Freemasons vs. Illuminati - LOOKING FOR ONE MORE PLAYER, QUICK GAME

[Cory Caboose]

whoops

 

delete meeeeeeee

[Andrej]

 

Do we have a day vig? Someone should vig Lenlo right now. I'd love that right now.

 

Do it! D1 vig dream!

 

Len, I've already made this dream come true for you.

[Andrej]

 

 

 

I'm saying 'for the luls' doesn't sound like justification to me. Obviously I saw the post if I'm able to comment on it.

 

You're reaching imo and your vote on me now is for what? Potentially skimming? Lol

 

Looking shaky right now bro.

 

[v]TG[/v]

 

Confirmed shook ITT.

 

I really just don't follow the thought process. Len goes from being 'vote worthy' for supposedly justifying his RVS (which I don't see) to turning on me for... what?

 

Why did Lenlo vote?  "For the lulz".  Giving a reason for the joke vote is the very definition of justification.  AJ, the fact that you're waffling on this, saying you saw it but it didn't really look like it, but that maybe you were potentially skimming isnt' a good look.  And then you retort but wait for Yates to vote me before taking action? 

 

AJ conf scum.

 

Follow me here AJ. 

 

You and I make tone reads and OP analysis type reads all the time.  I did one on Lenlo that probably shouldn't have raised your eyebrows, IMO.  Instead it did.  So I'm trying to figure out why.  Are you scum team?  Are you mason partners?  What is it that prompted your response to such an early vote with so little behind it?  Moreover, why did you mention skimming, coupled with saying you read it and it wasn't really scummy?  You don't really need multiple lines of defense so early in a game.  So yes, I'm going to turn on your for the early (unnecessary) defense of Lenlo coupled with your strange reasoning.

 

And don't answer about the mason thing, no need to get MK'd. 

 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/87219-basic-the-matrix-game-over/?p=3141125

 

This is the only one I've been able to find so far on this board and it was from a game several pages back so maybe a bit outdated. TG was town here though and I actually was mafia which makes it funny. It's not recent evidence so perhaps a bit ~null but it still proves that even TG has 'justified' his joke votes.

 

Will continue looking through some games on the others boards as well but for now I think I would very much enjoy seeing TG take the drop this game. I'm just really not buying that he sees any real value in over analyzing RVS votes and I dislike how he focused on semantics and immediately turned aggro towards me when responded to about it. Like I'm still baffled he handled my singular statement in the way he did.

 

AJ, you get some townie points for doing stuff like this.  But don't act like you can't figure out what was behind my early "case" on Lenlo followed by my quick flip for the first person to jump.  If I was on somebody else doing it you'd get it, I think you're being blinded by the fact that it's you.  Or your scum and doing it purposely.  Jury's still out.

 

You want the short and sweet?

 

You should be lynched and probably not play Mafia ever again if this is how you're gonna act to the slightest amount of pressure.

 

You are either a hinderance to Town or more simply scum and faking it. Get your shit together either way.

 

And since when did you become so aggro?  Tell Arsis he deserves to get lynched for his behavior with the self-vote, because he does for the AtE alone.  But telling him not to play mafia is bush-league.

 

 

 

 

I don't think that I've played with him as scum, so I don't know how well he can fake effort and conviction, but it looks fairly convincing for this stage of the game.

 

TG can display as high amount of motivation/conviction as scum. The recently ended Woodstock game is a perfect example of this.

 

Do me a favor Clov. Read through those posts again that you quoted above (that I spoilered) and try to draw a clear conclusion from them. I really can't.

 

I think TG was more trying to clear his trail after the fact for the way he reacted to me and since decided to disengage because I think it was clear that I'm solid in my resolve here.

 

 

I'd like to see what he has to say about the more recent voting.  I don't think his initial vote on Lenlo was opportunistic, and considering he was the one that started pressuring you, I don't see anything wrong with that.  Latter votes do look more sketchy.  Still, I'm not sure his early actions make sense from a scum perspective, and he seems to actually believe what he's saying.

 

I can follow this logic. Mostly agree. I don't typically unvote until I have a new target but meh. TG is <Rand to be scum.

 

[unvote]

 

I'm not following you here, unfortunately. For one, your vote was placed on TG more as a joke and then when things between us got heated you never really took part except to try and steer my attention elsewhere. I saw you mention earlier how it looked like TvT but I don't agree with you. I'm beginning to get the vibe that you and TG are perhaps connected in some way and you're avoiding him ITT.

[Lenlo]

 

 

Do we have a day vig? Someone should vig Lenlo right now. I'd love that right now.

 

Do it! D1 vig dream!

 

Len, I've already made this dream come true for you.

 

Really? When was this? Also its not the same if it isnt me.

[Andrej]

On a plane about to he wheels up.

 

[unote] [v]Lenlo[/v]

 

Lenlo looks ons scum meta so far, I think Despo made some good obs there. His commentary on Yates is crap, but can't win them all.

 

As for AJ, looking back to the early stuff I still don't like the skimming comment but since then he looks town. His refusal to vote Arsis even with all the aggro going on makes me certain AJ is either town for focusing on the win and not throwing out and emotional vote or they are scummates, and I'm leaning AJ town now.

 

Interesting.

 

Also, ftr, I don't really think Lenlo looks scummy here.

 

I'll reread him again but I think he's actually showing some backbone in his arguments although they might not come across as uber compelling. This is something he did with Cory in our recently finished game where he was getting pushed hard. If you look in Woodstock, he seemed much more... non confrontational towards aggression.

[Andrej]

 

 

 

Do we have a day vig? Someone should vig Lenlo right now. I'd love that right now.

 

Do it! D1 vig dream!

 

Len, I've already made this dream come true for you.

 

Really? When was this? Also its not the same if it isnt me.

 

When I drove your own shot back onto you in the DBZ game

[Arsis]

I have absolutely no idea what's going on in this game. We have two scum and a bunch of mason teams?

 

 

WWho is scum?

[Lenlo]

 

 

 

 

Do we have a day vig? Someone should vig Lenlo right now. I'd love that right now.

 

Do it! D1 vig dream!

 

Len, I've already made this dream come true for you.

 

Really? When was this? Also its not the same if it isnt me.

 

When I drove your own shot back onto you in the DBZ game

 

Ah yeah, that was you? That was beautiful. It wasnt D1 though. Tis dif.

[Andrej]

I have absolutely no idea what's going on in this game. We have two scum and a bunch of mason teams?

 

 

WWho is scum?

 

There are 3 scum and 9 townies.

 

The 'Illuminati' are basically a pair of Godfathers and they have a goon as well.

 

Town has 2 Mason pairs (4 players total)

 

A Masonic Seer (think flavor cop who gets results as Mason/not Mason)

 

and then the rest are VTs

 

So essentially - we have no legit way of catching scum besides making good lynches unless one of them derps and outright says they are/are not a Mason and then the Seer views them differently. Also we have no NK protection, so a townie dies every Night regardless.

[Andrej]

 

 

 

 

 

Do we have a day vig? Someone should vig Lenlo right now. I'd love that right now.

 

Do it! D1 vig dream!

 

Len, I've already made this dream come true for you.

 

Really? When was this? Also its not the same if it isnt me.

 

When I drove your own shot back onto you in the DBZ game

 

Ah yeah, that was you? That was beautiful. It wasnt D1 though. Tis dif.

 

It was

 

I took great joy it in as well. I think I have more cred than most in your 'club' since I actually offed you.

[Andrej]

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT 1:

 

TG (1): AJ

Lenlo (4): Despot, Key, TG, Arsis

Arsis (2): Clov, BFG

 

Not voting (4/12):

Dice, Hally, GF, Yates

 

No deadline yet.

 

 

This is accurate as of right now.

 

More TG votes imo

 

Not really seeing the Lenlo scumminess atm and that may be in part of how I view TG's vote hopping as opportunistic. I think lynching him is actually sort of premo because it can potentially vet 3 possible townies. Myself, Len and Arsis.

[Lenlo]

 

It was

 

I took great joy it in as well. I think I have more cred than most in your 'club' since I actually offed you.

 

Its true, your currently our number 1 supporter.

[Andrej]

Wait this is a serious argument? Im confused as to why you think thats justification TG, for what was a joke vote. "For the lulz" isnt an argument for anything nor is it justification. I dont need justification for a joke vote. Its the equivalent of me going "Hey Arsis remember that game you were a survivor? I do. With love."

 

I think this response is much more likely to come from a townie Len than scumm Len. This also prompted TG to go into his semantics spiel about what justification was/is which was completely out of context.

 

 

 

I dont need justification for a joke vote.

 

Exactly, you don't.   So why did you say it was "for the lulz"?

 

Because it was for the lulz...? The statement is exactly what the vote was for. I voted Arsis because it would be funny for me because of a previous game we played together in. I dont understand why your pushing this so much, this isnt your first time playing with me.

 

Colored for emphasize. Again, I think Len actually reacts pretty well here. I don't read this as defensive - I think he was just as mind boggled as I was at TG for what he was choosing to attack.

 

 

 

Oh... Thats what that second spoiler was. Welp. Im gonna... go try and be useful somewhere else I guess. Its not going so well on this front.

 

Not sure if genuine or if Lenlo is looking to get #derpcleared here.

 

I have my reservations on this because in the last game we played together Hallia made a similar post as mafia that I was able to kind of point to as something 'scum would never say'

 

Then how about you dont try to clear me on something that isnt gameplay? I hated how everyone that game cleared Hallia on something that wasnt actual gameplay.

 

That post was a joke about my being stupid, nothing more.

 

This is what I meant by Lenlo having ~backbone in his argument. He comes across pretty sharp here but not overly defensive. Feels genuine.

[Andrej]

 

This reads scummy. 'ahaha, it's funny to vote me'. I don't like it.

 

I also find it hard to believe that you don't know what RVS is considering how much mafia you play, but meh.

 

This type of play is par for the course for Lenlo.  The Cult of Lenlo joke is long standing.

 

Also, I'm vigging Lenlo tonight.  BOOM!

 

Found Len's response to this when looking through his ISO, so I decided to recheck TG to see where/when his view changed.

 

Key says she thinks Len is scummy for his reaction. TG makes a statement that I perceive as him saying Len is ~null

 

On a plane about to he wheels up.

 

[unote] [v]Lenlo[/v]

 

Lenlo looks ons scum meta so far, I think Despo made some good obs there. His commentary on Yates is crap, but can't win them all.

 

As for AJ, looking back to the early stuff I still don't like the skimming comment but since then he looks town. His refusal to vote Arsis even with all the aggro going on makes me certain AJ is either town for focusing on the win and not throwing out and emotional vote or they are scummates, and I'm leaning AJ town now.

 

No mention of Len again until this point where he votes him saying he's on his scum meta. Like I pointed out earlier with this vote and the previous one on Arsis, both had been coming under ~fire from others in the thread. Again - see: Opportunism or 'going with the flow'

 

Would like an explanation of where this changed for him.

[Andrej]

In summation:

 

Lenlo is probably town.

 

TG is probably mafia.

 

gg

[hazelkrs1]

Neglected one game last night so I'm going to be focusing on that for a while but catching up in this one after shouldn't take long

[Andrej]

 

 

We're all in agreement I'm a piece of human garbage and should be lynched.

 

Nobody think you're a piece of human garbage.  The issue is this, when you self-vote like you did it's basically a pity-play that appeals to our emotions.  In mafia it is very difficult to discern real emotion from fake, but scum tend to be more sensitive to getting lynched and respond emotionally whereas town tend to want to fight it harder for the good of the team.  

 

[v]Arsis[/v] 

 

Arsis - remember how I was saying you're attitude would make you an easy target?

 

Yeah.

 

This is what I was talking about.

 

Quoted again for posterity.

 

Like TG isn't even calling Arsis scum in this post. He just kind of gives him a Mafia theory lecture on what AtE is.

 

Lynching TG is premo.

 

Scum flip = AJ clear. Len clear. Arsis clear. Yates suspect.

 

Will root out the others soon enough.

 

Give me this, Town.

 

Follow me.

[Andrej]

Come with me

Hail Mary Nego, run - quick see

What do we have here now?

Do you want to ride or die?

Na-na-na-na nanana

[Arsis]

I'm half asleep

 

[unvote] [v] tg[/v]

 

Good night all.

[hazelkrs1]

WHELP

[Andrej]

WHELP

I hope you've got more than this.

[keyholder21]

Ugh im not arguing this point, its just going to turn into semantics. I know what I meant and I thought it obvious what I meant. It was apparently not, so I rephrased. End of.

 

I think AJ and Clov are town. Im null on TG, cant decide how I want to take his posts.

 

I would like to hear more from Dice, GF and BFG, though I know Dice was busy today with his daughters graduation. (Congrats on that btw!)

I don’t see how it’s semantics. Leaving something out is not semantics, imo.

 

I agree with wanting to hear more from those three, though.

 

 

I remember you defending my opinion on it, but I don't recall your feeling that way about going after inactives.

Check the QT. Posts 42 and 45.

 

"Frankly, I agree with you. They got pretty lucky on some lurker lynches and are misremembering it as they KNEW that lurker was scum. It happens a lot."

 

I suppose it could be trying to get AJ/TG out of the circle jerk they were in, but why ask about inactives in particular then? Why not ask about the rest of the players instead?

The game was more than half inactive. It was also a call to post, as I mentioned to you when you posted a few minutes later. It was like a swiss army knife of uses for me.

 

Okay, I went back and checked the QT. Not sure 42 fits, but I can see where you are going with 45. Still, in the other game that is going on right now, you have posted to the merit of lynching lurkers. I’m trying to not let that game affect me, but it’s hard to reconcile how you can have these two different point of views.

 

whoops

 

delete meeeeeeee

Lolcory.

[Yates]

...when things between us got heated you never really took part except to try and steer my attention elsewhere. I saw you mention earlier how it looked like TvT but I don't agree with you.

I didn't have a dog in the fight and had zero interest in the conversation. Figured you guys would work it out or some good info would come of it. Also, as I mentioned to Key, we were pretty much the only three posting at the time. It would have been nice to see comments from the rest of the player base without being preinformed of "Town consensus."

 

If you want my input? I gave it. You both looked like Town bickering over semantics. I'm over it.

[Andrej]

Okay.

 

Has your view changed at all on TG since?

 

Do you think I'm just completely barking up the wrong tree here?

 

I doubt it but I'll listen to contrary opinions.

[Yates]

I'm beginning to get the vibe that you and TG are perhaps connected in some way and you're avoiding him ITT.

I wish. A Yates/TG scum team would RECK. We've done it before [see Basterd mafia] and I didn't even KNOW he was my partner!

 

Also, I'm pretty sure I've responded to you both equally. You just have more posts. Is there a TG post you think I'm ignoring for some reason?