[Basic] Reboot Mafia Game MAFIA WINS

[amegakure]

idk about that.. (if you hadnt claimed doc which im not sure i believe yet.).. .id still have my vote on you to. and going for a no lynch isnt a reason to lynch wombat. especially if thats the scummiest thing on the field for them. now you feel scummy maybe that your style but despo is pretty much the nxt best choice and his flip might say a few things about you as well and quite a few others. Id like to see some people throw some thoughts around.. like verbal and x.. and SP no need for lurking guys.

[amegakure]

idk about that.. (if you hadnt claimed doc which im not sure i believe yet.).. .id still have my vote on you to. and going for a no lynch isnt a reason to lynch wombat. especially if thats the scummiest thing on the field for them. now you feel scummy maybe that your style but despo is pretty much the nxt best choice and his flip might say a few things about you as well and quite a few others. Id like to see some people throw some thoughts around.. like verbal and x.. and SP no need for lurking guys.

[peacesells]

Some reads before work.  (btw..when stuck on day shift my activity typically sux.  It will pick up this weekend.)

 

Wombat - He hasn't pushed the no lynch angle for quite awhile.   A bit strange that he is picking this game to bring it back up.  Could be a meta hide. AJ pointed out his contradiction on anyone pushing against Kaylee or me.  I'd like to here an answer to that. 

 

Kaylee - Still a scum read from her.

 

Despo - Wait and see with him.  He has really been pushing his meta of thin reasonings in all games lately.  I'll need some vote analysis on him to mix in with his posts to read him.

 

Amega -  A bit of a contradiction.  Really doesn't like how little I've posted but then says he plays completely by gut...which is another way to hide ones alignment.

 

AJ -  Very eager for a DOC...but unlike Wombat, I can see playing that way.  It's basically a get out of jail free card that allows you to go all willy nilly cause you can always claim doc and save your self.  And then protect yourself at night.  I've done it to try and throw the scum team off before.

 

Csarmi - this has become his meta of late.  not really participating.  A man of extremes.  Had some criticism of his style before so he's going to the opposite end of the spectrum.  Maybe he can find a balance somewhere.  Null read at this point.

 

Hallia - Back to take pot shots, sheeping other people, hedging her comments.  Her last post about voting Despooey for pressure is pretty bad. Slight scum read.

 

Verbal - Scummy, just gotta trust me on that.  I've gotten pretty comfortable on my Verbal reads as of late. 

 

 

Thats all the time I have for now before heading to work.

[Xthrax]

Sorry for not being that active, was kinda busy. But I was still reading from my phone, so I'll go skim through everyone's post just before giving my reads. 

 

Just one thing though

 

 

Some reads before work.  (btw..when stuck on day shift my activity typically sux.  It will pick up this weekend.)

 

Wombat - He hasn't pushed the no lynch angle for quite awhile.   A bit strange that he is picking this game to bring it back up.  Could be a meta hide. AJ pointed out his contradiction on anyone pushing against Kaylee or me.  I'd like to here an answer to that. 

 

Kaylee - Still a scum read from her.

 

Despo - Wait and see with him.  He has really been pushing his meta of thin reasonings in all games lately.  I'll need some vote analysis on him to mix in with his posts to read him.

 

Amega -  A bit of a contradiction.  Really doesn't like how little I've posted but then says he plays completely by gut...which is another way to hide ones alignment.

 

AJ -  Very eager for a DOC...but unlike Wombat, I can see playing that way.  It's basically a get out of jail free card that allows you to go all willy nilly cause you can always claim doc and save your self.  And then protect yourself at night.  I've done it to try and throw the scum team off before.

 

Csarmi - this has become his meta of late.  not really participating.  A man of extremes.  Had some criticism of his style before so he's going to the opposite end of the spectrum.  Maybe he can find a balance somewhere.  Null read at this point.

 

Hallia - Back to take pot shots, sheeping other people, hedging her comments.  Her last post about voting Despooey for pressure is pretty bad. Slight scum read.

 

Verbal - Scummy, just gotta trust me on that.  I've gotten pretty comfortable on my Verbal reads as of late. 

 

 

Thats all the time I have for now before heading to work.

 

 

You've got comfortable on your Verbal reads of late, so you find him scummy. Can't really make out anything from that-right now you're just assuming his alignment, which really gives the impression that you know of it. Care to explain, Peace?

[Verbal32]

He's full of sh** - that's the explanation.  When he's been the most against me recently, it has been when I'm town.  Then when I'm scum, he says he called it.  But he says I'm scummy every game.  Kinda easy to give yourself hindsight credit, lol.

 

unvote
 
Vote: No Lynch
 
 
 
Feeling better about Des after reread.  We have 12 players in the game.  Mafia is obviously Megabyte, Hack, and Slash imo.  Hex may be in the game as SK or may not.  If not, no lynch is a good move here.  Even number of players favors scum, so if we NL and scum kills, we've actually forced them to give us info without disadvantaging ourselves much.
 
If Hex is an SK, then at least we'll know it when we make our decision tomorrow.

 

Duuuuuude, no way is a NL good for D1.  You'll need to state your case on this a little better.  How does even numbers favor scum when 12 players are alive?

 

 

 

 

 

No aj ive been considering a vote on you since des started in on you. And to be clear UNVOTE VOTE AJ
 
honestly not to fond of the casing they have on kaylee. i would have asked the same thing.
 
Peace doesnt seem to ever have any in depth reads so i really kinda just disregard what he has to say for the most part.  never been a fan of town lurking.

 
So you know Peace is town then?

 

 
This is a leading question designed to imply that Amega is scum.  He associates Amega's statement with what is seen as a very strong scumtell (a priori alignment knowledge).  He doesn't outright say "I think Amega is scum" but the effect is almost as strong.  With the added benefit that should anyone call him on it, he can backtrack.  This is a scummy tactic.
 
 

 

 

No aj ive been considering a vote on you since des started in on you. And to be clear UNVOTE VOTE AJ

honestly not to fond of the casing they have on kaylee. i would have asked the same thing.

Peace doesnt seem to ever have any in depth reads so i really kinda just disregard what he has to say for the most part. never been a fan of town lurking.

So you know Peace is town then?

 

This looks like a good catch to me. Amega's use of meta to justify it after the fact doesn't satisfy me.

Vote Amega

Would also be willing to lynch Kaylee. Her flip flop on me and AJ does look pretty scummy.

 

 
Des drops the "good catch" sheep of a crap argument scumtell.  Given Des' meta, this is utter WIFOM.
 
 

 

I guess but they dont have to think logically at all hence the fact that they already know. im relying on the laws of probability to tell me there's more of a chance; you for example are town.Then if i feel that your game play slips i will question that. Honestly i feel as if a scum player wouldnt try to break the natural ways of playing and come off different from the group in anyway. Im willing to voice that i play differently and look at things from a different perspective, but so far ive done better than how i played in 2012

Correct me if I'm wrong here but you are basically saying you are only going to end up calling out town players based on this process. You say that you look for deviations but immediately follow that up by saying scum will try hardest to blend in with the group.

 

 
Pointed questioning of Amega.  The logical argument AJ makes here is solid, but Amega is more of a feel player and has never been very good at formulating airtight arguments, so combined with his earlier implication of scumminess on Amega, this just looks like more of AJ going after low-hanging fruit to save his own skin, which is at best lazy town play and at worst scum play.
 
 

@CS - I would appreciate if you would address my 109.

I'd be willing to lynch out of Kaylee, CS and SP atm. Amega's posts read to me as reasonable enough after he explained himself a little more but I still find his POE a little odd. The town comment on Peace could've been a slip but I don't think it's lynch worthy as of yet. CS seems to sniping and only commenting on little tidbits here and there. His vote as been parked on me as well although he has been posting but not really pushing his supposed scum read.

 
This is waffling doodoo.  Amega seems reasonable, but odd and his comment could have been a slip, but AJ doesn't think it's lynchworthy as of yet.  Seriously, could you nudge and hedge your bets on Amega any more AJ?
 
 

 

 

So, anyone else feel that Despot is off? Cause...I don't think he's town

I'd actually be more inclined to think that you are scum because of posts like this. You are very null for me atm which is troubling.

 

Why is a null on D1 troubling?

 

 
This is a very good question btw.  A null on D1 is not troubling at all.  It's normal.  Looks like AJ is trying to throw crap at the wall and see what sticks.
 
 

@CS - the meta is pretty spot on. Most would likely agree that a lurking CS = scum CS. I saw your comment about getting sick which is all good but for me when you are commenting on other matters instead of addressing direct posts to you and leaving your vote on me looks sketchy. Your commentary towards Amega was also a bit redundant.

@Verb - Null isn't always troubling early on but in this case I find his posts to be a little guarded. His first post asks about siggie rotations, several pages later all he wants to know is why I RVS'd him and makes a comment that he thinks Despo is off without adding any support to it.

@Wombat - I think you should double check your statement. I poked Amega a bit for the Peace comment but follow up later saying I don't think it was an actual slip on his part. He explained his thoughts behind it well enough to understand why he chose his wording IMO.

Let's do this.

Hard claim: I am Phong. Doc.

We've got about 3 more days before DL to secure a lynch so I don't want anymore time wasted on me. I think any of Kaylee, CS and wombat are good wagons. Kaylee's timing of her read change doesn't match the flow of the thread. She says her mind changed after Despo started to address other issues in regards to me but this happened prior to her saying she'd vote either of us. CS I gave thoughts on already. Wombat's OP and joining one of the lead wagons is suspect IMO. He doesn't provide any sort of analysis of his own as to why he feels anyone pushing those other players should be suspect while also saying I am only more interested in rhetoric.

 
 
Point on CS is valid, but it's D1, so I'm pretty sure we can give CS some time to settle in.  It's not like he's going to disappear.  If he doesn't pick it up, we lynch him.  Pressuring him right now is useless.
 
Response to Verb is crap.  The first post is irrelevant.  The second could be noobishness.  The third is straight up scummy.  Why AJ would get a "troubling" null read on him from those posts I have no idea.
 
Response to me is a sloppy backtrack.  AJ didn't say he didn't think Amega slipped.  He backtracked to saying that Amega's comment "could be a slip."  That prepares him to back off later on while still leaving room for a bandwagon vote should Amega's train shape up.  Opportunistic and slimy.
 
 
 
 
Seriously, if AJ hadn't claimed doc, I wouldn't be voting anyone else right now.  As it is, the only reason I'm for keeping him alive is because it puts the mafia in a bind.  They know that if a doc who isn't AJ shows up dead that AJ dies next.

 

 

Agreed.  You like to call out distancing and wording snafus a lot when scum, though, so I'll take what you give with a grain bucket of salt.  :-)

 

 

 

1. Please do.

2. Your idea of how someone should play holds no bearing on me. So again, get over yourself. There is no hand-written book somewhere of how mafia should be played as a certain role or alignment. I play how I play and generally think that I am an asset to my team. I reacted badly to Despo's original vote on me and am working to shed the negative light that put on me. You made me the lead wagon with about 48 hours to go until DL so I felt it appropriate to claim so we could focus elsewhere. You can say that my focus on you is OMGUS but generally I have an easier time discerning a player's motivation when the interaction is with me directly. Different play styles. You don't have to like it but that doesn't mean that I am terrible by any means.

3. That wasting of time as you say is me analyzing your post, which you say I have not been doing. As I already explained I don't find your shift to be congruent with your OP considering you would've had to read the thread to begin with in order to draw that conclusion. I am allowed to speculate since you neglected to clarify and the conclusion I came to makes me suspious. I don't understand how you started out with AJ and Despo are over distancing and teaming up on Amega to you feeling better about him. I never said 'his reason is this' I am pointing out that I don't think it adds up. So please, feel free to clarify so that it's understood why you changed your opinion.

4. That's fine. I still think it was scummy of you to suggest instead of trying to find a different lynch candidate, especially after accusing others of not analyzing. I'm sure it's not beyond you to think of how a NL on D1 wouldn't be of real benefit. For one you are relying too much on the assumption that mafia will actually NK.

 

This is the kind of post that would have saved you from needing to reveal, btw.

[Leelou]

Csarmi - this has become his meta of late.  not really participating.  A man of extremes.  Had some criticism of his style before so he's going to the opposite end of the spectrum.  Maybe he can find a balance somewhere.  Null read at this point.

 

I don't trust him. He hides more as scum and is more out in front as town. 

[WWWwombat]

I didn't contradict myself at all.  Just because I say that a certain action is suspect doesn't mean I need to push everyone who does it.  Kaylee and Amega are towntelling all over the place and Peace is always pretty scummy so for now I'm withholding judgment.

[Verbal32]

I didn't contradict myself at all.  Just because I say that a certain action is suspect doesn't mean I need to push everyone who does it.  Kaylee and Amega are towntelling all over the place and Peace is always pretty scummy so for now I'm withholding judgment.

 

Can you answer my question about the 12 alive NL not hurting town please?

[WWWwombat]

2. Your idea of how someone should play holds no bearing on me. So again, get over yourself. There is no hand-written book somewhere of how mafia should be played as a certain role or alignment. I play how I play and generally think that I am an asset to my team. I reacted badly to Despo's original vote on me and am working to shed the negative light that put on me. You made me the lead wagon with about 48 hours to go until DL so I felt it appropriate to claim so we could focus elsewhere. You can say that my focus on you is OMGUS but generally I have an easier time discerning a player's motivation when the interaction is with me directly. Different play styles. You don't have to like it but that doesn't mean that I am terrible by any means.

 

 

You can say that all you want.  Doesn't make it true.  I'm very accepting of differing playstyles as long as they work.  Look at the results of your play thus far.  You have distorted much of the D1 action to focus on you so that you can use OMGUS as a crutch to avoid actual scumhunting.  And if you are actually town, you have outed the town doc on D1 with your reckless play.  This is anti-town no matter how you slice it.

 

 

 

Some reads before work.  (btw..when stuck on day shift my activity typically sux.  It will pick up this weekend.)

 

Wombat - He hasn't pushed the no lynch angle for quite awhile.   A bit strange that he is picking this game to bring it back up.  Could be a meta hide. AJ pointed out his contradiction on anyone pushing against Kaylee or me.  I'd like to here an answer to that. 

 

Kaylee - Still a scum read from her.

 

Despo - Wait and see with him.  He has really been pushing his meta of thin reasonings in all games lately.  I'll need some vote analysis on him to mix in with his posts to read him.

 

Amega -  A bit of a contradiction.  Really doesn't like how little I've posted but then says he plays completely by gut...which is another way to hide ones alignment.

 

AJ -  Very eager for a DOC...but unlike Wombat, I can see playing that way.  It's basically a get out of jail free card that allows you to go all willy nilly cause you can always claim doc and save your self.  And then protect yourself at night.  I've done it to try and throw the scum team off before.

 

Csarmi - this has become his meta of late.  not really participating.  A man of extremes.  Had some criticism of his style before so he's going to the opposite end of the spectrum.  Maybe he can find a balance somewhere.  Null read at this point.

 

Hallia - Back to take pot shots, sheeping other people, hedging her comments.  Her last post about voting Despooey for pressure is pretty bad. Slight scum read.

 

Verbal - Scummy, just gotta trust me on that.  I've gotten pretty comfortable on my Verbal reads as of late. 

 

 

Thats all the time I have for now before heading to work.

 

 

I push the no lynch angle when I feel it's a good time to push it.  I haven't played in a while so maybe that's why you don't remember it lately, but I do it fairly regularly.

 

I agree on Des.

 

Playing Doc the way you described is anti-town and selfish.  Getting outed and having to self-protect from then on hurts the town a ton.

 

Agree on Hallia.  Not sure on Verb yet.

[Verbal32]

 

2. Your idea of how someone should play holds no bearing on me. So again, get over yourself. There is no hand-written book somewhere of how mafia should be played as a certain role or alignment. I play how I play and generally think that I am an asset to my team. I reacted badly to Despo's original vote on me and am working to shed the negative light that put on me. You made me the lead wagon with about 48 hours to go until DL so I felt it appropriate to claim so we could focus elsewhere. You can say that my focus on you is OMGUS but generally I have an easier time discerning a player's motivation when the interaction is with me directly. Different play styles. You don't have to like it but that doesn't mean that I am terrible by any means.

 

 

You can say that all you want.  Doesn't make it true.  I'm very accepting of differing playstyles as long as they work.  Look at the results of your play thus far.  You have distorted much of the D1 action to focus on you so that you can use OMGUS as a crutch to avoid actual scumhunting.  And if you are actually town, you have outed the town doc on D1 with your reckless play.  This is anti-town no matter how you slice it.

 

 

 

Some reads before work.  (btw..when stuck on day shift my activity typically sux.  It will pick up this weekend.)

 

Wombat - He hasn't pushed the no lynch angle for quite awhile.   A bit strange that he is picking this game to bring it back up.  Could be a meta hide. AJ pointed out his contradiction on anyone pushing against Kaylee or me.  I'd like to here an answer to that. 

 

Kaylee - Still a scum read from her.

 

Despo - Wait and see with him.  He has really been pushing his meta of thin reasonings in all games lately.  I'll need some vote analysis on him to mix in with his posts to read him.

 

Amega -  A bit of a contradiction.  Really doesn't like how little I've posted but then says he plays completely by gut...which is another way to hide ones alignment.

 

AJ -  Very eager for a DOC...but unlike Wombat, I can see playing that way.  It's basically a get out of jail free card that allows you to go all willy nilly cause you can always claim doc and save your self.  And then protect yourself at night.  I've done it to try and throw the scum team off before.

 

Csarmi - this has become his meta of late.  not really participating.  A man of extremes.  Had some criticism of his style before so he's going to the opposite end of the spectrum.  Maybe he can find a balance somewhere.  Null read at this point.

 

Hallia - Back to take pot shots, sheeping other people, hedging her comments.  Her last post about voting Despooey for pressure is pretty bad. Slight scum read.

 

Verbal - Scummy, just gotta trust me on that.  I've gotten pretty comfortable on my Verbal reads as of late. 

 

 

Thats all the time I have for now before heading to work.

 

 

I push the no lynch angle when I feel it's a good time to push it.  I haven't played in a while so maybe that's why you don't remember it lately, but I do it fairly regularly.

 

I agree on Des.

 

Playing Doc the way you described is anti-town and selfish.  Getting outed and having to self-protect from then on hurts the town a ton.

 

Agree on Hallia.  Not sure on Verb yet.

 

 

Much to my chagrin.  You and Lanth push that angle more than any other 2 players I've ever played with.

[peacesells]

Verbal..I guess i can go find the scum link where you state yourself that I have a good read on you. 

[peacesells]

Verbal..I guess i can go find the scum link where you state yourself that I have a good read on you. 

 

And I only make that statment cause it contradicts your post stating I'm always wrong about you.

[WWWwombat]

 

I didn't contradict myself at all.  Just because I say that a certain action is suspect doesn't mean I need to push everyone who does it.  Kaylee and Amega are towntelling all over the place and Peace is always pretty scummy so for now I'm withholding judgment.

 

Can you answer my question about the 12 alive NL not hurting town please?

 

 

 

Sure.  Assuming 9 town, 3 mafia, and 1 kill per night, that means we have 2 mislynches.  If we mislynch twice, we are down to 5 town, 3 mafia.  At that point, a mislynch ends the game.  It would be preferable to go to 4 town, 3 mafia before lynching, taking us from MyLo to LyLo.  In other words, no lynching at some point will probably be advantageous.  It doesn't have to be D1, but we have the least info on D1 and therefore much to gain by waiting.

[WWWwombat]

 

Much to my chagrin.  You and Lanth push that angle more than any other 2 players I've ever played with.

 

 

That's cuz Lanth is awesome.

[Leelou]

 

 

Much to my chagrin.  You and Lanth push that angle more than any other 2 players I've ever played with.

 

 

That's cuz Lanth is awesome.

 

 

Why do we need a no lynch D1? 

[peacesells]

 

 

I didn't contradict myself at all.  Just because I say that a certain action is suspect doesn't mean I need to push everyone who does it.  Kaylee and Amega are towntelling all over the place and Peace is always pretty scummy so for now I'm withholding judgment.

 

Can you answer my question about the 12 alive NL not hurting town please?

 

 

 

Sure.  Assuming 9 town, 3 mafia, and 1 kill per night, that means we have 2 mislynches.  If we mislynch twice, we are down to 5 town, 3 mafia.  At that point, a mislynch ends the game.  It would be preferable to go to 4 town, 3 mafia before lynching, taking us from MyLo to LyLo.  In other words, no lynching at some point will probably be advantageous.  It doesn't have to be D1, but we have the least info on D1 and therefore much to gain by waiting.

 

 

I think Darthe had a link to this a couple games ago.

[WWWwombat]

Anyway, time to put my vote somewhere useful.

 

unvote

Vote: Des

[WWWwombat]

 

 

 

Much to my chagrin.  You and Lanth push that angle more than any other 2 players I've ever played with.

 

 

That's cuz Lanth is awesome.

 

 

Why do we need a no lynch D1? 

 

 

We don't need it, but neither should it be dismissed out of hand.

[WolfbrotherKronos]

Vote Count

Kaylee (2) - Leelou, Peace
Amega (2) - Despo, Verbal

Wombat (1) AJ

Des (4) - Ame, Kaylee, Hallia, Wombat

Not Voting:, Puppets, Xthrax, Csarmi

With 12 Alive it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is set for Thursday, Feb. 20th at 9:00 AM CST

Deadline Link

[Verbal32]

Verbal..I guess i can go find the scum link where you state yourself that I have a good read on you. 

 

All part of me blowing sunshine up your @$$ to make you feel good.  I've been doing it for years - I like having you alive when I'm scum.  Smokescreen and all.

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't contradict myself at all.  Just because I say that a certain action is suspect doesn't mean I need to push everyone who does it.  Kaylee and Amega are towntelling all over the place and Peace is always pretty scummy so for now I'm withholding judgment.

 

Can you answer my question about the 12 alive NL not hurting town please?

 

 

 

Sure.  Assuming 9 town, 3 mafia, and 1 kill per night, that means we have 2 mislynches.  If we mislynch twice, we are down to 5 town, 3 mafia.  At that point, a mislynch ends the game.  It would be preferable to go to 4 town, 3 mafia before lynching, taking us from MyLo to LyLo.  In other words, no lynching at some point will probably be advantageous.  It doesn't have to be D1, but we have the least info on D1 and therefore much to gain by waiting.

 

 

I'd rather wait until we have no other choice, and when we force scum to potentially NK somebody who was a bubble lynch, making town's job easier for the final day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't contradict myself at all.  Just because I say that a certain action is suspect doesn't mean I need to push everyone who does it.  Kaylee and Amega are towntelling all over the place and Peace is always pretty scummy so for now I'm withholding judgment.

 

Can you answer my question about the 12 alive NL not hurting town please?

 

 

 

Sure.  Assuming 9 town, 3 mafia, and 1 kill per night, that means we have 2 mislynches.  If we mislynch twice, we are down to 5 town, 3 mafia.  At that point, a mislynch ends the game.  It would be preferable to go to 4 town, 3 mafia before lynching, taking us from MyLo to LyLo.  In other words, no lynching at some point will probably be advantageous.  It doesn't have to be D1, but we have the least info on D1 and therefore much to gain by waiting.

 

 

I think Darthe had a link to this a couple games ago.

 

 

It is popular on the 2+2 forums where he and I played in the prior Champions games - they like to do it late, though - never on D1.  I don't disagree with the approach, but I do with it being applied on D1.

[Kaylee]

I agree that waiting is better for a NL.

[WolfbrotherKronos]

Less than 24 hours to deadline!!!!

[WWWwombat]

I prefer to do it late too, but nothing should ever be ruled out.  It's better to no lynch than rush a deadline lynch that gives no info.

[Xthrax]

Ok the reads on everyone, post by post so gonna be rather huge-

 

Kaylee-

To me it feels like distancing between Des and AJ. The threats on AJ's part seems overdone for so early in the game. His adding Leelou as suspect after Des mentions her is interesting.

This I agree with. AJ's seems to be hyped up over nothing. Compared to his later posts, he should've just stuck to clear reasoning, than threats. 

 

Vote Des

Why vote Des? To get a train started there with a second vote instead of putting AJ at 4 votes. I can switch my vote to AJ if need be.

This was a clear set up for a switch-Seems like the post you can always refer back to saying; 'I never fixed upon anyone, always willing to switch'. Looks like a sure fire fall back post in case of suspicion.

 

 

@Des: I disagree with your statement of calling potential gambit being a scumtell. Nothing wrong if a townie wants to mention that as an FYI and a statement on how they are viewing the situation.

Ugh, lulz phase was too quick! I'm scumhunting already?! What is this nonsense?!?!

The bold is part of what makes me think they are pulling a gambit.

 

What in the bolded part made you think it was really a gambit?

 

 

 

Vote Des
Why vote Des? To get a train started there with a second vote instead of putting AJ at 4 votes. I can switch my vote to AJ if need be.

So do you think AJ and Des are scum? Because right now you are following AJ onto Des and threw in some I can switch distancing in there.

Yes, as I explained I think they're running a gambit.

I'm not following AJ, just creating competitive trains because I think it's likey they're both scum. That's also why um willing to switch my vote.

 

 

If you thought both were scum, you could've voted for AJ and still followed this line of reasoning. But you're going with AJ.

AJ's switch off Des after seeming so sure before, referring to the threats, seems odd.


Unvote Vote AJ

And a switch to AJ. You had said both seemed scummy to you. And if you thought both were scum, you could've still kept your vote on Des. Distancing from AJ seems likely.

 

I originally thought if they were both scum then we should have competitive trains on them...now I feel AJ is scum and I'm not sure about Des.

 

How come?

 

@ Kay - What made you change your mind about Des? What about us both originally did you think made us both scum pulling a gambit?

As far as the gambit the back and forth you both had going felt more like teammates distancing. It felt forced. That's the best I can explain it.

As far as Des goes I typically have a hard time reading him. He started off with weak reasons for his case. (The jovial thing). Since then he's been making more valid points and I'm not sure about him now.

 

You just said in you post above that you thought Des is unsure but then you state that they feel like teammates? So do you or do you not feel sure about him?

 

On my phone right now and getting ready to leave but I'll try to paraphrase what I mean.

Des switched his argument to focusing on what you were saying, your defense. He mentioned your comments on killing him. Then he addressed a few others me included.

AJ: no I didn't have or don't have a guilty conscious, as I have nothing to be guilty over/about. I was asking Peace because he hadn't said much by that point. I was wondering if he planned on voicing his other suspect or if he was just going to leave that open. If he didn't say who then I was going to ask why mention it if he hadn't planned on elaborating.

Defensive?

 

The reason I'm not sure about your claim is your play hasn't come across as town to me.

 

His claim hadn't been CC'ed. So why would you suspect a claimed Doc?

 

Sure I can remember. You also haven't been very specific and have changed up your story multiple times.

First you thought Des and I are both scum because the interaction seems forced therefore we are gambiting. Then you are no longer sure of Des but still think I am scum. I have already pointed out how your timing doesn't align. Allowing the fact that you reread and have came to a different conclusion is fine. But I have asked for examples about what Despo said in order to change your read that you haven't been able to provide. You say that I am scummy because my opinion changed due to a meta read but you aren't guilty of this for reasons that you haven't provided other than to say you have trouble reading him?

 

Bold: Didn't Leelou say the same thing...about me being vague? I said anyone that wants more explanation should ask and I'd do so to be best of my ability. Also, I have explained things and have been specific. I just haven't multi-quoted since I primarily can't get on a computer and post from my phone. 

 

Blue: I'll explain how this is wrong as I address things below...

 

Purple: Not being sure of Des isn't changing my story. Just means I see a possibility of him being town, but still can see him as scum...hence the not sure. As for the timing...that comes from me being online and checking when I can. As I said, I looked at what he was saying and decided he could be town but am undecided/unsure on him.

 

Green: That's bull. I said I couldn't quote it atm but I paraphrased what I was referring to.

 

Orange: No you misunderstand me. I have provided other reasons other than I have a hard time reading him. That's not meta, this particular game I'm having a hard time reading him. I said why as well just didn't quote as I wasn't able to at the time. My reasoning for being unsure of Des is partly meta, partly gameplay. For me it's being unsure. You changed your mind entirely based on meta. That's not the same thing. It's similar yes, and had I changed a view just off meta I'd expect to be looked at.

 

 

 

 

Don't know that I buy your claim. My reads change as I read and rethink things. Also I thought we weren't allowed to claim character or roles...

 

 

The reason I'm not sure about your claim is your play hasn't come across as town to me.

 

 

Regardless of the above, we aren't lynching an uncountered Doc claim on D1.

 

Didn't say we should, just that I was going to go back and look for the reasons that he asked for.

 

 

Now that I've addressed that I'll go back and look at quotes for Des and AJ. 

 

Also I'll Unvote for now and see what I think after I get those quotes. I won't lynch an uncc'd Doc, even one that I'm not sure I believe.

 

 

 

[Xthrax]

Ok, I'm gonna have to break this up into lot of posts. Part 2-

 

These are the quotes that make me think Des could be town and make me unsure about him...

 

 

 

If they were legit scumtells I don't think you'd have an issue pointing them out directly. Also your point is bad because you haven't actually pointed out any specific about me. You can continue throwing blanket statements around but you haven't actually said anything whatsoever. I'm attempting to give you some leeway here. What exactly do you think is scummy? If it's my jokey tone than I think you should hush and sit back a bit until everyone checks in. Like I said, your analysis is faulty or you are scum. That's the bottom line.

You are digging your own grave btw. I'm not trying to scare you off my lynch but you are you wastig your time. Call it conf-bias but I know I am town and therefore suspicious of those who attack me considering I don't feel your vote is warranted.

In other words, come at me bro. You will die regardless of your alignment so choose wisely.

 

Bold: I have pointed out directly EVERY scumtell I've called out. Are you just not paying attention or something dude? Only think I can think of is that this was the alkeyhawl talking at this point.

 

Italics: Uh yeah dude I'm not just going to sit back and wait for someone to claim scum or something. That's not my style. If I see something that looks off to me, even something minor, I'm going to point it out. All it sounds like is you trying to bully me away from voting or pressuring you. And that tactic just won't work.

 

Also, don't tell me to hush. That's incredibly patronizing and rude. I don't care if you're mad that I soulread you as scum so easily, but you really shouldn't have to resort to those type of tactics to defend yourself.

 

Underlined: Lol you just keep slipping and sliding don't you. For future reference, threatening to have your team kill me is NOT a good way to convince me you're town roflmao

 

 

FTR, I am not attempting to lead. But I am town. You can try to come at me but in the end I will crush you.

Your choice.

 

Bahahaha moar threats! I love it!

 

Really is just an insane overreaction to my single vote on you AJ. You attempting to bully me away from voting you has completely exposed you. I can only imagine how mad your teammates are in yall's QT lol.

 

His vote and logic are both convoluted.

 

How exactly can a vote be convoluted? I seriously want to know, I've been trying to think of a way for a few minutes and I got nothing.

 

And how is my logic convoluted? I didn't go through some incredibly lengthy prose involving several leaps in logic to describe why you seemed scummy, I pointed out simple things which are pretty clear to see and you went off the deep end.

 

I'll withhold judgement until you have legitimate time to present your case. Until then though my vote stays on you. Make sure your points are clear as to your POV or else I will consider them fake. If you have legitimate questions for me thus far ( which I doibt you have) I will answer them. If not the only real reason I can formulate is that you are scum and in that case I will devote my time in ensuring you are killed.

Get @ me bro.

 

Yet another threat lololololol. I won't even buy a Vig claim btw at this point cause you don't even act like you'd have to be alive to kill me. "Ensuring you are killed" makes it sound like if I do succeed at lynching you you'll just have your team NK me. Funny thing is, this isn't even the first time that it's been implied you could have me killed even if you were lynched.

 

I really don't get why you thought it was a good idea to issue these threats, veiled or otherwise. If you have your team NK me after I drive your lynch, so be it. I'm overextended right now in mafia games as it is, and I'll have done my job by catching at least one scummer. So go ahead. Do me a favor.

 

 

As far as I'm concerned these people should be considered scum until otherwise proven: Despo, Verb, Wombat, Leelou & SP.

I don't know SP's meta so he is on list just cause. If Verb does anything but fluff until later Day phases he is scum. Wombat is good and should only be taken at face value rheotoic wise until voting patterns can be discerned. If Leelou makes a reads list that doesn't add up she is scum. Look for inconsistencies in her logic. Despo is purely conf-bias at this point because I know my alignment. He is awfully stubborn as town so if he is pushed off his cases easily this is an indicator.

Would be fine latching any of these just cause it's D1. Reads are subject to change.

Hallia will fluff as either alignment. CS will lay low as scum. Peace is solid town but obvscum. Watch him.

 

Nice job acting like you're actually doing #work instead of just bullying me away from voting you hehe.

 

But all you're really doing here is summarizing people's metas. That's not even directly relevant to THIS game, so really this just looks like fake scumhunting to me.

 

Tbh AJ, even after seeing you as scum in my CWAJGA game, I'm really surprised to see you expose yourself this easily. I always reach with my first cases, but when they actually hit scum it just makes me wanna dance!

 

 

A wise man told me everyone should be considered scum until proven otherwise.

 

Who told you that? I feel like I've heard Turin say something like that before, but I'm sure some older vet has prob said similar before.

 

Anyways, I do agree with that statement, altho I will say the LOCK CLEAR thing I picked up lately is pretty funny.

 

The Bolded statements are what made me think he was putting in effort and looking for something legit. Putting real reasons behind why he was going after AJ is what I'm talking about. Up till this point it was mostly about the jovial thing.

 

 

 

@Des: I disagree with your statement of calling potential gambit being a scumtell. Nothing wrong if a townie wants to mention that as an FYI and a statement on how they are viewing the situation.

Ugh, lulz phase was too quick! I'm scumhunting already?! What is this nonsense?!?!

 

It's not really that reliable of a scumtell since townies can very easily be paranoid of a gambit when there's a big back and forth between two players, but I do think it's a scumtell. I've seen scum employ it before when one of their own was "outed" by a strong town leader before as a way to try and get a mislynch on the townie the next day, and saying it seems like a gambit allows them to distance from their teammate as well as link them to a townie.

 

Even worse, in the case that I'm wrong about AJ and this is town on town violence, scum can sit back and call it a gambit, thereby not taking a true side on the whole affair and letting it dominate discussion for a lot longer. And it can make it look like they didn't "know" either player was town, cause they "thought" it was a gambit. See what I mean?

 

Thing is I think calling something a gambit between two players before either's alignment is known or before the situation has even fully played out is somewhat premature. Say we lynch AJ and he turns out to be scum. Does that mean I should be lynched next? A number of people on thread apparently seem to think so. I find this to be a way of setting up a lynch on me in the future if I'm right, and likely suspicion on me anyways if I'm wrong. Puts me in a no-win situation, all because I boldly called out something I saw on someone and he OMGUS'd.

 

 

@Des: I disagree with your statement of calling potential gambit being a scumtell. Nothing wrong if a townie wants to mention that as an FYI and a statement on how they are viewing the situation.

Ugh, lulz phase was too quick! I'm scumhunting already?! What is this nonsense?!?!

The bold is part of what makes me think they are pulling a gambit.

 

uh, what? Just before this you said you thought it was a gambit cause- oh hell I'll just quote it:

 

For me it's that and suddenly, after they go back and forth a bit, AJ has list of potential suspects, supposedly based off meta. The problem I have with that is Leelou is on the list after Des mentions her, and for weak reasons

 

So Salami says why he thinks it's a gambit, you state something different to help support that it's a gambit, then change your story to saying you think it's a gambit because I said calling a back and forth between two players a gambit early on is a scumtell? That literally makes zero sense, and you changing your story is a gigantic ping for me.

 

For vebal's sanity and cause it seemed fitting!

 

I have to say that my first thoughts where scum tells on aj but a few times i got a gambit feeling. I'd have to say im leaning more town on despo if anyone. Even though the starting case seemed pretty hollow aj didnt hold up well with pressure. But the more it went the akwarder the casing looked for both sides. im not going to dismiss a gambit for that reason but im not totally convince of it yet. That would just be way to optimistic for a realist like me. 

 

Also i didnt care for AJ's use of meta's like that! go ahead and tell scum exactly how not to behave this game. Wasn't found of that.

 

Yay someone else mentioning that AJ and I's interaction could be a gambit 

 

 

Vote Des
Why vote Des? To get a train started there with a second vote instead of putting AJ at 4 votes. I can switch my vote to AJ if need be.

So do you think AJ and Des are scum? Because right now you are following AJ onto Des and threw in some I can switch distancing in there.

 

This^

 

Good post from Leelou imo. Makes me feel a bit better about her.

 

Alright, back again and sober today.

 

Des, I stand by what I said. Perhaps my point wasn't made very well last night cause I was rambling a bit, so I'll try to clarify. Basically your case boils down to you saying that I come across as 'jovial' to you and this is an indicator that I received a scum PM and am excited about it. The issue I have with this is simple: You are only applying it in one direction. Why couldn't someone be excited because they got a town PM? I have a hard time believing that you didn't come to this conclusion on your own. If anything that reason should be considered null. So, like I said... I will crush you if this is what you are going to bring against me   Really the only thing that you have mentioned against me that could be substantial was my saying killed vs lynched, but I think the point was clear. Eliminate, remove, knock out, etc they all mean the same thing. Fortunately you are exhibiting some of that narcissist Des behavior where you tunnel players and essentially call everything they say scummy, so townie points for that. It's annoying as hell, but it makes me think you could be town.

 

unvote

 

@Salami - Could you elaborate what you think is scummy in my post 58? I've seen you bring it up a few times now and frankly I'm unable to follow your thought process. Also, to answer your question in general I wouldn't say I would automatically be suspicious of everyone that attacks me. That's just part of the game. Their reasoning is a big thing for me, so Des was included on that list for his original vote reasoning. I also aren't following with what you were saying about my 'would like to think' you're town thing. You can disregard my meta read but I find it generally useful early in the game. A lurky CS is usually a scum CS, so in this instance you actually posting would make me lean the other direction based on that alone. I'd like you to explain more of your thought process though, plz.

 

I liked Amega's post. I'm sort of surprised the first thing people thought of was some sort of gambit. I dislike Kaylee's 'could go either way thing', I'm also unable to see where she got the idea of a distancing gambit based on that bolded quote she posted.

 

vote Kaylee

 

Alright so first of all: Holy Backtrack Batman! You start getting some votes cause people see you as the obviously scummier one between us, so you suddenly think I "could be" town now. Biiiig surprise.

 

 

As for the rest-

 

Bold: Cause you're much more likely to see a town PM than a scum one, just due to the laws of probability. If you see something a lot more often, you're not going to be as surprised to see it. Plus you could have gotten roled onto a scum team with people you really like, I know that gets me excited when I see the same.

 

Italics: Oh come on bro. It's day 1. Suuuuch a scummy tactic to go "All you really got on me is _____". Anyways, no- I don't think the point was clear. You were threatening to kill me and crush me, and several times implied that you could have me killed even if you were already dead. To me, that's as good as claiming scum. And yet you don't even really address this point when others bring it up.

 

Underlined: Why do you like Amega's post then? He brought up the gambit thing too... and btw nice distancing attempt with Kaylee.

 

She was making something out of nothing hallia, i think we're all agreed thats how she scumhunts to look for reactions. and while im not deciding if their was a gambit at play you seem quick to push off the reactions aj has made due to Despo's play. Nothing at all seemed scummy in his post or even together? Did you feel as if a gambit was possible? your read seems rather vague. 

 

 @ bolded.

 

So you wanna be included in the group that "knows Despot so well" in regards to the way I scumhunt, yet you don't know my gender. Really?

 

The bolded and the case against me furthered my feeling that he actually might be town. He's making logical point and while keeping his vote on his prime suspect he points out things that stand out to him. (Scumhunting basically).

 

Still catching up but apparently AJ bleeds burnt orange so he's obviously not scum.

Unvote

This unvote without further explanation makes me wonder if I was right about him being scum. After spending time making sense and scumhunting, he backs off him top suspect because?... Doesn't feel like a town move to me.

 

 

Ok, now to go look at AJ's posts to clarify for him and others that asked, while I have a chance at the computer.

Firstly do you think Des is town or are you unsure about him or is he scum? You state in different places that you think, he town, then you're unsure and finally he could be scum.

 

There was the orginal back and forth with Despo. Then these quotes are what make me think your not town...

 

If they were legit scumtells I don't think you'd have an issue pointing them out directly. Also your point is bad because you haven't actually pointed out any specific about me. You can continue throwing blanket statements around but you haven't actually said anything whatsoever. I'm attempting to give you some leeway here. What exactly do you think is scummy? If it's my jokey tone than I think you should hush and sit back a bit until everyone checks in. Like I said, your analysis is faulty or you are scum. That's the bottom line.

You are digging your own grave btw. I'm not trying to scare you off my lynch but you are you wastig your time. Call it conf-bias but I know I am town and therefore suspicious of those who attack me considering I don't feel your vote is warranted.

In other words, come at me bro. You will die regardless of your alignment so choose wisely.

Bold: Seems over-defensive to me. "I'm not trying to scare you off my lynch but..." "I know I am town..." Just seems like you state your town/not scum more than once in the same paragraph. 

 

Blue: A threat. If your town and feel you've communicated that, then why threaten...it's not even just the threat it's the "choose wisely" that really sticks out to me.

 

 

FTR, I am not attempting to lead. But I am town. You can try to come at me but in the end I will crush you.

Your choice.

Bold: again I tell you I'm town.

Blue: Yet another threat.

 

I'll withhold judgement until you have legitimate time to present your case. Until then though my vote stays on you. Make sure your points are clear as to your POV or else I will consider them fake. If you have legitimate questions for me thus far ( which I doibt you have) I will answer them. If not the only real reason I can formulate is that  you are scum and in that case I will devote my time in ensuring you are killed.

Get @ me bro.

Bold: The wording of the first part "devote my time in ensuring you are killed" really stands out. It's also another threat.

 

 

Alright, back again and sober today.

 

Des, I stand by what I said. Perhaps my point wasn't made very well last night cause I was rambling a bit, so I'll try to clarify. Basically your case boils down to you saying that I come across as 'jovial' to you and this is an indicator that I received a scum PM and am excited about it. The issue I have with this is simple: You are only applying it in one direction. Why couldn't someone be excited because they got a town PM? I have a hard time believing that you didn't come to this conclusion on your own. If anything that reason should be considered null. So, like I said... I will crush you if this is what you are going to bring against me   Really the only thing that you have mentioned against me that could be substantial was my saying killed vs lynched, but I think the point was clear. Eliminate, remove, knock out, etc they all mean the same thing. Fortunately you are exhibiting some of that narcissist Des behavior where you tunnel players and essentially call everything they say scummy, so townie points for that. It's annoying as hell, but it makes me think you could be town.

 

unvote

 

@Salami - Could you elaborate what you think is scummy in my post 58? I've seen you bring it up a few times now and frankly I'm unable to follow your thought process. Also, to answer your question in general I wouldn't say I would automatically be suspicious of everyone that attacks me. That's just part of the game. Their reasoning is a big thing for me, so Des was included on that list for his original vote reasoning. I also aren't following with what you were saying about my 'would like to think' you're town thing. You can disregard my meta read but I find it generally useful early in the game. A lurky CS is usually a scum CS, so in this instance you actually posting would make me lean the other direction based on that alone. I'd like you to explain more of your thought process though, plz.

 

I liked Amega's post. I'm sort of surprised the first thing people thought of was some sort of gambit. I dislike Kaylee's 'could go either way thing', I'm also unable to see where she got the idea of a distancing gambit based on that bolded quote she posted.

 

vote Kaylee

Bold: that was the beginning of his case, the rest had to do with the threats and something else you pointed out to me, but I didn't grab that quote. 

 

Blue: Suddenly Des going after you is him being on his town meta and that makes him town to you. (Changing your mind after going so hard based on meta). Just feels like stretching for a reason to now find him town.

 

 

Those are the reasons AJ. Clear enough now?

The AJ part seems valid. AJ aroused my suspicions for the same reasons-he over the top threats. But since he's claimed cop would you be ready to afford a mislynch if he's a town PR?

 

AJ: it wasn't just your threats, it was also overstating how your town. Stood out to me.

Now that I'm back from date night I'll place my vote.

Vote Des

I was undecided on him, but his back off of AJ with basically no reason doesn't seem town behavior to me. He's been asked about it and posted since yet not addressed it.

You posted a whole lot of stuff about him seeming to be town. In the end, you pick a rather lackluster reason and vote him. 

 

Analysis in the end-scummy