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DRAGONMOUNT

 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

[Basic] Reboot Mafia Game MAFIA WINS

WolfbrotherKronos

By WolfbrotherKronos
in DM Mafia Games

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Tyler Glembo Master

Tyler Glembo

Posted
Posted

Claiming town is a null statement in a basic game.

 

I never argued that it was anything more than that.

 

But you consistently do it (not speaking of specific games, speaking of your typical play).  And you haven't done it here.  Meta, you're off it.

Kaylee Spam Master

Kaylee

Posted
Posted

For reference I quoted Despo's final reads and my analysis of his play. 

 

I'll comment on those that I have thoughts on already, the rest will have to wait until I can get to them. Should have time this afternoon if not after this is done. For those that I will ISO I may not quote everything but rather make comments on what stands out to me and add quotes to clarify.

Reads:

 

1. Kaylee - Scum. She has fallen victim to whyme fryme a lot this game, and has waffled and flip flopped on me and AJ a lot. When this is pointed out she pretty much responds "I haven't flip flopped" then later goes back to show what made her flip flop on something.... yeah. She should def be our lynch today based on scumminess but oh well /shrug
2. Wwwwombat - Nullish leaning scum here. He's very good at looking like strong town so I find myself doubting some of the points I saw against him, but overall I find myself disagreeing with some of the stuff he's saying a bit too much, which is strange since I normally am in agreement with virtually everything he says when he's town.
3. Verbal32 - Town. Looks to me more like #yolotown than #yoloscum Verbal to me. His scum tone early on is more Snidely Whiplashy, whereas town it's more just generally silly and blatantly un-self conscious.
4. Despo - Town
5. Cory Amegakure - Scum. Hasn't handled reads well all game, has only focused on me and AJ instead of looking at others as well, and I think he scumslipped with that thing on Peace.
6. Hallia - Null. Looks like Hallia is back to her old ways unfortunately.
7. Peace - Town based on tone. Plus I think Amega spewed him as town as well. Do not lynch.
8. Puppets - Looks like lazy scum to me. Nudges train on me without really saying much else, has disappeared again.
9. Leelou - Had an early scum read, went to town, now I'm kinda uncertain. Her recent "I dunno what to do guys" post has me worried it's a scummer trying to ditch responsibility for her vote.
10. Csarmi - Town, had something early which made me think so, can't remember now. But he's followed up his stuff fairly well, and pointed out inconsistencies and such in other's posts.
11. AJ - claimed Doc, likely town
12. Xthrax - Null, I honestly skimmed right past his wot's, didn't really have time to read them.

1. Me-He found me scummy I can see why others did too. I was confused on him and didn't do the best explaining, but I know I'm town.

2. Wombat- I'd have to isolate his posts tbh. I was confused by the number of scumminess and how he voted accordingly. Wombat: What are your reads now. Have any changed, if so why?

3. Another I'll have to look at by ISO. (Will be the same for almost everyone so I can form my own opinions.)

4. Despo was scum

5. Amega- have to ISO

6. Leaning scum atm. Her being gone a lot and not posting is null, but her coming in after me to vote Despo with no other comments, doesn't feel town.

7. Peace- have to ISO, but Despo's comment not to lynch him is noted. As is Peace's comment that Despo busses so keep that in mind. It stood out, not sure what I make of it as yet, but it stood out.

8. Puppets TG- For the same reason as Despo I found him suspicious. Not sure about TG. See how he plays.

9. Leelou- Have to ISO (Despo's back and forth on her is noted though).

10. Csarmi- have to ISO

11. AJ- Doc

12. X- seemed to be making cases and honestly scumhunting. Will look through his posts to see if anything jumps out at me.

 

 

(I'll be numbering the parts I'm going to comment on below this quote)

Going to do this without quotes ad a heads up. (There will be spelling errors as my brace won't allow my to type probperly)

 

Despo starts off with a back and forth with AJ. (Arguemnt being that AJ's too jovial to be town roled)

 

He then comments on AJ's threats saying it's overagrressive. (To which I agree)

 

1. He also comments on Leelou (which I copy paste here in bold) Leelou somewhat- her first post was a "helpful townie" post asking about the player list, second post was a reminder about future activity level from her, third was a joke vote on Wombat, who everyone pretty much loves. After this she's a little active and even has a jab @ Salami, which I dunno seems strange after her explanation about how she'd only post at night.

 

Doesn't really seem like much to me but I included it since it's a comment from him about another player.

 

He then goes back to AJ saying he's threatening and ducking every comment he makes while cheerleading others to vote Despo.

 

He tells AJ his style is to go after something he finds off, even something minor, and that he'll point it out. He also says AJ seems to be trying to bully him off of pressuring AJ.

 

They have more back and forth with AJ threatening and Despo commenting on it.

 

Then AJ gives his "reads" of players and Despo calls it all summarizing metas. 

 

Despo comments on a post of Csarmi's stating we should consider everyone as scum until proved otherwise. Despo agrees.

 

2. He quotes more of Csarmi and says he one of AJ's teammates for calling his and AJ's back and forth a gambit. He says Csarmi's vote on AJ looks like thier temmates and he wants to leave the window open for a lynch on Despo when AJ flips scum.

 

He goes back to AJ and says he's distancing from Csarmi because he had asked if Csarmi was scum.

 

3. He quotes Csarmi quoting AJ and says he agrees that AJ's wording about wanting to think that Csarmi was town is based on weak meta.

 

4. Despo then quotes another post of Csarmi's saying that it gave him more of a town vibe from him since it mirrored his own thoughts.

 

In response to a quote from Verbal, he says although it's not a reliable scumtell calling a gambit is a scumtell and explains why he thinks so. He finds it a way of setting up lynches or at least  laying suspicion. He he bodly called something out on someone was was OMGUS'd and that's why people think it's a gambit. (Expect if he's referring to the jovial thing, that doesn't hold water to me.)

 

5. He quotes me and says that I changed my reasons for why I think it's a gambit and that's a ping. (That's one of the quotes I messed up and said as much in response to X's case btw). 

 

6. He quotes Amega and points out that another player thinks Despo and AJ are pulling a gambit.

 

7. Quotes the post where Leelou quotes my vote on AJ and questions it. Despo says he agrees with Leelou about me following AJ onto Despo and leaving it open to switch. He says that makes him feel better about Leelou. 

 

He quotes AJ's vote switch and says it's because he was getting heat so now finds Despo more likely town. He calls it backtracking. Comments again on the jovial thing, and again comments on the threats. He also points out it's odd that AJ likes Amega's post yet Kaylee says gambit and he votes there...says it's nice distancing from Kaylee. (I didn't use I for my name here so as not to confuse).

 

Despo says AJ and I are scum and the third is likely laying low. Says he doesn't have any strong town reads and he wants people to give thoughts on things other than the potential gambit.

 

Then comes his unvote of AJ without explanation.

 

8. He quotes AJ who had quoted Amega questioning if he knew Peace's alignment. Despo says good catch to AJ and says he doesn't like Amega's use of meta to justify it. He votes Amega and says he'd be willing to lynch me for my flip flop.

 

9. Next he quotes Amega and says it's not the fact that he says lurking, but the fact that he said town lurking is a slip and he thinks Amega knows Peace's alingmnet.

 

10. He comes back to find he's at L-2 and votes me (which I expected). 

 

He then goes into explaining how he looked back and figured how AJ must've not been worried about getting lynched or NK'd so figured he was likely Doc. (This was after he figured AJ must not be vig). He said he decided to peel off of AJ and didn't want to say why since he didn't want scum to come to the same conclusion. 

 

11. He quotes Amega and isn't sure if he's an off townie of scum trying to justify the Peace slip thing.

 

12. He calls SP suspect for saying Despo was off yet not voting, even as close to deadline as it was. 

 

13. He says Amega, in the post Despo quoted, first is doing damage control over the Peace thing, and then suddenly switched to thinking Des was town now without Despo posting anything since for him to change his mind about.

 

14. He quotes Verbal and is angry about his logic about never lynched an uncc'd Doc. 

 

15. He likes Wombat's NL idea.

 

16. He then quotes Wombat's number of scumminess chart...he comments that Wombat says anyone going after Kaylee, Peace and Amega are noteworthy indicating strong town reads on the 3, yet Peace is a 4 putting him just under Despo. He also feels Wombat's 7 on AJ was becasue AJ went after Wombat...

 

17. He then quotes Amega's vote switch to Des and calls it awful saying Amega breadcumbed his switch from him before AJ's reveal. He also comment that Amega doesn't seem to fight AJ's claim very hard, in fact just says "since my number one pick is out of commission" he'll swtich to Despo. He says it's more likely done by scum than town.

 

18. He then quotes me saying my reads of him kept changing saying I only switched to him based on his unvote...

 

19. Next he comments on Hally's bandwagon vote after sitting on the sidelines.

 

20. He says he has a town vibe from Peace due to his reads on others.

 

21. He questions Wombat's town reads of Kaylee and Amega since Despo has scum reads on both and they don't usually disagree that much. He disagrees with Wombat saying Peace is an easy target and is getting town vibes from Peace.

 

He questions why slowing the vote down is anti-town saying it leads to more discussion. (That's not true when it's close to deadline though since people are in different time zones and cant always be around to discuss and make a lynch happen at the last minuet.)

 

He then gives reads of everyone...

 

22. He says his top suspects are Kaylee, Amega, Puppet and Wombat. 

 

He quotes AJ and says it's bad reasoning to not lynch someone because they don't claim. He says that makes me 100^% scum and hopes others see that in time, if not he'll self hammer.

 

23. He quotes X and says he didn't read his WoT but people could switch to voting Kaylee in the morning, especially since I left without claiming.

Note: I won't comment on AJ since we know he was Doc. This is to show who he mentioned, why and if he changed reads on anyone and why.

 

 

1. Not sure why he added this part tbh. He mentions Leelou as slightly suspicious, but for reasons that don't make sense to me. (Except possibly the helpful townie thing...but it still feels think and forced).

 

2. Here he mentions Csarmi is scum for calling their back and forth a gambit..saying he must be AJ's teammate and gives reasons why. I mention this because this goes towards those he's commented on.

 

3. Now he agrees with something Csarmi pointed out against AJ.

 

4. Despo now has a town read on Csarmi. Not sure what to make of the switch...I'd have to look at what was said by Csarmi in both and make my own opinion but it is interesting.

 

5. He finds me scummy for flip flopping and changing my views. 

 

6. First mention of Amega since he also said gambit.

 

7. He agrees with Leelou's questions to me and that makes his feel she's more likely town. (Considering there were weak reasons to find her scummy in the first place, he seems happy to switch to calling her a town read. My opinion. ) This is the second person he's changed his reads on. May be because he knew she was town and can now be on record saying as much, or could be because they're teammates and he's trying to make her seem more likely town. I'll form my own opinion looking back at her posts.

 

8. Despo likes AJ's catch of Amega seeming to know Peace's alignment. He doesn't like the meta explanation Amega gave either. He also still thinks I"m scum. 

 

9. Despo says it's Amgea's use of the words town lurking that make him seem scummy.

 

10. He votes me. Totally expected as I was the other long train atm. 

 

11. Now he's not sure if Amega is an off townie or scum trying to justify the Peace slip thing.

 

12. Says SP is off for finding Despo so suspicious yet not voting him. (I agree with this point actually).

 

13. Says Amega goes from doing damage control on the Peace comment to suddenly thinking Despo was town without Despo posting anything in between/since for Amega to change his mind to. (Interesting point for sure, I'll have to check that).

 

14. He's upset that Verbal has the idea that you shouldn't lynch an uncc'd PR.

 

15. He likes Wombat's NL idea.

 

16. He comments on Wombat's number of scumminess chart showing how he thinks Peace is town and yet has him as a high scum number.

 

17. Despo comments on Amega's vote switch to him saying he breadcrummbed it, said Amega didn't fight AJ's claim hard, and that Amega reasoning for the switch "since my number one pick is out of commission" is more likely done by scum than town.

 

18. He still finds me scummy for the same reasons as before. 

 

19. Comments on Hally's bandwagon vote after she sat on the sidelines. (I also agree with that).

 

20. He has a town vibe from Peace due to similar thoughts on others.

 

21. He questions Wombat on his reads of me and Amega since Despo has us both as scum reads and they don't typically disagree that much. He also does't like Wombat's reasons for having Peace as a high read yet defending him (The whole I find anyone suspect that....for myself, Peace and Amega).

 

22. Despo's top suspects are Kaylee, Amega, Wombat and Puppet. (These are the ones he's consistent about as well.)

 

23. Despo tell X that people can still switch to voting me, since X preferred my lynch, that there would be time in the morning.

 

 

_CLOUD Veteran

_CLOUD

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone :biggrin:
 
 
Here are my thoughts on pages 1 - 5:
 

Underlined: Unfortunately not much. Only other person that really sticks out to me so far is Leelou somewhat- her first post was a "helpful townie" post asking about the player list, second post was a reminder about future activity level from her, third was a joke vote on Wombat, who everyone pretty much loves. After this she's a little active and even has a jab @ Salami, which I dunno seems strange after her explanation about how she'd only post at night.

 

This pretty much clears Leelou as town for me. He is bringing up that horrible “helpful townie” scumtell that he is so fond of using, and then continues on trying to FoS her for a joke vote on Wombat with the reasoning being that everyone loves Wombat and for her jab at Salami which was actually a joke between her and Salami. In short this is terrible reasoning for suspecting someone and the fact that he is scrambling for every little thing he can find and tries to turn it into something substantial is telling. I also doubt that he is trying to distance away from Leelou because he has only mentioned AJ so far. If he had managed to get him lynched and he flips town he could then easily switch to his second scum read which would be Leelou, but he would be stuck in an awkward position if everyone started pointing out how scummy he had found Leelou at the start of the game but didn’t follow up on it.
 

As far as I'm concerned these people should be considered scum until otherwise proven: Despo, Verb, Wombat, Leelou & SP.

 

Everyone should be considered scum until proven otherwise. You aren’t able to properly hunt if you fail to adopt this mindset.

 

Incidentally I actually disagree with your meta assessment of me. I kind of pride myself on being able to keep from tunneling too much and not being too stubborn with reads. I think what you are reading as stubborness is just my aggressiveness. I go all out at peeps I think are scum, even if there's not that much to go on. I figure I have to compensate for others who might vote or fos but don't follow it up with the right amount of pressure. Once I have determined that my target is likely town however, I'll back off and pursue a lead elsewhere.


Here Despo is agreeing with AJ’s statement that a town Despo is stubborn, and that it is a good indicator that he is scum if he is pushed off his stances easily.
 

Pretty sure I found one of AJ's teammates^

Def a common scum tactic to come in and fos two people who are both going @ each other and call it a possible gambit. In this case tho, seeing you vote AJ, I'm pretty sure you're his scumbuddy and you wanna leave the door open to try and lynch me after he flips scum. Won't work dude.

 

Despo is linking AJ with Salami saying how scummy he is for FoSing both of them.
 

#DAT DISTANCING

 

Pushes for his scum read on Salami even more.
 

I agree with #2, I thought the same thing. Hrmmm.

 

And then starts to back away from his oh so certain scum read on Salami just because he apparently had the same thought as him, but we now know that he was mafia and that AJ was town so he was obviously lying about sharing the same thought as Salami. He also didn’t even address the part that Salami was talking about when he quotes the same post and replied with #DAT DISTANCING. If he for some reason really thought that despite knowing that AJ was town then he would have mentioned it a moment earlier anyway. #IRONY

This exchange between the two of them should clear Salami as town you guys.
 

To me it feels like distancing between Des and AJ. The threats on AJ's part seems overdone for so early in the game. His adding Leelou as suspect after Des mentions her is interesting.

 

Kaylee is blatantly misinterpreting AJ’s post where he mentioned Leelou. He only said that a scum Leelou will make lists that don’t add up (I believe he is referencing Despo’s CWAJGA game here), but Leelou has yet to make any kind of list in this game. He wasn’t FoSing her. I also don’t like how you only call it “interesting” which is a very vague statement that leaves a lot of wiggle room if you don’t underpin it. And you didn’t say anything what you thought about Leelou herself, and despite this chose to put her in a bad light by linking her with AJ and Des.

 

Vote Des

Why vote Des? To get a train started there with a second vote instead of putting AJ at 4 votes. I can switch my vote to AJ if need be.

 

This is a lot of over explanation for a simple vote. It’s also scummy how she doesn’t say what she thinks about Des other than saying the fight between him and AJ looks like distancing to her.

 

For me it's that and suddenly, after they go back and forth a bit, AJ has list of potential suspects, supposedly based off meta. The problem I have with that is Leelou is on the list after Des mentions her, and for weak reasons

 

Again, it was clear that they weren’t his suspects.

_CLOUD Veteran

_CLOUD

Posted
Posted

Page 6:
 

 

@Des: I disagree with your statement of calling potential gambit being a scumtell. Nothing wrong if a townie wants to mention that as an FYI and a statement on how they are viewing the situation.

Ugh, lulz phase was too quick! I'm scumhunting already?! What is this nonsense?!?!


The bold is part of what makes me think they are pulling a gambit.

 


How does this statement even make sense when the following was your reasoning for suspecting it to be a gambit?

 

To me it feels like distancing between Des and AJ. The threats on AJ's part seems overdone for so early in the game. His adding Leelou as suspect after Des mentions her is interesting.


Verbal doesn't even say that he thinks it's a gambit. He only explains that saying that it was a gambit isn't a scummy thing to do.
 

spider-man-meme-smooth-criminal.jpg
For vebal's sanity and cause it seemed fitting!

I have to say that my first thoughts where scum tells on aj but a few times i got a gambit feeling. I'd have to say im leaning more town on despo if anyone. Even though the starting case seemed pretty hollow aj didnt hold up well with pressure. But the more it went the akwarder the casing looked for both sides. im not going to dismiss a gambit for that reason but im not totally convince of it yet. That would just be way to optimistic for a realist like me.

Also i didnt care for AJ's use of meta's like that! go ahead and tell scum exactly how not to behave this game. Wasn't found of that.

What were the scum tells you got from watching AJ play? What parts gave you the idea that it could be a gambit? What made you lean town on Despo? I’m asking these questions because while saying a lot you actually don’t explain any of your reads. And no, calling cases awkward isn’t enough justification.
 

wow.. for someone who tooth and nail proclaimed Des as scum yesterday you are jumping off the case rather quickly with a meta for a reasoning. Im thinking either your trying to get out of a corner or two we hit the nail on the head with the gambit and this is the only way to separate your self from despo.

“Could do this, could do that”. I’m not a fan of wishy washy reads. I don’t this mean the wrong way but how experienced are you in mafia, Amega?
 

Caught up, I didn't see anything that really stood out for AJ's play. Joviality could just be someone being in a good mood, and I see it as a null-tell. it seems like you were makin' something out of nothing this time Dessypoo. I can't tell as far as Csarmi goes, I hope we get to see you for more than D1 this time! :tongue:

Unvote

Hallia was one of the few people early in the game who actually made some sense. Her reads on AJ and Despo were spot on. It’s just a shame she didn’t follow it up with a vote on Despo but this post still made me smile.
 

She was making something out of nothing hallia, i think we're all agreed thats how she scumhunts to look for reactions. and while im not deciding if their was a gambit at play you seem quick to push off the reactions aj has made due to Despo's play. Nothing at all seemed scummy in his post or even together? Did you feel as if a gambit was possible? your read seems rather vague.

LOL @ Despo being referred to as a she and saying that Hallia’s reads was vague :laugh: I also don’t like how you are defending Despo here. I guess it’s true that Despo likes to make something out of nothing at the early stages of the game, but that time has passed away and his case on AJ was pretty serious.
 

Interesting analysis Hally. :dry:

It was also better than yours :tongue:

Kaylee Spam Master

Kaylee

Posted
Posted

I'll comment on what stands out to me. 

 

Wombat:

 

Comes in and comments on the back and forth between AJ and Despo, calls them both dirty. He also calls AJ's attack on Amega going after an easy target and said that wasn't a scum slip. He then says those trying to push Kaylee, Amega and Peace are suspect and votes AJ.

 

He comments on AJ's claim pointing out his play up till then, says why claim Doc at L-3 with 3 days left. (I think, even though I didn't believe the claim, that this was a good move as it allowed for more discussion and allowed for time to have another train build).

 

Later he votes for NL saying he feels better about Des after a re-read. He goes on to explain why a NL is a good idea. (I disagree a NL on D1 is a good idea. Information is easier to get when you have at least one lynch and can analyze how people went about it). 

 

He argues with AJ about his reasons for changing his mind about Des. He says AJ doesn't know why, yet he doesn't say why himself. He says suggesting a NL is not a way to look pro-town and if that was his intent he wouldn't have done it. He says he has mixed reads on Despo. 

 

He defends Amega against AJ saying AJ is trying to paint Amega as scum without calling him scum. Therefore leaving a way to backtrack later.

 

He comments on Despo's "good catch" to the situation above and said for Des that WIFOM.

 

His next point I'll copy paste here...Pointed questioning of Amega.  The logical argument AJ makes here is solid, but Amega is more of a feel player and has never been very good at formulating airtight arguments, so combined with his earlier implication of scumminess on Amega, this just looks like more of AJ going after low-hanging fruit to save his own skin, which is at best lazy town play and at worst scum play. 

 

 

 

 

No aj ive been considering a vote on you since des started in on you. And to be clear UNVOTE VOTE AJ

 

honestly not to fond of the casing they have on kaylee. i would have asked the same thing.

 

Peace doesnt seem to ever have any in depth reads so i really kinda just disregard what he has to say for the most part.  never been a fan of town lurking.

 

So you know Peace is town then?

 

 

This is a leading question designed to imply that Amega is scum.  He associates Amega's statement with what is seen as a very strong scumtell (a priori alignment knowledge).  He doesn't outright say "I think Amega is scum" but the effect is almost as strong.  With the added benefit that should anyone call him on it, he can backtrack.  This is a scummy tactic.

 

 

 

 

No aj ive been considering a vote on you since des started in on you. And to be clear UNVOTE VOTE AJ

honestly not to fond of the casing they have on kaylee. i would have asked the same thing.

Peace doesnt seem to ever have any in depth reads so i really kinda just disregard what he has to say for the most part. never been a fan of town lurking.


So you know Peace is town then?

This looks like a good catch to me. Amega's use of meta to justify it after the fact doesn't satisfy me.

Vote Amega

Would also be willing to lynch Kaylee. Her flip flop on me and AJ does look pretty scummy.

 

 

Des drops the "good catch" sheep of a crap argument scumtell.  Given Des' meta, this is utter WIFOM.

 

 

 

I guess but they dont have to think logically at all hence the fact that they already know. im relying on the laws of probability to tell me there's more of a chance; you for example are town.Then if i feel that your game play slips i will question that. Honestly i feel as if a scum player wouldnt try to break the natural ways of playing and come off different from the group in anyway. Im willing to voice that i play differently and look at things from a different perspective, but so far ive done better than how i played in 2012


Correct me if I'm wrong here but you are basically saying you are only going to end up calling out town players based on this process. You say that you look for deviations but immediately follow that up by saying scum will try hardest to blend in with the group.

 

 

Pointed questioning of Amega.  The logical argument AJ makes here is solid, but Amega is more of a feel player and has never been very good at formulating airtight arguments, so combined with his earlier implication of scumminess on Amega, this just looks like more of AJ going after low-hanging fruit to save his own skin, which is at best lazy town play and at worst scum play.

 

 

@CS - I would appreciate if you would address my 109.

I'd be willing to lynch out of Kaylee, CS and SP atm. Amega's posts read to me as reasonable enough after he explained himself a little more but I still find his POE a little odd. The town comment on Peace could've been a slip but I don't think it's lynch worthy as of yet. CS seems to sniping and only commenting on little tidbits here and there. His vote as been parked on me as well although he has been posting but not really pushing his supposed scum read.

 

This is waffling doodoo.  Amega seems reasonable, but odd and his comment could have been a slip, but AJ doesn't think it's lynchworthy as of yet.  Seriously, could you nudge and hedge your bets on Amega any more AJ?

 

 

 

 

So, anyone else feel that Despot is off? Cause...I don't think he's town

I'd actually be more inclined to think that you are scum because of posts like this. You are very null for me atm which is troubling.

Why is a null on D1 troubling?

 

 

This is a very good question btw.  A null on D1 is not troubling at all.  It's normal.  Looks like AJ is trying to throw crap at the wall and see what sticks.

 

 

@CS - the meta is pretty spot on. Most would likely agree that a lurking CS = scum CS. I saw your comment about getting sick which is all good but for me when you are commenting on other matters instead of addressing direct posts to you and leaving your vote on me looks sketchy. Your commentary towards Amega was also a bit redundant.

@Verb - Null isn't always troubling early on but in this case I find his posts to be a little guarded. His first post asks about siggie rotations, several pages later all he wants to know is why I RVS'd him and makes a comment that he thinks Despo is off without adding any support to it.

@Wombat - I think you should double check your statement. I poked Amega a bit for the Peace comment but follow up later saying I don't think it was an actual slip on his part. He explained his thoughts behind it well enough to understand why he chose his wording IMO.

Let's do this.

Hard claim: I am Phong. Doc.

We've got about 3 more days before DL to secure a lynch so I don't want anymore time wasted on me. I think any of Kaylee, CS and wombat are good wagons. Kaylee's timing of her read change doesn't match the flow of the thread. She says her mind changed after Despo started to address other issues in regards to me but this happened prior to her saying she'd vote either of us. CS I gave thoughts on already. Wombat's OP and joining one of the lead wagons is suspect IMO. He doesn't provide any sort of analysis of his own as to why he feels anyone pushing those other players should be suspect while also saying I am only more interested in rhetoric.

 

 

Point on CS is valid, but it's D1, so I'm pretty sure we can give CS some time to settle in.  It's not like he's going to disappear.  If he doesn't pick it up, we lynch him.  Pressuring him right now is useless.

 

Response to Verb is crap.  The first post is irrelevant.  The second could be noobishness.  The third is straight up scummy.  Why AJ would get a "troubling" null read on him from those posts I have no idea.

 

Response to me is a sloppy backtrack.  AJ didn't say he didn't think Amega slipped.  He backtracked to saying that Amega's comment "could be a slip."  That prepares him to back off later on while still leaving room for a bandwagon vote should Amega's train shape up.  Opportunistic and slimy.

 

 

 

 

Seriously, if AJ hadn't claimed doc, I wouldn't be voting anyone else right now.  As it is, the only reason I'm for keeping him alive is because it puts the mafia in a bind.  They know that if a doc who isn't AJ shows up dead that AJ dies next.

 

That quote I'll grab for better understanding of what he is referencing. The bulleted points are all about the quote for the above...

 

  • Basically he thinks AJ is scum and pushing Amega whom he thinks is town. It could also be giving Amega a way out. The way he says the blue above is really defending Amega. 
  • More comments about Amega to AJ. 
  • He comments on CS saying AJ makes a valid point, but we should give him time to settle in. If he doesn't pick it up we should lynch him, but pressuring him right now is useless. (I definitely don't agree that pressuring someone is useless.)
  • Comments on Verb saying why AJ got a "troubling" null on him doesn't make sense. 
  • Calls AJ's backtrack on Amega opportunistic and slimy. 

​

Next is his number of scumminess chart which I quoted below..

Scumminess scores 0-10

 

Kaylee - 2
Wwwwombat - 0
Verbal32 - 3
Despo - 5
Cory Amegakure - 1
Hallia - 3
Peace - 4
Puppets - 5
Leelou - 4
Csarmi - 3
AJ - 7
Xthrax - 3

 

He says Amega and I are town telling all over the place and that Peace is always scummy so for now he's withholding judgment. 

 

He responds to AJ about why he doesn't like his play. He also responds to Peace's reads. He says he pushes the NL angle when he feels it's a good time to push it. He agree's with Peace about Des (Which is wait and see, use vote analysis). He comments on how claiming Doc early hurts town. He agrees with what Peace said about Hally. (I'll add that in bold): Hallia - Back to take pot shots, sheeping other people, hedging her comments.  Her last post about voting Despooey for pressure is pretty bad. Slight scum read.

 

I agree on that as well.

 

Wombat explains how a NL doesn't hurt town D1. Basically that we have the least knowledge and much to gain by waiting. (It also hurts town because other than the NK you don't have anything to base further reads. The voting pattern doesn't say as much as when you achieve a lynch. Not saying it can't be useful later, but not D1).

 

 

 

I prefer to do it late too, but nothing should ever be ruled out.  It's better to no lynch than rush a deadline lynch that gives no info.

I've included this quote because it stands out to me. This day one lynch, even if Des had turned out to be town, would've still given info because of how people voted, interactions and such. There was enough people active and commenting about something  to get information on. Seems like he really didn't want the lynch to happen. I say that because he keeps talking about the no lynch and not rushing. At the time we weren't rushing. We had competitive trains and people were still around and giving thoughts.

 

He comments about how he feels good about me and Amega and that were both coming off as town, Esp Amega. He thinks Peace is an easy target so he's skeptical about anyone pushing him without good reason. He says he's not trying to appear townie or scummy yet and he doesn't care about catching heat, just scum.

 

He explains his vote on Des is because NL isn't happening, he has misgivings about Des, and that voting him is the best move to keep the game moving in a productive direction.

 

He defends the timing of his vote on Des to AJ.

 

He says AJ's slowing things down to make a point and that's anti-town. 

 

 

 

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Verbal32 Spam Master

Verbal32

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Posted

I'll admit, that was not easy to follow.  Sometimes you quote within a box, and other times you simply type it in.  And I can't follow how the bold interacts with the rest of the post, and whether the bold is yours or originally there.

 

 

@Cloud:  Des' interaction with AJ does not clear Salami, and therefore you.  I'm not sure how you're getting to that conclusion, tbh.

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Verbal32 Spam Master

Verbal32

Posted
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Posted

 

Why are you bringing up three ongoing games that have nothing to do with this one and do it in a fashion of comparing apples to pears?

 

You would want me to talk about my motivation in other games?

 

I really don't get what you're trying to do here.

 

I'm not discussing the specifics of those games in any way, nor the game specific motivations.  I'm speaking to your typical style of play and how you're off it.

 

 

TG, you're playing against the spirit of the game. I won't be a party to it.

 

Csarmi has asked to be replaced.

 

 

 

This sucks, btw.  By taking his ball and going home, Salami has put a huge target on Cloud's back.  Having recent meta from ongoing games brought in wasn't the best idea, but the mod appropriately reprimanded.  But emo-quitting basically makes it look like Salami was caught scum and pissed that TGlems used this method to call him out.

 

So now the rest of us are stuck with either using this reasoning to lynch Cloud, or ignore it and potentially give scum a free ride as a result.

 

 

 

 

This, folks, is why you should never emo-quit a mafia game.

_CLOUD Veteran

_CLOUD

Posted
Posted

Page 7 - 9:

I got town reads on Peace and X for these two posts:

 

VOTE DESPO

Got a strong eye on one other person as well. But, Despo is the first scum.



 

VOTE DESPO

Got a strong eye on one other person as well. But, Despo is the first scum.


This is your 2nd post of the game and you start with claiming that someone is scum. Opportunistic? Seems to me like scum parroting what others have said hoping for an easy lynch on D1. Scum lean

I personally don't agree with Des's facts that a person jovial tone can be an indicator of their alignment. In my opinion, any one's jovial or bored tone needn't be an indicator of their alignment. If according to this theory that all mafia would have a jovial or excited tone, then subsequently all town would have a bored tone and thereby be uninterested in playing. Other than this he mostly gives me a null read till now.

AJ, most of your defense against Des's vote seems ok, albeit one thing. The one thing that pinged the most is you threatening Des to have him killed. Now I can look at this 2 ways-you're a vig, ergo your claim that you can kill him if he pushes your lynch. Or you're scum-this fits with your theory that you can get him killed but also supports one thing that you said. Acc. to you, even if you were lynched, you could still get him killed. If he lynches you, your scummates plot in the QT and get him for the NK. This neatly fits with what you said.
This gives me a slight scum read on you AJ.

The rest, mostly nothing has happened. Everyone is mostly giving their reads, conclusions and opinions on AJ and Des's spate.

These are the few things I wanted to comment upon while I read up. Also what's a gambit?

 

 


 

A gambit dear X is when two scum players go at each other in an attempt to distance themself from each other.

An im going to go ahead and Vote AJ

Scum read on Amega for this. After him going back and forth between AJ and Despo he finally lands on AJ but he still has to explain what he found scummy about him.
 

AJ and Kaylee are scum. The third one is likely laying low since AJ went all out and Kaylee is now having to distance from him.

Ok so Kaylee is your teammate. Good to know.
 

After going back through your posts, I think you got a little over-defensive with your threatening to kill Des for going after you. Des loves to get reactions and you gave him one. As to whether I think your scum or roled town, I'm starting to lean scum from Kaylee's posts.
…
unvote, vote Kaylee

Yay Leelou! I almost can’t believe that I actually pegged her as town with my first post.
 
 

Des: I wasn't changing my story on why, I just phrased it wrong. I meant that was another reason why.

Verbal gave no reasoning for suspecting it to be a gambit so you have either failed to read the same post properly multiple times or are lying. I know that you are an intelligent person so I’m going with the second one.
 

AJ's switch off Des after seeming so sure before, referring to the threats, seems odd.


Unvote Vote AJ


With this vote Kaylee made sure that AJ became the leading train after he was even with Despo in the number of votes.

 

 

VOTE DESPO

Got a strong eye on one other person as well. But, Despo is the first scum.


Care to say who else?

 


Funny you should say this...cause you are the other one. In fact, you have take the lead spot UNVOTE VOTE KAYLEE

 

You are on a roll this game :D
 

Leelou: I wasn't setting up to switch, art the time it felt like a gambit meaning I thought they were both likely scum. As for do I still think that...I'm not as sure. I'm undecided about Des but still feel AJ isn't town and that's why I switched my vote.

And you still give no reasoning what causes your uncertain read on Des. SMH.

 

@ Kay - What made you change your mind about Des? What about us both originally did you think made us both scum pulling a gambit?

As far as the gambit the back and forth you both had going felt more like teammates distancing. It felt forced. That's the best I can explain it.

As far as Des goes I typically have a hard time reading him. He started off with weak reasons for his case. (The jovial thing). Since then he's been making more valid points and I'm not sure about him now.

 

I’m not really satisfied with this explanation tbh. Saying that it felt forced and that his weak reasons, which you only gave the joval thing as an example despite not mentioning this anywhere else and even saying that Hallia’s reads were bad who was one of the first to mention it, have changed to more valid points isn’t going to cut it.

On my phone right now and getting ready to leave but I'll try to paraphrase what I mean.

Des switched his argument to focusing on what you were saying, your defense. He mentioned your comments on killing him. Then he addressed a few others me included.

AJ: no I didn't have or don't have a guilty conscious, as I have nothing to be guilty over/about. I was asking Peace because he hadn't said much by that point. I was wondering if he planned on voicing his other suspect or if he was just going to leave that open. If he didn't say who then I was going to ask why mention it if he hadn't planned on elaborating.


Kay overexplaining that she doesn't have a guilty consciousness is pinging a little, but more importantly the way she chose to defend herself from AJ's attack on her regarding Peace was by explaining it as asking Peace for his other suspects. Why would he need to have other suspects at this stage of the game? Do you expect everyone to have multiple scum reads by now? I don't believe you actually think this.
 

No aj ive been considering a vote on you since des started in on you. And to be clear UNVOTE VOTE AJ

honestly not to fond of the casing they have on kaylee. i would have asked the same thing.

Peace doesnt seem to ever have any in depth reads so i really kinda just disregard what he has to say for the most part. never been a fan of town lurking.


Note how Amega is defending Kay. The scum slip that AJ pointed out is also a big deal. His explanation for calling Peace a town lurker also doesn’t make sense because he starts talking about his meta and that it’s a thing he always does which is is exactly the point AJ is bringing up. Peace does that as either alignment and you apparently know this as well so why did you then call him a town lurker?
 

kaylee i think seems pretty towny at the moment i think have the same feel for you as well leelou. I go with a gut read on alot of stuff i cant alway put into words like in the last game i had one about you. but your game play was rather good. This game i feel no vibes from it besides possibe town.

You can also explain gut reads you know. And why are you reading AJ as town while you are voting for him over Despo after going on and on how it could be a gambit?
 

Still catching up but apparently AJ bleeds burnt orange so he's obviously not scum.

Unvote

:tongue:


LAME. I can’t believe you actually managed to crawl away from your case on AJ by using a football joke :dry: What happened to your scum read on Kay?

_CLOUD Veteran

_CLOUD

Posted
Posted

 

 

No aj ive been considering a vote on you since des started in on you. And to be clear UNVOTE VOTE AJ

 

honestly not to fond of the casing they have on kaylee. i would have asked the same thing.

 

Peace doesnt seem to ever have any in depth reads so i really kinda just disregard what he has to say for the most part. never been a fan of town lurking.

So you know Peace is town then?

 

This looks like a good catch to me. Amega's use of meta to justify it after the fact doesn't satisfy me.

 

Vote Amega

 

Would also be willing to lynch Kaylee. Her flip flop on me and AJ does look pretty scummy.

 

Ok this post from Despo is actually starting to make me doubt my scum reads on Kaylee and Amega. Bussing is one thing, but stating both of your teammates as your only scum reads? That’s a way too risky move for Despo to make and I don’t see how it could profit him.

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