[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

[Tommyrod]

For the record I think Darthe and BFG can both be town, their interactions just seem frustrated, not wolfy.

 

E.g. I understand why BFG wanted to get clarification and I understand why Darthe didn't think it was important.

[Myndrunner]

That moment when you realize this game is comprised almost exclusively of players that are difficult to read.

^This.

 

Regardless of your take on my case against TG (and TG/Lenlo), what are everyone's thoughts on their reactions to it thus far?

[Tommyrod]

 

That moment when you realize this game is comprised almost exclusively of players that are difficult to read.

^This.

 

Regardless of your take on my case against TG (and TG/Lenlo), what are everyone's thoughts on their reactions to it thus far?

 

Rand gained the most townie points from that event.

[Myndrunner]

 

 

 

 

That moment when you realize this game is comprised almost exclusively of players that are difficult to read.

^This.
 
Regardless of your take on my case against TG (and TG/Lenlo), what are everyone's thoughts on their reactions to it thus far?

 

Rand gained the most townie points from that event.

 

 

 

 

Do you think TG and/or Len reacted appropriately or over-reacted?

[RandA lThor]

Rand, you realize I had the opposite interpretation, right?

Yeah, looking back, I didn't use the right transition word from your point to mine lol.

 

 

That moment when you realize this game is comprised almost exclusively of players that are difficult to read.

^This.

 

Regardless of your take on my case against TG (and TG/Lenlo), what are everyone's thoughts on their reactions to it thus far?

 

Like I said, didn't like TG cuz of his reaction and your case.  Lenlo's reaction I liked a little better, but due to his other posts that I've talked about, he is my top scum read.

[RandA lThor]

 

 

 

 

That moment when you realize this game is comprised almost exclusively of players that are difficult to read.

^This.

 

Regardless of your take on my case against TG (and TG/Lenlo), what are everyone's thoughts on their reactions to it thus far?

 

Rand gained the most townie points from that event.

 

 

 

 

Do you think TG and/or Len reacted appropriately or over-reacted?

Lol Mynd, you don't need to spoiler each quote you do, because then it just gets annoying.  Just spoiler the large ones.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

That moment when you realize this game is comprised almost exclusively of players that are difficult to read.

^This.

 

Regardless of your take on my case against TG (and TG/Lenlo), what are everyone's thoughts on their reactions to it thus far?

 

Rand gained the most townie points from that event.

 

 

 

Do you think TG and/or Len reacted appropriately or over-reacted?

 

Haven't been paying attention to Len, was hoping to talk 1:1 with him tonight. I'll go look.

[Myndrunner]

 

 

TLDR: You still haven't explained where your INITIAL read on Tommy came from.

 

 

Just to be clear here: This is not a leading, strategic or hinting question, but a genuine one: Do you feel it significant? Are you hinting at them being team-members, because I feel like a great big steaming pile of crap has been collected over Darthe saying he had a "slight villa lean" on Tommy. To me at least, it seems like scum picking up a slight inconsistency and latching on for dear life, moreso than scum slipping a team-mate. Coupled with RTCsarmi's fake scumhunting throughout the game, FOS once again. 

 

My take on Darthe's initial town lean on Tommy is that he really didn't have one but rather posted that to get Tommy on his side.  Not that this would make Darthe scummy, but he might be a bit shy of being in Tommy's cross-hairs.  I could be very wrong, but that is what I took from that. 

 

I personally don't have a town lean on Tommy right now.  I'm null to slightly scum, but that goes for most of the players right now.  Considering I start every game with everyone in the slightly scum motel, that doesn't really say much. 

 

Back to Darthe, I don't think his opening attempt at reading was thorough enough.   I think his first reads were more general feels.  If he is town, he needs to do a much better casing and consider multiple possibilities. 

[Myndrunner]

@Rand....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That moment when you realize this game is comprised almost exclusively of players that are difficult to read.

^This.
 
Regardless of your take on my case against TG (and TG/Lenlo), what are everyone's thoughts on their reactions to it thus far?

 

Rand gained the most townie points from that event.

 

 

 

 

Do you think TG and/or Len reacted appropriately or over-reacted?

Lol Mynd, you don't need to spoiler each quote you do, because then it just gets annoying.  Just spoiler the large ones.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[nervositee]

Vos, I don't really understand your objection to BFArmi trying to get a straight answer out of Darthe. I mean... I'm the one he was calling town, and even I noticed it likely a little premature, and in the worst case, he was fabricating reads.

 

Trying to derive an answer for the question of "was he B.S.ing?" isn't wolfy.

 

It isn't. But persisting on not letting it go is. If they were "Aha, random town read and unwilling to clarify!" and then either FOS him and move on or vote him. But he already stated he had said what he was going to say about the subject. So why pursue it? It's beating a dead horse with a stick. Also, it's a classic act of saying something over and over until people subconsciously think it's true. Look, it's even working. I would assume town to do what Mynd just did right above here. Observe it, ask a question, then make an assumption. Then Darthe can clear it up if he feels its wrong or ignore it. Keeping the subject in attention when it's obviously not going anywhere is scummy. 

 

Also, I've stated several times why I "object" (ie. find scummy) to BFArmi pursuing this. Scum tactic is finding a townie making a sort of inconsistency and trying to direct a mislynch on said inconsistency. Beside this BFArmi has done nothing but fake-hunt and prod. 

 

Tommy is looking better reacting, and bumps down to second place. BFArmi takes the lead. 

 

[unvote]

 

[v]BFArmi[/v]

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

I liked the tone of Rand's commentary in blue, it has a sharpness to it.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]NotBob[/v]

 

Does anyone think this guy is town? If so, please help me see it.

 

Any specifics to accompany vote?

 

 

 

 

What's up with the drunk guy? Different cultures, or scummy there?

Experience says he's trolling too hard to be scum. Having never played with him, I don't know for sure. He could just be the type to troll regardless of alignment. But both TG and Rand have declared him a bad vote for today for dubious reasons, so I think a flip from either of them can tell us more about the Drunkard.

 

Can you explain why this isn't ironic - saying TG/Rand have 'cleared' him for bad reasons when apparently clearing him for trolling to hard to be mafia? From what I recall TG was saying he wouldn't vote him D1, not that he was clear? Think Nyn had a good point around this conversation.

 

Do you think mafia generally takes their ball and goes home and trolls the thread openly? Maybe if you're Cory; but generally mafia tries their best to blend. Drunk is doing a poor job; NB even worse. It's part of why I'm trying to be patient with NB. Him not offering ANY reasoning is what others would call TWTBAWW -- "too wolfy to be a werewolf." Basically, they'll never win the game playing like that if they're scum. There's some WIFOM involved there of course, but as a general rule, it's less likely that scum is just brazenly trolling the thread.

 

I was getting those "genuinely not giving a damn" vibes from Drunk. With NB, he's a bit more... anxious.

 

 

Lol.  Anxious?  Really?  I'm anxious for what exactly?  You've seemed determined to fabricate any conversation into a chance to muddy the waters.  Hence my earlier vote.  One little vote on you. I use the calling all scummies to attract the scum.  Lenlo earns the prize.  I move off you.  A little discussion from the rest of the players and you drop a delayed OMGUS vote on me...without any reason listed.  Do you see the hypocrisy?  You over-reaction to votes is significant.  So yeah.  Welcome to my scum list.  A player's vote (action) usually speaks louder than some people's babble. 

[BFG]

Attempting to post from mobile as my internet just died, taking my quotes with it.

 

Shorthand response to recent stuff, unvote was due to Darthe, a. Pointing out the post that gave him his lean and b. Admitting trolling Csarmi, which were my 2 biggest problems with him. I'm still not certain how much attention he's paying to thé thread, since he unvoted us to revote us in the same post, but he's statedhe reads hydras seperately so could be due to that.

 

Most of my reads are conflicted at the moment.

 

Tommy has said a lot of stuff I agree with, his opinions have been fluid, but logical in a way I associate with his town game, although this is from observing games as I don't think we've been town town yet. Leaning town.

 

Rand, think the most telling point is that he's been engaged in thread, has looked at lots of people... Other stuff I have is probably a style issue. Biggest of these is his comment about his early votes leading to townies jumping on at end of day, to avoid random. My experience is that mafia are more likely to make this sort of generic response that misses the rules, hybrid hammer in this case. But could be townnot reading rules. think there was something on Vos/TG I wanted to ask him about as well, but can't remember what now. Null to town.

 

drunk seems out of step with the thread. Also a little too centred on self/defensive, responded To Tommy's question on NB by defending his vote on Lenlo, instead of questioning why NotBob would be willing to follow him on Darthe.

 

And phone's dying, so I'm going to post this and go.

 

I want to talk through more stuff with Csarmi before voting again, as my reads are conflicted.

[Tommyrod]

Lol.  Anxious?  Really?  I'm anxious for what exactly?  You've seemed determined to fabricate any conversation into a chance to muddy the waters.  Hence my earlier vote.  One little vote on you. I use the calling all scummies to attract the scum.  Lenlo earns the prize.  I move off you.  A little discussion from the rest of the players and you drop a delayed OMGUS vote on me...without any reason listed.  Do you see the hypocrisy?  You over-reaction to votes is significant.  So yeah.  Welcome to my scum list.  A player's vote (action) usually speaks louder than some people's babble.

 

?

 

This is where you follow up with an example.

 

But calling me a hypocrite is pretty funny considering this:

 

Any specifics to accompany vote?

 

 

 

I just spent 6 hours arguing with idiots on another site.

 

So if we can avoid arguing like idiots in this game, I'd appreciate that.

 

This isn't to anyone specific, just saying. Down with idiots.

 

Unvote, Vote Tommy

 

 

Just so we're clear, you're currently attacking me for not providing a reason for voting you (despite the implied POE), which is behavior you exhibited yourself. But the reason I find you suspicious in the first place isn't that you voted for me, it's the fact that you haven't provided justification for anything you've done before this moment. And unlike Drunk, who has this jovial air about his uselessness, you appear genuinely rustled by MY vote on you.

 

So trying to paint me as a hypocrite for the same behavior you've exhibited, while hypocritically demanding an explanation from me -- when I have spoken multiple times about my doubts of you -- is wolfy. If I was Darthe, I'd explain how it's projection. And something about math.

[Tommyrod]

BFG, let's catch up tomorrow. I haven't forgotten you, just haven't gotten around to it. Got caught up in another game that's at must-lynch and I die tonight, so I have to solve it for the village before I die and it's a real fustercluck.

[Tommyrod]

^ Not BFG, Mynd.

[Tyler Glembo]

@Rand - Regarding the not lynching a new player on D1, I stand by it (short of them posting their scum QT or something ridiculous).  New players should be given a fair chance to learn the culture and a D1 lynch on your first game isn't.  Drunk is fair game D2 as far as I'm concerned.  And given how out of sync he is with the thread, as BFG mentioned, he is on my scum list. 

 

As far as I knew this was DM mafia common courtesy and has been an unwritten rule for a long time.

[Tyler Glembo]

[unvote]

[v]Tommy[/v]

 

Tommy has made two slips that have convinced me he is scum.  The first is how he pivoted off of Mynd in order to vote me.  Scum love to keep themselves in unaccountable positions and that is exactly where he is by tagging along with Mynd while simultaneously stating that Mynd's case was a "4/10".  Second is his coaching of people.  When confronted, he has responded with things like "play this way and I'll accept you as more town" type statements.  That tact is a way to set himself up a) as a target of buddying by opening the interaction, thus gaining town feelings of confidence from other players and b) an arbiter of the direction the thread goes by limiting responses that are "acceptable" by other players.

 

Tommy's scum partner #1 is Clov based off earlier interactions.  Not sure who the other scum partner is yet.

[Tyler Glembo]

Other current scum reads/leans.  NB, Drunk, Nynlia, BFarmi

 

Going back to Null on Mynd.

 

Town leans: Rand after his rebuttals, Lenlo

 

Full on town-ons: Darthe, Vos

[RandA lThor]

 

I liked the tone of Rand's commentary in blue, it has a sharpness to it.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]NotBob[/v]

 

Does anyone think this guy is town? If so, please help me see it.

 

Any specifics to accompany vote?

 

 

 

 

What's up with the drunk guy? Different cultures, or scummy there?

Experience says he's trolling too hard to be scum. Having never played with him, I don't know for sure. He could just be the type to troll regardless of alignment. But both TG and Rand have declared him a bad vote for today for dubious reasons, so I think a flip from either of them can tell us more about the Drunkard.

 

Can you explain why this isn't ironic - saying TG/Rand have 'cleared' him for bad reasons when apparently clearing him for trolling to hard to be mafia? From what I recall TG was saying he wouldn't vote him D1, not that he was clear? Think Nyn had a good point around this conversation.

 

Do you think mafia generally takes their ball and goes home and trolls the thread openly? Maybe if you're Cory; but generally mafia tries their best to blend. Drunk is doing a poor job; NB even worse. It's part of why I'm trying to be patient with NB. Him not offering ANY reasoning is what others would call TWTBAWW -- "too wolfy to be a werewolf." Basically, they'll never win the game playing like that if they're scum. There's some WIFOM involved there of course, but as a general rule, it's less likely that scum is just brazenly trolling the thread.

 

I was getting those "genuinely not giving a damn" vibes from Drunk. With NB, he's a bit more... anxious.

 

 

Lol.  Anxious?  Really?  I'm anxious for what exactly?  You've seemed determined to fabricate any conversation into a chance to muddy the waters.  Hence my earlier vote.  One little vote on you. I use the calling all scummies to attract the scum.  Lenlo earns the prize.  I move off you.  A little discussion from the rest of the players and you drop a delayed OMGUS vote on me...without any reason listed.  Do you see the hypocrisy?  You over-reaction to votes is significant.  So yeah.  Welcome to my scum list.  A player's vote (action) usually speaks louder than some people's babble. 

 

This is town JC, I think.  But I do agree with Tommy's reasoning on you, you can't really talk about hypocrisy with having no reasons listed. :P

 

Attempting to post from mobile as my internet just died, taking my quotes with it.

 

Shorthand response to recent stuff, unvote was due to Darthe, a. Pointing out the post that gave him his lean and b. Admitting trolling Csarmi, which were my 2 biggest problems with him. I'm still not certain how much attention he's paying to thé thread, since he unvoted us to revote us in the same post, but he's statedhe reads hydras seperately so could be due to that.

 

Most of my reads are conflicted at the moment.

 

Tommy has said a lot of stuff I agree with, his opinions have been fluid, but logical in a way I associate with his town game, although this is from observing games as I don't think we've been town town yet. Leaning town.

 

Rand, think the most telling point is that he's been engaged in thread, has looked at lots of people... Other stuff I have is probably a style issue. Biggest of these is his comment about his early votes leading to townies jumping on at end of day, to avoid random. My experience is that mafia are more likely to make this sort of generic response that misses the rules, hybrid hammer in this case. But could be townnot reading rules. think there was something on Vos/TG I wanted to ask him about as well, but can't remember what now. Null to town.

 

drunk seems out of step with the thread. Also a little too centred on self/defensive, responded To Tommy's question on NB by defending his vote on Lenlo, instead of questioning why NotBob would be willing to follow him on Darthe.

 

And phone's dying, so I'm going to post this and go.

 

I want to talk through more stuff with Csarmi before voting again, as my reads are conflicted.

This is hybrid hammer? I could have sworn it was the normal hammer system. I must be getting mixed up with other game rules, I'm already signed up for four other mafia games right now.

 

@Rand - Regarding the not lynching a new player on D1, I stand by it (short of them posting their scum QT or something ridiculous).  New players should be given a fair chance to learn the culture and a D1 lynch on your first game isn't.  Drunk is fair game D2 as far as I'm concerned.  And given how out of sync he is with the thread, as BFG mentioned, he is on my scum list. 

 

As far as I knew this was DM mafia common courtesy and has been an unwritten rule for a long time.

Still don't agree. Maybe for players new to mafia, but first time DMer or not, he knows mafia, and he should know how to generally towntell.  If one of the JNers suddenly joined, I can almost guarantee we wouldn't give them this one day free pass rule.

[RandA lThor]

Other current scum reads/leans.  NB, Drunk, Nynlia, BFarmi

 

Going back to Null on Mynd.

 

Town leans: Rand after his rebuttals, Lenlo

 

Full on town-ons: Darthe, Vos

Wow its interesting to see how many of these I disagree with.  Red is disagree

 

NB - town lean, drunk - town lean or null, nynlia - null (surprised on the scum lean, they have barely had time to post, why the scum lean?), Mynd - strong town, lenlo - strong scum read, darthe - leaning town, vos - confused lol.  Recently its looking like leaning town, but before it was scum, so anywhere between weak town and weak scum read.  Can't figure out if she said some anomalous things early in the game or whether she's trying to act more town now.

[Tommyrod]

[unvote]

[v]Tommy[/v]

 

Tommy has made two slips that have convinced me he is scum.  The first is how he pivoted off of Mynd in order to vote me.  Scum love to keep themselves in unaccountable positions and that is exactly where he is by tagging along with Mynd while simultaneously stating that Mynd's case was a "4/10".  Second is his coaching of people.  When confronted, he has responded with things like "play this way and I'll accept you as more town" type statements.  That tact is a way to set himself up a) as a target of buddying by opening the interaction, thus gaining town feelings of confidence from other players and b) an arbiter of the direction the thread goes by limiting responses that are "acceptable" by other players.

 

Tommy's scum partner #1 is Clov based off earlier interactions.  Not sure who the other scum partner is yet.

 

?

 

Red: I never voted for ya. I've had you as possible scum for what I read as feigned emotion, but I haven't gone after it yet because:

 

A) You're a pretty sharp guy and would be an asset to town if you are town

B) I haven't yet utilized the emotional reading method I picked up from my friend and was hoping to get a flip or two to see how it works for me before condemning someone for it.

 

Blue: The way my last couple games have gone here, I made an active decision to be more level headed and analytical in my approach, hence my non-emotional pact. So while you are probably right I sound arbiter-y, it's decidedly not scummy -> I'm actively encouraging people to talk and give reads. You know, the same thing you did when you demanded people act serious?

 

Are you scum? This seems like it came out of nowhere, and the timing is interesting given the current discussion with NotBob.

[Tyler Glembo]

UNOFFICIAL VC

 

BFArmi-(1/7)-Darthe

Tommy-(2/7)-, NotBob, TG

TG-(1/7)-Mynd

RandA lThor-(1/7)-Lenlo 

Lenlo-(1/7)-Drunk Tank,

NotBob-(1/7)-Tommy

BFArmi-(1/7)-Vos

 

Not Voting(4/12)- Clov, Nynlia, RandA lThor, BFArmi

 

12 Alive, takes 7 to Lynch

 

Deadline-http://www.timeandda... of Day 1&csz=1

[Tyler Glembo]

Rand - Please edit quotes down?

[Hallia]

 

If you want to see his previous games, he's Jetscode1 on the JetNation mafia forum.

 

The only recent meta I have of him, in terms of what he's like as town and scum, isn't that useful cause he was SK in the game I played with him.  However, he does joke around like this, so the way he's playing isn't too out of the ordinary.

 

I don't get your Tommy vote though JC/NB, can you give me a solid reason?

 

Yes, he's scum.  Kinda like the opposite of a tumbleweed.

 

-.- Don't remind me.

 

@Rand - Regarding the not lynching a new player on D1, I stand by it (short of them posting their scum QT or something ridiculous).  New players should be given a fair chance to learn the culture and a D1 lynch on your first game isn't.  Drunk is fair game D2 as far as I'm concerned.  And given how out of sync he is with the thread, as BFG mentioned, he is on my scum list. 

 

As far as I knew this was DM mafia common courtesy and has been an unwritten rule for a long time.

 

So far as I knew, it's new players, like...new to mafia in general.  Drunkie has said he's not new to forum mafia, and as that I feel should be fair game, as TG says (<3 Drunkie I love you already! )

 

Tommy and Vos are my two top town reads atm.

[Tommyrod]

Tommy and Vos are my two top town reads atm.

At the risk of opening another Pandora's Darthe, may I ask what I have done to deserve such praise?

 

It's interesting, from an outside-the-game perspective, how polarizing I am so far. I'm not used to it on DM, usually everyone just clears me and we move on. Makes me think I'm on the right track with something.

 

There's an emerging adage on POG that I think has some merit: "the most correct villager tends to get lynched D1."