2014 NFL Draft

[Red2111]

@ Sut - the only thing Gregg Williams is good at is putting Boutny's on players heads.  i can't believe the NFL reinstated that SOB.

 

*mutters under her breath*

 

but i digress

[Clovdyx]

I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know if this has been covered, but in regards to Sam's fall...look at his combine.  He ran a 4.91 40 yard dash, which was 22nd among DE's.  7.80 on the 3-cone drill, which was dead last among competitors. For comparison's sake, Kony Ealy - who was one of the few players to run a slower 40 than Sam - led all DE's with a 6.83 cone drill.  25.50 inch vertical jump was the lowest among ends, and his broad jump was slightly below average.  Only one guy threw up fewer reps on bench press.

 

Long story short, he absolutely BOMBED the combine.  It's not too inaccurate to label him the worst DE prospect among all competitor's at the combine.  I don't know how he was in interviews (or his Pro Day) but at least part of his drop was justified.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/8/20/4639276/2014-nfl-draft-defensive-end-rankings - not in the top 23 DE prospects

http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2014-Page-2.asp - ranked 191 overall

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2014/DE - 15th DE, 169 overall

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=96267&draftyear=2014&genpos=DE - projected as a fifth rounder

[Turin Turambar]

My take on Sam and his spot taken in the draft and the combine is that the numbers are all nice but the NFL continuously talks about "character guys" and how important they are to the team. For All reports he is a strong locker room guy. as well as being the DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR in what is considered by some as the best conference in College Football.

 

As the league people will say "the tape doesn't lie." If you show me two guys, one that ran fast and did the drills well at the combine and another who went out and produced on the field every Saturday I am taking the latter every single time. 

 

The Rams got Quality depth at a very valuable position. You can never have too many guys that can rush the QB. If one of the other studs goes down they have backup, otherwise they can enact a rotation that will allow all of them to go harder knowing that they can get a breather here or there.

[Clovdyx]

My take on Sam and his spot taken in the draft and the combine is that the numbers are all nice but the NFL continuously talks about "character guys" and how important they are to the team. For All reports he is a strong locker room guy. as well as being the DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR in what is considered by some as the best conference in College Football.

 

As the league people will say "the tape doesn't lie." If you show me two guys, one that ran fast and did the drills well at the combine and another who went out and produced on the field every Saturday I am taking the latter every single time. 

 

The Rams got Quality depth at a very valuable position. You can never have too many guys that can rush the QB. If one of the other studs goes down they have backup, otherwise they can enact a rotation that will allow all of them to go harder knowing that they can get a breather here or there.

 

The issue I take with drafting a guy based on being awards is...it really doesn't mean anything.  Of the ten past Heisman winners (not including Manziel or Winston), not many turned into productive players, and even fewer were worth their draft pick.  Carson Palmer was great until injury, and Cam Newton is developing.  After that, you have Jason White, Matt Leinart, Reggie Bush, Troy Smith, Tim Tebow, Sam Bradford, Mark Ingram, and RG3.  And that's not a conference player of the year award - that's the BEST player in college football.

 

The same argument can be applied to really any award.  Enough players have won conference players of the year (even in the SEC) and failed to transition to the NFL. I'll admit it's strange Sam's seemingly not even getting a chance (7th round rookie, on a team with two All-Pro's at his position?), but I think if teams had high hopes for him he would have gone a lot sooner. 

[Turin Turambar]

I will give you the argument about Heisman winners because they tend to be a lot of system QBs that put up stupid numbers against poor opposition. but I would argue that Bradford hasn't been all bad, Bush was playing well in Detroit when not hurt. RG3 has also played decent considering his supporting cast and injury situation. I wouldn't have taken white, or smith myself. 

 

DL/olb /pash rush specialist is another animal. I would say a third or more of the tackles they are rushing against in the SEC are gonna play in the league as backups or be moved to guard. TG posted a list of the past ten SEC DPOY's and their draft positions and their performance to date. I say the company there is pretty good. 

 

My opinion is he definitely should have been drafted and probably before the 7th round. So for the Rams to take him when they did is shrewd draft board strategy.The PR boost is a bonus.

[Andrej]

What amazes me about the Cowboys is how well their leadership knows PR.  They haven't been good (championship contending good) for a long, long time, but their fan base is still as strong as ever.  In fact, it might have even grown.  Marketing genius.

 

DId either of you ever read the "boys will be boys" book about the 90's cowboys?  It was def an interesting read.

 

I spotted the book at B&N not too long ago and thumbed through it a bit but didn't buy it. From what I got it basically just bashes on the stars of the team at the time for being egotistical

 

The Cowboys are almost a brand name, so to speak. It's similar with a lot of the other old school teams in the NFL: Pittsburgh, Green Bay, etc. They all have rich history and have been around for decades so their fan base is similarly HUGE.

 

 

 

 

I think you are making a lot of assumptions. You weren't in the Rams war room when they decided to pick Sam - you don't know their motive. Obviously yes, there is going to be some publicity surrounding him because of how he came out to the media prior to the draft. I will say that I think that likely hurt his image towards some teams, not because he is gay, but because of the distraction he could potentially present in locker rooms when news networks all want to cover the first openly gay player in the NFL. To say the Rams ONLY picked him in order to get their name in the media is pretty out there. 

 

The NFL is a business and revolves around winning. Sam is a legitimate pass rusher type that I think fits pretty well in the 4-3 set that the Rams run, he is listed on their roster as a DE as well. I think he'll be playing on the weakside and likely sharing snaps in passing situations. Look here . 

 

They already have a beast at both DE positions in Robert Quinn and Chris Long. Sam adds further depth and another pass rushing threat on the outside.

 

Also, to address your point about picking WRs in the draft, if you look at the roster provided by ESPN.com you'll see that the Rams have added 3 new WRs to the their team from free agency with Emory Blake, Kenny Britt, and T.J. Moe - I'm sure their head office had a plan going into next season and recognized the need they had at WR, so instead of using a pick in the draft to choose a potential late round bust, they chose a solid player who will likely be a contributor from day one and opted to bring in some league vets to help out in their position of need.

 

Sam wasn't just a good pick at where they got him in the 7th round, he was a STEAL.

 

i'm glad the Rams are pircking up WR's, but with Sam were going to have to agree to disagree here then 

 

i'm looking at things differently than you, and from a stats point only surrounding him, the pick was not meant to boost the Rams chances of winning; it was targetted towards getting their name in the news for making a Historical pick and to boost sales of merchandise and ticket sales.  and i dont condone a team using a person like that, its disgusting and belittles Sam imo, because comming out in his situation was a very brave thing to do.

 

infact, looking at the stats surrounding Sam, the only way he should make the Rams is on Special Teams and even if that.  he's not starting material and hes no where near as good as the DL that the Rams already have.  he's not good for man-man coervage, he's not fast enough to keep up with most pro RB's and he's not agile enough to switch tracks on coverage; even his strength is average.  his best abilities are not abilities, but his personality, the fact he gives 110% on the field and his tenacity on pressure.

 

Yet because his pick was PR based, Sam will make the team, will bench sit most of the time, will be signed to a 1 year deal, then cut/traded after that year when the media has moved onto something shiny and new.

 

which is why i'm glad the kid is pouncing on the endorsement deals that are flying his way now, to cash in while he's still a hot comodity.

 

Where are you getting these stats? I couldn't disagree with you more on the point that the Rams picking him doesn't help to improve their team - I think the numbers Sam put up in college are enough to more than suggest that he will be a contributor.

 

I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know if this has been covered, but in regards to Sam's fall...look at his combine.  He ran a 4.91 40 yard dash, which was 22nd among DE's.  7.80 on the 3-cone drill, which was dead last among competitors. For comparison's sake, Kony Ealy - who was one of the few players to run a slower 40 than Sam - led all DE's with a 6.83 cone drill.  25.50 inch vertical jump was the lowest among ends, and his broad jump was slightly below average.  Only one guy threw up fewer reps on bench press.

 

Long story short, he absolutely BOMBED the combine.  It's not too inaccurate to label him the worst DE prospect among all competitor's at the combine.  I don't know how he was in interviews (or his Pro Day) but at least part of his drop was justified.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/8/20/4639276/2014-nfl-draft-defensive-end-rankings - not in the top 23 DE prospects

http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2014-Page-2.asp - ranked 191 overall

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2014/DE - 15th DE, 169 overall

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=96267&draftyear=2014&genpos=DE - projected as a fifth rounder

 

I agree that he performed terribly at the combine and that it played in hurting his draft stock, probably more significantly than the publicity.

 

My take on Sam and his spot taken in the draft and the combine is that the numbers are all nice but the NFL continuously talks about "character guys" and how important they are to the team. For All reports he is a strong locker room guy. as well as being the DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR in what is considered by some as the best conference in College Football.

 

As the league people will say "the tape doesn't lie." If you show me two guys, one that ran fast and did the drills well at the combine and another who went out and produced on the field every Saturday I am taking the latter every single time. 

 

The Rams got Quality depth at a very valuable position. You can never have too many guys that can rush the QB. If one of the other studs goes down they have backup, otherwise they can enact a rotation that will allow all of them to go harder knowing that they can get a breather here or there.

 

I couldn't agree more with just about everything you said here. I think Sam averaged about 2-3 sacks per game in the SEC - those kind of numbers don't lie. I don't care how fast he ran some drills in the overly pressurized media circus that the combine has become.

 

I will give you the argument about Heisman winners because they tend to be a lot of system QBs that put up stupid numbers against poor opposition. but I would argue that Bradford hasn't been all bad, Bush was playing well in Detroit when not hurt. RG3 has also played decent considering his supporting cast and injury situation. I wouldn't have taken white, or smith myself. 

 

DL/olb /pash rush specialist is another animal. I would say a third or more of the tackles they are rushing against in the SEC are gonna play in the league as backups or be moved to guard. TG posted a list of the past ten SEC DPOY's and their draft positions and their performance to date. I say the company there is pretty good. 

 

My opinion is he definitely should have been drafted and probably before the 7th round. So for the Rams to take him when they did is shrewd draft board strategy.The PR boost is a bonus.

 

I agree with most of this too, the last point about the Rams being wise to select him when they did especially. Combine numbers aside, the Rams are in a perfect position to seriously develop a back-up edge rush threat. He can play behind Quinn/Long to learn the game, rotate in for experience, and also doesn't have to deal with the pressure necessarily of being a week-to-week starter. He can really focus on transitioning to the NFL and getting his strength/conditioning where it needs to be. The NFL probably has some of the best trainers in the world, they'll get this dude in shape.

[Clovdyx]

 

I couldn't agree more with just about everything you said here. I think Sam averaged about 2-3 sacks per game in the SEC - those kind of numbers don't lie. I don't care how fast he ran some drills in the overly pressurized media circus that the combine has become

 

 

Not even close. Sam is credited with 18.5 sacks - in his career.  I'll give you that 11.5 were last year, but that's still less than one per game.  Several other players are comparable, and while there are some hits, there are certainly several misses. 

[Andrej]

 

I couldn't agree more with just about everything you said here. I think Sam averaged about 2-3 sacks per game in the SEC - those kind of numbers don't lie. I don't care how fast he ran some drills in the overly pressurized media circus that the combine has become

 

Not even close. Sam is credited with 18.5 sacks - in his career.  I'll give you that 11.5 were last year, but that's still less than one per game.  Several other players are comparable, and while there are some hits, there are certainly several misses. 

 

Oh - wow, you're right. I had to go back and check that myself. I wonder where the mix-up came... maybe he had several 2-3 sack games?? I think that's probably it.

[Suttree]

The issue I take with drafting a guy based on being awards is...it really doesn't mean anything. 

 

Neither do combine numbers if they haven't produced on the field. Just ask the Raiders about that one...

[Red2111]

I will give you the argument about Heisman winners because they tend to be a lot of system QBs that put up stupid numbers against poor opposition. but I would argue that Bradford hasn't been all bad, Bush was playing well in Detroit when not hurt. RG3 has also played decent considering his supporting cast and injury situation. I wouldn't have taken white, or smith myself. 

 

 

 

saying that Bush and RG3 are playing well on their respective teams is like saying they're the least smelly turd in a big pile of dog poo.   neither the Skins nor the Lions (or even Miami when Bush was there) are teams with much talent or ability to win a playoff game.

 

the lions are justa  big ball of SUCK; and the skins need to change their owner before the team will perform more than sub par.

 

put them on teams that actually perform well with mutliple good players (like Bush on the Saints for instance) and they dont make the snuff.

 

 

 

 

 

Where are you getting these stats? I couldn't disagree with you more on the point that the Rams picking him doesn't help to improve their team - I think the numbers Sam put up in college are enough to more than suggest that he will be a contributor.

 

 

 

look at his combine stats.  his bench was dismal, his 3 cone drill was horrible.

 

 

and as for his college stats, all of those great stats happened in his LAST year of playing ball.   he was red-shirted as a freshment, which means he played ball from 2009 - 2013.  in 4 (possibly 5) years of his college career he only performed above average in 1, in his senior year.

 

thats only a 25% rate of success.  not very reliable and not what i would call an all star and he has yet to show that he can perfom consecutivly good years.

 

 

and speaking of the SEC, his division was the Eastern part of the SEC (which is the kiddy pool of the SEC).  and in his good year last year, the only one of the big three that he played against was Auburn (not even Bama or LSU, Auburn, which is the bottom of the top 3; sorry Dar but its the truth) and they LOST that game, got smacked 59-42 at home.

[Daruya]

Red, you do remember that Auburn, and not Bama, went to the Championship game this past year right?  

[Red2111]

sun shines on a tigers rump every once in a while  *grins*

[Suttree]

Pshhh SEC isn't even the best conference top to bottom these days. That title goes to the Pac-12.

[Daruya]

Pshhh SEC isn't even the best conference top to bottom these days. That title goes to the Pac-12.

 

Blasphemy!  SEC West is where it's at! 

[Tyler Glembo]