the characters' attitudes in the first few books will not be to everybody's liking.

 

But it's again a testament to Jordan's skill that despite that one still feels compelled to read on. 

[Lyanna Tears]

Jordan Robert writing style is fantastic. His world is so descriptive I feel a part of it. I brought all the books only after reading the first one. It has lived up to the hype I heard about it unlike The Sword of Shannara(?) and The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Off to finish book 2.

 

 

 

 

If I look back, I'm lost...

[dexterryu]

Moraine still gave them a choice. She could've forced them. She has the power. To me she is trying to guide them. Think about how Elaida would've treated Rand and how Linandrian (Sorry if spelling is incorrect) treated him at Fal Dara. They should be wary of Moraine but at what point do they realize she is not as bad as they make her out to be? To me Moraine has helped them and unless she plans to kill them it's for the greater good. It's all about the bigger picture. If I look back, I'm lost...

 

Moraine's problem isn't that she's bad, it's just that her delivery and manner don't help her when it comes to people trusting her. She doesn't realize that she could accomplish her goals a little easier if she took on more of the manner she did when she healed Tam than when she is manipulating. Without spoiling anything I can say that she does eventually learn her lesson.

 

She is one of my favorite characters in any series, but early on in the series the way she goes about things does cause her to get into her own way somewhat.

[Cosmic Champion]

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[mb]

cosmic champion, the original poster asked for no spoilers past Great Hunt.

[Cosmic Champion]

Oops. Sorry about that. fixed.