[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

hazelkrs1 · April 27, 2014

Enjoy my sloppy seconds

You say that like I wouldn't do highly inappropriate things for your sloppy seconds

:ohmy:

Cory Caboose · April 27, 2014

Here's a freebie: I think Red is fake claiming. She's spending more time defending than attacking. I remember her always adopting the "best defense is a good offense", and I'm not seeing it on display here.

I don't like this post from Verb.

My little sheet has about 70 different FOSes coming from Red this game - not only has she spent most of the game up to this point attacking, she's been attacking nearly everyone.

Don't see how she's "spending more time defending"

Cory Caboose · April 27, 2014

Des :wub:

Lenlo :wub:

Cory Caboose · April 27, 2014

Another: Tom & Cory should get a room.

I'm about two posts away from declaring "Tommy and Cory are working together too obviously" as a scummy narrative and crushing skulls for it.

It's called towning, get used to it.

Cory Caboose · April 27, 2014

I like Verbal doe

I just think he's <rand to be Mafia this game

dicetosser1 · April 27, 2014

@ des those were my thoughts on the fly during a 70 page catch up.

you want unambiguous? for once i truly think you are town.....must be wombats influence....

Nolder · April 27, 2014

Here's a freebie: I think Red is fake claiming. She's spending more time defending than attacking. I remember her always adopting the "best defense is a good offense", and I'm not seeing it on display here.

I don't like this post from Verb.

My little sheet has about 70 different FOSes coming from Red this game - not only has she spent most of the game up to this point attacking, she's been attacking nearly everyone.

Don't see how she's "spending more time defending"

Verbal is right. FOSing isn't an offense for Red.

Offense would be making cases and prodding people, she's known to vote and unvote several times in the span of a page.

What Red did was angry bargaining. She kept trying to convince people she was what she said she was even while she was trying to beat them over the head with it. I don't recall off the top of my head but was she under an extreme amount of pressure when she claimed? I'm used to Red claiming around L-2 or 1. IIRC she wasn't that close to being lynched when she claimed. Her excuse was that she didn't want to waste time debating about it right? I think she claimed early because it was fake.

Cory Caboose · April 27, 2014

ALRIGHT, 50 PAGE BREAKDOWN

HERE'S SOME GOAT READS:

Desbat

Tommy

Yates

Feels like an #Alliance game. Yates has conviction, Wombat has been looking in the correct directions and I can follow Tommy and Des both logically and emotively. This has promise.

Red

Nyankat (Nyn/Kat)

X

Dice

Jack

Can follow these players, regardless of how correct they are. No startling contradictions, from the players I have seen a few times (Jack/Dice) usual logical mindset, playing loosely. Red's been a severe detractor to the overall town agenda but there's always time to turn it around.

Lenlo

Halleeloujah (Leelou/Hally)

Zanube

MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud)

Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina)

Lenlo has been very inconsistent in his reads but has come to some decent conclusions throughout the game. Not an easy read for me as I've never seen his scum game. Hallee/Leelou not a projectable lynch for the near future but has had some inconsistencies as well. Zanube probably the "true null" point - need to see activity and soon. Been having difficulty following Verb and Amega in particular.

Dawn

Mynd

Nolbat
Krak

Dawn, Mynd all already explained. Nolder has hedged his bets all throughout the phase and most meta argumentation comes from people I believe are town. Has just not made sense in my head, content:post ratio low, etc.

Krak has just done some overwhelmingly scummy things. Des pointed out his snap L-1 vote on Red post-Red's claim. I have some other notes jotted down on Day 1, but he's a good place to look Day 2.

Cory Caboose · April 27, 2014

People I am pretty confident are town, wouldn't lynch soon:

2. Desbat (Wombat/Des)

6. Crayjay (Cory/Andrej)

12. Halleeloujah (Leelou/Hally)

16. Nyankat (Nyn/Kat)

19. Yates

People that are >rand to be town:

4. Krak

5. MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud)

8. X

People I haven't cleared:

3. Nolbat

7. Lenlo

9. Dawn

10. Jack

11. Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina)

13. Dice

14. Zanube

15. Red

17. Mynd

So I suggest we start by trying to clear people at the bottom of this list and then lynch from the rest. Cory, suggestions for people to be moved to the middle category?

Top Tier List: Cory Edition

People I am pretty confident are town, wouldn't lynch soon:

2. Desbat (Wombat/Des)

6. Crayjay (Cory/Andrej)

12. Halleeloujah (Leelou/Hally)

16. Nyankat (Nyn/Kat)

19. Yates

People that are >rand to be town:

4. Krak

5. MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud)

8. X

10. Jack

15. Red

People I haven't cleared:

3. Nolbat

7. Lenlo

9. Dawn

11. Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina)

13. Dice

14. Zanube

17. Mynd

Here we go. Ballin'

Nolbat - 5.2027244573 - SCUM

Mynd - 5.2027244573 - SCUM

Krak - 4.5402098357 - SCUM

Dawn - 4.5402098357 - SCUM

Verbalina - 3.7874282333 - SCUM LEAN

Dice - 3.6426625406 - SCUM LEAN

Lenlo - 3.5013044129 - SCUM LEAN

Halleeloujah - 3.5013044129 - SCUM LEAN

Zanube - 2.9801479189 - MIXED

Jack - 2.8387897912 - MIXED

MegaLoud - 2.3176332973 - TOWN LEAN

Nyankat - 2.3176332973 - TOWN LEAN

Red - 1.3332265865 - TOWN

Tommy - 1.3332265865 - TOWN

X - 1.0471027661 - TOWN

Crayjay - 0.9568357854 - TOWN

Yates - 0.9568357854 - TOWN

ALRIGHT, 50 PAGE BREAKDOWN

HERE'S SOME GOAT READS:

Desbat

Tommy

Yates

Feels like an #Alliance game. Yates has conviction, Wombat has been looking in the correct directions and I can follow Tommy and Des both logically and emotively. This has promise.

Red

Nyankat (Nyn/Kat)

X

Dice

Jack

Can follow these players, regardless of how correct they are. No startling contradictions, from the players I have seen a few times (Jack/Dice) usual logical mindset, playing loosely. Red's been a severe detractor to the overall town agenda but there's always time to turn it around.

Lenlo

Halleeloujah (Leelou/Hally)

Zanube

MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud)

Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina)

Lenlo has been very inconsistent in his reads but has come to some decent conclusions throughout the game. Not an easy read for me as I've never seen his scum game. Hallee/Leelou not a projectable lynch for the near future but has had some inconsistencies as well. Zanube probably the "true null" point - need to see activity and soon. Been having difficulty following Verb and Amega in particular.

Dawn

Mynd

Nolbat

Krak

Dawn, Mynd all already explained. Nolder has hedged his bets all throughout the phase and most meta argumentation comes from people I believe are town. Has just not made sense in my head, content:post ratio low, etc.

Krak has just done some overwhelmingly scummy things. Des pointed out his snap L-1 vote on Red post-Red's claim. I have some other notes jotted down on Day 1, but he's a good place to look Day 2.

VILLAGING

FOR

GENIUSES

Nolder · April 27, 2014

Perhaps I can help, was there anything in particular I've said that doesn't make sense to you?

We can go over it again if you want.

Cory Caboose · April 27, 2014

I will have more to talk about tomorrow but I need to sleep

One reason I have you in that tier is that you have fourth highest posts in the thread yet I have two things listen in my "game stances" spreadsheet

nolder

doesn't care about joke votes

supports AJ @ Red

after 50 pages

Some of that is simple POE that you haven't really had much of an opinion of anything this game (I remember you hedging during the Mish lynch somewhat, but I will need to reread the rest more analytically before I have better questions), and I'm pretty sure we had town-town wagons Day 1 and remember you being sort of a contrarian as town in the last game I played with you.

But high post count and low content is always a major flag for me.

This is not set in stone - I am happy to interact with you about my feelings but at this point this is pretty from-the-hip and I can't elaborate further until I finish up my reread.

Nolder · April 27, 2014

That's fair. I haven't disagreed with anyone who has pointed out that I've been standoffish and I'm not going to start now.

I don't know how long "it's a big game" will be an acceptable answer, if it ever was, but it's still the only one I have to give.

I am hoping that with at least a couple people dead and gone by tomorrow I wont have as much trouble posting more game related content.

_CLOUD · April 27, 2014

I find it both amusing and disturbing that playing how I normally play aka being on my meta is being characterized by some as hiding behind it.

That's kind of a dumb notion don't you think?

The problem with your play in this game has been that during a couple of times when you have been forced to make a decision you chose to take the easy way out and act in a manner that wasn't allignment indicative for you like voting for Mistress just because they decided to self-vote. It sounded more like a policy vote than anything else. It's difficult to figure out your allignment if you act like this and this is what we mean when we say that you have been hiding behind your meta.

Yeah, roles don't really help us decide who is town and who is scum. /sarcasam

Her character claim shouldn’t have anything to do with her flipping town. You trying to prove to everyone that you have been right all along about this by using their flip is gross.

@Despo, how about your casing of the now SIX hydras left?

And again with the pushes for the Hydra’s…

Megaloud, why Tommy? I can't seem to find the post where you voted him.

That was an old vote from Amega. I moved our vote back to Red again when I came back online.

Nolder mentioned how bigger games are harder to navigate in the beginning stages and I know what he means. I end up focusing on 20% of the game the most and there's 20% I don't see at all. Happens every time I play in a game larger than 13/14. I think I prefer smaller games too.

Still killing Nolder though, obviously.

I also prefer smaller games. I tend to just start skimming in a game of this size.

... wh... why would you say this Cloud?

You have a problem with people pointing out something that looks odd?

I don’t have a problem with people pointing a thing out, but when people spend two pages talking about how weird one vote looked I can’t help but start thinking that they are just doing it so they can be seen as agreeing with each other.

And this was ewwwww as well. There had been a lot of talk about CFD'ing on Mynd, and yet you just say you "could also go" for him. Gross.

I have made it clear during the previous Day that I have found both Red and Mynd scummy but that my preference lies with Red.

Finally tone. Tone? Seriously? Its a text post, so tone is much more difficult to get an accurate read of. You can call it fake to try and discredit it all you want but it only makes me think less and less of you.

Getting a read on people by reading the tone and feel behind their posts is actually a good scumhunting tool and a lot of people depend on it.

Oh that ellipse is diiiirrrrrttttty

Scummy nudge too imo.

was just coming back to say that was a stuff up lol. Im still catching up, read something cory said about my vote still being on and realized i never voted. totally forgot it was night lol

....ooops??? :huh:

Welcome to the Lock Clear Club.

Nolder · April 27, 2014

I understand what you're saying but at the same, what is it you want me to do?

Let's take the actual situation of Mish/Tress self voting.

I explained why I believe self voting is a scum move and always deserving of a policy vote.

Knowing that I believe that what am I supposed to do in that situation other than vote her/them?

This is a perfect example of why I find this sort of characterization disturbing and don't trust the people who are making them.

There are legitimate concerns about my gameplay such as when Leelou pointed out I was being standoffish and that others have echoed. Hell I'll give everyone a freebie that no one has brought up yet and point out that I went from voting scum read to policy vote to lulz. If I was looking at someone else do that I'd be highly disturbed.

But instead of bringing that up you want to attack me for being on my meta? It's ridiculous.

_CLOUD · April 27, 2014

I went from voting scum read to policy vote to lulz. If I was looking at someone else do that I'd be highly disturbed.

Then why are you so surprised that people are calling you out for your policy vote? If you are town I expect you to explain to everyone what your reads are and act on those when needed instead of hiding behind a convenient excuse like a policy vote that doesn't tell us nearly anything.

Nolder · April 27, 2014

I went from voting scum read to policy vote to lulz. If I was looking at someone else do that I'd be highly disturbed.

Then why are you so surprised that people are calling you out for your policy vote? If you are town I expect you to explain to everyone what your reads are and act on those when needed instead of hiding behind a convenient excuse like a policy vote that doesn't tell us nearly anything.

You didn't read anything I just said, did you?

Leelou · April 27, 2014

1 2

Leelou, when did you change your mind on Mish's opening? Just curious

Around the time that Tress came in and claimed. Both Tress and Mish's posts were sounding more townie and I got a town lean from them.

Des - that is a very outdated reads list. I'll get a new one this afternoon, but I'm off to the doctor's right now so it'll have to wait until after that.

_CLOUD · April 27, 2014

I went from voting scum read to policy vote to lulz. If I was looking at someone else do that I'd be highly disturbed.

Then why are you so surprised that people are calling you out for your policy vote? If you are town I expect you to explain to everyone what your reads are and act on those when needed instead of hiding behind a convenient excuse like a policy vote that doesn't tell us nearly anything.

You didn't read anything I just said, did you?

I did, but I still disagree with you about the timing behind your policy vote.

Nolder · April 27, 2014

I went from voting scum read to policy vote to lulz. If I was looking at someone else do that I'd be highly disturbed.

Then why are you so surprised that people are calling you out for your policy vote? If you are town I expect you to explain to everyone what your reads are and act on those when needed instead of hiding behind a convenient excuse like a policy vote that doesn't tell us nearly anything.

You didn't read anything I just said, did you?

I did, but I still disagree with you about the timing behind your policy vote.

No where in your post are you talking about timing. That's a lie.

Yates · April 27, 2014

For those of you that don't know me [or don't remember] I'm fairly anti-night talk. So, I won't be saying too much. That said, it would be awesome if I could have anyone holding this opinion clarify on the how...

Her role can be vetted WAAAAAAY before late or endgame bub. Technically Red could get lucky as hell and vet her role tonight.

So, Des, let's say she's alive tomorrow. What does that tell us? What if she's alive the next day? Or the NEXT day? Or the day after THAT?? How long do you let a scummy player slide on the basis of their claim and - frankly - for no other reason? I have asked this before [of Mish?] and didn't receive an adequate response.

_CLOUD · April 27, 2014

@Nolder: No, you are right that I didn't use the word timing in my last posts but I did explain why I have found your choice to go for a policy vote over a convential vote scummy. It comes down to the same thing.

_CLOUD · April 27, 2014

For those of you that don't know me [or don't remember] I'm fairly anti-night talk. So, I won't be saying too much. That said, it would be awesome if I could have anyone holding this opinion clarify on the how...

Her role can be vetted WAAAAAAY before late or endgame bub. Technically Red could get lucky as hell and vet her role tonight.
So, Des, let's say she's alive tomorrow. What does that tell us? What if she's alive the next day? Or the NEXT day? Or the day after THAT?? How long do you let a scummy player slide on the basis of their claim and - frankly - for no other reason? I have asked this before [of Mish?] and didn't receive an adequate response.

I would also like to hear an answer to this question.

Yates · April 27, 2014

No where in your post are you talking about timing. That's a lie.

Don't hyperbolize as a defense. He said "...I expect you to explain to everyone what your reads are and act on those when needed..." It's not a great leap in logic to understand what he's saying. In the event you disagree with my interpretation, I'll ask the question myself; why would you switch from a scum read to a policy vote when we are so close to deadline? It reads as an attempt to wash your hands of responsibility for a Town flip. THAT is a small part of why you are being scum read.

Nolder · April 27, 2014

@Nolder: No, you are right that I didn't use the word timing in my last posts but I did explain why I have found your choice to go for a policy vote over a convential vote scummy. It comes down to the same thing.

No where in your post are you talking about timing. That's a lie.
Don't hyperbolize as a defense. He said "...I expect you to explain to everyone what your reads are and act on those when needed..." It's not a great leap in logic to understand what he's saying. In the event you disagree with my interpretation, I'll ask the question myself; why would you switch from a scum read to a policy vote when we are so close to deadline? It reads as an attempt to wash your hands of responsibility for a Town flip. THAT is a small part of why you are being scum read.

It' not hyperbole. His argument literally has nothing to do with timing.

He's accusing me of hiding behind meta, which I've already addressed.

_CLOUD · April 27, 2014

Now look who isn't reading the thread ;)

[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

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