[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

[Cory Caboose]

That is NOT logical progression; this is MAFIA - X is not Y, everyone on a town lynch is not scum, town-on-town violence is THE STANDARD, not the EXCEPTION, and day 1 scum lynches are great but NOT EASY.

 

You trying to guide town down a rabbit hole is either obnoxiously bad townplay, you doing some kind of gambit, or I'm wrong about my light good feeling on you (OH HEY, I WAS WRONG ABOUT JACK LOL)

 

I guess you would argue that ANYONE WHO CRITICIZES PEOPLE WHO WERE VOCAL DURING A MISLYNCH MUST BE TOWN BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ON THE MISLYNCH
 

You must live in a world with really terrible scumgroups

[Cory Caboose]

[Lenlo]

 

 

Notice how you went red to yellow - I felt better about you after Des explained your meta.

 

Honestly I've felt better about you since your explanation of Des' meta, but consider me unfond of you attempting to run my nose in the dirt for being wrong about a Day 1 lynch

Im glad to see des could set you at such ease. Odd how effortless it was for you too begin trusting his word in this thread. A player like that. . Hell, I dont think I could be that trusting that quickly, but what do I know? Besides my role pm, that is.

 

 

I apologize for reading someone as town and then giving their well-explained cohesive thoughts some weight in my mind on a forum which I've played on three times and don't know half the frickin' players on at all considering you guys weigh EVERYTHING so heavily on metas I do not understand

 

perhaps I need to just random.org all my reads and spam gifs instead

 

Hey now, dont go stealing pages from Verbs playbook.

[Darthe]

 

Tuning me out would be to your own detriment right now.

 

Who is mafia on the jack train? Put them in order, I dont care how you do it. Give me names and make sure you consider the factors that led to his lynch when youre modofying your reads.

 

You can't force me to do anything - I operate my own way, not yours. I don't even particularly like the way you operate, why would I care if you want me to conform?

 

 

This was odd.  You should want to provide information so that we have a better sense of your alignment and intentions in the game, shouldn't you?  I am merely asking questions Cory.  If you don't like questions directed at you it is going to come off like you are attempting to avoid the attention.  

 

 

Im waiting cory. Oh, for the point of it this is me critiquing the plays of the previous night. Your play here is in the spotlight, not you. Present your thoughts well.

 

Don't bother critiquing my play - tell me what about it makes me scum.

 

If you're getting @ me as a player... get in line. I've heard it all before, I'm sure many of us have heard it all before.

 

 

Odder.  Does your play here make you scum?  That looks like A LOT more of a slip than whatever you perceived in that post from Jack.  The defensiveness here is very retaliatory though you at least know to not attempt to attack.

[dawnflower8]

Finally I can stop clucking like a chicken...

[Verbal32]

 

Because Des is very likely town and you're prolly scum

You k ow where I find a lot of scum? People who make statements they cant explain without having to jump through about a half dozen logical hoops. In any case when des dies this is going to be a noose around your neck.

 

 

You know where I find a lot of scum?  People who charge in after a mislynch and vilify other players to set them up for......wait for it........a mislynch the following day.  And then if the player flips town, blame them anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

You make a few points that I wanted highlighted here. This is all logical progression cory. Here we are:

 

These votes are not being redistributed randomly, meaning that the three of you are a uniform unit for voting purposes.

 

Your independent affects on the game are insignificant but combined create extra value or meaning.

 

Jack flipping town increases the odds that mafia were on his lynch.

 

 

With these three facts above how do I respond to it when I see on thread that at one point you voted des, that he and you distanced from tina for a while or that so far your group has proven itself unfit to find mafia? Ill tell you exactly what it says.

 

It says that your group isnt entirely town. I dont know who is mafia or how but at least one of you clearly is. That you are unwilling to acknowledge that doesnt look good for you.

 

If you have to order you three from town/scum then what do you say?

 

Fantastic deduction, Captain Obvious.  Got any more nuggets of wisdom for us?  This was seriously a ridiculous post in every possible way.  Unfit to find mafia?  Maybe they are in this game, but damn....it was D1.  Of course a member of this group (why are we calling them a group, anyway?  Weird.) could be mafia - based on percentages, one likely is.  So?

 

Are there any other completely obvious things you'd like to dazzle us with?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Notice how you went red to yellow - I felt better about you after Des explained your meta.

 

Honestly I've felt better about you since your explanation of Des' meta, but consider me unfond of you attempting to run my nose in the dirt for being wrong about a Day 1 lynch

Im glad to see des could set you at such ease. Odd how effortless it was for you too begin trusting his word in this thread. A player like that. . Hell, I dont think I could be that trusting that quickly, but what do I know? Besides my role pm, that is.

 

 

I apologize for reading someone as town and then giving their well-explained cohesive thoughts some weight in my mind on a forum which I've played on three times and don't know half the frickin' players on at all considering you guys weigh EVERYTHING so heavily on metas I do not understand

 

perhaps I need to just random.org all my reads and spam gifs instead

 

Hey now, dont go stealing pages from Verbs playbook.

 

 

Spidey pics are srs bizness.  Random.org sucks, though.

[Verbal32]

 

 

Tuning me out would be to your own detriment right now.

 

Who is mafia on the jack train? Put them in order, I dont care how you do it. Give me names and make sure you consider the factors that led to his lynch when youre modofying your reads.

 

You can't force me to do anything - I operate my own way, not yours. I don't even particularly like the way you operate, why would I care if you want me to conform?

 

 

This was odd.  You should want to provide information so that we have a better sense of your alignment and intentions in the game, shouldn't you?  I am merely asking questions Cory.  If you don't like questions directed at you it is going to come off like you are attempting to avoid the attention.  

 

 

Im waiting cory. Oh, for the point of it this is me critiquing the plays of the previous night. Your play here is in the spotlight, not you. Present your thoughts well.

 

Don't bother critiquing my play - tell me what about it makes me scum.

 

If you're getting @ me as a player... get in line. I've heard it all before, I'm sure many of us have heard it all before.

 

 

Odder.  Does your play here make you scum?  That looks like A LOT more of a slip than whatever you perceived in that post from Jack.  The defensiveness here is very retaliatory though you at least know to not attempt to attack.

 

 

You noticed that, eh?  I wonder if it has anything to do with the lovely and personable way you're presenting yourself to him......

 

I mean, just a thought.  Perhaps I'm just way off.

[Verbal32]

(Hint:  I'm not.)

[Darthe]

 

You make a few points that I wanted highlighted here. This is all logical progression cory. Here we are:

 

These votes are not being redistributed randomly, meaning that the three of you are a uniform unit for voting purposes.

 

Your independent affects on the game are insignificant but combined create extra value or meaning.

 

Jack flipping town increases the odds that mafia were on his lynch.

 

 

With these three facts above how do I respond to it when I see on thread that at one point you voted des, that he and you distanced from tina for a while or that so far your group has proven itself unfit to find mafia? Ill tell you exactly what it says.

 

It says that your group isnt entirely town. I dont know who is mafia or how but at least one of you clearly is. That you are unwilling to acknowledge that doesnt look good for you.

 

If you have to order you three from town/scum then what do you say?

I still don't know the third person we were all on.

 

While I'm not arguing the possibility of Mafia on the Jack train, there's no causality principle here and the amount of Mafia in the Jack pool is not guaranteed higher % than the non Jack pool - this is just rampant speculation with no thread evidence to support it. So your statement, as far as I care, is invalid anyway. These are not "facts" - in fact, it's this black and white cherrypicking kind of thought process that derail town regardless of YOUR alignment. Should we just lynch every Jack train member until we've won or lost? Is that your approach to a SOLVE?

 

Day 1 scum lynches are great, but if you think I'm UNFIT TO FIND MAFIA because I supported a lynch that ended in a town lynch Day 1, I don't really care to communicate with you further. That's your awful opinion and oyu can hold it.

 

I'm more confident on Tina, I'd guess, because I know Des can spin a yarn, but I think both are town.

 

I seriously don't how to deal with this type of thinking

 

In response to the bolded.  Actually, there is a much higher chance of mafia to be on his train than not.  Him being town increases it because it aligns with their goals.  Majority required for lynch means that for no mafia to be on his train must be at least 8 of the 10-11 townies.  Highly unlikely as well.  That would make the nonjack lynch pool of 6 half mafia, which I sincerely doubt you are suggesting.  Actually, your approach to my response in that entire paragraph is the faulty logic that I used during the last game where Len vigged me.  I was mafia.  Verb pointed out the truth of the matter though i did argue it so I anticipate that he will have something to say here as well.

 

As for your caps lock bit, I think your group (You, Tina, Des) is mafia led and so yes, distinctly the group is unfit to find mafia.  Would you care to disagree that scum intend to fail at finding scum?

 

That is NOT logical progression; this is MAFIA - X is not Y, everyone on a town lynch is not scum, town-on-town violence is THE STANDARD, not the EXCEPTION, and day 1 scum lynches are great but NOT EASY.

 

You trying to guide town down a rabbit hole is either obnoxiously bad townplay, you doing some kind of gambit, or I'm wrong about my light good feeling on you (OH HEY, I WAS WRONG ABOUT JACK LOL)

 

I guess you would argue that ANYONE WHO CRITICIZES PEOPLE WHO WERE VOCAL DURING A MISLYNCH MUST BE TOWN BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ON THE MISLYNCH

 

You must live in a world with really terrible scumgroups

 

"NOT logical progression" are you legitimately going to argue that mafia is not a logic game?  I can't wait to see you try and play to that all game if you stick with it.  You are peppering an emotive argument with a few basic truths of the game but that doesn't make your assertions more accurate overall.  

 

In any case, that is entirely misrepresentative of my early statements because it takes them out of context, ignores the fact that your scenario is entirely unrealistic and still fails to address your group-think mentality or the possibility that your reads are wrong despite your initial votes being proven inaccurate.

 

On to the bold!  Remember that "At least you knew better than to attack me" thing I said earlier?  The one that is a general scumtell we see when a mafia player is in a corner?  The one you learn to avoid in mafia 101?  There it is!

 

And again you ignore that my argument is against your group.  You've aligned yourself with two other people so strongly that you cannot escape it.  Now you're stuck.  You either have to fight me or turn on them and neither is going to do you anything good so you're attempting to change the argument to something that you can win.  

 

I don't plan to let that happen.  You've already acknowledged that you were voting with a group and that the group is working together despite some discrepancies in their play that look an awful lot like indecision.  However, we aren't seeing that on thread when one of you is asked to speak for the whole and we are constantly being presented with an imperfect series of responses that ignores the core issues that:

 

A) Three people voted together on three trains.  That is not a town cores' behavior because three people shouldn't agree with one another perfectly, shouldn't all vote these trains sequentially and together and shouldn't all use the same reasoning each time (which, for those who can't recall, was never more than one line).

 

B) One of the trains they were on was confirmed to be town.  This increases their odds of being mafia empirically and statistically.  That is an undeniable fact of mathematical reasoning.  

 

C) One member of the group that has been questioned so far has adamantly refused to firmly recognize that one of the group or more may be mafia.  He will not place them in order from town to mafia, will not scrutinize the play of his group and fails to even acknowledge the situation he is in.

 

 

#Game

[Darthe]

 

 

 

Tuning me out would be to your own detriment right now.

 

Who is mafia on the jack train? Put them in order, I dont care how you do it. Give me names and make sure you consider the factors that led to his lynch when youre modofying your reads.

 

You can't force me to do anything - I operate my own way, not yours. I don't even particularly like the way you operate, why would I care if you want me to conform?

 

 

This was odd.  You should want to provide information so that we have a better sense of your alignment and intentions in the game, shouldn't you?  I am merely asking questions Cory.  If you don't like questions directed at you it is going to come off like you are attempting to avoid the attention.  

 

 

Im waiting cory. Oh, for the point of it this is me critiquing the plays of the previous night. Your play here is in the spotlight, not you. Present your thoughts well.

 

Don't bother critiquing my play - tell me what about it makes me scum.

 

If you're getting @ me as a player... get in line. I've heard it all before, I'm sure many of us have heard it all before.

 

 

Odder.  Does your play here make you scum?  That looks like A LOT more of a slip than whatever you perceived in that post from Jack.  The defensiveness here is very retaliatory though you at least know to not attempt to attack.

 

 

You noticed that, eh?  I wonder if it has anything to do with the lovely and personable way you're presenting yourself to him......

 

I mean, just a thought.  Perhaps I'm just way off.

 

 

Shush you, I am busy playing this out.  Really, you have got to stop sticking your mouth into situations prematurely.  

[Cory Caboose]

 

 

 

 

Tuning me out would be to your own detriment right now.

 

Who is mafia on the jack train? Put them in order, I dont care how you do it. Give me names and make sure you consider the factors that led to his lynch when youre modofying your reads.

 

You can't force me to do anything - I operate my own way, not yours. I don't even particularly like the way you operate, why would I care if you want me to conform?

 

 

This was odd.  You should want to provide information so that we have a better sense of your alignment and intentions in the game, shouldn't you?  I am merely asking questions Cory.  If you don't like questions directed at you it is going to come off like you are attempting to avoid the attention.  

 

 

Im waiting cory. Oh, for the point of it this is me critiquing the plays of the previous night. Your play here is in the spotlight, not you. Present your thoughts well.

 

Don't bother critiquing my play - tell me what about it makes me scum.

 

If you're getting @ me as a player... get in line. I've heard it all before, I'm sure many of us have heard it all before.

 

 

Odder.  Does your play here make you scum?  That looks like A LOT more of a slip than whatever you perceived in that post from Jack.  The defensiveness here is very retaliatory though you at least know to not attempt to attack.

 

 

You noticed that, eh?  I wonder if it has anything to do with the lovely and personable way you're presenting yourself to him......

 

I mean, just a thought.  Perhaps I'm just way off.

 

 

Shush you, I am busy playing this out.  Really, you have got to stop sticking your mouth into situations prematurely.  

 

This is the goddamn issue - you are attempting to game me rather than discuss with me

 

If you're town you are barking up the wrong tree

I do remember something from the hydra mafiachat about you liking to oppose known power townies for towncred, I'll have to reread that

 

I gain nothing by jumping down your rabbit hole, so do what you want

[Leelou]

[Verbal32]

As for your caps lock bit, I think your group (You, Tina, Des) is mafia led and so yes, distinctly the group is unfit to find mafia.  Would you care to disagree that scum intend to fail at finding scum?

 

I'm gonna just post this post and then stop defending Cory.  This is also ridiculous, and nobody will fall for it.  Sometimes townies fail at finding scum.  Just because they did today does not make any of them scum, even though any group of 3-4 players you pick from this game likely have a scum member in them.  You use simple math and then dress it up for the prom.  Won't work.

 

 

 

Shush you, I am busy playing this out.  Really, you have got to stop sticking your mouth into situations prematurely.  

 

Captain Ironic now, right?

 

I see what you are doing.  I'm telling you it won't work in the way you'd expect.  If it does, I'll think much less of Cory than I currently do...which is reasonably high.

[Verbal32]

 

 

POST OF THE GAME

[Cory Caboose]

The only other game I've played with Darthe was a VS game that was quite some time ago where Rayn (who was town) assaulted the hell out of me because I didn't join a scum lynch (that went through anyway) and he made me so frustrated that I claimed my PR and gave up and was promptly NKed for it

 

Darthe was scum that game and I feel like this is a similar situation, but you have my meta wrong if you think I'm going to let you get in my head.

[Cory Caboose]

I need to reread the Hydra Mafia QT and then the thread. #werkwerkwerk

[Tommyrod]

Good news: I'm town. Bad news: it's clutch time in another game I'm in, lemme settle those affairs and then you'll have my attention. 

 

Also hi!

 

Cory, CLIFFS pls

[Lenlo]

Bad news: I'm town. Good news: it's clutch time in another game I'm in, lemme settle those affairs and then you'll have my attention. 

 

Also hi!

 

Cory, CLIFFS pls

Fixed that for you.

[Cory Caboose]

whatever yolo

 

"NOT logical progression" are you legitimately going to argue that mafia is not a logic game?  I can't wait to see you try and play to that all game if you stick with it.  You are peppering an emotive argument with a few basic truths of the game but that doesn't make your assertions more accurate overall.  

 

 

Mafia has logic elements, but it's mostly a game about DECEPTION. I use thought process analysis and tone as my main townie weapons. This is known, and I'm not saying anyone's way is better so don't get on your horse and tell me that you can logic out the game with percentages and fractional components.

 

In any case, that is entirely misrepresentative of my early statements because it takes them out of context, ignores the fact that your scenario is entirely unrealistic and still fails to address your group-think mentality or the possibility that your reads are wrong despite your initial votes being proven inaccurate.

 

 

Find me a Mafia player that is correct 100% of the time.

 

On to the bold!  Remember that "At least you knew better than to attack me" thing I said earlier?  The one that is a general scumtell we see when a mafia player is in a corner?  The one you learn to avoid in mafia 101?  There it is!

 

 

The more you give me to discern your alignment the better, though I need to get into your thought process a bit more. Luckily, I have those resources! 

 

And again you ignore that my argument is against your group.  You've aligned yourself with two other people so strongly that you cannot escape it.  Now you're stuck.  You either have to fight me or turn on them and neither is going to do you anything good so you're attempting to change the argument to something that you can win.  

 

 

lolwut

 

You of all people should understand how malleable towncred is. My reads flip around all the time with new information. just lol.

 

I don't plan to let that happen.  You've already acknowledged that you were voting with a group and that the group is working together despite some discrepancies in their play that look an awful lot like indecision.  However, we aren't seeing that on thread when one of you is asked to speak for the whole and we are constantly being presented with an imperfect series of responses that ignores the core issues that:

 

 

 

You don't plan to let my reads develop as the game unfolds? Okay. 

 

A) Three people voted together on three trains.  That is not a town cores' behavior because three people shouldn't agree with one another perfectly, shouldn't all vote these trains sequentially and together and shouldn't all use the same reasoning each time (which, for those who can't recall, was never more than one line).

 

 

This is pretty  usual where I'm from. Generally games where townies play cohesively and transparently, town wins. At least in my experience.

 

B) One of the trains they were on was confirmed to be town.  This increases their odds of being mafia empirically and statistically.  That is an undeniable fact of mathematical reasoning.

 

 

No, because we are PEOPLE, not numbers. I know plenty of people who would avoid a Day 1 town lynch intrinstically to get early towncred, I know players who push a bus Day 1 every day - this is a game of PSYCHOLOGY more than a game of LOGIC. 

 

C) One member of the group that has been questioned so far has adamantly refused to firmly recognize that one of the group or more may be mafia.  He will not place them in order from town to mafia, will not scrutinize the play of his group and fails to even acknowledge the situation he is in.

 

 

Could Des or Tina be mafia? Possibly. Do I think both are town? Yes. What is your point?

 

The situation I am in? Show me the votes first. All I have is your counterlogical chimneysweep garbage argument, which I'm acknowledging to humor you at this point.

 

#Game

 

 

Cool story - are we done?

[Leelou]

POST OF THE GAME

 

<3

[Cory Caboose]

Good news: I'm town. Bad news: it's clutch time in another game I'm in, lemme settle those affairs and then you'll have my attention. 

 

Also hi!

 

Cory, CLIFFS pls

 

Jack D. is my own personal uslydevilu

 

Darthe is being a stonewalling chimneysweep UncleDynamite-level shotgunner

 

You probably would have leapt at the throat of your predecessor when you reread his three posts but he was apparently legitimately busy so #YOLO #LOCKCLEAR

 

Lenlo was really tense and then I told him how tense he was and he instantly got loose

 

Me, Des, Tina are the most obvious scumgroup of all time

 

You're lock clear because three people voted you and then voted somewhere else and that other vote turned out to be town via Darthelogic

 

Clov is being Clov

 

Scum is probably in Clov-Lenlo-Dice-Pral-Darthe-Dawn

 

Hallia should start posting soon so we should know what she is 

[BFG]

 

It's also odd. That when des and I were tied. Bfg voted me for consolidation. Making it seem I was the only viable train.

Salient point

 

I voted Jack over Des because I had a town read on Des and said so at the time. That's not ignoring the other train.

 

 

vote Jack

 

Des's posts have seemed pro town since the vote on Csarmi

[BFG]

 

 

Salami is more likely town than mafia anyways, but I would say that that is exacerbated from the attempt of that same group to form a train on him for reasoning that, as I pointed out, literally did not exist.  They didn't cite anything.  Added onto that the fact that he was the latest of a defacto train switch and the potential for that to be mafia led and I would say that he goes from the ~75% we all have to ~90% to be town.

 

What's given you a town read on Csarmi besides the train on him at this point?  Additionally on the train you have Des, Cory, Tina as mafia for voting together and Des is your strongest read, yet Des has defended Tina and to a certain extent Cory, something I don't recall him ever doing as Mafia?

 

I had hoped for more than this des. You once again have greatly exxadurated segments too see how people own up in reactions too them.

 

Which sections do you think are exaggerated.

 

 

 

Not when I answered it before when she asked and she quoted my answer asking the same question again.

I'm asking why you think Csarmi is Town other than the train on him, your response in there is about the train. If you mean the part where you said the case was exaggerated, then that explains why you think he isn't mafia, not why you think he's likely Town. Also can you explain why you have Des as mafia with people he's defended? And again which parts of Des's cases are exaggerated?

 

@Lenlo, I think I mixed up some of your opinions on Des/Tina with some of Darthe's sorry

 

 

 

Is that not reason enough?

Not when you implied that you had a town read on Csarmi irrespective of his subsequent train. So why did you have a town read of Csarmi at that point? What parts of Des's cases were exaggerated?

[Darthe]

 

 

 

Shush you, I am busy playing this out.  Really, you have got to stop sticking your mouth into situations prematurely.  

 

Captain Ironic now, right?

 

I see what you are doing.  I'm telling you it won't work in the way you'd expect.  If it does, I'll think much less of Cory than I currently do...which is reasonably high.

 

 

I've been through this before enough times to know how people react to it.  I don't want it to work like you're assuming because that requires me to anticipate his alignment before hand.  Know what I mean?  I have three people on my list right now, seems good to narrow it to two before moving forward.  Cory is the wildcard of them where I know what I anticipate of Des and Tina.

[Cory Caboose]

 

 

 

 

Shush you, I am busy playing this out.  Really, you have got to stop sticking your mouth into situations prematurely.  

 

Captain Ironic now, right?

 

I see what you are doing.  I'm telling you it won't work in the way you'd expect.  If it does, I'll think much less of Cory than I currently do...which is reasonably high.

 

 

I've been through this before enough times to know how people react to it.  I don't want it to work like you're assuming because that requires me to anticipate his alignment before hand.  Know what I mean?  I have three people on my list right now, seems good to narrow it to two before moving forward.  Cory is the wildcard of them where I know what I anticipate of Des and Tina.