[Advanced] Blackhoof's Cthulhu Mythos Mafia Game- Day 1

[dawnflower8]

Ok, I'm bad at scumhunting. All my reads except Darthe have been wrong. Hey, at least I'm actually trying this game, unlike some others. I just doubt you and Red are scum together, since your posts do not seem like distancing. You both seem scummy, though. So that's why I think one is town, the other scum. I'm probably wrong and you're both town, and all the scum are going to be the players I never really read as anything other than null, or something.

[dawnflower8]

Dawn there are a number of reasons why I think you're scum this game, but just to be clear, this is what I'm referring to when I say "TMI slip":

 

 

I'm not going to hammer you, since you're town. I also thought this was not a hammer game.

 

 

TMI stands for Too Much Information, and the implication is that townies don't know at the start of the game who is town or who is scum, but scummers do, and occasionally forget that they're NOT supposed to know

 

The wording of your post doesn't seem to indicate any hesitance or confusion on your part regarding whether or not Wombat is town, you straight up say he's town. Wording is important in mafia games, and well I'm not sure what you can even do to explain yourself in this instance. If Wombat ends up being town, I will not waver for a second in declaring you lock scum. If he flips scum like I think he will, you still don't look good really, since you were hardcore defending a scummer (calling him the towniest person in the game). However, you wouldn't be lock scum, since townies can be wrong.

So it's a lose-lose situation, and I'm scum either way? (One way less than the other, I know, but still.) Sorry for not wanting to lynch people that I'm nearly positive are town. Apparently being pro-town is now scummy.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Dawn I for one really do appreciate the extra activity. Don't get too hung up about things, it takes a very long time to get wording right in mafia games and even then people will have their hang ups about the use of a specific word or the way things are worded. Your activity has been great and you have been putting effort and it's all anyone can ask really. You just have to start thinking of how others interpret what you say and more importantly the way you say it. For instance when you say someone is town it can come across quite assertively as it just recently did so it makes people wonder if you have information that we don't. So just bear that in mind and be a bit mindful of it. Otherwise keep up your play so far. To be honest I do suspect a bit of coaching going on which makes me wary and you do seem to be a bit guided this game, but time will tell if my suspicions are right or not. 

[dawnflower8]

And why would scum want to tell everyone who the townies are, anyway? Maybe they wanted to lose.

[dawnflower8]

Dawn I for one really do appreciate the extra activity. Don't get too hung up about things, it takes a very long time to get wording right in mafia games and even then people will have their hang ups about the use of a specific word or the way things are worded. Your activity has been great and you have been putting effort and it's all anyone can ask really. You just have to start thinking of how others interpret what you say and more importantly the way you say it. For instance when you say someone is town it can come across quite assertively as it just recently did so it makes people wonder if you have information that we don't. So just bear that in mind and be a bit mindful of it. Otherwise keep up your play so far. To be honest I do suspect a bit of coaching going on which makes me wary and you do seem to be a bit guided this game, but time will tell if my suspicions are right or not.

 

 

Who do you think is coaching me, then?

[ReleaseTheEvil]

I would have to reread but someone made a good case for it recently. 

[dawnflower8]

What I find kind of annoying is when I say something like I'm certain, people think "ooh, a scumslip," but when more advanced players do it, people give them no extra thought. Yes, I've seen people do it in other games I've played or read. And I've seen them be town.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

What I find kind of annoying is when I say something like I'm certain, people think "ooh, a scumslip," but when more advanced players do it, people give them no extra thought. Yes, I've seen people do it in other games I've played or read. And I've seen them be town.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha,

 

Oh Dawn, we can be good friends you and I.

 

This is called bias and people treating/tolerating things from people differently depending who they are. I really am waiting for the next alt game. Yes, mafia is very very strife with this problem IMO. It's my number 1 annoyance with this game. In the same vein why does my intro post look scummy but the identical two previous ones (which in fact may look even more scummy) were fine? I don't think it's fair to say because they posted 30 minutes before me. This is a part of the game, whether people like it or not. Need to accept this early on as it won't change anytime soon. 

[hazelkrs1]

Firstly Dawn, I agree completely with RTE. You're putting in a lot more effort this game which is appreciated. It's very frustrating for other players if you don't ever really get active enough for them to establish a read on you.

 

That being said...

 

Ok, I'm bad at scumhunting. All my reads except Darthe have been wrong. Hey, at least I'm actually trying this game, unlike some others. I just doubt you and Red are scum together, since your posts do not seem like distancing. You both seem scummy, though. So that's why I think one is town, the other scum. I'm probably wrong and you're both town, and all the scum are going to be the players I never really read as anything other than null, or something.

 

This post looks like you trying to play off that you're just bad, or newbish, or w/e, but not scum

 

(and incidentally you're still not explaining WHY you think either Red or me is scummy, just that we "seem scummy". If you're town and you want to be read as town, you have to let others see your thought processes. So don't just say someone "seems scummy", say WHY they seem scummy to you)

 

 

Dawn there are a number of reasons why I think you're scum this game, but just to be clear, this is what I'm referring to when I say "TMI slip":
 

I'm not going to hammer you, since you're town. I also thought this was not a hammer game.

 
TMI stands for Too Much Information, and the implication is that townies don't know at the start of the game who is town or who is scum, but scummers do, and occasionally forget that they're NOT supposed to know
 
The wording of your post doesn't seem to indicate any hesitance or confusion on your part regarding whether or not Wombat is town, you straight up say he's town. Wording is important in mafia games, and well I'm not sure what you can even do to explain yourself in this instance. If Wombat ends up being town, I will not waver for a second in declaring you lock scum. If he flips scum like I think he will, you still don't look good really, since you were hardcore defending a scummer (calling him the towniest person in the game). However, you wouldn't be lock scum, since townies can be wrong.

So it's a lose-lose situation, and I'm scum either way? (One way less than the other, I know, but still.) Sorry for not wanting to lynch people that I'm nearly positive are town. Apparently being pro-town is now scummy.

 

 

This post mainly looks like you being mad that you're caught, and incidentally the "apparently being pro-town is now scummy" both doesn't sound like something I could see you saying normally (ie coaching) and it's also completely misrepping the situation- I DON'T think what you're doing is protown, and you trying to act like you're being called scum for "protown behavior" is pretty scummy

 

And why would scum want to tell everyone who the townies are, anyway? Maybe they wanted to lose.

 

This post- I don't even know what to say to this post

 

 

Dawn I for one really do appreciate the extra activity. Don't get too hung up about things, it takes a very long time to get wording right in mafia games and even then people will have their hang ups about the use of a specific word or the way things are worded. Your activity has been great and you have been putting effort and it's all anyone can ask really. You just have to start thinking of how others interpret what you say and more importantly the way you say it. For instance when you say someone is town it can come across quite assertively as it just recently did so it makes people wonder if you have information that we don't. So just bear that in mind and be a bit mindful of it. Otherwise keep up your play so far. To be honest I do suspect a bit of coaching going on which makes me wary and you do seem to be a bit guided this game, but time will tell if my suspicions are right or not.
 

Who do you think is coaching me, then?

 

 

And this post- again Dawn, why are you so concerned with asking people who they think is coaching you, instead of making it clear that you are NOT being coached?

 

It's like you WANT people to automatically link you with other players, maybe so that if you flip scum those players will then look bad

 

After one good response to my post, you regressed to like 4 incredibly scummy posts in a row

 

[hazelkrs1]

 

What I find kind of annoying is when I say something like I'm certain, people think "ooh, a scumslip," but when more advanced players do it, people give them no extra thought. Yes, I've seen people do it in other games I've played or read. And I've seen them be town.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha,

 

Oh Dawn, we can be good friends you and I.

 

This is called bias and people treating/tolerating things from people differently depending who they are. I really am waiting for the next alt game. Yes, mafia is very very strife with this problem IMO. It's my number 1 annoyance with this game. In the same vein why does my intro post look scummy but the identical two previous ones (which in fact may look even more scummy) were fine? I don't think it's fair to say because they posted 30 minutes before me. This is a part of the game, whether people like it or not. Need to accept this early on as it won't change anytime soon. 

 

 

Eh, scumhunting is occasionally somewhat arbitrary. And Clout exists, whether or not it's a good thing, so some players get away with stuff when others don't.

 

I've seen newer players thrive tho and others wilt. So it's not completely just a "Good Ol Boys" club where lynches are completely determined by popularity, etc. If you come into this game with moxie and put in effort, you'll generally be rewarded. Those that put in more effort tend to reap the rewards that come with that. But no one is immune to the possibility of being mislynched as town, or being caught as scum.

[Blackhoof]

Vote Count

 

 

Des(4)- Red, Tsuki, Wombat, Hallia

Red(1)- Dawn

Wombat(7)- Pral, Nervo, Nyn, Clov, RTE, Des, mynd

 

 

 

Not voting (2)- Player, TGlems

 

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 to lynch

 

Deadline: 3AM 6 July EST

Countdown Timer: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140706T17&p0=1492&msg=End+of+Day+2&csz=1&swk=1

[Blackhoof]

Sorry about the lack of vc's guys

[WWWwombat]

Despo realized he can't legit case me so all of a sudden I'm an info lynch.  Also gives him a neat way to live another day when I flip town.  Despo's cases have been nothing but rhetoric.  He is scum.

[Red2111]

before i catch up on Despos latest fabrications and mis-reps i just want to say something

 

 

i dislike how Pral, Vos, Nyn & Clov have parked their votes on Womby and just split.

 

Colv and Nyn i can sorta forgive, they both at least gave a case on Womby.  Pral and Vos though, they straight up parked and split.  if you lot are town you need to get your assests back in here and make an informed decisions and tell us why, with all this new info since Mynd revealed his findings last night, you are leaving your vote on Womby instead of switch to blatantly obv scum.

 

TGI needs to get off the fence, and Dap needs to just straight up show up.  his disappearing act has NOT gone un-noticed.

[dawnflower8]

Just because he seems like a more likely lynch today:

 

[unvote]

[v]Despo[/v]

 

No, I am not voting you because you think I am scum.

[Red2111]

@ Despo - i want a straight answer.  are you anti-town or town.

 

 

Why do you think I'm scum?

 

because of your 180 on me dude.  you had me as near lock!town D1, now i'm near lock!scum in the space of a new york minute.  even worse the person you have a lock!town now (womby) has me as lock!town and you're still lock!scumming me.

 

not only did your vote come out of left field and wagon Despo; you ignored Mynd's list which we should be lynching off of and voted me.  so your vote also comes off as a "distraction attempt from the wagons"

 

 

and who was the lead wagon at the time .... DESPO.  

 

re-coaching:  when players start improving their game they always get the coached angle thrown at them until the establish their new meta as a non-newb.  if your not being coached then take it as a badge of pride to know your game is improving and keep at it.  if you are being coached, then dont be so obv next time.

 

 

 

 

 

Are you saying that giving out town reads makes me scum?

no he's saying that your town list is a transparent attempt at buddying and a desperate move

 

 

So I never like to get out town reads as town? That's what you're saying?

no he says you're more reluctant to clear people as town. *see the above for why*

 

 

Cause the correct answer is I'll give out town "reads" as town OR scum. As town they'll be legit unless I got something up my sleeve with one or two, and as scum they'll be designed to wifom/buddy.

which is EXACTLY what Womby was pointing out about your list.

 

TL;DR version of his points is

 

Despo is scum his lists should be ignored because they're nothing but WIFOM and its a legit headache to lead us around if you try drinking his wine.

 

 

So what about my post made it seem like I was trying to buddy, other than you just saying I was without trying to support that in any way?

all of the fence sitters on your town list and all of the people casing you or @ you on your scum list

 

 

 

 

 

Womby is right.  This is kinda splitting hairs.  He's still probably scum with Red, but not because of how he responded to my question.

 

I agree with Mynd here fwiw. Granted, it does seem slightly more significant since it ended up being about Wombat, who already seemed sketchy to me, but on it's own I don't think it's that big of a deal

 

so your tunneling back in on me being scum and back to linking me and womby together. ah good to see you stopped the attempted waffle and doubled down again.

 

 

 

 

 

Dawn legit obsessed with the "coaching" angle. Also seems preoccupied with asking who is coaching her, instead of just saying... she's not being coached.

 

Also her "Wombat the most town player in the game" was lololarious.

 

 

 

He hasn't said anything that seemed remotely scummy to me, I guess. I'm not quite sure why I read him as town; it's gut feeling I suppose. I really don't think we should lynch him, since we've already lost 3 townies.

Emphasized is puketastic fear mongering. We've lost three townies yes, this has no actual bearing on the day's events however. Dawn bringing it up just reeks reeks reeks.

 

I'm not going to hammer you, since you're town. I also thought this was not a hammer game.

Oh. My. God.

 

How are more people not hammering Dawn for this?

 

Tbh this has me tinfoiling that Wombat COULD be town (and either Mynd is lying or Dap is scum after all), and that Dawn is TMI slipping like crazy.

 

Seriously, how does she KNOW Wombat is town here?

 

 

 

distancing from a team mate or opportunistic Despo jumping on a scummy town for legit scum hunting apperance to gain town cred.

 

either way, legit points about dawn and worth a push on her imo

 

 

Updated reads list:

 

nervositee

Clovdyx

myndrunner

Pralaya

TGlems

Nyn

Dap

ReleaseTheEvil

 

Tsukibana

Red

Hallia

dawnflower

Wombat

welp so much for the "truce" now Despo is back to doubling down on me

 

 

 

Red, I declare a truce. I think its' possible you've been played by Wombat, and just had a bad game otherwise. I AM town btw, so if you are as well let's go ahead and catch actual scum, kk?

#thatdidntlastlong

[/spoiler

[dawnflower8]

Red, I am not going to read people as town just because someone I think is town reads you as town, sorry.

[Red2111]

@ Dawn - *shrugs*  just pointing out the hypocrisy.  the Womby seeing me as town but you pushing me as scum is not the main ping from you, its your sudden 180 on me.

 

 

part two in response to Despo coming up. 

[Clovdyx]

@ Wombat - i'd honeslty rather split the difference and just lynch him tbh

 

 

Womby's lynch has been bullet trained, scum are leading it imo.  both days a Despo lynch has stalled, scum lynches ALWAYS stall.

 

 

then you have his lockclearing Lenlo D1 after 1 post!   Len flipped scum!

 

 

then you have his push on Tommy, WHO FLIPPED TOWN.

 

 

even if you want to ignore my case on him and his case on me for fear of team distancing, for crying out loud you cannot ignore these points!  these are concrete inarguable facts in the game that are immune to WIFOM.

 

I hate this post.  The bold certainly applies to the second and third statements, but I don't believe there is any noticeable difference between a scumlynch or townlynch in likeliness to stall (except at LYLO, when scum is free to out themselves for the mislynch).  Using this game as an example, how long did it take to get Tom lynched?  And I wouldn't exactly call his behavior solid town play...

 

Beyond that, you're saying that Despot is lock scum because he pushed Tommy, who flipped town.  So did Darthe, and Darthe was NK'ed D1 - and flipped town.  You know who ELSE pushed Tommy?  You're 100% clear lock town (Wombat).

 

Next, he said Lenlo was lock town.  Okay, that was proven to be wrong.  Shame on Despot.  Still not inherently scummy, unless you think Despot ONLY would clear a teammate and would never be mistaken/trust somebody early in a game (in which case you would be wrong).

 

 

TL;DR - you have some really, really broken logic.  Pushes like that will continue to further my believe Despot is town.

[Clovdyx]

Despo, how many scum do you think there are?

 

Also, I do not "know" Wombat is town. I am just pretty sure of it. Just like I was pretty confident Darthe was town earlier. Also, if I was scum and trying to prove Wombat was town and he actually was town, what in the world would I gain out of that? Absolutely nothing, since that would be pro-town and preventing a lynch of a townie, which is the opposite of what the mafia's goals should be. Yeah, your read on me doesn't make much sense at all.

 

The problem with this is you're ignoring the fact that mafia is obligated to throw out correct town reads (unless they simply refuse to give any reads, or the person in questions ALWAYS lists everybody as scum regardless of how they're playing.*)  Typically, town is going to be about 75% of the game.  If you're mafia and your "town reads" consists of four people while your scumnulls are the remaining DOZEN at this stage in the game, people are going to realize something is off with you.

 

In this case scenario, let's say you ARE scum with either Des or Dap.  You jump up and down proclaiming Wombat as town.  He gets lynched, flips town, you immediately get to point fingers and start pushing anybody who voted for him as well as pushing the other two candidates from Mynd's results.  Between the mislynch, the nightkill, and the following nightkill, you have made three townie deaths for giving up ONE teammate - and that's assuming the scummate gets lynched the following day, and not another townie.  (E.g., townie Wombat, NK, townie Des, NK, bus teammate Dap, NK).

[Clovdyx]

I'm going to use bold red font to reply in text to some of this.  Again, bold red is MY reply.

 

 

@ Despo - i want a straight answer.  are you anti-town or town.
 
 

Why do you think I'm scum?

 
because of your 180 on me dude.  you had me as near lock!town D1, now i'm near lock!scum in the space of a new york minute.  even worse the person you have a lock!town now (womby) has me as lock!town and you're still lock!scumming me.
 

Let's say that Wombat IS town.  That means NOTHING whatsoever towards your alignment.  He's already stated he's not the cop, and while he would clearly believe you to be town (hence gifting you), that believe does not prevent him from being wrong and I think it's scummy that you're omitting that possibility.  There is literally no logical argument for "I am town, I think this person is town, therefore I must accept all of their reads".

not only did your vote come out of left field and wagon Despo; you ignored Mynd's list which we should be lynching off of and voted me.  so your vote also comes off as a "distraction attempt from the wagons"
 
 
and who was the lead wagon at the time .... DESPO.  
 
re-coaching:  when players start improving their game they always get the coached angle thrown at them until the establish their new meta as a non-newb.  if your not being coached then take it as a badge of pride to know your game is improving and keep at it.  if you are being coached, then dont be so obv next time.
 
 
 
 
 

Are you saying that giving out town reads makes me scum?

no he's saying that your town list is a transparent attempt at buddying and a desperate move

 

So I never like to get out town reads as town? That's what you're saying?

no he says you're more reluctant to clear people as town. *see the above for why*

 

When has Despot EVER been reluctant to clear people as town?  Do you know an entirely different Despot from me?  I mean, I can go pull lists from previous games if you want but I guarantee your claim won't hold water.

 

Cause the correct answer is I'll give out town "reads" as town OR scum. As town they'll be legit unless I got something up my sleeve with one or two, and as scum they'll be designed to wifom/buddy.

which is EXACTLY what Womby was pointing out about your list.

TL;DR version of his points is

Despo is scum his lists should be ignored because they're nothing but WIFOM and its a legit headache to lead us around if you try drinking his wine.

^

Remember this statement for later.

 

So what about my post made it seem like I was trying to buddy, other than you just saying I was without trying to support that in any way?

all of the fence sitters on your town list and all of the people casing you or @ you on your scum list

 

 

 

Womby is right.  This is kinda splitting hairs.  He's still probably scum with Red, but not because of how he responded to my question.

 
I agree with Mynd here fwiw. Granted, it does seem slightly more significant since it ended up being about Wombat, who already seemed sketchy to me, but on it's own I don't think it's that big of a deal

 

so your tunneling back in on me being scum and back to linking me and womby together. ah good to see you stopped the attempted waffle and doubled down again.

 

Dawn legit obsessed with the "coaching" angle. Also seems preoccupied with asking who is coaching her, instead of just saying... she's not being coached.
 
Also her "Wombat the most town player in the game" was lololarious.
 

 

He hasn't said anything that seemed remotely scummy to me, I guess. I'm not quite sure why I read him as town; it's gut feeling I suppose. I really don't think we should lynch him, since we've already lost 3 townies.

Emphasized is puketastic fear mongering. We've lost three townies yes, this has no actual bearing on the day's events however. Dawn bringing it up just reeks reeks reeks.

I'm not going to hammer you, since you're town. I also thought this was not a hammer game.

Oh. My. God.

How are more people not hammering Dawn for this?

Tbh this has me tinfoiling that Wombat COULD be town (and either Mynd is lying or Dap is scum after all), and that Dawn is TMI slipping like crazy.

Seriously, how does she KNOW Wombat is town here?

 

distancing from a team mate or opportunistic Despo jumping on a scummy town for legit scum hunting apperance to gain town cred.

either way, legit points about dawn and worth a push on her imo

 

So you absolutely are 100% he's obivous lockscum and yet you find yourself agreeing with his points.  It could be that he's scum and is intent on bringing the whole damn ship down with him, but why in the world would you ever say "This guy is scum and is pushing <whoever>, and he's making a GREAT case so we should definitely push <the candidate>"?

 

Going back to earlier, remember when we should ignore Despot's reads?  Might as well ignore the fact he ever cased Dawn and his reasoning.  Except we shouldn't, we should push her anyway.  Fascinating.

 

Updated reads list:
 
nervositee
Clovdyx
myndrunner
Pralaya
TGlems
Nyn
Dap
ReleaseTheEvil
 
Tsukibana
Red
Hallia
dawnflower
Wombat

welp so much for the "truce" now Despo is back to doubling down on me

Red, I declare a truce. I think its' possible you've been played by Wombat, and just had a bad game otherwise. I AM town btw, so if you are as well let's go ahead and catch actual scum, kk?

#thatdidntlastlong
[/spoiler

 

[Nynaeve]

i dislike how Pral, Vos, Nyn & Clov have parked their votes on Womby and just split.

 

Colv and Nyn i can sorta forgive, they both at least gave a case on Womby.  Pral and Vos though, they straight up parked and split.  if you lot are town you need to get your assests back in here and make an informed decisions and tell us why, with all this new info since Mynd revealed his findings last night, you are leaving your vote on Womby instead of switch to blatantly obv scu

 

You do realize there are also two players who aren't voting at all and one player who was voting outside of Des/Wombat at the time of this post? According to your logic, that's legit but people voting for Wombat isn't? Noted  lol

 

 

I have made an informed decision in regards to Wombat. I've seen no reason to change my vote on him. I'm afraid that you declaring him as locktown just isn't gonna cut it.:P    And if Mynd is legit and he's got scum in the pool of: Wombat, Des and Dap, then it only reinforces my opinion of Wombat, because he's the scummiest of the three, IMO.

[dawnflower8]

I do not read everyone as scum.

 

Also, why do you think I might be scum with Dap? I've barely even talked about him in this game.

[Clovdyx]

I do not read everyone as scum.

 

Also, why do you think I might be scum with Dap? I've barely even talked about him in this game.

 

I wasn't insinuating you do.  I was showing that doing so, regardless of alignment, provides cover from actually listing townies when you're scum.

 

I never said that I think that.  I was providing a scenario to illustrate my point of why scum has incentive to truthfully clear players as town.  You can just as easily swap Despot's name for Dap's if you prefer. 

[Clovdyx]

Can I get somebody to [v]Unvote[/v] Wombat with me?

 

I still think he's the most likely scum (and intend to move back), but I don't want him hanging around L-1 until Dap checks in.  He cased Despot right before deadline, then disappeared and hasn't said anything during this phase.  I think it would be a mistake to not hear from him.